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Suppressors Precision Rifle Bolt Action Suppressor Debate

Nuravictus

Private
Minuteman
Aug 23, 2020
11
4
I am looking to add a suppressor to my active lineup.
This will be mounted on my 7mm rem mag.
i am open to ideas and options. I currently have and use a DeadAir Sandman L and Rugged Surge. These have other primary rifles they live on but I cant ignore my 7mm. So I am debating for the top 2 on my list of DeadAir Nomad-Ti and the Thunderbeast Ultra 9. Need some input here.

Goal is getting the suppressor under 140db for hunting, quality suppressor from a quality company, reduce recoil. Needs to stay on and not mess with things as I hump it all over the mountain side for a week at a time, occasionally falling down the mountain side with me or eating dirt as I erm, gracefully wipeout. 😅🤣

@Zak Smith TBAC Guy
@TBACRAY
@MudRunner2005

Edit: By me at 2300 10th September 2021 I literally just ran across this by accident.
CGS Hyperion
 
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I am looking to add a suppressor to my active lineup.
This will be mounted on my 7mm rem mag.
i am open to ideas and options. I currently have and use a DeadAir Sandman L and Rugged Surge. These have other primary rifles they live on but I cant ignore my 7mm. So I am debating for the top 2 on my list of DeadAir Nomad-Ti and the Thunderbeast Ultra 9. Need some input here.

Goal is getting the suppressor under 140db for hunting, quality suppressor from a quality company, reduce recoil. Needs to stay on and not mess with things as I hump it all over the mountain side for a week at a time, occasionally falling down the mountain side with me or eating dirt as I erm, gracefully wipeout. 😅🤣

@Zak Smith TBAC Guy
@TBACRAY
@MudRunner2005
Get the Dead Air Nomad-LT (Titanium). The extra sound suppression you will get over the Nomad-Ti is worth the slight extra length. It's essentially a solid titanium Nomad-L, and it weighs only 12.6 oz. I love mine, it's an amazing can.


If you want to hear how it sounds, check out the videos on my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/MudRunner2005/videos

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I have an ultra9 and ultra7, the ultra9 on my 7rem mag has been awesome. I just got a 7sst with 22" barrel that is nothing short of amazing with the ultra9 on it. My only regret on the 7rem mag is the 26" barrel along with the can is soooo long for hiking through low trees etc
 
Here's a prior write up with important info on the Hyperion if you haven't already seen it:

You can shoot 5.56 through a Hyperion no problem, you just need to use the 1/2x28 Hyperion Thread Adapter so you can install it on the 1/2x28 barrel. Minimum barrel length for CGS titanium rifle silencers is 10" for 5.56 and similar like 5.45.

The Hyperion is a DMLS titanium rifle silencer with a permanent 5/8x24 direct thread socket with the SIG 25 deg taper interface. It was originally designed for an 18" 260 Remington AR10 and a 6.75" 300 Blackout machine gun. While not designed for bolt guns at all, it works extremely well with them for sound reduction and long distance precision. All current commercial production CGS rifle silencers are precision rifle silencers due to the symmetrical design. All properly designed long range precision rifle silencers will have a symmetrical blast chamber/baffle, and all others that claim to be precision rifle silencers which don't, definitely should.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNL92dQr3Zl/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNG5AQ0r3Of/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CNdAhkSLY97/

https://www.instagram.com/p/COWHRfTLleZ/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CO9EbocHt1o/

https://www.instagram.com/p/COof9SQLWUQ/

and



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On a 22" bolt gun firing supersonic 6.5 Creedmoor the Hyperion's even quieter than some other silencers firing subsonic Blackout through an 8" bolt gun: https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-37-cgs-hyperion-surgeon-65cm and https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-29-half-nelson-minifix-300blk

And it's very nearly the same suppression rating as the https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-38-voxs-wiped-minifix-300blk and Hyperion's still quieter at the ear.

It's also quieter firing supersonic 6.5 Creedmoor on a 22" bolt gun than shooting subsonic 9mm through the CGS MOD 9 on an HK P30L: https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-6-cgsmod9fs-p30l

The additive manufacturing process we use makes our rifle silencers far stronger than other comparative rifle silencers for a few reasons. Our manufacturing process creates parts with even higher strength and hardness than billet or forgings or castings or MIM, and does so with increased material density. There are no welds so there are no welds to fail and no welds to warp causing concentricity problems along the length of the silencer. This eliminates welding issues such as welds breaking and their byproducts such as warping, entirely. The monolithic structure and lack of welds make CGS rifle silencers very strong and eliminates failures, concentricity problems, and QC issues from welds. Even if the weld looks perfectly silver on the exterior you can easily have something that looks fine on the outside but the weld won’t penetrate properly for a number of reasons such as electrical problems within the machine itself, operator error, contamination, etc, so it’ll be super weak and it won’t be caught until the weld failure occurs in the end users hands as their using it. That applies to all materials, not just titanium, and failures like that are part of why CGS no longer gets silencers welded by another silencer company.

The Hyperion VCD design itself makes the silencer stronger than any other comparative silencer by better controlling heat and pressure to prevent hot spots from forming. The first chamber is immediately vented and gas is allowed to flow around the first core and is then reintroduced to the main flow further down stream and this also helps reduce thermal signature. Simplicity in design eliminates small, complex cavities and other undesirable features. The titanium silencers also have a proprietary heat treatment applied which further increases strength and hardness. They're internally coated with hexagonal boron nitride which decreases friction, increases surface hardness, and prevents fouling from sticking in the first place which eliminates the need to clean because fouling can't easily stick to internal geometry, though they still could be cleaned if ever required. The internal coating also limits/eliminates titanium white sparking depending on cartridge and barrel length. Titanium white sparking is a separate thing from flash and can't be controlled with a flash hider. The exterior is coated with black DLC. They're also the only dual function silencers available that can be converted simply by changing out the front cap with a 7/8" wrench. This allows you to have a traditional type silencer and a flow bypass type silencer all in one simple package. With future front cap releases it'll also be adjustable across the entire spectrum of sound, flash, and gas reduction just by swapping out the front cap. No longer do you have to live with just one permanent setting on a silencer. Both front caps and rear caps are retained with shallow taper joints which helps with concentricity and cap retention as it has more grip than a square shoulder. This also makes it future proof so regardless of when new front or rear caps are made they'll always be concentric to the silencer bore.

CGS rifle silencers are also some of the very few that don't sacrifice subsonic performance to achieve supersonic performance, it excels at both without compromise. Usually rifle silencers will either be good at supersonic and mediocre at subsonic, or good at subsonic and mediocre at supersonic. This can be seen with SIG and Q silencers where they're good at subsonic suppression but don't perform with supersonic ammo anywhere near as well. Since 99% of strikes occur on the front cap, since we don't use any welds in our silencers, and since our DMLS process creates a superior product in every meaningful way there's nothing that's going to need repairing other than on extremely rare occasion the front cap which is easily sent in the mail. In over three or four years no DMLS rifle silencers have been returned for repair from military, government, or commercial customers or consultants because the root of the primary problems are eliminated.

The Hyperion VCD technology is also used in our GPMG 762 silencer made for the M240, MAG 58, MK48, etc as well as belt fed 338 Norma Magnum machine guns. Here's 1259rds fired through one on an M240:

The effectiveness of this technology can also be seen plainly in the Helios QD. It's nearly 2" shorter than a Thunderbeast Ultra 9 but it's very nearly the same suppression level and the Helios QD is just as capable of a precision long range rifle silencer as an Ultra 9, if not more so: https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-13-cgs-helios-qd-savage-308 and https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-24-tbac-ultra-9-savage-308

And the Helios QD is also quieter than your Dead Air Sandman L and your Rugged Surge in it's longest config: https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-23-deadair-sandman-l-savage-308 and https://pewscience.com/sound-signature-reviews-free/sss-6-22-rugged-surge-savage-308

The titanium version of the Helios QD gets released any day in the next few weeks and weighs ~11oz, almost half of what the 718 Inconel Helios QD weighs.

PewScience is the only valid, unbiased, and accurate silencer sound testing available to consumers and everyone else including manufacturers, dealers, distributors, and YouTubers and it's the sole source of data everyone should be using and referencing for data on silencer sound. Everything else you see, for example anytime you see single peak meter data like in Silencer Shop videos or when you see any form of data from companies that sell or manufacture silencers or silencer mounts or accessories in general, is simply meaningless entertainment for the uninformed consumer/viewer being passed off as science and fact. PewScience has tested some stuff on 5.56 already, it's just not been published yet.
 
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If my math is right, the dimensions of the nomad LT and ultra 9 suggests the LT has about 25% more volume than the ultra 9 so probably better dB and recoil reduction. Is it worth the extra 1.5 oz and wider can dimension? TB is known for the accuracy, are you as confident Dead Air's?
 
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I read halfway through that giant advertisement and realized paco was selling his own products with some serious word salad.

As was mentioned above TBAC's Ultra line is the gold standard. Dead Air's Nomad line and SilencerCo's Omega are very good alternatives for precision rifle. I own both Dead Air and SiCo, but if I had the option today I would go with the 7inch Gen2 6.5mm TBAC Ultra suppressor and use their thread over muzzle break.
 
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I own multiple Sico, DA, Bowers, TBAC. Settled on an Ultra7 30cal for my bolt gun hunting uses.
 
I was set on nomad lt but have since changed my mind I plan on getting the ultra 9 or Hyperion. I have nomad ti in jail. Just the more I read about the design of the nomads make me second guess them for precision rifles. I hope I am wrong but plan on trying another brand.
 
First TBAC I bought was a 30BA for use on a DTA SRS with 6x47L & 284 Win bbls. Aside from the ugly BA brake, I was happy with it. Just before the stamp for the BA came back, TBAC announced the 30CB9, so I ordered one. And less than a month before the stamp came back for it, they announced the Ultra line, so I bought an Ultra 7 - and midway through the wait for the stamp for it, they announced the Ultra line with 6.5mm aperture, but they'd already assigned a s/n to my order for the Ultra 7, so...

When TBAC announced the program where you could send older suppressors back to have the Ultra baffle stack installed, I decided to send the 30BA in for the modification. The resulting suppressor is noticeably quieter than either the 30CB9 or Ultra 7. Until last year, I used the 30BA/Ultra on a 6 Dasher LR BR rifle built on a BAT 3L action that I shoot in BR varmint silhouette matches out to 500m - the extra length wasn't any sort of a handicap when shooting off rests, and since we shoot under a covered firing line, I really appreciated how quiet the 'Ultra 9' was. However, when I decided to compare 600yd group sizes with all three of these TBAC cans on that rifle, the Ultra 7 shot so much better than either of the 9" cans that I thought I'd better do the same comparisons on a few of my other rifles, all of which had barrels in either sendero or hvy Palma contours. Again, the Ultra 7's groups were superior to either of the 9" cans. This lead to the purchase of a Gen 2 Ultra 7 with 6.5mm aperture, which is still in jail.
 
Thunder Beast for the win! Been hunting and range shooting mine for 4 years now. I have dropped it, banged it around and it is going strong.

When I shoot at Antelope, they look at me and belly-laugh. That’s until they start to wonder why Big-Joe is taking a dirt nap. Meanwhile, I’m drawing a bead on fat cindy and sleepy time comes for her too. They stop laughing 😳
 
If my math is right, the dimensions of the nomad LT and ultra 9 suggests the LT has about 25% more volume than the ultra 9 so probably better dB and recoil reduction. Is it worth the extra 1.5 oz and wider can dimension? TB is known for the accuracy, are you as confident Dead Air's?
The suppressor's designed function adds absolutely ZERO accuracy to an inaccurate rifle, so calling a suppressor a "precision suppressor" really isn't a proper designation, since it's entire function is to make your gun quieter, not more or less accurate. If your gun is inaccurate before suppressing, adding a suppressor just means you quietly shoot inaccurately. 🤣 If your gun shoots really well before, then you're going to most-likely still shoot really well after screwing on the can...

The fact people still buy the whole "precision rifle suppressor" line is hilarious. With modern baffle and production technology, any decently-engineered high-quality suppressor from a well-known company is going to produce solid results. Buy what you want, it's your money, but don't read too much bullshit on the internet...It turns your mind to mush.
 
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The suppressor's designed function adds absolutely ZERO accuracy to an inaccurate rifle, so calling a suppressor a "precision suppressor" really isn't a proper designation, since it's entire function is to make your gun quieter, not more or less accurate. If your gun is inaccurate before suppressing, adding a suppressor just means you quietly shoot inaccurately. 🤣 If your gun shoots really well before, then you're going to most-likely still shoot really well after screwing on the can...

The fact people still buy the whole "precision rifle suppressor" line is hilarious. With modern baffle and production technology, any decently-engineered high-quality suppressor from a well-known company is going to produce solid results. Buy what you want, it's your money, but don't read too much bullshit on the internet...It turns your mind to mush.

Certain designs are inherently more accurate. Certain suppressors are used in prs for a reason. Most precision rifle silencers do not take back pressure into consideration. They also don't clip the first baffle as it has shown to have a negative effect on accuracy vs leaving it unclipped. Precision rifle silencers and even some silencers not marketed as a precision have shown consistent increases to accuracy.
 
I am looking to add a suppressor to my active lineup.
This will be mounted on my 7mm rem mag.
i am open to ideas and options. I currently have and use a DeadAir Sandman L and Rugged Surge. These have other primary rifles they live on but I cant ignore my 7mm. So I am debating for the top 2 on my list of DeadAir Nomad-Ti and the Thunderbeast Ultra 9. Need some input here.

Goal is getting the suppressor under 140db for hunting, quality suppressor from a quality company, reduce recoil. Needs to stay on and not mess with things as I hump it all over the mountain side for a week at a time, occasionally falling down the mountain side with me or eating dirt as I erm, gracefully wipeout. 😅🤣

@Zak Smith TBAC Guy
@TBACRAY
@MudRunner2005

Edit: By me at 2300 10th September 2021 I literally just ran across this by accident.
CGS Hyperion

TBAC has been the gold standard in prs for a reason.

Another option if you feel like supporting a smaller business is otter creek labs. They are currently the 2nd quietest suppressor on 308 tested by pewscience.

But tbh for your particular use I wouldn't necessarily worry about getting a precision rifle can. Hunting isn't somewhere you'd notice the difference. You would notice the weight and length. Personally I'd be going with a very lightweight suppressor. The Nomad ti or upcoming cgs helios ti qd. The Nomad is slightly lighter, the cgs will be stronger and quieter. If length and a few more oz doesn't matter to you and you want the quietest you already linked a review to it. The Nomad LT is another great option and is an inch shorter and a couple oz lighter. For me personally I'd wait for the cgs helios ti qd.
 
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Certain designs are inherently more accurate. Certain suppressors are used in prs for a reason. Most precision rifle silencers do not take back pressure into consideration. They also don't clip the first baffle as it has shown to have a negative effect on accuracy vs leaving it unclipped. Precision rifle silencers and even some silencers not marketed as a precision have shown consistent increases to accuracy.
There is absolutely NOTHING in the firearms world that is "inherently accurate". "Inherently accurate" was the worst misnomer and fallacy ever contributed to the firearms industry. ANY weapon chambered for any cartridge can be accurate if it's built from high-quality parts, by a skilled artisan, with consistent ammo...Provided the nut behind the trigger can pull their own weight in the accuracy algorithm.

Are their more EFFICIENT baffle designs for making them quieter, sure... But inherently more accurate is a load of shit. It's a suppressor, not a rifled portion of the barrel that contacts the bullet. Yes, I know it can affect the gasses pushing the bullet as it expels from the muzzle. 20 years ago, sure, this might have been a viable argument, but like I said, these days most any high-quality and well-engineered suppressor these days is going to produce damn-near identical results.

Just my opinion...
 
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There is absolutely NOTHING in the firearms world that is "inherently accurate". "Inherently accurate" was the worst misnomer and fallacy ever contributed to the firearms industry. ANY weapon chambered for any cartridge can be accurate if it's built from high-quality parts, by a skilled artisan, with consistent ammo...Provided the nut behind the trigger can pull their own weight in the accuracy algorithm.

Are their more EFFICIENT baffle designs for making them quieter, sure... But inherently more accurate is a load of shit. It's a suppressor, not a rifled portion of the barrel that contacts the bullet. Yes, I know it can affect the gasses pushing the bullet as it expels from the muzzle. 20 years ago, sure, this might have been a viable argument, but like I said, these days most any high-quality and well-engineered suppressor these days is going to produce damn-near identical results.

Just my opinion...

Lol so all things being equal from a quality standpoint your belief is that bore diameter, symmetrical vs asymmetrical baffle design, baffle design, clipping , mount, etc there is no such thing as one design being consistently more accurate than another?

Well your opinion is wrong and not based on anything. People actually test and r&d this stuff. If every manufacturer is putting out near identical results why is tbac by far the most popular suppressor used in prs?

You literally have the designer of cgs suppressors in this thread making statements like this:

All properly designed long range precision rifle silencers will have a symmetrical blast chamber/baffle, and all others that claim to be precision rifle silencers which don't, definitely should.

Now why would that be?
 
Lol so all things being equal from a quality standpoint your belief is that bore diameter, symmetrical vs asymmetrical baffle design, baffle design, clipping , mount, etc there is no such thing as one design being consistently more accurate than another?

Well your opinion is wrong and not based on anything. People actually test and r&d this stuff. If every manufacturer is putting out near identical results why is tbac by far the most popular suppressor used in prs?

You literally have the designer of cgs suppressors in this thread making statements like this:



Now why would that be?
I feel like it can affect sound and decibel level, gas dispersion, etc... But I don't think any of that means shit to do with accuracy, being that a suppressor is not a tool designed to improve accuracy and never touches the bullet. And inaccurate rifle will still be inaccurate with a suppressor on the end. By your logic, you can take a 2 MOA rifle and stick a TBAC on it, and it "should" shoot sub-MOA simply because the suppressor is "inherently accurate" therefore by the transitive property, it magically improved the accuracy of the shitty firearm.

My opinion is my opinion when it comes to the suppressor designs. But "inherent accuracy" has been factually-proven to not exist when it comes to firearms.

Why would that be? That's the dumbest question ever... 9/10 scientists agree with whoever is writing them the checks to achieve the results they are wanting to get. Why would a company owner claim that his product is inferior to another company's products? That's not a good advertising model. 😂
 
Contrary option-

To heck with an 8-9" can on a 7mm rem mag mountain gun. I doubt your 7 mag has a < 20" barrel so a big long can will be a massive ass pain.

Get a tbac ultra 5 and wear ear pro at the range.

I chop my hunting guns at 16" and still think even a 7" ultra 7 flirts with too long.

I have a nomad L and honestly wish it was easier to sell it- not because of it's performance, just because I always reach for k cans instead as I wear ears for the sonic crack anyhow, and when I shoot my handful of deer a year I'm fine for that limited exposure.

I just don't enjoy the whole 2x4 musket balance thing on a walk about rifle.

Now a tripod / bench only gun is a whole different matter.
 
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Contrary option-

To heck with an 8-9" can on a 7mm rem mag mountain gun. I doubt your 7 mag has a < 20" barrel so a big long can will be a massive ass pain.

Get a tbac ultra 5 and wear ear pro at the range.

I chop my hunting guns at 16" and still think even a 7" ultra 7 flirts with too long.

I have a nomad L and honestly wish it was easier to sell it- not because of it's performance, just because I always reach for k cans instead as I wear ears for the sonic crack anyhow, and when I shoot my handful of deer a year I'm fine for that limited exposure.

I just don't enjoy the whole 2x4 musket balance thing on a walk about rifle.

Now a tripod / bench only gun is a whole different matter.
I chopped my 24” 30-06 down to a 20” 280 Ackley. Running the Ultra 9 now but an Ultra 7 gen 2 is in jail for it.
 
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I feel like it can affect sound and decibel level, gas dispersion, etc... But I don't think any of that means shit to do with accuracy, being that a suppressor is not a tool to improve accuracy. One of those designs might work better in a particular can design, but not in another design... So, that means it isn't foolproof enough to claim "inherent accuracy".

My opinion is my opinion when it comes to the suppressor designs. But "inherent accuracy" has been factually-proven to not exist when it comes to firearms.

Why would that be? That's the dumbest question ever... 9/10 scientists agree with whoever is writing them the checks to achieve the results they are wanting to get. Why would a company owner claim that his product is inferior to another company's products? That's not a good advertising model. 😂


Lmao inherently more accurate has been proven not to exist? So all the prs guys using single point cut heavy profile barrels could have been getting the same level of accuracy from a hammer forged pencil barrel?

The quote of his was in regards to the current suppressors (not just his) designed and marketed as a precision rifle suppressor. Why would they make that choice?

Jay of pewscience
GgP3ev6.jpg


Jay has talked about suppressors accuracy in the past. While he doesn't test that he is aware as many others are that suppressors have differences in terms of accuracy.


Thunderbeast: "Accuracy is our number one priority. During different phases of assembly and construction, we tune the suppressor to ensure the highest accuracy potential can be realized by that individual suppressor. Besides perfect bore alignment, our suppressors incorporate other specific design features that support accuracy. Aspects of our baffle design and overall construction are used specifically for accuracy even though they increase manufacturing costs."

So you're saying tbac is full of shit and what they do has absolutely zero impact on accuracy?
 
Lmao inherently more accurate has been proven not to exist? So all the prs guys using single point cut heavy profile barrels could have been getting the same level of accuracy from a hammer forged pencil barrel?

The quote of his was in regards to the current suppressors (not just his) designed and marketed as a precision rifle suppressor. Why would they make that choice?

Jay of pewscience
GgP3ev6.jpg


Jay has talked about suppressors accuracy in the past. While he doesn't test that he is aware as many others are that suppressors have differences in terms of accuracy.


Thunderbeast: "Accuracy is our number one priority. During different phases of assembly and construction, we tune the suppressor to ensure the highest accuracy potential can be realized by that individual suppressor. Besides perfect bore alignment, our suppressors incorporate other specific design features that support accuracy. Aspects of our baffle design and overall construction are used specifically for accuracy even though they increase manufacturing costs."

So you're saying tbac is full of shit and what they do has absolutely zero impact on accuracy?
You're not understanding what accuracy is, and once you do, you will realize that nothing is "inherently accurate". Accuracy is the ability to repeatedly perform an exact scenario on demand. This circumstance is achieved through a series of precision tasks by both the shooter and the weapon system and ammunition.

What you are referring to when comparing an ultra high-end cut-rifled barrel vs. a button-rifled factory barrel is not "inherent accuracy"...It's higher quality through precision tolerance and QC that leads to a more consistent product that attributes to the accuracy algorithm. Thus being "inherently consistent". YOU, as the shooter, plays the biggest factor in accuracy. It doesn't matter if you have a $1,000 rig, or a custom $10,000 setup, if YOU, as the shooter, can't shoot sub-MOA, you won't ever be accurate. The gun can only shoot as ACCURATELY as you can.

Once again, I never said they were wrong. I even mentioned that I could see how the gasses exiting the muzzle behind the bullet could affect flight in the suppressor (go back and look), all I ever said was that nothing was "inherently accurate". That term is a misnomer, and should not ever be used in the firearms world. And also I said that in real-world scenarios, any high-end can would perform to the OP's desired task. Whether it shaves a 1/16" off the group size at 100 yards, when in a hunting scenario, that will equal up to approximately jack-shit until you start getting past 1,000 yards.
 
You're not understanding what accuracy is, and once you do, you will realize that nothing is "inherently accurate". Accuracy is the ability to repeatedly perform an exact scenario on demand. This circumstance is achieved through a series of precision tasks by both the shooter and the weapon system and ammunition.

What you are referring to when comparing an ultra high-end cut-rifled barrel vs. a button-rifled factory barrel is not "inherent accuracy"...It's higher quality through precision tolerance and QC that leads to a more consistent product that attributes to the accuracy algorithm. Thus being "inherently consistent". YOU, as the shooter, plays the biggest factor in accuracy. It doesn't matter if you have a $1,000 rig, or a custom $10,000 setup, if YOU, as the shooter, can't shoot sub-MOA, you won't ever be accurate. The gun can only shoot as ACCURATELY as you can.

Once again, I never said they were wrong. I even mentioned that I could see how the gasses exiting the muzzle behind the bullet could affect flight in the suppressor (go back and look), all I ever said was that nothing was "inherently accurate". That term is a misnomer, and should not ever be used in the firearms world. And also I said that in real-world scenarios, any high-end can would perform to the OP's desired task. Whether it shaves a 1/16" off the group size at 100 yards, when in a hunting scenario, that will equal up to approximately jack-shit until you start getting past 1,000 yards.

So we are arguing the semantics over using the word inherently accurate vs inherently consistent? Okay so be it barrels, bullet design, suppressors, etc some designs have shown to be more inherently consistent in the realm of accuracy potential? Whatever.

When I speak to accuracy I'm removing the shooter. I'm talking about the products potential, not the shooter.

"The fact people still buy the whole "precision rifle suppressor" line is hilarious."

I took issue with this as certain cans are literally designed with accuracy in mind and have shown to consistently provide better results for precision rifle shooters vs some other suppressors. Also precision rifle silencers may not be a great choice on all hosts as many generally have much higher back pressure. In fact the top 3 performing suppressors tested by pewscience are all stated as precision rifle suppressors and all have significantly higher back pressure than others tested. The ballistic magazine test posted above (btw I don't know the testing parameters and how many groups were done so I don't put much stock into it) for example showed a .281" difference between 1st and last. For hunting it's not significant but for prs it's massive. Again I'm not saying those results are accurate but if there is a gap between suppressors that large it is significant for some people and their application.

"And also I said that in real-world scenarios, any high-end can would perform to the OP's desired task."

I pretty much stated the same thing.

TBAC has been the gold standard in prs for a reason.

Another option if you feel like supporting a smaller business is otter creek labs. They are currently the 2nd quietest suppressor on 308 tested by pewscience.

But tbh for your particular use I wouldn't necessarily worry about getting a precision rifle can. Hunting isn't somewhere you'd notice the difference. You would notice the weight and length. Personally I'd be going with a very lightweight suppressor. The Nomad ti or upcoming cgs helios ti qd. The Nomad is slightly lighter, the cgs will be stronger and quieter. If length and a few more oz doesn't matter to you and you want the quietest you already linked a review to it. The Nomad LT is another great option and is an inch shorter and a couple oz lighter. For me personally I'd wait for the cgs helios ti qd.
 
MudRunner, I see your point about "inherently accurate" being overused. But the fact is, that attaching a suppressor can affect accuracy. The referenced Ballistic magazine article above documents that effect. I am sure it's not the greatest scientific study, but it is one data point (among others) that suggests that suppressors affect accuracy. So it is not outlandish to say that certain brands make more or less accurate suppressors.
 
MudRunner, I see your point about "inherently accurate" being overused. But the fact is, that attaching a suppressor can affect accuracy. The referenced Ballistic magazine article above documents that effect. I am sure it's not the greatest scientific study, but it is one data point (among others) that suggests that suppressors affect accuracy. So it is not outlandish to say that certain brands make more or less accurate suppressors.
I agree, and if you read all my posts, I say the exact same thing.

People just don’t like being called-out when they repeat stupid things they heard some numbnuts behind a gun counter at Bass Pro Shops say, or something they read on the internet by a “professional”. Which is why this got heated. People assume due to my post count that I don’t know what I’m talking about, which is never a safe bet. I never make assumptions about anyone on here, but everyone loves to about me, since I’m outspoken about hot-button topics, and not afraid to call industry giants out on their BS. I’m a nobody, and I bought everything I have out of my own pocket, and I’m not affiliated with anyone or any company. Therefore, I’m not afraid to be unbiased, even if I bought something and was disappointed in it, I’m still going to tell the truth about it if I think it’s a POS. 👍🏼
 
I agree, and if you read all my posts, I say the exact same thing.

People just don’t like being called-out when they repeat stupid things they heard some numbnuts behind a gun counter at Bass Pro Shops say, or something they read on the internet by a “professional”. Which is why this got heated. People assume due to my post count that I don’t know what I’m talking about, which is never a safe bet. I never make assumptions about anyone on here, but everyone loves to about me, since I’m outspoken about hot-button topics, and not afraid to call industry giants out on their BS. I’m a nobody, and I bought everything I have out of my own pocket, and I’m not affiliated with anyone or any company. Therefore, I’m not afraid to be unbiased, even if I bought something and was disappointed in it, I’m still going to tell the truth about it if I think it’s a POS. 👍🏼

If you think I've even once looked at someone's post count as a meaning for anything( I don't even check it) you'd be wrong. I'm also not making assumptions about you nor do I have any ill will towards you. I don't know you. This is just a conversation in which we disagree on something. We could agree on something in another thread. We actually already agreed with each other in one aspect of our conversation, essentially the recommendation of what the op should get.

Having said that you repeatedly said suppressors don't have shit to do with accuracy. You said I know the gasses could affect the bullet but that's only a viable argument 20 years ago. There was a test posted itt show performance better than bare muzzle and worse(again I don't put much stock into it, it's just an example). If certain suppressors and design features consistently show better results than the bare muzzle and they also show better results than other suppressors, what would you describe that as? Instead of saying inherently I could use this term. Just drop the word inherently and use more or consistent? Certain design choices such as a symmetrical blast baffle have shown better results in poi shift and accuracy compared to other designs. That matters for some people and their application. Such as prs.

I understand where you are coming from with the term inherently. Because some random idiot making a suppressor with a symmetrical blast baffle or single point cut barrel that doesn't mean it will be a good set up. A shitty gunsmith assembling and bedding won't make an accurate gun. But I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant from my examples and saying all things being equal.

You didn't like me using an example of a high end single point cut vs chf. You had to say I don't understand what accuracy is. Then you had to play some semantics game by saying that these are only more inherently consistent because of the quality put into them and that attributes to accuracy increases. Imo it's basically a round about way of saying the same thing. If you were to take the highest quality most accurate bolt guns and the highest quality most accurate semi autos and compare them, you would see that bolt guns are consistently more accurate. You could almost conclude that the system is inherently more accurate, especially if you prefaced it with all things being equal from a quality standpoint. But because you can use an example of a .5 moa semi auto vs some $350 pos that isn't sub moa you can technically say that a bolt action isn't inherently more accurate. But again, I'm pretty certain you knew what I meant.

But to the entire point, a precision rifle silencer, properly done, will be designed and manufactured with the intent to reduce poi shift, enhance or offer 0 penalty to accuracy. Whereas some other designs may be much more focused on signature reduction, suppression, durability, etc and not care as much about poi shift or a small penalty to accuracy. I don't think anyone is claiming a suppressor will magically turn a turd into a diamond or make a dogshit shooter good. But some have shown to enhance a quality firearms performance and that calling these suppressors precision rifle suppressors isn't a line of bs. For some companies it actually means something. It was designed with that usage and accuracy in mind. It also may not be the best option on other types of rifles. Usually their biggest con is significant back pressure.
 
I am looking to add a suppressor to my active lineup.
This will be mounted on my 7mm rem mag.
i am open to ideas and options. I currently have and use a DeadAir Sandman L and Rugged Surge. These have other primary rifles they live on but I cant ignore my 7mm. So I am debating for the top 2 on my list of DeadAir Nomad-Ti and the Thunderbeast Ultra 9. Need some input here.

Goal is getting the suppressor under 140db for hunting, quality suppressor from a quality company, reduce recoil. Needs to stay on and not mess with things as I hump it all over the mountain side for a week at a time, occasionally falling down the mountain side with me or eating dirt as I erm, gracefully wipeout. 😅🤣
TBAC Ultra 9 Gen 2 is the best option considering your criteria. Top suppression while maintaining smaller dimensions, important for a hunting rifle. Also consider the Ultra 7 Gen 2 which should also meet your requirements.
 
Suppressors can absolutely affect accuracy, as can anything that changes barrel harmonics. I personally have ammo that shot fairly mediocre out of my ULW Kidd barreled 10/22, but shoots lights out with my particular can. But it has nothing to do with the suppressor being accurate, or improving accuracy, and everything to do with barrel harmonics.

That being said, suppressors do somewhat mimic extra barrel length (slightly higher velocity suppressed vs. unsupressed), so it's possible at least that the forces of the gas inside the can are stabilizing the bullet for a slightly longer time than when unsuppressed. But I have no idea if that's ever been tested or not. And it's a total guess on my part as stated.
 
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I think I'd go with an Ultra 5 for a your purposes. It will take the edge off and not be prohibitive in length. They do a really good job for their size.
 
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Lmao inherently more accurate has been proven not to exist? So all the prs guys using single point cut heavy profile barrels could have been getting the same level of accuracy from a hammer forged pencil barrel?

The quote of his was in regards to the current suppressors (not just his) designed and marketed as a precision rifle suppressor. Why would they make that choice?

Jay of pewscience
GgP3ev6.jpg


Jay has talked about suppressors accuracy in the past. While he doesn't test that he is aware as many others are that suppressors have differences in terms of accuracy.


Thunderbeast: "Accuracy is our number one priority. During different phases of assembly and construction, we tune the suppressor to ensure the highest accuracy potential can be realized by that individual suppressor. Besides perfect bore alignment, our suppressors incorporate other specific design features that support accuracy. Aspects of our baffle design and overall construction are used specifically for accuracy even though they increase manufacturing costs."

So you're saying tbac is full of shit and what they do has absolutely zero impact on accuracy?

@TBACRAY
@Zak Smith

Any thoughts?
 
I am looking to add a suppressor to my active lineup.
This will be mounted on my 7mm rem mag.
i am open to ideas and options. I currently have and use a DeadAir Sandman L and Rugged Surge. These have other primary rifles they live on but I cant ignore my 7mm. So I am debating for the top 2 on my list of DeadAir Nomad-Ti and the Thunderbeast Ultra 9. Need some input here.

Goal is getting the suppressor under 140db for hunting, quality suppressor from a quality company, reduce recoil. Needs to stay on and not mess with things as I hump it all over the mountain side for a week at a time, occasionally falling down the mountain side with me or eating dirt as I erm, gracefully wipeout. 😅🤣

@Zak Smith TBAC Guy
@TBACRAY
@MudRunner2005

Edit: By me at 2300 10th September 2021 I literally just ran across this by accident.
CGS Hyperion


I would also check out the KGM R30. It's 7.3" and 10.1 oz. It has the apec brake which is pretty awesome. You can open or close each individual port on the brake.

c4d59b_3d2eaa48ca494934a54235fa189f3156~mv2.jpg


APEC brake in action

aXekrS3.jpg



https://kgm-tech.com/r30-suppressor/

KGM oems for a few companies, biggest name is probably Dead Air.
 
Suppressors can absolutely affect accuracy, as can anything that changes barrel harmonics. I personally have ammo that shot fairly mediocre out of my ULW Kidd barreled 10/22, but shoots lights out with my particular can. But it has nothing to do with the suppressor being accurate, or improving accuracy, and everything to do with barrel harmonics.

That being said, suppressors do somewhat mimic extra barrel length (slightly higher velocity suppressed vs. unsupressed), so it's possible at least that the forces of the gas inside the can are stabilizing the bullet for a slightly longer time than when unsuppressed. But I have no idea if that's ever been tested or not. And it's a total guess on my part as stated.
Yes, barrel harmonics cause most of the changes, but [***I believe***] it has nothing to do with the blast baffle being concentric or clipped (in my non-professional opinion).

And yes, you do get a slight bit of "suppressor boost", tests show usually 10-15 FPS on average...But it's nothing to write home about.

Just my non-professional opinions based on my own research and experiences... Once again, take them or leave them. Your choice.
 
Yes, barrel harmonics cause most of the changes, but [***I believe***] it has nothing to do with the blast baffle being concentric or clipped (in my non-professional opinion).

And yes, you do get a slight bit of "suppressor boost", tests show usually 10-15 FPS on average...But it's nothing to write home about.

Just my non-professional opinions based on my own research and experiences... Once again, take them or leave them. Your choice.

Whether the blast baffle is clipped, and how it is clipped (single vs. double clips) most definitely affects POI shift. This has been proven in the Form 1 world time and again. That being said, it does not affect overall accuracy. My .30cal can is single clipped, I use an alignment rod to line my clips up the same way every time, and good QD setup for repeatable POI. But, I'm no long range guru.
 
If someone wanted to generate content for social media, testing this aspect of suppressor/host performance might be more novel and unique than yet another channel trying to convince me that an iPhone/GoPro mic + lossy YouTube audio compression + my laptop speakers will accurately represent suppressor sound quality.
 
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I think I'd go with an Ultra 5 for a your purposes. It will take the edge off and not be prohibitive in length. They do a really good job for their size.
I've given serious consideration to buying a Gen 2 Ultra 5, mainly for use on several custom barreled Howa Mini rifles, with chamberings from 20 Tactical, 223AI, 22 Grendel, 6 RAT, & 6.5 Grendel. I've been using my original Ultra 7 on these rifles with good results, it's just that the shorter/lighter Ultra 5 has its own appeal on these light rifles. But I've got a Gen 2 Ultra 7 w/6.5 aperture in jail, and will probably wait to see how I get along with it before jumping on another purchase & looong form 4 wait. If they weren't on the NFA list, it'd be so easy to buy, experiment, and maybe re-sell suppressors - there are a lot of makes & models I'd like to try, but having just turned 70yrs old, it's getting more difficult to convince myself it's worth the wait to try another one...lol
 
If someone wanted to generate content for social media, testing this aspect of suppressor/host performance might be more novel and unique than yet another channel trying to convince me that an iPhone/GoPro mic + lossy YouTube audio compression + my laptop speakers will accurately represent suppressor sound quality.
Back at ya. 🖕🏼 I also never once said my shit was scientific... I have, however, stated it was for fun and entertainment purposes only. So, yeah, if you don't like it, don't watch...But judging by how you can't let this go, I'm already living rent-free in your mind. So, I guess the hard work is done. 🤣
 
Back at ya. 🖕🏼 I also never once said my shit was scientific... I have, however, stated it was for fun and entertainment purposes only. So, yeah, if you don't like it, don't watch...But judging by how you can't let this go, I'm already living rent-free in your mind. So, I guess the hard work is done. 🤣
So after all your ignorant bullshit you laugh it off as having been all for "fun and entertainment purposes only" after being shown wrong, repeatedly, and then try to still bs your way out of it. What a Tool. :sleep:
 
So after all your ignorant bullshit you laugh it off as having been all for "fun and entertainment purposes only" after being shown wrong, repeatedly, and then try to still bs your way out of it. What a Tool. :sleep:
No, he's mocking my YouTube videos. Not that this conversation was for fun and games, that my YT videos were. Try to pay attention and keep up...It's not real difficult.
 
I have had a Hyperion in jail for 9 months for my 28 Nosler, it came highly recommended. I have also been waiting for a TB Dominus to get to my dealer for the last 9 months FWIW.
 
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I have a Hybrid 46 by Silencerco. I have been most please with the suppression, the accuracy, and the adaptability of this unit. Works well on a .22-250, a .308 Win, as well as .45-70 and .44 Magnum.

There may be a better dedicated unit, but the changeable front caps and direct thread rear caps make it really versatile. Only thing I like better is my integral built by Liberty.
 
Those TBAC cans that the guys use at the match in Raton are stupid fkn quiet.
I'm seriously thinking of getting either the 5" or the ultra 7. The 5" is in the lead merely for hunting purposes.

So what can do you use Mudrunner?, ....
I have 2 30 cal Silencertech cans and a 5.56 Silencertech can also.
And as for the accuracy issue goes, I have seen better esults with the rifles suppressed vs unsupressed.
Rifles are like load data,
If you have shot going in you will have shit coming out. Therefore it's kind of important to have a great shooting rifle to start with.
Now if I can only figure out the damn wind calls....🤣😂
 
Those TBAC cans that the guys use at the match in Raton are stupid fkn quiet.
I'm seriously thinking of getting either the 5" or the ultra 7. The 5" is in the lead merely for hunting purposes.

So what can do you use Mudrunner?, ....
I have 2 30 cal Silencertech cans and a 5.56 Silencertech can also.
And as for the accuracy issue goes, I have seen better esults with the rifles suppressed vs unsupressed.
Rifles are like load data,
If you have shot going in you will have shit coming out. Therefore it's kind of important to have a great shooting rifle to start with.
Now if I can only figure out the damn wind calls....🤣😂
What cans do I have? I have a Dead Air Nomad-LT, Dead Air Mask HD, Rugged Obsidian 45, Dead Air Sandman-S MIL-Contract, and a regular Dead Air Sandman-S. I know that makes me look biased towards 1 company, but I'm not. They just happen to make high-quality suppressors that fit my needs, and their customer service is great. So if I'm spending my money, I stick to companies that fit that bill.

I do plan on branching out to other brands in the future, to add to my collection...Like Rex Silentium, Otter Creek, Energetic Armament, CGS, and if it's even possible at all to find a direct-thread 5/8x24 TBAC Ultra 7, 9, or Dominus then maybe, but I'm not a fan of their proprietary mounting system not having 1.375x24 threads. If they would fix that, it would significantly increase their sales.

I've seen equal results suppressed and unsuppressed. Like I said earlier, and you repeated... If a rifle shoots good unsuppressed, it's most likely going to shoot just as good suppressed. I think barrel harmonics from the added weight of the can hanging off the end, affects POI shift more than anything. I'm not a scientist, but I have been shooting guns my entire life and some things are pretty common knowledge. And yes, the inaccurate rifle/ammo part was exactly what I was getting at.

Just to set the record straight, since maybe I didn't explain it well-enough before...

MY PERSONAL OPINION IS that the suppressor actually "improving accuracy" part only affects the bullet's flight pattern, and not the gun's ability itself. So, the accuracy improving part of the equation is SO small (typically around 0.125" from what was said earlier), then your average person in normal shooting/hunting situations will never notice the difference in performance of a "precision rifle suppressor" vs. a standard suppressor with a non-concentric blast baffle.

That's why I was saying it was BS. Not that it doesn't exist, and not that it doesn't improve the bullet's consistency, just that it's such a small factor, that it's almost like it doesn't, when you take the PRS and comp shooters out of the equation, because they're looking for tiny groups and shooting aggregate scales. Your average hunter is just happy when he and his rifle can consistently put 3 rounds under 1" at 100 yards. And if his TBAC helps him shoot a 0.90" group instead of a 1.00" group one time, the odds are his very next group won't even be consistent, or he'll pull a shot and have a flier. I've met the average hunter/shooter... They're not the most prolific shooters. They don't tend to shoot anywhere NEAR enough in a year to get remotely near the level of accuracy and consistency of a PRS or match shooter that trains all year long. So, to the average person, the whole "precision" thing doesn't really mean all that much...More of a warm fuzzy feeling.

But if your average joe blow shooter hears a term like "precision rifle suppressor" they will think it is going to actually improve their rifle's accuracy much more dramatically, than it actually does, instead of enhancing it. So, to your average shooter, it's more of a marketing gimmick, than an actual improvement in equipment.

That's all I was saying, and it was all my own opinion, but everyone got all butthurt and wanted to jump on this "you don't know shit about shit" train. And it's fucking irritating. 🙄