Has anyone shot these or have any experience with them? I’m looking at getting my first long range gun and they seem to have good reviews, I have about 1200 all in, I was looking at these, mossberg lc, howa oryx, howa Australian, or savage axis ii percison, I was also going to look at used at lgs.
- Thread starter aping46052
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Soooooo......
Can we ask why you would chose this as your first?
Start reading all the past conversations over the next 2 weeks and then ask again.
Can we ask why you would chose this as your first?
Start reading all the past conversations over the next 2 weeks and then ask again.
Questions.
1) first rifle for what exactly? Long range is a very broad term.
2) what caliber?
3) does the budget include scope? Cause if so I'd get a Bushnell DMR 2 on sale right now at Camera Land thru Doug and shoot a box stock what ever you can get is 6.5 creed(it sickens me to say that) and shoot the barrel out.
1) first rifle for what exactly? Long range is a very broad term.
2) what caliber?
3) does the budget include scope? Cause if so I'd get a Bushnell DMR 2 on sale right now at Camera Land thru Doug and shoot a box stock what ever you can get is 6.5 creed(it sickens me to say that) and shoot the barrel out.
Ok, just looked up the sabatti urban sniper. I am 100% out on that. The stock looks no bueno. For that money you are at Tikka CTR, Howa in a chassis, used good barreled action in a KRG Bravo. I would guide you away from savage and sabatti. A tikka you can grow with. It has a after market. I know a Sabatti takes a lot of remington stuff, but then just get a remington.
I'd have to agree with moosemeat, his questions are ones you should consider first, then I'd ask why the Sabatti? The stock looks like a cheap abomination of some idiots idea of what "snipery" looks like, and if something isn't right, hardly anyone in this country can support it, for that matter hardly anyone in this country has even heard of Sabatti. Tons of people are running the Tikka CTR for good reason, they are reasonably priced, reliable, accurate, and have good support.
Those running Howas seem to have reasonably good results. Every Savage that I have ever seen at a precision rifle match has jammed up at some point so even though people say they're accurate, if they won't run reliably, I don't care how accurate they are.
Those running Howas seem to have reasonably good results. Every Savage that I have ever seen at a precision rifle match has jammed up at some point so even though people say they're accurate, if they won't run reliably, I don't care how accurate they are.
I'm going to take a step back and ask you what you are trying to do, what are you trying to achieve? As someone else state, "long range gun" is an extremely broad term. Some people consider AR-15s to be 25-200 yard weapon systems and think that 400 yards is "long range", while others are measuring their targets in miles.
Budget - you say $1200 all in. Explain "all in". Is that your budget for just the gun, or for the entire weapon system? Shooting long range requires a lot more than a gun. Gun, scope, rings/mount, range-finder, case/bag, book/pen, rear-bag. If you want repeatable performance and the ability to actually hit things when you go back to the range, you're going to need to choose a round and stick with it so you can work up DOPE and have it actually mean something. Those things are just the beginning. Not necessary but helpful is a good ballistics app, chrono, Kestrel or other weather station, spotting scope. Cartridge? How much have you budgeted for ammo? How much do you plan to shoot? 6.5 Creedmoor will get you out to 1200 yards easily, but it's almost $2 per round and the barrels last 2,000 to 2,500 rounds before you need to ship the rifle off to be rebarreled. .308 is much harder to get out past 1000 yards and requires far more wind-calling skills to make good hits at distant but the price is closer to $1 per round and the barrels last 5K rounds. .338 Lapua will get you out well past a mile but the cheapest factory ammo is $5 per round.
A gun is a tool, and as with all tools, you need the right tool for the job. Don't come and ask us about which tool to buy, you need to tell us what the job is. Then we can get you sorted.
Budget - you say $1200 all in. Explain "all in". Is that your budget for just the gun, or for the entire weapon system? Shooting long range requires a lot more than a gun. Gun, scope, rings/mount, range-finder, case/bag, book/pen, rear-bag. If you want repeatable performance and the ability to actually hit things when you go back to the range, you're going to need to choose a round and stick with it so you can work up DOPE and have it actually mean something. Those things are just the beginning. Not necessary but helpful is a good ballistics app, chrono, Kestrel or other weather station, spotting scope. Cartridge? How much have you budgeted for ammo? How much do you plan to shoot? 6.5 Creedmoor will get you out to 1200 yards easily, but it's almost $2 per round and the barrels last 2,000 to 2,500 rounds before you need to ship the rifle off to be rebarreled. .308 is much harder to get out past 1000 yards and requires far more wind-calling skills to make good hits at distant but the price is closer to $1 per round and the barrels last 5K rounds. .338 Lapua will get you out well past a mile but the cheapest factory ammo is $5 per round.
A gun is a tool, and as with all tools, you need the right tool for the job. Don't come and ask us about which tool to buy, you need to tell us what the job is. Then we can get you sorted.
I had to google SABATTI URBAN SNIPER - which I'm guessing was the whole point of this post.
I was hoping in 308, if I can get to a 1000 yards. 1200-1500 for rifle, scope, tripod. In Indiana I probably won’t shoot that much over the winter. During the spring summer and fall when the outdoor ranges are open I would like to shoot about 100 rounds per month minimum.
Okay thanks for the feedback. I get my bonus the end of the week I’ll see what I can find in a tikka in 308.
Since you are starting from scratch, why 308? Before the current ammo shortage, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo was just as available as 308 and was cheaper. The recoil of 6.5 CM is between a 223 and a 308 and the wind drift and drop is 30%-40% less than the 308. I shot a 308 in precision rifle for 15 years before switching to 6.5 CM and now I only use the 308 for practice days when I want to shoot a harder to shoot well rifle.
If I were you, I'd be looking for Remington 700s, Tikka T3s, Savage SAs, and Howa 1500s. Those actions have the best after-market support as far as chassis systems and stocks already inletted to fit them. You want something with a factory heavy barrel. If you can find used, that would be great because it would free you up some cash for the scope.
My bare minimum for a scope is something first focal plane (FFP), reticle and turrets in mils (MRAD), it must have parallax adjustment, and a zero stop. I'm not up on all brands of scopes (I'm mainly a Leupold guy), but I believe the Vortex Strike Eagle is one of the least expensive scopes on the market that ticks all of those boxes, but at $700, it puts a big squeeze on your rifle budget.
Actually, I just looked at SWFA and it appears that this Athlon has all of the features I would need for a lot less money: https://www.swfa.com/athlon-6-24x50-argos-btr-gen-2-30mm-riflescope.html?___SID=U
That doesn't leave much left over if anything at all, for rings and a bipod. For the bipod, I have the Magpul bipod on my son's .223 and @ $100 I think its a great value and a really well put together piece of kit. I would definitely pick up a Vortex bubble level, they run about $35 on Amazon.
I still think you're short a lot. You still have no case, no Kestrel, no range finder, no shooting matte, no rear bag (if you can sew, I made mine for about $6, the biggest expense was the fish-tank rocks I used as filler). But you can save up and pick those up later.
Best of luck, let us know what you end up going with.
My bare minimum for a scope is something first focal plane (FFP), reticle and turrets in mils (MRAD), it must have parallax adjustment, and a zero stop. I'm not up on all brands of scopes (I'm mainly a Leupold guy), but I believe the Vortex Strike Eagle is one of the least expensive scopes on the market that ticks all of those boxes, but at $700, it puts a big squeeze on your rifle budget.
Actually, I just looked at SWFA and it appears that this Athlon has all of the features I would need for a lot less money: https://www.swfa.com/athlon-6-24x50-argos-btr-gen-2-30mm-riflescope.html?___SID=U
That doesn't leave much left over if anything at all, for rings and a bipod. For the bipod, I have the Magpul bipod on my son's .223 and @ $100 I think its a great value and a really well put together piece of kit. I would definitely pick up a Vortex bubble level, they run about $35 on Amazon.
I still think you're short a lot. You still have no case, no Kestrel, no range finder, no shooting matte, no rear bag (if you can sew, I made mine for about $6, the biggest expense was the fish-tank rocks I used as filler). But you can save up and pick those up later.
Best of luck, let us know what you end up going with.
Some of you guys are pushing more kit than is really necessary to get started.
Minimum for known distance:
Rifle with optics and bipod.
Ammunition.
Rear bag. Homemade or whatever. A sock full of rice or beans will work.
Shooting app.
Note book/pen.
$5 moving blanket.
The OP will learn a lot more by doing wind estimation, watching flags and mirage, instead of automatically relying on electronics.
For unknown distances, borrow (or buy) a range finder.
Hell, ask a nearby shooter for the distances and add them into your notebook.
The Kestrel can come later.
I do agree the 6.5 is much easier to learn on compared to the 308. Ammo availability is a toss up around here.
The recoil on a 308 is a touch higher.
OP why not shoot during winter months?
Minimum for known distance:
Rifle with optics and bipod.
Ammunition.
Rear bag. Homemade or whatever. A sock full of rice or beans will work.
Shooting app.
Note book/pen.
$5 moving blanket.
The OP will learn a lot more by doing wind estimation, watching flags and mirage, instead of automatically relying on electronics.
For unknown distances, borrow (or buy) a range finder.
Hell, ask a nearby shooter for the distances and add them into your notebook.
The Kestrel can come later.
I do agree the 6.5 is much easier to learn on compared to the 308. Ammo availability is a toss up around here.
The recoil on a 308 is a touch higher.
OP why not shoot during winter months?
The real reason I chose 308 is ammo price and availability. Especially in a shtf situation and I wanted a caliber I knew could put food on the table if it all went crazy, yes I know technically I could put food on the table with a 5.56 but a bigger round is better. Buds has a howa 1500 in an Australian Precision Chassis with a bipod and Nikon scope for right at 1200.
the reason I won’t be shooting much in the winter because there aren’t any ranges longer than 25 yards I know of open in the winter in Indiana.
the reason I won’t be shooting much in the winter because there aren’t any ranges longer than 25 yards I know of open in the winter in Indiana.
For the record, I don't recommend a Kestrel for the wind. I have a base model one that I use for density altitude, baro, and temp - all info for the DOPE/log book.
Not to side track, but I have been doing long range for a while now(long enough to remember when a 308 and a mk4 was state of the art) and still dont own a kestrel or any of that stuff. I DO own a range finder, but for someone starting out a rear bag, bipod and a shooting mat of some type will work on known distance ranges long enough to get the jist of it. LRF, Kestrel, ect can be purchased later.
Howa 1500 APC. the scope is gonna be meh, but it's pretty much ready to run for $1300ish. Get your feet wet so to speak. Also, as a 30Hate shooter it pains me to say, but I'd go 6.5 Creedmoor. Barrel life is 2000+ generally and by the time you burn it out you'll know what you want and what you dont.
All that said shop used, heavy barrel and put all the money saved toward glass. I would take damned near anything with a reasonably heavy barrel and a Bushnell HDMR 2 vs a super awesome shooter and a $200 NCstar scope.
Who cares about ammo in the electric boogaloo? By the time you run thru any reasonable amount you'll be out of operation anyways. Get what you can get and play fantasy games later.
All that said shop used, heavy barrel and put all the money saved toward glass. I would take damned near anything with a reasonably heavy barrel and a Bushnell HDMR 2 vs a super awesome shooter and a $200 NCstar scope.
Who cares about ammo in the electric boogaloo? By the time you run thru any reasonable amount you'll be out of operation anyways. Get what you can get and play fantasy games later.
Not really necessary....just use the smart phone for that info and free Strelok or whatever Ballistic Calculator for starters.
I think this post sums up the 308-6.5 debate rather well.
I would go 20" 1:10 twist 308 in ether a Tikka CTR, Bergara B14, Howa, Remingtion, Savage. Another good option is to look on Brownell's for a Howa barreled action and put in a KRG Bravo stock.
I would go 20" 1:10 twist 308 in ether a Tikka CTR, Bergara B14, Howa, Remingtion, Savage. Another good option is to look on Brownell's for a Howa barreled action and put in a KRG Bravo stock.
Smart phone has no built in sensors to read that data. They rely on data sent over the internet from other sources. I get strange results on that front, like my phone telling me its currently partly cloudy while I'm actively being rained on heavily. Agree that a Kestrel isn't necessary, but definitely a nice to have.
Windy, Ventusky, Dark sky (if ios), Weawow on android which still has access to Dark sky radar for weather apps.
Pulling weather data in various ballistic apps from closest station really varies on quality as to what is around you and what the app grabs (closest airport or gps weather).
My primary use of my Kestrel is wind, secondary is environmental (nearby racetrack has better info AND forecast), tertiary is ballistic calculator.
Pulling weather data in various ballistic apps from closest station really varies on quality as to what is around you and what the app grabs (closest airport or gps weather).
My primary use of my Kestrel is wind, secondary is environmental (nearby racetrack has better info AND forecast), tertiary is ballistic calculator.
