- Thread starter SilentStalkr
- Start date
I spoke with a friend who is the head of new product development. While u r correct, technically, and that info can only be found in the spec sheet, the intent is that you get the size based in your chest size. The assumption being that a 6’4 guy isn’t gonna get a medium. He’s going to get an XL because it covers his chest and organs. So the truth is, it’s half a dozen in one or 6 in the other.
I’m just here to muddy the waters. 
Another thread recommended the Point Blank Paraclete plates linked below. They’re fairly comparable to the L210’s but you get multi-curve, and they’re less than half the price of U210’s (looks like you do give up M855A1 protection though).
L210’s - .59” thick, 5.5lb/ea, single curve, $185/ea
Paraclete - .55” thick, 4.8lb/ea, multi-curve, $342.14/ea
U210’s - .56” thick, 3.9lb/ea, multi-curve, $700/ea
www.officerstore.com
I bought some closeout (LAPG had them at $75/ea) Paraclete Lvl III ICW plates a few years back for search warrant services, and have been very happy with them. I’m already mandated to wear my soft armor when I’m on the clock, so it made sense to save myself some cash (and weight) and go with ICW plates. Now I’m looking for a standalone set to keep in my truck, and thinking these Paracletes are my choice.
Another thread recommended the Point Blank Paraclete plates linked below. They’re fairly comparable to the L210’s but you get multi-curve, and they’re less than half the price of U210’s (looks like you do give up M855A1 protection though).
L210’s - .59” thick, 5.5lb/ea, single curve, $185/ea
Paraclete - .55” thick, 4.8lb/ea, multi-curve, $342.14/ea
U210’s - .56” thick, 3.9lb/ea, multi-curve, $700/ea
Point Blank Paraclete Speed Plate Plus, 10in. * 12in., Shooter Cut, NIJ Compliant
DetailsPoint Blank’s Speed Plate Plus takes armor protection to the next level by defending you well against a wide range of high energy bullets.The Paraclete Speed Plate Plus is a multi-hit protective insert that consistently delivers exceptional ballistic performance against a wide range of...
www.officerstore.com I bought some closeout (LAPG had them at $75/ea) Paraclete Lvl III ICW plates a few years back for search warrant services, and have been very happy with them. I’m already mandated to wear my soft armor when I’m on the clock, so it made sense to save myself some cash (and weight) and go with ICW plates. Now I’m looking for a standalone set to keep in my truck, and thinking these Paracletes are my choice.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
Stop running steel plates.
I have the 4401s. When I compare my minimal carrier (First Spear SST) to my son-in-Laws mayflower w/medium esapi plates , his kit is likely 6# lighter and he has a shit load of pouches, etc. His plates are about 4.3# and the 4401s are 7.3. Doesn’t sound like much but that’s more than a full mag shingle and a small radio. Over time, weight hurts so if you’re going to spend any time in this thing buy the lightest high level plates you can afford.
My next carrier will be more like his. A “full service” carrier with some more padding, likely for a large sapi. I will say that I am finding that with my chest size I like the shooter cut plates up top. When I press the pistol forward my chest pushed the plate and I “pinch” it. A wider plate seems like it would be too inhibiting, but that’s speculation on my part as I haven’t had an opportunity to shoot in a large or XL sapi.
My next carrier will be more like his. A “full service” carrier with some more padding, likely for a large sapi. I will say that I am finding that with my chest size I like the shooter cut plates up top. When I press the pistol forward my chest pushed the plate and I “pinch” it. A wider plate seems like it would be too inhibiting, but that’s speculation on my part as I haven’t had an opportunity to shoot in a large or XL sapi.
Last edited:
Yep. That’s why I was curious as to why one of the guys was recommending the 4401’s over the other. It’s 4 pounds difference! That’s quite a bit, all for some .30 ball protection. I mean it could happen but not as likely as the others, imo. Regardless, you don’t want to get hit by any of them. For most of them you might survive the shot, but the trauma is a different story.
Hesco 3810s here with Crye AVS. 3810 will stop almost 99% of shit you might face in a post apocalyptic scenario.
I hate to break it to you, but any of those rounds is going to check yo shit on 4401’s Also. In fact, you may rather it pass on through than deal with the trauma you likely to get regardless of what plate you running. Haha.
I was wondering why everyone would walk away from me when I put on the steel plates, I thought I had BO or something.
I hope that you are right because I went the 3810 route...
I don’t need to try again. The goal is to not get hit. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Hesco 4400’s if that’s what your are looking for and don’t care about the extra weight. Everything has tradeoffs. They are 4lbs heavier than the L210’s. If you need the extra protection and don’t care about the weight and the addition of more weight with a backer and so forth then they are a hell of a deal. Hell for the price it’s worth having an extra set laying around. Most of these plates will do what they are advertised to do to some degree or another. So,if you are just trying to get in the game you can’t really go wrong with either one. I’d say buy both but then you just should have got some 3810’s. Regardless, I don’t want to be hit by anything with any of them.
I’d say at this point, I’d get whatever you can find. If you can get your hands on a set of L210’s right now vs waiting for some 4400’s or something else then I would. Better to have something rather than nothing at all, I say!
Gonna need to step up to the 4800 at about $1250/plate for all the protection. We can go down this road all day long. From what I've read from people who seem to know and actually use and wear plates advise maneuverability > protection. Give a little to gain a lot.
I have both 4401s and 3810s. I'm rolling w/ the 3810s. It's night and day.
I have both 4401s and 3810s. I'm rolling w/ the 3810s. It's night and day.
The avg joe blow who would actually engage in a gun fight with you is not walking around with m855a1. 99% are using regular m855 m193 of any other fmj. 3810s are rated a to stop that. Add a trauma pad and you get some added protection behind the plate.
Its great you love level 4, but 99% of joe blows are shooting what level 4 is meant for. You can get away with using level 3+.
All awesome info and I can't begin to thank you guys enough! I have a budget of $400 or less and I've watched some videos and read a lot of great info here, so I'd rather have less weight because if you get smoked you'll be standing there trying to catch your breath and thus get shot. L210 is the way I'm going to go for my first set or armor.
Yes sir. Being light and nimble with most of the protection is where it’s at imo. But to each their own.
Public Service Announcement:
Kota Outfitters has Hesco L210’s for $300+shipping after Promo Code ‘GMLOGMD’ (comes out to $323 for shipping for me). Best price I’ve ever seen.
Kota Outfitters has Hesco L210’s for $300+shipping after Promo Code ‘GMLOGMD’ (comes out to $323 for shipping for me). Best price I’ve ever seen.
Jesus fucking christ. I hope this helps.
You use the biggest plates you can get away with. I can wear Medium, Large fits best but I can also wear XL. Most ~6'ers that aren't fat asses or bean poles can do this, they'll fit a wide range usually. I had XL plates laying around and they give best protection so I used those. It's not rocket science.
SAPI cut plates come in a range of sizes, so does the JPC. JPC comes in maritime model, this one uses swimmer cut plates, it's the only one that does. Match the plates to the JPC.
Bulletproofme.com has NIJ rated Lvl4 plates in SAPI and swimmer cuts for a good price (these have been shot the fuck up on youtube and went WELL beyond the rating). Get the appropriate plates, don't forget the side protection. Just like AR receivers, these plates are made by a few mfg.'s, then wrapped and sold by dealers as theirs. The biggest real difference in price is WEIGHT (or maybe name) --because a rated Lvl4 should perform as a Lvl4, regardless of price. LTC is one of the mfg.'s Bulletproofme.com uses, they made my plates and they also make 'em for the military.
Buy (M,L,XL) JPC 2.0, apron, cummerbund, side pockets (select maritime model if swimmer cut plates, otherwise use SAPI cut).
Buy Lvl4 SAPI cut (M,L,XL) size plates to match the carrier (select swimmer cut plates if JPC is maritime, otherwise SAPI cut).
Buy Lvl4 6x6 plates for side protection.
Follow instructions.
Look OAF.
This will also by far be the best bang for buck setup you can get, a JPC with Lvl4 plates. Quality functional shit, not super expensive (because armor does get super expensive). You'll still be in for about $1k all said and done, for something that'll likely sit in the closet forever.
You can get used IOTV's but beware the panels haven't been machine washed. Same for other high end armor kits. And Dyneema or kevlar, you don't want gimmicky ballistic weaves. Be sure any plates aren't cracked or broken, this isn't always obvious and xraying plates can sometimes cost as much as replacing them unless they're really expensive, lightweight plates.
You use the biggest plates you can get away with. I can wear Medium, Large fits best but I can also wear XL. Most ~6'ers that aren't fat asses or bean poles can do this, they'll fit a wide range usually. I had XL plates laying around and they give best protection so I used those. It's not rocket science.
SAPI cut plates come in a range of sizes, so does the JPC. JPC comes in maritime model, this one uses swimmer cut plates, it's the only one that does. Match the plates to the JPC.
Bulletproofme.com has NIJ rated Lvl4 plates in SAPI and swimmer cuts for a good price (these have been shot the fuck up on youtube and went WELL beyond the rating). Get the appropriate plates, don't forget the side protection. Just like AR receivers, these plates are made by a few mfg.'s, then wrapped and sold by dealers as theirs. The biggest real difference in price is WEIGHT (or maybe name) --because a rated Lvl4 should perform as a Lvl4, regardless of price. LTC is one of the mfg.'s Bulletproofme.com uses, they made my plates and they also make 'em for the military.
Buy (M,L,XL) JPC 2.0, apron, cummerbund, side pockets (select maritime model if swimmer cut plates, otherwise use SAPI cut).
Buy Lvl4 SAPI cut (M,L,XL) size plates to match the carrier (select swimmer cut plates if JPC is maritime, otherwise SAPI cut).
Buy Lvl4 6x6 plates for side protection.
Follow instructions.
Look OAF.
This will also by far be the best bang for buck setup you can get, a JPC with Lvl4 plates. Quality functional shit, not super expensive (because armor does get super expensive). You'll still be in for about $1k all said and done, for something that'll likely sit in the closet forever.
You can get used IOTV's but beware the panels haven't been machine washed. Same for other high end armor kits. And Dyneema or kevlar, you don't want gimmicky ballistic weaves. Be sure any plates aren't cracked or broken, this isn't always obvious and xraying plates can sometimes cost as much as replacing them unless they're really expensive, lightweight plates.
Nice! This is what 4 pages was trying to say, all wrapped up in a concise statement. Bravo sir!
Buddy of mine bought plates from "Semper fi armor" for $60 bucks a piece. Says they're lvl III but I don't know, seems cheap to me.
Wow I just typed out a massive guide and the site ate it.
U210's are the best plate out there IMO for combination of likely threats, size, weight and they can be had in SAPI sizes like L and XL.
Stryker laid out alot of really great points. However I want soft armor coverage (BACLS/Mayflower/MBAV) and armored cummerbund.
You will most likely not have a combat medic or paramedic with you. May not even be able to get to advanced care. Plan accordingly.
U210's are the best plate out there IMO for combination of likely threats, size, weight and they can be had in SAPI sizes like L and XL.
Stryker laid out alot of really great points. However I want soft armor coverage (BACLS/Mayflower/MBAV) and armored cummerbund.
You will most likely not have a combat medic or paramedic with you. May not even be able to get to advanced care. Plan accordingly.
For the most part, the generalized difference between 4 standalones and 3+ is you are trading out some AP protections versus weight reduction. You could get your cake and eat it too with Hesco 4800s as they are a lvl4 that weight about what most 3+ weigh, but they're also something like 1200$ a plate.
Your main threats short of being up against weird oddball calibers or the guy with the fucking 50 hanging around are M193, M855, M855A1, 7.62x39 (think Golden Tiger), 7.62x51 (non AP) and surplus 30.06, 7.62x54R and 8mm.
The most realistic threats to focus on are all of the flavors of 5.56 and import non AP 7.62x39. Most regular guys will be shooting whatever shit they had at Walmart. The reason the shooting to death ratio in Chicago is so low is because most of the shootings are done with handguns as well as using Winchester White Box 9mm or whatever. Other food for thought is - what are your local police issued/allowed to use in their carbines and what ammo did all of the new gun owners who don't know shit about anything go out and buy?
I have 2 carriers for 2 different purposes; mounted/dismounted.
Dismount I use a Crye SPC with a swimmer cut 3+ in it that weighs 4.2lbs a plate that I barely notice. Mounted I use a Velocity Systems SCARAB with Ceradyne lvl 4s in it that are 6.9lbs a piece (I think). Why? because dismounted I want to drag as little weight as possible while stopping what I'm likely to be up against. Mounted you are generally trapped in a vehicle if ambushed/attacked and they usually don't shoot at vehicles with low caliber weapons (usually), so the added weight makes sense as I'm not planning on being outside of the vehicle long enough to where the extra weight matters, or if I am, its not the end of the world.
For armor sizing, your plate size is your carrier size. Your carrier size is whatever dimension your chest circumference and torso height are on the sizing chart. It's that simple.
Your main threats short of being up against weird oddball calibers or the guy with the fucking 50 hanging around are M193, M855, M855A1, 7.62x39 (think Golden Tiger), 7.62x51 (non AP) and surplus 30.06, 7.62x54R and 8mm.
The most realistic threats to focus on are all of the flavors of 5.56 and import non AP 7.62x39. Most regular guys will be shooting whatever shit they had at Walmart. The reason the shooting to death ratio in Chicago is so low is because most of the shootings are done with handguns as well as using Winchester White Box 9mm or whatever. Other food for thought is - what are your local police issued/allowed to use in their carbines and what ammo did all of the new gun owners who don't know shit about anything go out and buy?
I have 2 carriers for 2 different purposes; mounted/dismounted.
Dismount I use a Crye SPC with a swimmer cut 3+ in it that weighs 4.2lbs a plate that I barely notice. Mounted I use a Velocity Systems SCARAB with Ceradyne lvl 4s in it that are 6.9lbs a piece (I think). Why? because dismounted I want to drag as little weight as possible while stopping what I'm likely to be up against. Mounted you are generally trapped in a vehicle if ambushed/attacked and they usually don't shoot at vehicles with low caliber weapons (usually), so the added weight makes sense as I'm not planning on being outside of the vehicle long enough to where the extra weight matters, or if I am, its not the end of the world.
For armor sizing, your plate size is your carrier size. Your carrier size is whatever dimension your chest circumference and torso height are on the sizing chart. It's that simple.
Last edited:
I’m a bit leary getting a non SAPI plate since there doesn’t seem to be a standard for sizing (I’m assuming there is no SAPI swimmer cut.. maybe I’m wrong?). What (brand?) swimmer cut did you get to fit in your SPC? Does the extra give in the SPC allow for non SAPI like the literature suggest?
Thanks!....so I guess I need to keep looking because I only see 10x12 plates in “swimmers cut”...which you could stuff in a medium SPC I guess, but I’m a large so they might flop around a bit which is no bueno. I guess I’m being obtuse here and this is not a new argument so I’ll just keep looking.
Though far from an expert, from the carrier and platesI have access to a 10x12 shooter cut, 10x12 swimmer cut and medium SAPI all basically fit the carrier the same. The plate pouch is square-ish so the plate just slides in and Velcro’s up. The difference between a shooter and swimmer cut vs a sapi is angled around the edges. They are still 10” wide and 12” tall.
It’s an expensive purchase so I get doing as much research as possible, but once you have the shit in hand you’ll realize there is no voodoo to sizing it. Use the Ferro chart, order your plates to your size. Buy a carrier made for that size plate with the gizmo shit you want or don’t want and get on with destroying your lower back and knees.
It’s an expensive purchase so I get doing as much research as possible, but once you have the shit in hand you’ll realize there is no voodoo to sizing it. Use the Ferro chart, order your plates to your size. Buy a carrier made for that size plate with the gizmo shit you want or don’t want and get on with destroying your lower back and knees.
Has anyone tried this or have any opinions?
tacticalscorpiongear.com
Tactical Scorpion Gear - Level III+ PE Polyethylene Body Armor 10x12 Plate
Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III+ PE / Polyethylene (UHMWPE) body armor plates. Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III PE Polyethylene Body Armor Plate made by our own craftsmen.
tacticalscorpiongear.com That's why I've said twi
I said it twice in this thread. They are good plates, and by far the best value out there. They are light weight, but they do really well. It's crazy to pay double that for plates that are not better. I've had em for a while and just ordered another set a few weeks ago. The are like 45 days out now, but worth it. Excellent plates and again, for the money, you won't find a lighter plate that actually stops what you need to stop. There's plenty of YouTube vids testing them out and they do very well. If you've ever worn a PC all day, you know that the weight is important, and so is the ability to move in your gear and get low.Has anyone tried this or have any opinions?
Tactical Scorpion Gear - Level III+ PE Polyethylene Body Armor 10x12 Plate
Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III+ PE / Polyethylene (UHMWPE) body armor plates. Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III PE Polyethylene Body Armor Plate made by our own craftsmen.
Sorry, I didn’t see the earlier posts.
Went to a Guardian match and a dude said he was real happy with his.
Good to know these are a viable setup.
Has anyone tried this or have any opinions?
Tactical Scorpion Gear - Level III+ PE Polyethylene Body Armor 10x12 Plate
Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III+ PE / Polyethylene (UHMWPE) body armor plates. Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III PE Polyethylene Body Armor Plate made by our own craftsmen.
My training partner has the lvl 3+ 'extreme' in a swimmer cut. He loves them and they are curved/cut very well as well as fit inside a SPC and JPC perfectly.
Maybe it's already been discussed, but I noticed the life expectancy of this armor and it is 5 years.............not a lot imho, but for the price who could pass it up.Has anyone tried this or have any opinions?
Tactical Scorpion Gear - Level III+ PE Polyethylene Body Armor 10x12 Plate
Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III+ PE / Polyethylene (UHMWPE) body armor plates. Tactical Scorpion Gear Level III PE Polyethylene Body Armor Plate made by our own craftsmen.
Can someone comment on the life expaectancy issue and what factors enter into the equation?
Look at any plate out there. They all have expiration dates on them.
The main reason is liability. If you dont drop them constantly or beat the shit out of them in the trunk of your car and leave them in 140 degrees all the time, any quality plate will be fine.
What about 7.62 NATO M80A1?
Short of fighting the .mil, its not common at all. Does it exist? Sure. Is it likely? Not really.
If you had to get dressed to be able to take whatever round COULD be out there, you'd have to stay at home in the basement.
Nobody ever said it was impossible, but likely to be a lot less common than your normal threats. Just saying. Everything it’s a trade off. If you feel you need that kind kind of protection then get it, by all means. You either going to pay for it or be weighed down or both. The idea is to not get hit regardless as I don’t want to be hit with any of that mess with or without plates!Every time someone says “my special threat plates are fine, there are no AP threats”, a Boomer loads another Garand clip with M2 AP.
Accessories - M2 AP on garand clips
I have some garand M2 AP ammo up for sale. 11 clips of -LC 53, 6 lose LC 53 (94 rds) and 4 clips of TW 53- (32rds) (126 total). I also have 15 loose rounds of LC 43 ball i am including. Ammo will come in USGI bandoliers with cardboard covers in garand clips (except the loose LC 43 ball). I will...www.snipershide.com
Something to keep in mind.
There may not be a trauma center, or one you can go to. You may not have the option of advanced care.
At the same time you can't wear 100 lbs of armor. So its a tradeoff and how much risk you want to accept in exchange for mobility.
Plan accordingly.
There is also a YUUUGE difference between a level 1 and a level 3.
Plus who is the hostile you think you most likely will take fire from, where is the definitive level of care located and who controls that area?
This thread is crap. So much crap that I just bought (or ordered with a long lead) a Crye JPC 2.0 (L).
Kidding aside. Glad I read through this. I have a couple rigs, but are steel plates and ordered the carriers from ar500armor. Time to invest in a decent setup, starting with a good carrier and fit out right. Thanks for everyone posting info. Next I'll grab some good plates for it.
Kidding aside. Glad I read through this. I have a couple rigs, but are steel plates and ordered the carriers from ar500armor. Time to invest in a decent setup, starting with a good carrier and fit out right. Thanks for everyone posting info. Next I'll grab some good plates for it.
This thread is crap. So much crap that I just bought (or ordered with a long lead) a Crye JPC 2.0 (L).
Kidding aside. Glad I read through this. I have a couple rigs, but are steel plates and ordered the carriers from ar500armor. Time to invest in a decent setup, starting with a good carrier and fit out right. Thanks for everyone posting info. Next I'll grab some good plates for it.
You can find Crye stuff elsewhere. Usually for a little bit more but you get it in a few days. I ordered the zip on pack off eBay and had in three days. About $30 more than direct from Crye who said their shipping lead time was like 14 days for in stock items. I just searched eBay for Crye today and I saw some plate carriers new in large. Can't remember which colors but they were available. If you're in a rush.
Thanks for the heads up. I am not in a rush as I still need to figure out which plates I'm going to use. I will keep an eye on the other add ons though. I want the zip on backpack, but wasn't an immediate need so just got the carrier and molle front flap yesterday.
Call Crye. Their site shows stuff being out, but when I called January 2nd, I was able to get exactly what I wanted in 5 business days.
Also incase anyone is wondering:
AVS plate set
M4 mag pouch
3 band cumberbund
bag that latched and zips on the to plate set.
All in range green
The point of BA is to not have an immediate kill impact on your vitals. While yes you can die from an abdominal wound, in most cases that won't kill you instantly. The point of BA is to be able to stay in the fight long enough to win the fight or get to safety where you can get medical attention if you need it.
The abdomen is difficult to cover without really limiting mobility, but there are soft armor panels that cover the abdomen and the pelvis (Crye has them, among others like Tyr I believe).
The reality though is that unless something tags your abdominal aorta or your kidneys, the abdomen isn't an immediate risk place to get shot if you have access to good medical care. If you don't have access to good medical care you're probably going to die of septic shock due to the contamination induced by opening the organs in that space.
check out trexarms. they are selling a boatload of hesco 3810's. that's protection from most threats, good weight, available, good prices.
I duct tape phonebooks around my torso.
Your arguments are invalid.
Your arguments are invalid.
Similar threads
