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AA Targets, Truing Bar Target

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    • Apr 12, 2001
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    www.snipershide.com
    So after seeing the set up being used at Hatcreek Ranch, where they had one target in front of the other I decided to have Austin Angus of AA Targets build me a complete solution.

    32877107_1793546124002236_4336391667159400448_n.jpg


    My original thought was to put a MagnetoSpeed T1000 on it, which I did to see how it reacts. Unfortunately, in this first try target, a hit on either the bar or the plate set it off. My goal is to only have it set off by the Bar and not the Plate.

    So I have a solution and a fix and will be relaying that to Austin this weekend.

    Still, this is an awesome target, at 800 yards (where it stands) the Bar is .2 Mil wide or 5.75" tall. That gives you a defined aiming point and using the dope from the bar you can easily use it to TRUE your software.

    We start a class tomorrow and I plan on shooting them on it before we dope their rifles to see how it works with their Colorado TRY DOPE before we confirm drops at distance. In other words, for class, we would Chronograph the students, then immediately go to this target. After which we can adjust software and confirm the rest of the drops for precise adjustments.

    My plan is to add 2 more of these to our range, one at 1250 yards, and possibly one at 1000 yards.

    32896084_1793681097322072_7082190914059239424_o.jpg


     
    • Like
    Reactions: Baron23, MADAZZAHATTER, deersniper and 10 others
    I keep thinking about this truing bar. What if you make a hit, however, the variable responsible for that hit changes during the follow-up shot, meaning you hit low or high. How do you determine when you are truly "true?"
     
    Papagallos said:
    I keep thinking about this truing bar. What if you make a hit, however, the variable responsible for that hit changes during the follow-up shot, meaning you hit low or high. How do you determine when you are truly "true?"
    Click to expand...


    I would say if you’re working the MOA you are comfy with run for it.

    Lots of operator error can cause misses at 800+
     
    Papagallos said:
    I keep thinking about this truing bar. What if you make a hit, however, the variable responsible for that hit changes during the follow-up shot, meaning you hit low or high. How do you determine when you are truly "true?"
    Click to expand...

    You hit the bar three times in a row.

    You are the variable, whether you use a truing bar or a piece of paper, the variable is still the same.
    This system eliminates me shooting a three shot group then packing up, driving downrange, determining a correction, driving back and shooting again.

    Old instructor always said dope on paper is your hard dope, Dope on steel without going down and measuring the group on the plate sucks. The plate is forgiving.

    This is trying to get dope on steel closer to groups on paper.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: tehmonker, Papagallos and The Dakota Sniper
    Not to mention if a whole class of people is shooting it a normal target would get pretty splattered up, this will allow you to see just the bar wiggle instead of the whole plate. Or so one would hope...
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Sogan and MarinePMI
    Guys,

    I get it, you think this is about ONE PERSON shooting, I teach classes, classes have a lot of students, classes mean a lot of shots on target, what happens when the target is shot up and you can't properly resolve the Hits anymore because they are all clustered together?

    This is not about 1 or 2 guys shooting, it's about managing a class or group of shooters. As well with a Flasher on the target, it is visually easier

    We had a rain all weekend, how well does the "Paint" stick to the target when we are shooting out in the Rain?

    I love the "I DON'T GET IT" people who say, "why don't you do what I do ... LOL fools,

    The guy two posts above gets it ... he sees the benefit, unlike the close-minded people who think shortcuts are the always the answer. Sure we use watermarks, still, but trust me they get shot up.

    Add a FLASHER TARGET to the TRUING Bar, and bingo !
     
    • Like
    • Haha
    Reactions: Milf Dots, Paqueo, deersniper and 5 others
    Austin Angus came out to the range we spoke about modifying it a bit.

    And more and more over the weekend shooting, I realized that inside 500 I want "BAR" targets and not circles or 45% IPSCs like we use now. I do like the Diamonds, but to help gets "TRUE" their software, we need targets with a lot less vertical spread.

    Most targets on your average range are easily 2 MOA tall, in some cases more than 4 MOA in height. So what happens is, you get some odd variations in our data. So if I use .2 MIL Bars instead of Circles or Squares, we can start to manage and limit the elevation and being wider, we can absorb new shooters windage errors. Dialing elevation it's not as big a problem, but windage can be.

    Odds are the next version of this will be a Standalone Bar vs the combined unit as posted above. Because my Range does not have a lot of Berms on it, we are a field range, I like the IPSC Backers to help spot misses. With the MagnetoSpeed T1000 Flashers, this will be easy to see and resolve.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: The Dakota Sniper
    This is a great idea for running classes and truing students dope in an effective and expedient manner! Loving it! Gunna use it! Gunna love using it!
     
    I still think it’s a great idea individual/Group. Can save some massive time by painting/cruising down range.

    How did you guys construct it to prevent sag,

    Does the ip target still have a small “swing” .

    Most of ours are canted forward that allow about 2-2.5 inches of “swing”
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Wabtklr
    Honestly the channel over the T post help a lot with the sagging, but the back of the two targets work together to hold each other. It's definitely over engineered and we have simplified the idea to a separate bar along with the IPSC so the flashers will work correctly. They have to be separate for the flashes to work and even though they are just mounted on the same T Posts, the flashers react regardless. So we devised a plan fix that.

    But the bracket goes around both. One idea to use is 3 T posts, one for the ISPC then the bracket goes around both, and the Bar is held by 2 Posts

    For simplicity and sales, I believe we are gonna just make a separate bar that can be placed in front of a standard target with a bit of standoff or for ranges with Berms that don't need a target as a backstop, you can get the bar alone as most have an ISPC already.

    Inside 400 yards I am gonna move to "Bar Targets' on a single T Post with no backstop, gonna do 1 MOA bars at 400, 300, 200 yards, Most steel targets at these ranges are far too big, and small swingers like we use now get wailed hard and either fall or swing too much. This fix will give a fine aiming point in bar form. I try using Paper but that is time-consuming
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Wabtklr and Wannabustbunnies
    Makes sense, what we did with our range is bypassed the t posts and just made a all in one unit, they are a pain to dig holes and makes moving them terrible, and they are heavy...very heavy. But they are solid.

    I would think if you go the route you are heading making them individual would won pretty slick, we use a lot of angle iron to deflect hits on our posts, works great and our stands have lasted 7+ years with heavy use. We tac weld them so it really isn’t a big deal to replace for the guys who can weld.

    We even made one with “key mod” like atttachment for quick replacement but we found that it takes to long to make rather than sticking with the tac welds.

    Good job on the target looks slick.
     
    Lowlight said:
    Guys,

    I get it, you think this is about ONE PERSON shooting, I teach classes, classes have a lot of students, classes mean a lot of shots on target, what happens when the target is shot up and you can't properly resolve the Hits anymore because they are all clustered together?

    This is not about 1 or 2 guys shooting, it's about managing a class or group of shooters. As well with a Flasher on the target, it is visually easier

    We had a rain all weekend, how well does the "Paint" stick to the target when we are shooting out in the Rain?

    I love the "I DON'T GET IT" people who say, "why don't you do what I do ... LOL fools,

    The guy two posts above gets it ... he sees the benefit, unlike the close-minded people who think shortcuts are the always the answer. Sure we use watermarks, still, but trust me they get shot up.

    Add a FLASHER TARGET to the TRUING Bar, and bingo !
    Click to expand...

    Holy shit, Lowlight. You are so damn sensitive. Ligthen the hell up.

    A few members posted their thoughts about it. They made sense and educated those, which included me, that aren't too in tune with shooting aides such as this one. Great job on their part.
     
    What if the bar rotated fairly easily on a shaft that ran behind the plate so that when it was hit it would spin freely.

    Then each side of it could be painted some damn bright ass colors and you would see it flashing as it spun.

    One of the bottom leading edges would need to be weighted heavily so that it would come to rest in the same position after each hit.

    Make sense?
     
    ogonzalez13 said:
    What if the bar rotated fairly easily on a shaft that ran behind the plate so that when it was hit it would spin freely.

    Then each side of it could be painted some damn bright ass colors and you would see it flashing as it spun.

    One of the bottom leading edges would need to be weighted heavily so that it would come to rest in the same position after each hit.

    Make sense?
    Click to expand...

    NO MAMES. Que mamada es esta?
     
    Not to change the topic, but since I’ve been listening to The Everyday Sniper podcasts I can’t help but hear Frank’s voice as I’m reading his posts.

    very cool idea. I get what you’re saying and why this beats just painting a watermark on an IPSC. That’s great for a single or a couple shooters. But with this idea you could do a whole class and not have to deal with painting. I could see this coming up in a match as a new idea.
     
    lowlight said:
    Honestly the channel over the T post help a lot with the sagging, but the back of the two targets work together to hold each other. It's definitely over engineered and we have simplified the idea to a separate bar along with the IPSC so the flashers will work correctly. They have to be separate for the flashes to work and even though they are just mounted on the same T Posts, the flashers react regardless. So we devised a plan fix that.

    But the bracket goes around both. One idea to use is 3 T posts, one for the ISPC then the bracket goes around both, and the Bar is held by 2 Posts

    For simplicity and sales, I believe we are gonna just make a separate bar that can be placed in front of a standard target with a bit of standoff or for ranges with Berms that don't need a target as a backstop, you can get the bar alone as most have an ISPC already.

    Inside 400 yards I am gonna move to "Bar Targets' on a single T Post with no backstop, gonna do 1 MOA bars at 400, 300, 200 yards, Most steel targets at these ranges are far too big, and small swingers like we use now get wailed hard and either fall or swing too much. This fix will give a fine aiming point in bar form. I try using Paper but that is time-consuming
    Click to expand...
    So this thread is a bit old just wondering up to date what truing target have you came up with ?
     
    What are the truing bar dimensions generally used for 1,000 - 1,200 and 1,300 yards?
     
    smoothy8500 said:
    .2mil height...
    no_math.jpg
    Click to expand...
    I liked the post. Last week I was shooting at a range that had truing bars that lit up and were placed at 1,158 - 1,266 and 1,331 yards. The attendant thought they were approximately 3' wide by 8-10" high. Just curious if these measurements sounded about right. Never shot truing bar targets before.
     
    Paul1262 said:
    I liked the post. Last week I was shooting at a range that had truing bars that lit up and were placed at 1,158 - 1,266 and 1,331 yards. The attendant thought they were approximately 3' wide by 8-10" high. Just curious if these measurements sounded about right. Never shot truing bar targets before.
    Click to expand...
    11588.3375333"
    12669.115127079"
    13319.583123335"

    (Range in Yd) x (0.2) / 27.778 = height of target in inches.
     
    I have been looking for there Truing Bar targets for a while. I took a longe range shootign class here in the west and they had several made custom for their range.

    they are pretty simple... 1 MIl tal and about 36" wide so you could still verify yoru vertical DOPE without worring about the sind call.

    Do you know anyone that sells them?
     
    Ruger15151 said:
    I have been looking for there Truing Bar targets for a while. I took a longe range shootign class here in the west and they had several made custom for their range.

    they are pretty simple... 1 MIl tal and about 36" wide so you could still verify yoru vertical DOPE without worring about the sind call.

    Do you know anyone that sells them?
    Click to expand...
    I believe AA Targets sells truing targets.
     
    I just looked on AA's site and don't see the bar anywhere....maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?
     
    Baron23 said:
    I just looked on AA's site and don't see the bar anywhere....maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?
    Click to expand...
    In the #1 of posting of this thread, Frank indicates that he had Austin Angus of AA Targets make the ones he used.
     
    Paul1262 said:
    In the #1 of posting of this thread, Frank indicates that he had Austin Angus of AA Targets make the ones he used.
    Click to expand...

    lowlight said:
    For simplicity and sales, I believe we are gonna just make a separate bar that can be placed in front of a standard target with a bit of standoff or for ranges with Berms that don't need a target as a backstop, you can get the bar alone as most have an ISPC already.
    Click to expand...

    Well, yes....I saw that as well as the quote directly above which sort of implied that AA Targets would be selling them. Well, that and Frank's statement that many ranges are using them now.

    I simply note that they are not cataloged on their site at all that I was able to find. Perhaps its a custom order.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunsen27
    Apologies for the Necro post, but did these ever become available, are they special order from AA targets? I’m digging the truing bar on top of a T post target.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: branson1369
    I emailed Austin and received this response:

    The trueing bars are available. We are building a new website and they will be available on there. (Which is hopefully soon)


    AA Targets | Contact

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    www.aatargets.com

    If you don't want to wait for the website update just email Austin. I felt the T-post model he quoted me a price on was VERY reasonably priced.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Baron23 and branson1369
    I just emailed as well. If they're affordable, will get one.

    @lowlight

    Why 800 yards? Is it a good medium distance for BC?

    Are we better off using multiple trueing bars/paper (I recall reading 300, 600, 800, 1000)?

    Does it make a difference where to true if the longest distance for the shooter will be 1000 yards?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: bunsen27
    Does anyone know if AA Targets is still in business? I emailed them to see if they make the truing bar targets but did not get a response.
     
    • Like
    Reactions: banks74
    I'd be interested in a true-bar target as well.
     
    BeteNoire said:
    Does anyone know if AA Targets is still in business? I emailed them to see if they make the truing bar targets but did not get a response.
    Click to expand...

    DEF still in business

    he still makes em.

    ill call him and see if his email sys working. if not Ill pm you his phone number
     
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