Kestrel ballistics vs charts

IdahoSpud · May 31, 2021

I finally have a solid load and I'm ready to start applying some stuff and playing around. How many people use a Kestrel with a ballistic calculator for firing solutions vs charts? Should I buy a basic Kestrel so I can just get a wind reading and make some charts, or go straight to a Kestrel with a ballistic calculator?

I watched that entire Sniper 101 series (I know he went way overboard) and that dude makes it sound like you need to write a books worth of charts for every rifle in all atmospheric conditions. Are Kestrels ballistic calculators plenty good enough for most long range shooting, or do I need to make some charts?

I see there are a lot of charts on here. Do most people print them out and laminate them? Is there a way to have some more sturdy and rain proof ones made?

6.5SH · May 31, 2021

Electronic devices can die or malfunction at the worst times so having your dope on paper even if purely as a backup makes sense.
"Rite in the rain" brand paper, DIY laminating kits or a visit to your local Fedex print shop are all options for durability.

To get started you really don't need to buy anything.

Truing your Ballistic Calculator with Gravity Ballistics

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

The Modern Wind Rose.

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

A free online fully featured calculator (and you can make printable charts with it):

JBM - Calculations

www.jbmballistics.com

A free (for one rifle) phone app that uses the JBM engine above:

GeoBallistics | Ballistics App for iPhone and Android

geoballistics.com

As to matters of convenience, workflow or features, you need to decide for yourself what is important and worth the price of admission.
I have a Kestrel 5700 Elite but I primarily use it for wind and environmental data. I know it will work in temperatures where my cellphone won't, so it serves as an alternate instead of my primary as far as calculators go. I find the work flow and convenience of the phone worthwhile to use as my primary. Printed dope sheets or my book are my contingency. A DIY "dope disc" inside the rear lens cover is my emergency dope.

ma smith · May 31, 2021

Check out hornady 4DOF app to get a feel for a decent user interface on an app. The downsides are all the assumptions are never visible at one time, so if smething it out of order your dope will be off. With charts, you can have most assuptions visible on a single page, and then have other pages for dope. Downside of charts is if you need high resolution for UKD targets or highly variable weather/envionmentals or mulitple loads, etc then your charts start to mulitply. Then organization becomes an issue...whereas the apps don't take up more physical space with each new scanario.

IdahoSpud · May 31, 2021

6.5SH said:
Electronic devices can die or malfunction at the worst times so having your dope on paper even if purely as a backup makes sense.
"Rite in the rain" brand paper, DIY laminating kits or a visit to your local Fedex print shop are all options for durability.

To get started you really don't need to buy anything.

Truing your Ballistic Calculator with Gravity Ballistics

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

The Modern Wind Rose.

Follow Sniper's Hide and pick up the latest information on all things precision rifle related. Sniper's Hide Training is for the serious tactical marksman.

www.snipershide.com

A free online fully featured calculator (and you can make printable charts with it):

JBM - Calculations

www.jbmballistics.com

A free (for one rifle) phone app that uses the JBM engine above:

GeoBallistics | Ballistics App for iPhone and Android

geoballistics.com

As to matters of convenience, workflow or features, you need to decide for yourself what is important and worth the price of admission.
I have a Kestrel 5700 Elite but I primarily use it for wind and environmental data. I know it will work in temperatures where my cellphone won't, so it serves as an alternate instead of my primary as far as calculators go. I find the work flow and convenience of the phone worthwhile to use as my primary. Printed dope sheets or my book are my contingency. A DIY "dope disc" inside the rear lens cover is my emergency dope.

Thanks!

Frank (or whoever) should really think about a hard plastic version of that modern wind rose. I'd buy it.

Steel head · May 31, 2021

I used charts and mobile apps for years
Recently got a sweet deal on a kestrel, absolutely no regrets.

IdahoSpud · May 31, 2021

Steel head said:
I used charts and mobile apps for years
Recently got a sweet deal on a kestrel, absolutely no regrets.

Do you just punch in all your data and get a solid firing solution? I'd assume that a computer is going to give a more accurate firing solution than scrolling through a bunch of charts and trying to put it all together, but I've seen a few videos somewhat making fun of them saying people go through their apps and then miss by a foot instead of knowing their dope from charts?

Steel head · May 31, 2021

IdahoSpud said:
Do you just punch in all your data and get a solid firing solution? I'd assume that a computer is going to give a more accurate firing solution than scrolling through a bunch of charts and trying to put it all together, but I've seen a few videos somewhat making fun of them saying people go through their apps and then miss by a foot instead of knowing their dope from charts?

Punch in data
Set environment and lock
Shoot and true
Done
You still have to do your part with the wind but getting get wind reading is still helpful especially in stronger winds.

After that you can update the environment at new location or weather change, lock it and your GTG.

Don’t try to true it in wonky conditions.

6.5SH · May 31, 2021

@ OP Read the first article I linked. Some work does go into both methods. The computer is only as accurate as the info you enter, when you SWAG it or the program fudges a number the prediction will be off.

Hairball · Jun 1, 2021

Carry an extra set of batteries and the likelihood of you kestrel going down is about zero. Check it at 600 yards and make velocity adjustment until you are POA/POI. As an example, I plug in my chrono data and it calls for 3.6 at 600 when actual impact puts me at 3.4. Adjust the velocity in kestrel until it gives you a 3.4 solution for 600. In regards to a plastic wind rose, just print one and laminate it and put it in the log book.

ma smith · Jun 1, 2021

One issue to think about dependin on ranges and calibres youa are shooting is possibly bullet jump. In theory a wind from the right or left should be moving the projectile based upon time flight (which is a function of exit speed/initial velocity and BC/drag).

However the more advancec calculators will factor in the spin in relation to the wind and you will get a more accurate dope out of a calculator vs a dope chart unless you have dope charts set up wiht left and right wind calls...again, this means multiplying charts and not just a single list of 10 numbers from 1oo to 1000 yds etc.

Whether or not this matters depends alot on the calibre and the average wind speeds, EG 22lrs will show this on very windy days at modest ranges, but for many situations its a nuance.

Aerodynamic Jump with 22lr.

You better know about this if you want to shoot small with a 22lr in the wind!

www.snipershide.com

Lowlight · Jun 1, 2021

A computer cannot fix bad shooting or poor fundamentals

The term garbage in, is very real, you have to do your part. The math is pretty much set, there are some minor disagreements between ballisticians but most of those won't mean a miss inside 1500m, if you are missing with a calculator it's probably your fault.

I tend to turn off the flourishes they add-in, like SD, AJ, CE, my data is trued to verified drops which include all that already so I am not looking to put it in twice. Most of those types of misses are wind-related.

Weaponized math works, it's confirmed with a lot of different rifle and caliber combinations, and is 10x easier than software to get you up and running quickly. Once you have the first number established, the rest fall into place.

We use one sheet now for everything, a single weaponized math page solves it all

Danimal35 · Jun 1, 2021

I’m not a very experienced shooter and having the ability to punch my info in the kestrel and have accurate ballistics in any atmospheric condition was priceless. Allows me to work on fundamentals and not shooting prone all day making charts.

I’m glad I went straight to a kestrel

IdahoSpud · Jun 1, 2021

Thanks for the replies. I think I’m going to stick with the stuff posted above to save some money for now and just buy a low end kestrel for wind readings. I can buy the ballistic software ones later and have a back up.

Lowlight · Jun 1, 2021

If you don't travel the kestrel is not helping you much, beyond doing most of the heavy lifting for you ... but you still won't know what you don't know, doing the work educates, identifies patterns you might miss just using software

A Kestrel is best used if you travel to multiple locations.

During a typical shooting season, a local range will not change data much unless you are trying to stitch winter and summer together, but spring to fall is not gonna be a miss weather-wise unless the plate is sub-MOA

If you know your data for that range/location, it's not gonna move much, .2 here and there on plates that usually .6 + in size

IdahoSpud · Jun 1, 2021

lowlight said:
If you don't travel the kestrel is not helping you much, beyond doing most of the heavy lifting for you ... but you still won't know what you don't know, doing the work educates, identifies patterns you might miss just using software

A Kestrel is best used if you travel to multiple locations.

During a typical shooting season, a local range will not change data much unless you are trying to stitch winter and summer together, but spring to fall is not gonna be a miss weather-wise unless the plate is sub-MOA

If you know your data for that range/location, it's not gonna move much, .2 here and there on plates that usually .6 + in size

I was just going to get the cheapest kestrel to read wind speed and direction. Are most people just trying to read mirage and not doing that?

spife7980 · Jun 1, 2021

IdahoSpud said:
I was just going to get the cheapest kestrel to read wind speed and direction. Are most people just trying to read mirage and not doing that?

Id get the geoballistics paid app and their little dongle for like 100 bucks combined. Its the JBM engine with some nifty satellite ranging and competition stage shit added in. And you can even use it with a kestrel too.

And do both, use what you are measuring to build a foundation upon which to judge what you are seeing. Dont get frustrated when its tough, thats the challenge that makes it fun. No one will ever be perfect at reading the wind and the best ones will still admit that they suck at it. If you are prefect at it then you simply arent shooting far enough.

The electronics are convenient over paper. Id never carry 15 rifles worth of load cards everywhere with me in my pocket at all times for all conditions. But geoballistics/ballisticsrc is a must have for the price in my opinion.

Lowlight · Jun 1, 2021

Phones are a No Go for anyone serious ...

spife7980 · Jun 1, 2021

lowlight said:
Phones are a No Go for anyone serious ...

Why not?

Serious in that they are halo jumping or serious in that a battery could die?

Admittedly, Im just a hobbyist that enjoys it and gets nothing else back other than my pleasure.

Lowlight · Jun 1, 2021

Not Serious in, they are not durable, sure you can otter box them to hell and back, but very few do that, they break easily

Not serious in, out West here they go into Heat Mode within 15 minutes of laying them on your shooting mat

Not serious in, they are a game on the phone, people use them exactly like they use Candy Crush

RIght tool for the job is not our cellphones

Long Range 338 · Jun 1, 2021

I also resisted getting a kestrel for a long time but it really is a BIG cheat. If all you ever used was the Kestrel, you would be missing out on learning about ballistics. You can enter proper data, shoot, and true without really knowing what you’re doing.
The charts, phone apps, and studying to learn the old fashioned way teaches a lot.
Sign up for the online training here and invest in yourself, it’s a great learning experience. Lots of good mentors here to help fill in any gaps and with the current price of ammo you will save enough money to pay for the training. Eventually you will get the Kestrel as well…. I recommend buying the Elite and avoid the baby steps.

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Kestrel ballistics vs charts

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