USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) on fire

Yeah that looks severe...……..heads have to roll.

All those interested in a proper insight about the causal factors of this disaster and what can be done to dramatically reduce the risks should read this: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ost-vulnerable-in-port-and-how-to-change-that

I can personally vouch for every single point he makes.

308pirate said:

All those interested in a proper insight about the causal factors of this disaster and what can be done to dramatically reduce the risks should read this: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ost-vulnerable-in-port-and-how-to-change-that

I can personally vouch for every single point he makes.

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I read that last night, but didn't post as you all are probably sick of my "reporting." ROFL.

Updates are saying all fires are out.

Somebody help an old landlubber. Aren't battle type ships designed and built to not burn easily? What would have to happen for a ship like this to burn like this? This can't be normal. These ships must be better suited to sustain itself even in the event of a large fire. Help out an old dog and explain how this kind of damage can take place while at the dock.

BullGear said:

Somebody help an old landlubber. Aren't battle type ships designed and built to not burn easily? What would have to happen for a ship like this to burn like this? This can't be normal. These ships must be better suited to sustain itself even in the event of a large fire. Help out an old dog and explain how this kind of damage can take place while at the dock.

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Check out the article linked above - in-port maintenance debris.

Not a bad article. The investigation will answer several questions.

I'm sure there will be a public over reaction to this, as there has been with other incidents, that will marginally be related. (Sleep hours)

Waorani said:

Check out the article linked above - in-port maintenance debris.

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One of the biggest problems is fire following cable trunks. The biggest question is what was stored in lower v that shouldn't have been.

gunsnjeeps said:

One of the biggest problems is fire following cable trunks. The biggest question is what was stored in lower v that shouldn't have been.

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this is true. Not only the 'cables' themselves which are highly flammable, but all the dust/dirt/grime/grease/oils that accumulate in these tracts/ducts/passages. Whenever I had to do 'hot work' there always needed to be "spark-watch" on scene AND at each level. Said spark-watch was responsible for controlling and putting out anything that flared up while I/we were working AS WELL AS for a minimum of 45 minutes after said work was completed.

The point of that, is simply that it is incredible how long something can be 'hot' and then smoulder and then burst into flame LONG AFTER said hot-work was completed. I have stated previous, in different threads over the years as to how fighting fires with 3 two-man teams each on a 1 1/2" line can happen.

And all this is simply in a sawmill. Aboard ship, where there is so much more flammable materials as well as oils and whatnot, not to mention 'nooks/crannies/traces/ducts' and all that, let alone "fire-stops" and whatnot....

Worst case scenario, squared.

Sean the Nailer said:

this is true. Not only the 'cables' themselves which are highly flammable, but all the dust/dirt/grime/grease/oils that accumulate in these tracts/ducts/passages. Whenever I had to do 'hot work' there always needed to be "spark-watch" on scene AND at each level. Said spark-watch was responsible for controlling and putting out anything that flared up while I/we were working AS WELL AS for a minimum of 45 minutes after said work was completed.

The point of that, is simply that it is incredible how long something can be 'hot' and then smoulder and then burst into flame LONG AFTER said hot-work was completed. I have stated previous, in different threads over the years as to how fighting fires with 3 two-man teams each on a 1 1/2" line can happen.

And all this is simply in a sawmill. Aboard ship, where there is so much more flammable materials as well as oils and whatnot, not to mention 'nooks/crannies/traces/ducts' and all that, let alone "fire-stops" and whatnot....

Worst case scenario, squared.

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Same thing of not waiting long enough is what ended Notre Dame. It actually takes a while for something to smolder and catch on fire. It's as if Bear Grylls is there cheating with his fire stick (which reminds me...I need one of those) and getting the fire started. 3/4-1 hour I think is probably reasonable. 1/4-1/2. Probably not.

To landlubber: Cable insulation, once on fire burns quite well, and is quite toxic - think PVC pipe. Insulation doesn't necessarily mean fireproof. Once it starts it'll follow the cable - especially with all the grease, grime and other crap. However, I don't think cabling itself would burn long enough to catch the whole ship on fire (but I don't know). Obviously it sounds like a ton of boxes, rags, chemical and such were stored together. Bad stuff there and once that gets going - all the cardboard is going to become a raging inferno followed by the chemical explosion they heard.

Despite temps up to 1200 degrees they think it can be repaired. However, now the question becomes...is 3-4 BILLION better spent on cyber-warfare capability? Cyber-warfare is the next big leap along with hypersonics.

BullGear said:

Somebody help an old landlubber. Aren't battle type ships designed and built to not burn easily? What would have to happen for a ship like this to burn like this? This can't be normal. These ships must be better suited to sustain itself even in the event of a large fire. Help out an old dog and explain how this kind of damage can take place while at the dock.

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Read the article I linked to in post 102 and then hit me up if you have any questions.

You are correct about one thing: ships in dockyard overhaul are in an abormal condition that requires a lot more discipline, vigilance, and attention to detail than when they are in an operational status (regardless of whether they are in port or at sea).

I served on two different ships over four and a half years (one a gas turbine powered frigate, the other a nuclear aircraft carrier). I was a qualified nuclear engineer on that carrier and my last year on it was all while the carrier was in overhaul at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.

BytorJr said:

To landlubber: Cable insulation, once on fire burns quite well, and is quite toxic - think PVC pipe. Insulation doesn't necessarily mean fireproof. Once it starts it'll follow the cable - especially with all the grease, grime and other crap. However, I don't think cabling itself would burn long enough to catch the whole ship on fire (but I don't know). Obviously it sounds like a ton of boxes, rags, chemical and such were stored together. Bad stuff there and once that gets going - all the cardboard is going to become a raging inferno followed by the chemical explosion they heard.

Despite temps up to 1200 degrees they think it can be repaired. However, now the question becomes...is 3-4 BILLION better spent on cyber-warfare capability? Cyber-warfare is the next big leap along with hypersonics.

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The ships cableways aren't the problem. It's all the shipyard's temporary cableways, air hoses, and various fluid hoses that are mostly commercial grade stuff.

As the article I linked mentions, lax discipline turns a squared away ship into a raging shithole while in the shipyard.

Can it be repaired? Absolutely. Should it be? That's an expense vs benefit question for the Navy to answer.

Cyberwarfare is cool because you can flex it without going hot. Hypersonic weapons? School me on that. Ordnance on target never wins a war. Boots on the ground closing with and destroying the enemy do. The Bonhomme Richard and other ships like it exist for no other purpose than to put boots on the ground almost anywhere in the world within a few days and support and sustain them while they're there. While you can fly troops in from CONUS faster than you can land them from a ship, sustainment is a completely different matter.

We must have that capability.

Sean the Nailer said:

this is true. Not only the 'cables' themselves which are highly flammable, but all the dust/dirt/grime/grease/oils that accumulate in these tracts/ducts/passages. Whenever I had to do 'hot work' there always needed to be "spark-watch" on scene AND at each level. Said spark-watch was responsible for controlling and putting out anything that flared up while I/we were working AS WELL AS for a minimum of 45 minutes after said work was completed.

The point of that, is simply that it is incredible how long something can be 'hot' and then smoulder and then burst into flame LONG AFTER said hot-work was completed. I have stated previous, in different threads over the years as to how fighting fires with 3 two-man teams each on a 1 1/2" line can happen.

And all this is simply in a sawmill. Aboard ship, where there is so much more flammable materials as well as oils and whatnot, not to mention 'nooks/crannies/traces/ducts' and all that, let alone "fire-stops" and whatnot....

Worst case scenario, squared.

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The Navy does a much better job of preparing the worksite for the hazards of hot work than anyone I've ever seen in industry, at least procedurally. I know. I've had to sign plenty of hot work chits in the years I worked as a marine engineer in the USN.

The Bonhomme Richard is a serious, and I do mean serious, outlier. Many careers will end because of it.

308pirate said:

The ships cableways aren't the problem. It's all the shipyard's temporary cableways, air hoses, and various fluid hoses that are mostly commercial grade stuff.

As the article I linked mentions, lax discipline turns a squared away ship into a raging shithole while in the shipyard.

Can it be repaired? Absolutely. Should it be? That's an expense vs benefit question for the Navy to answer.

Cyberwarfare is cool because you can flex it without going hot. Hypersonic weapons? School me on that. Ordnance on target never wins a war. Boots on the ground closing with and destroying the enemy do. The Bonhomme Richard and other ships like it exist for no other purpose than to put boots on the ground almost anywhere in the world within a few days and support and sustain them while they're there. While you can fly troops in from CONUS faster than you can land them from a ship, sustainment is a completely different matter.

We must have that capability.

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Agree 308!! Boots on ground wins military actions. Somebody forgot to tell W and Rummy. But to get there safely and not with an Iwo Jima type bloodbath, gotta lay the path down. Hence why it was critical to have a JSF carrying ship. Though I could also argue...isn't this why we have carriers?.

As far as hypersonic weapons - well, I guess since they are hauling ass they are very hard to hit with anything like sea-wiz. I guess I should add to that list...hypersonic defense (lasers and rail guns and stuff like that - everything people laughed at Reagan about....EVERYTHING he wanted is pretty much here or close. ) Don't think the enemy didn't heed Reagan!!!

I've read in Aviation Week about the chinese hypersonic missiles they are trying to develop to kill our carriers. Scary shit. Sooner or later those carriers are going to be as out of date as a battleship - my guess is 30 years. I'll be dead by then, most likely so not too concerned if indeed they become out of date.

308pirate said:

Read the article I linked to in post 102 and then hit me up if you have any questions.

You are correct about one thing: ships in dockyard overhaul are in an abormal condition that requires a lot more discipline, vigilance, and attention to detail than when they are in an operational status (regardless of whether they are in port or at sea).

I served on two different ships over four and a half years (one a gas turbine powered frigate, the other a nuclear aircraft carrier). I was a qualified nuclear engineer on that carrier and my last year on it was all while the carrier was in overhaul at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard.

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CVN 70 by chance?

IrishWind said:

Boots on ground won Afghanistan and Iraq (2003). Problem in either case the head shed (AKA State, Pentagon, and 1600) had zero plans except unicorn rainbow farts on what to do once we won. While Afghanistan was kind of a reaction to events, we had 12 years to imagine a post Saddam Iraq and how to approach it.

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I probably should have been more specific. Yes, we won in Iraq but then didn't (controversial statement coming) occupy like we did in German/Japan and have a plan (Marshall) on WTF to do and as a result the ethnic factions/Iran resulted in chaos. You're spot on with that. Rainbow farts, unicorn pee,whatever - no plan. The shock and awe was a bit overrated as well - at least in Baghdad that first night.

I believe I heard early on that was some type of large explosion onboard. Has anyone given a good explanation of what that explosion was?

backsideof45 said:

CVN 70 by chance?

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68

BullGear said:

I believe I heard early on that was some type of large explosion onboard. Has anyone given a good explanation of what that explosion was?

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Nothing that has been written or said in the press or social media about what started the fire or why it was so tough to fight is even close to being correct. Because none of them know fuck all about it.

Why don't they know? Because no one has had a chance go investigate.

You will see, in the weeks to come, armchair admirals just overflowing with bullshit pontificating about this, that, or the other. Some will be wearing a suit and tie on some cable news show with an impressive sounding title of "captain" or "admiral" so and so and "military analyst". Unless the guy was a career Surface Warfare Officer (and it's likely neither him nor who pays him will disclose) he probably doesn't know as much as he makes out to know.

Mark my words

BytorJr said:

I've read in Aviation Week about the chinese hypersonic missiles they are trying to develop to kill our carriers. Scary shit. Sooner or later those carriers are going to be as out of date as a battleship - my guess is 30 years. I'll be dead by then, most likely so not too concerned if indeed they become out of date.

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We're nowhere near as defenseless against chink missiles as the breathless press and defense analysts make it out to be.

And we're not standing still.

308pirate said:

RIM-174 Standard ERAM - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We're nowhere near as defenseless against chink missiles as the breathless press and defense analysts make it out to be.

And we're not standing still.

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That's not really anti-hypersonic (> Mach 5) though. Cruise missile are generally not hypersonic (yet). SM-3 is hypersonic itself. But that's not for ship defense. SM-6 could based on wikipedia numbers defeat this; but it'd be close based on speeds.


Herein is another problem. The general public doesn't know what a freaking missile is other than something with a rocket. Obviously you and others (probably 90% of our Hide) understands the concepts (hey...it's a moving target) but again...Suzy Homemaker doesn't know a retired ATACMS from a SM-3 or an ICBM. This is important shit and the dems generally want to donate that money to members of ANTIFA, BLM, TA (transexuals anonymous), etc, etc.
Having a killer defense system is the best way to avoid a war...proven time and time and time again.

CO, XO, Cheng, DCA for starters. Safety O, IHO, Suppo possibly. Combat Cargo if assigned. Not sure about CMC and parts of DC Div.

As far as repairs, I doubt it. By the time you do repairs you will spend more than new construction. It's not battle damage so there is no show of resiliency.

A U.S. Navy sailor is being questioned by investigators for possible arson after allegedly starting the massive fire on the USS Bonhomme Richard in San Diego in July, according to defense officials.

BytorJr said:

That's not really anti-hypersonic (> Mach 5) though. Cruise missile are generally not hypersonic (yet). SM-3 is hypersonic itself. But that's not for ship defense. SM-6 could based on wikipedia numbers defeat this; but it'd be close based on speeds.

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An anti-air missile does not need to be hypersonic to intercept a hypersonic weapon. Unless you served in the Navy in some sort of surface warfare combat systems capacity you're simply repeating internet BS.

Some of us actually have been there and done that.......

In ‘93-‘94 some MM threw a box of spanners into the reduction gear of a ship because he didn’t want to deploy. It isn’t unheard of.

Wow. So sorry to hear this. My wife and i were volunteers for Fleet Week, for the Blue Angels . We received an invitation and attended the Admiral's Reception on board the Bon Homme Richard. Met the Captain, the Admiral ( don't remember their names) and the Chiefs of Boat from both the Richard and whatever the flagship carrier was at the time. Quite an experience for an Army vet. Talked with a lot of the Marines, toured the ship with a few lower level politicians, and spent a lot of time that evening in medical spaces, discussing different scenarios with their top PA. Best part about the evening was seeing and visiting with 4 Pearl Harbor Survivors (the next year there was only one at the event, the Reception on the Makin Island). Sad to see such a noble ship get scrapped by a screw -up

IrishWind said:

Arson. Hmmm, adds a new wrinkle. Next question is the sailors name. Just to make sure this isn't a terror linked event, just a super disgruntled sailor.

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Most succesful attack since a pair of Viet Cong Commandos sunk the USNS Card in port of Saigon 1964 as USS Bonhomme is scrap metal now. Surpasing the case when arsonist torched the attack submarine USS Miami (SSN-755) in 2012

I would think that any metal above the waterline is bad now.
I base this thought solely on my experiences welding on various tanks with water in them either full or less.
Welding on the exterior of tanks below the water line and above, it took a hell of a lot more juice to get welds hot enough below said waterline than above it.

I am not Navy, I know sickum doodle shit about Navy stuff and like it that way.
I am Army and if you want to know about foxholes and filling sandbags, well, I could probably write a Phd. thesis on that shit.

That is all I have to say about this but sure am sad such a noble ship came to this end.

Does the navy still KeelHaul?

They probably should but I ain't going near any of those boats to find out.
My boots are on the ground. Fuck all of these watersports activities.

Not to put a fine point on what has been damaged where, but my 76 Nova from high school with a cassette deck and CB Radio has more operational electronics.

308pirate said:

An anti-air missile does not need to be hypersonic to intercept a hypersonic weapon. Unless you served in the Navy in some sort of surface warfare combat systems capacity you're simply repeating internet BS.

Some of us actually have been there and done that.......

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Not saying it's not possible, just that it's harder. Actually though, building a hypersonic interceptor isn't exactly easy. Depends on where the intercept is taking place as well, maneuverability of target, boost phase, terminal phase, etc, etc. Lot's of variables as to what works best. No allegiance to Raytheon either - except I'll say most of their "technology" came from the acquisition of Texas Instruments in Lewisville, TX. Bet LockMarty wishes now they'd have combined their missile division with those guys.

I have 2 dogs named after rockets I saw going after drones when I was in BCT and the rocket launchers were in AIT on the range at Ft. Bliss, Texas in 68 based on what those rockets were doing.
One is Nike Ajax and one Nike Zeus, and when the dogs were young they moved as fast as those rockets. I just call them Ajax and Zeus now and have done so from the start. But those little fuckers were fast. They are named after the rockets, not the Greek gods.
They are 14 YO now and still pretty fast but time is catching up to them. We don't play ball anymore.

I have a Rez. dog rescue named Cleo who is taking up some of the slack. Only God knows what breed she is but I love her and she has come a long ways from the cowering girl I got to one that sleeps with me at night and now knows how to play ball and enjoy it.

Sorry to derail your thread but there are some Happy Times out there. You just have to find them.

BytorJr said:

Not saying it's not possible, just that it's harder. Actually though, building a hypersonic interceptor isn't exactly easy. Depends on where the intercept is taking place as well, maneuverability of target, boost phase, terminal phase, etc, etc. Lot's of variables as to what works best. No allegiance to Raytheon either - except I'll say most of their "technology" came from the acquisition of Texas Instruments in Lewisville, TX. Bet LockMarty wishes now they'd have combined their missile division with those guys.

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Sounds like you got some professional experience either on the systems side or the operational side. Mine's on the operational side. Which one is yours from?

308pirate said:

Sounds like you got some professional experience either on the systems side or the operational side. Mine's on the operational side. Which one is yours from?

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I interviewed with both TI and RTN a VERY long time ago . Never worked for either one. Apparently, at one time I was smart. Old age and senility are kicking in. Wait..no, I'm not Joe Biden, I swear.

$3/4 billion down the shitter....

Looks like they never pinned the fire on anyone specific.

Just gives you the warm and fuzzies when you write that check to the IRS

She's getting towed out to scrap today, leaving the bay:

Guessing this guy is still in jail wishing he had gotten away with his crime.....

Local town rumor the sailor is sitting in balboa psyche ward. We'll see where that goes.

pmclaine said:

Guessing this guy is still in jail wishing he had gotten away with his crime.....

USS Miami Arsonist Gets 17 years in Prison - USNI News

The admitted arsonist that set fire to the nuclear attack submarine USS Miami was sentenced to 17 years in federal prison on Friday, according to several press reports. Casey James Fury, 25, plead guilty in November to setting the May, 23 fire aboard the Los Angeles-class submarine that was...

news.usni.org

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"In addition to the prison time, federal statutes require Fury to pay $400 million in damages"

Ouch, there goes his stimulus payment.