- Thread starter RAVAGE88
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Great!
I took my repeater to small bore f class matches last year. Double Placed #3 in the season. Atlas bipod and rear bag, rifle in a cadex chassis...
Can't and won't complain
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First off, I don't have a Shilen on it. It's a 22" ACE. I've had the gun out Friday and today. The wind both days has been 15 to 25 mph. I've only been using SK Rifle Match and Standard+. I'll say that the Std + seems to group tighter than the Rifle Match. I'll try some more Std + tomorrow along with some ELEY Black Box. I CAN say this: I was with my 40X for 4 years and, for what my opinion is worth, within the 1st 15 rounds this V22-S will outshoot it hands down! I'm 71 and I had reservations with regard to the purchase of the Vudoo. Those reservations went OUT THE WINDOW the minute I sent the 1st round down. I have no idea what your skill level is but no matter WHAT it is you will NOT be disappointed! HAT'S OFF to Mike Bush and the folks at Vudoo! They sure can build a rifle! My shooting buddy is waiting for his V22-S. He ordered his with a 24" Shilen and Vlavio trigger. Mine has a Jewel. It will be interesting comparing the two (and fun, too).
As for matches, I plan on using Center-X or Midas +. The speed will have to be determined at a later date. I also have my Harrell's tuner being enlarged to fit the Vudoo.
So you order a barrel with a specific length? I didn’t realize bench rifles did that. I thought you slugged them and that’s how barrel length was determined.
Sorry, I can't speak to that. All I know is what it says on their website. Max length for a Shilen is 24" and 22" for an ACE. I had originally ordered a Shilen but when I found out about the delay in Shilen's I decided to change it to an ACE. Personally, knowing my skill set, I don't think it would make that big of a deal seeing as how maximum distance I shoot is 100 yds.
I'm sure if you contact them they would have all the answers...
Shot my V22s for the first time yesterday. Sighted it with about 7 rounds and off to the first benchrest (outdoors, two piece rest only) match this season. These are my very first targets through the rifle. Started about 40-45 degrees and stayed there til the end of the match. I had two more relays that I did not include pics as it was really windy and groups weren't as good and was trying different ammos.asni didn't want to waste my Midas. 10 shots each target. X ring is 1"
It should only get better just as it did.after 300-400 out of my repeater.
Scope may look a little high. Ordered high Burris Signatures that didn't clear. One.week.from the match I wanted to play it safe and ordered vortex extra high. My change those out tho.
It should only get better just as it did.after 300-400 out of my repeater.
Scope may look a little high. Ordered high Burris Signatures that didn't clear. One.week.from the match I wanted to play it safe and ordered vortex extra high. My change those out tho.
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Sorry, I can't speak to that. All I know is what it says on their website. Max length for a Shilen is 24" and 22" for an ACE. I had originally ordered a Shilen but when I found out about the delay in Shilen's I decided to change it to an ACE. Personally, knowing my skill set, I don't think it would make that big of a deal seeing as how maximum distance I shoot is 100 yds.
I'm sure if you contact them they would have all the answers...
How did the Vudoo V22s do at chickenfoot 3/21 and 3/22.
My mistake on the barrel, I have a repeater V22, I have been using it as a benchrest gun for the last year in ARA 50 and 100 yard matches at our club. I ordered it with the Ridgeback stock and single shot insert. to say the least I have been very happy with it and continue to be very competitive with it. In December I won our club championship shoot. I have been using Center X ammo as that seems to group the best. I have been very happy with all the help from the people at Vudoo. The video's have been great. Their response to any of my questions was awesome, I was happy they just answered the phone, a rare happening in todays world. Made in America was another big plus too. I am new to benchrest shooting( long range wood chucks was my game in PA) I have been learning and improving my bench equipment, reading the wind flags is a tough job, but all of this has helped improve my scores, the Harrell tuner was another improvement that tighten the group., but I am shooting in a very good group of competitive shooters, many top name guns and many custom guns. When I ordered the repeater I knew the bench Model was coming , I Decided not to wait and look at it later after others started using it. I'm not new to shooting, I'm a retired farm boy and do a little bit of everything from sporting clay shooting twice a week and 22 matches twice a month and competitive black powder muzzleloader shoots once month. I have a 50 and 100 shooting range at my home here in Florida. Oh and by the way I am widowed to get away with all of this. Who is the buddy with the shilen barrel?
i have been
I believe there were two shot during the matches.
Norm (Ozark Shooter) finished 47th out of 64. It was the same gun that Jerry shot the 2500's with. I only point that out to say that experience and ammo has a large impact on results. I think Norm would agree so I don't think I am speaking out of turn. I spent some time talking to him at the match and enjoyed our conversation. It was also shot on Thursday night by Jerry and Bob. I don't recall the results, but it wasn't top 10. It's also a good example of different venues shoot very differently. One day your gun may be king, the next the pauper.
I believe Greg H shot his for a few cards and posted some nice scores (2300/2400). CW only shot his for some testing as he just got it.
At the end of the day, I don't think anyone who has any experience in the game would call the results good nor bad. It's the simple nature of the game. With more guns being shot, newer shooters gaining more experience, and spending more time with the guns to find out what they like/dislike, they will be able to compete with anyone else on any given day with the right shooter, ammo, and setup. If you think they are just going to show up and win, you will probably be disappointed, but that isn't specific to Vudoo.
So far so good! The ACE isn't supposed to be as picky as the Shilen as far as ammo selection. I'm finding SK Std + is working quite good. Better than SK Rifle Match, ELEY Black Box, and just as good as Center-X (although I'll qualify that by saying I've only sent about 100 rounds of C/X down). Much more testing is needed. The speed I shot was 1,076 (that was on the box. I haven't choreographed anything yet). I'd like to try something a little slower if I can get it. This gun is so much easier to shoot than my 40-X was. I do have to get used to the optic, though. I was used to a Weaver T-36. I'm using a Sightron III 45x45 now. I have not shot for score yet. It's a bit too soon for that. Just groups for now...
Thank you. It will get better with proper break-in. Those were 200-18x. And 200 - 16x (out of possible 200-20xNice cards and beautiful gun!
That's awesome!Great!
I took my repeater to small bore f class matches last year. Double Placed #3 in the season. Atlas bipod and rear bag, rifle in a cadex chassis...
Can't and won't complain
When Stephen T asked about V-22S at Chickenfoot (#1560) it occurred to me that there’s probably a lot people following this thread who don’t know what a Chickenfoot is. I may be wrong but I’ve found this thread’s readers are a diverse group who shoot F-Class, club benchrest matches and casual target shooting. Most of the V-22S builds guys have described on this thread are set up for F-Class or casual shooting. The serious benchrest shooters who are bringing V-22S builds along are in the minority. The majority of this post is my attempt to describe the rigors of rimfire benchrest shooting.
Chickenfoot is the name of a rimfire benchrest (RFBR) range that hosts the annual ARA (American Rimfire Association) Indoor National Tournament and one of four qualifying PSL (Professional Shooting League) matches. Chickenfoot is near Cedartown, Georgia on a real honest to goodness American farm.
There’s four major sanctioning bodies in RFBR: ARA, PSL, ABRA and IR-50/50. They are similar if you can agree the objective is the same for all four - repeatedly hit a dot the size of a pin head at 50 yards for 20 to 25 shots per card and anywhere between three and six cards per match. ARA and PSL are the most challenging RFBR targets as they penalize you for a single miss by decreasing your score by 50% (from 100 to 50). The other two sanctions penalize a miss with a 10% deduction (10 points to 9 points). Little mistakes in ARA and PSL cost you big time - not so much with ABRA and IR-50/50. A difference between ARA/PSL and IR-50/50 is the later scores total “ring count” and number of Xs. The target may be more forgiving than ARA/PSL but it’s often the number of Xs that win. Some say the IR-50/50 target is more demanding than ARA/PSL.
I don’t have a problem with what Hozie wrote about my V-22S Chickenfoot results. I do have a few thoughts to share about the other two V-22S competitor’s results. First, my results. I wasn’t happy with where my scores put me on the “leaderboard” but I didn’t embarrass myself either. My 2192 aggregate on six cards at my first National Tournament shooting a rifle I’d never shot before with three different lots of off-the-shelf Midas + that weren’t lot tested will just have to do. My strategy was to show up and shoot, take my thrashing, learn as much as I could, then go home and practice-practice-practice and compete-compete-compete. Next year I’ll go back with my mind set on beating my 2021 results. I don’t have any influence over the rest of the field - just myself - and my work’s definitely cut out for me.
Two other guys were shooting V-22S based rifles - both were their #2 guns. Their V-22Ss, like mine are currently under development. Carl Johnson shot the PSL with his #1 gun and shot the ARA with his V-22S that he’d taken delivery at the match. He only shot four targets because he had to return home for a scheduled family event. His aggregate was 2062.5. Greg Hissong shot all six cards, but shot the first three with his #1 gun. The last three cards were shot with his V-22S and his results were 2400, 2300 and 2400 (aggregate 2366.67). Greg would have been tied for fifth if he’d shot all six cards with his V-22S the way he shot the last three cards. His rifle is a shooter and he’s got pretty good control of it even though it’s still in development.
All three of these Vudoo V-22S rifles are “target” rifles. “Match” V-22S rifles will be built by the gunsmith you select using components you buy from various manufacturers. Per Mike Bush, “Vudoo is building what I've termed as a "target rifle" because I'll never give anyone the long-term impression that we're going to build full blown custom systems used in serious benchrest within what is a production environment.” Actions for both target and match builds are identical - it’s all about what the gunsmith or the owner decides is necessary to bring all the components (action, barrel, trigger, stock) together in a true competition rifle.
My Vudoo is a factory build that’s been measured, adjusted, polished, tuned and tested in an ARA match before being handed to me. The guy who took over where the VGW factory left off shot the first card in an ARA match resulting in a perfect 2500 at Howard Prince indoor range. I decided to shoot the rifle after taking some practice shots the evening before the ARA match and thinking, “this thing is shooting pretty well”. What the hell, I’ll take a chance and try my new rifle with untested ammo in a venue that was new (and intimidating). I might just get lucky - Not!!! My rifle shot consistent scores: 2100, 2150, 2200, 2150, 2200 and 2350 on the last card. The rifle didn’t let me down, I let the rifle down. I’ve now got to bring my aggregate up another 150 points to be in the hunt, at least with this crowd. I shot three different lots of Midas + - they all shot about the same - certainly none of these lots was “killer” ammo. I struggled with nerves and got more than one case of “target fear” as I worked my way through the six card, 300+ sighter/record shots.
Contributors and readers of this thread routinely ask to see targets shot with V-22S builds. We’ve seen a few targets, mostly groups, but few RFBR targets actually shot in competition. The target I’m sharing is my best card from the ARA Indoor Nationals. My score is 2350 out of a potential 2500 points. I’ve circled the three bulls that were 50s - the edge of my bullet broke the blue line which cost me 50 points on each bull. These rounds were out of the 100 ring by 0.017, 0.090 and 0.064”. Scoring is accomplished by scanning the target so a computer can do the measurements.
The 100 ring on an ARA target is 0.50” diameter. A .22LR bullet is 0.22”. A perfect card, 2500 points, requires 25 rounds land within a circular diameter of 0.28”. If you were shooting five round groups you’d want center-to-center measurements to be in the neighborhood of 0.15”. The more rounds shot in a group the more spread you’ll see in group size. Groups are shot without moving the rifle to another target which is required when shooting all RFBR targets. The shooter’s ability to move the rifle from bull to bull is critical. A friend of mine commented that he didn’t think benchrest shooting was a big deal - the rifle is strapped into a rest and the shooter only touches the trigger to send a round down range. I told him that he’d have to throw his rifle down on a bench and shoot a few targets in competition to realize the challenge a RFBR accepts. He has yet to accept my challenge and I’m looking forward to see how he does. The bottom line is a huge amount of RFBR success is in the preparation - everything has got to be optimized for a competitor to shoot a high score on a single card or in a match.
Like Hozie said, “I don't think anyone who has any experience in the game would call the results good nor bad.” I agree with you, Hozie, this is too limited a data set to determine just how competitive a V-22S action will be in an RFBR rifle. When all is said and done, it’s the entire system - all components put together by a competent technician, the right support equipment, the best ammo and the inevitable “nut behind the bolt” that will determine how competitive and popular Vudoo’s action will be in RFBR competition.
After shooting my rifle at Chickenfoot I believe the V-22S will hold it’s own and it’s overall success will be determined by a top-tier seasoned ARA competitor, not a hack like me, who decides to build on this action and campaign it on the “Big Stage”.
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Norm I would say that is a very well put honest write up.
Thanks for the post Ozark Shooter. I appreciate the time you took to put that together, it contains a lot of good information.
Norm,
Great write up and totally honest. I hope others follow your example and show up and shoot.
Target rifles or Match rifles don't put food on the table. The best use for them is to shoot them in matches with your buddies.
Glad you listed the four major RFBR sanctioning bodies. There is something for everyone in these different disciplines.
Which target is the most difficult has been argued for years. The benefit of the ARA and PSL target is you can miss the entire bull and still score a 2400.
A 2400 will win most cards at most matches. That miss could be caused by anything including a bad round of ammo.
In IR 50/50 if you missed the entire bull and hit dead center on the other 24 shots you would score 240 24X which will not win any target.
Many say there are two kinds of ammo. ARA ammo that shoots many center shots but may have an occasional flier.
The other is IR 50/50 ammo which may not shoot as many Xs but has no way out fliers. Those way out fliers are instant losers.
Stick with it Norm and you will be on the podium before you know it.
TKH
Great write up and totally honest. I hope others follow your example and show up and shoot.
Target rifles or Match rifles don't put food on the table. The best use for them is to shoot them in matches with your buddies.
Glad you listed the four major RFBR sanctioning bodies. There is something for everyone in these different disciplines.
Which target is the most difficult has been argued for years. The benefit of the ARA and PSL target is you can miss the entire bull and still score a 2400.
A 2400 will win most cards at most matches. That miss could be caused by anything including a bad round of ammo.
In IR 50/50 if you missed the entire bull and hit dead center on the other 24 shots you would score 240 24X which will not win any target.
Many say there are two kinds of ammo. ARA ammo that shoots many center shots but may have an occasional flier.
The other is IR 50/50 ammo which may not shoot as many Xs but has no way out fliers. Those way out fliers are instant losers.
Stick with it Norm and you will be on the podium before you know it.
TKH
Tony beat me to it.....
Nice write up Norm. Good overview for those who may not be familiar with the different BR games.
All I would add is that all of the games have their own intricacies, but IR50/50 is generally considered the most penalizing for a miss. A miss in IR50/50 means you shoot a 9. The challenge is that a 250/0X beats a 249/24X every time. It's one of the things that makes these games fun. You shoot each a bit differently depending on how penalizing the scoring is. A single miss in ARA and PSL is less likely to keep you from winning. Nowadays, if you don't shoot a 750 at most indoor matches in IR, you are relegated to at least 2nd place.
Nice write up Norm. Good overview for those who may not be familiar with the different BR games.
All I would add is that all of the games have their own intricacies, but IR50/50 is generally considered the most penalizing for a miss. A miss in IR50/50 means you shoot a 9. The challenge is that a 250/0X beats a 249/24X every time. It's one of the things that makes these games fun. You shoot each a bit differently depending on how penalizing the scoring is. A single miss in ARA and PSL is less likely to keep you from winning. Nowadays, if you don't shoot a 750 at most indoor matches in IR, you are relegated to at least 2nd place.
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I agree with you Hozzie on the IR 5050 matches. We shoot those at our club (just a few guys messin' around, all good shooters though). I shot a 249-18X and lost to a 250-4X. We're all good friends so we joked about it but I can see real disappointment at a big match. Just something one has to work through I guess. I also agree that there are "group" shooters and "card" shooters. In my opinion they're 2 different disciplines. That's not saying that a good "group" shooter can't become a good "card" shooter. All it takes is practice. What does that comedian say: "Practice makes perfect but nobody's perfect so I quit practicing". (lol)
Nice and honest as always Norm. Look forward to getting mine at last check there were 27 ahead of me......
As many have read in previous post my friend Greg. H shot his v22s at the indoor nationals the last three cards. Those scores were 2400/2300/2400. Witch is exceptionally well for a new build without much tuning or tinkering. Last night Greg shot his rifle in our local indoor Match. ARA cards. As photos have been requested here is his 2500 card from the match. Great shooting Greg keep up the good work.
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Rosco230,
You are quite wrong. That 2400, 2300, and 2400 is fantastic for anyone to shoot with any rifle.
The 2500 is as good as it gets. The man has a shooter, and he can shoot.
Hope to see him at some of the big matches this summer.
TKH
You are quite wrong. That 2400, 2300, and 2400 is fantastic for anyone to shoot with any rifle.
The 2500 is as good as it gets. The man has a shooter, and he can shoot.
Hope to see him at some of the big matches this summer.
TKH
That's a great looking target and I don't even see any shots needing plugged. Well done!
Was this a sanctioned match?
Landy
Was this a sanctioned match?
Landy
We will be attending matches this summer and it was a local match not sanctioned thru ARA but all rules scoring and time and distance the same. We shoot one card match every Friday gives us a chance to try new things and get together with our shooting friends as well as keep our trigger fingers in check year round.
A little time working on a few things at the range today with DEFTI. I don't yet have the Midas+ in-hand from the test center, but I do have a little Center X and Tenex that worked very well.
MB
MB
Thanks, Dude, at least for some little while, I can look the partThat's a fine rifle and a fine front and rear rest, MB.
Top-Notch all the way there!
. I have a lot to learn about shooting this thing....MB
Hey Mike, let me know if you find a thumb rest that works...Thanks, Dude, at least for some little while, I can look the part
MB
These pin strikes look great and different then the ones from the revised orig pin. Is this a pin redone for you at Ivans?A little time working on a few things at the range today with DEFTI. I don't yet have the Midas+ in-hand from the test center, but I do have a little Center X and Tenex that worked very well.
MB
Personally, I have numerous pins, each a little different. Largely, my rifles are test mules for various things.
MB
I've been using the "thumbs up" hand where the thumb is in the up position, trigger finger is the only thing that touches the rifle, while on the rest. You might need a small pad under your hand to be more comfortable. It took awhile to get comfortable in this position, but I have become accustomed to it now.
FYI.
RFS99
I've adopted something similar and found it works well after shooting a 2450 in Ivan's tunnel. Helps to have a great coach....
MB
What tips did Ivan give you that you thought helped the most? Can you share with us?
It’s difficult to explain in writing, but initially I was doing the crab claw pinch and he recommended I not do that. After watching Ivan, I adopted my own version of how he sets up for trigger press.
What’s interesting to watch on the target while experimenting with where I placed my digit, was how it affected where the shot landed. Once I produced the result I was after, I kept doing it that way by way of a highly particular process to break each shot. I believe everyone’s process is a little different because we’re not all built the same....
MB
I'm a third of the way through Calfee's The Art of Rimfire Accuracy (which I highly recommend), and I'm curious if anyone has built a pistol around the V-22S yet?
Very Nice!
We have 30 to 50 mph gusts here today in the midwest! Going to shoot inside tomorrow.
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