1 MOA with Cheap Semiautos?

[Buck Wilde]

I posted a thread about sub-MOA rimfires, and I got a lot of information from the responses. I concluded chasing accuracy from a .22 was not a good idea for me. It looked like I would have to spend four figures on a gun and then buy expensive ammunition, and I would also have to throw out a lot of ammo, because I would have to test each box.

The whole idea of cheap precision shooting went out the window with all that expense added.

I have kept reading about the subject though, and I've seen people getting pretty good results with Anschutz and Lithgow rifles, which are expensive but not insanely so, and cheap ammo.

Today I decided to see what my Savage A22 (Nikon Prostaff II) would do. I also had a friend's Marlin 60 (a model I don't like much) with a cheap Tasco scope. My friend left it with me after a visit, and I fixed the ejector spring and de-bubba'd a Home Depot wood screw that had been placed in the action. I set my new bench up at 50 yards, and I used the finest ammunition known to man: Remington Golden Bullets and CCI "Choot 'em" Mini-mags.

I was pretty surprised. Both guns produced 5-shot groups right at 1 MOA (0.500" center to center), as well as 4-shot groups the same size, plus one flyer. That's pretty good, and I think these guns can do better. The Marlin's trigger is an abomination straight from hell; at one point, I was pulling it so hard, I thought the safety was on. I can fix that. The Savage gave me problems because I had modified the recoil spring and set it too low. There were a few times it went off sooner than I expected. After shooting, I adjusted it, so it may be better now. Also, I'm not a phenomenal shot, and I haven't shot these guns much.

I also shot some heinous groups, but I'm pretty sure that was me, working with guns I'm not too familiar with. Things cleaned up at the end.

If I can generally shoot right at 1 MOA from 50 yards, seated, with an odd flyer here and there, using cheap guns and ammo, then it seems to me it's worth doing, since all practice is good, and 6-cent ammunition is wonderful. It also makes me think there is a possibility of getting sub-MOA performance at 100 yards with a somewhat better gun that doesn't cost $2500.

I have a couple of questions.

1. I've read that some people weigh their .22 rounds and sort them. Is this worth doing? I was thinking about it. People say it's a waste of time with bigger calibers, but the ratios of the weights of the components would be different for a .22, so maybe cartridge weights are more meaningful.

2. I've read that battered bullets are one cause of accuracy problems with .22 rifles. I believe the bullets get scraped by sharp edges on chamber mouths. Is it possible to decrease the damage by deburring the bottom of a gun's chamber mouth? I don't mean rounding it to the point where it doesn't support the gun's head and causes a blowout. I just mean removing the sharp edge.

Hope no one minds me asking questions about shooting cheap semiautos with low-end scopes.

 

[justin amateur]

Weight sorting? Bah! Humbug!
Rim thickness? Pttttthhhpt!
Overall cartridge length? Bwaaahahahahahaaaa!

Culling visibly defective cartridges does help, a bit.

Buying better quality cartridges is the most effective technique.


How a Semiauto feeds affects results.
As does any magazine fed firearm.
If the cartridge does not align correctly to the chamber
it will scrape the drive bands and damage the bullet.
The closer the damage is to the crimp, the more effect it has on trajectory.

Adjusting the angle of the magazine and the height relative to the chamber
along with modifying the feed ramp to improve chambering can make a marked improvement.

 

[Buck Wilde]

Calling what either of these guns has a "feed ramp" is pretty charitable.

The Marlin has a nice sharp edge on the bottom of the chamber. That's about it. It looks like it was designed to shave lead.

The Savage has a chamfer all the way around, but it's a hard chamfer. I think the lower portion could be improved with a Dremel. I would lose the bluing in that area, though.

 

[justin amateur]

Cold bluing is available.

 

[texasrimfirenut]

There are varying opinions on this as you can see. I've seen a review done where the gentleman displayed some very compelling information and results on this. It seemed to be a lot more productive when cheaper ammo was employed. More expensive ammo with tighter tolerance should have a lot less variation and therefore to most people probably not worth the effort to perform all the testing you mention.

I say, knock yourself out. You have the cheaper ammo, give it a try and she what happens. Heck I'd be very interested to see what you found out.

Lastly, do what makes you happy and you enjoy. I've done some things that turned out to be totally useless but I enjoyed the testing and verification. I've also had many times I learned from the experimentation. Hard to know if you don't try. I know a lot of folks are serious about improving their shooting and I always strive for that but be happy and have fun.

 

[MarkCZ]

I posted a thread about sub-MOA rimfires, and I got a lot of information from the responses. I concluded chasing accuracy from a .22 was not a good idea for me. It looked like I would have to spend four figures on a gun and then buy expensive ammunition, and I would also have to throw out a lot of ammo, because I would have to test each box.

The whole idea of cheap precision shooting went out the window with all that expense added.

I have kept reading about the subject though, and I've seen people getting pretty good results with Anschutz and Lithgow rifles, which are expensive but not insanely so, and cheap ammo.

Today I decided to see what my Savage A22 (Nikon Prostaff II) would do. I also had a friend's Marlin 60 (a model I don't like much) with a cheap Tasco scope. My friend left it with me after a visit, and I fixed the ejector spring and de-bubba'd a Home Depot wood screw that had been placed in the action. I set my new bench up at 50 yards, and I used the finest ammunition known to man: Remington Golden Bullets and CCI "Choot 'em" Mini-mags.

I was pretty surprised. Both guns produced 5-shot groups right at 1 MOA (0.500" center to center), as well as 4-shot groups the same size, plus one flyer. That's pretty good, and I think these guns can do better. The Marlin's trigger is an abomination straight from hell; at one point, I was pulling it so hard, I thought the safety was on. I can fix that. The Savage gave me problems because I had modified the recoil spring and set it too low. There were a few times it went off sooner than I expected. After shooting, I adjusted it, so it may be better now. Also, I'm not a phenomenal shot, and I haven't shot these guns much.

I also shot some heinous groups, but I'm pretty sure that was me, working with guns I'm not too familiar with. Things cleaned up at the end.

If I can generally shoot right at 1 MOA from 50 yards, seated, with an odd flyer here and there, using cheap guns and ammo, then it seems to me it's worth doing, since all practice is good, and 6-cent ammunition is wonderful. It also makes me think there is a possibility of getting sub-MOA performance at 100 yards with a somewhat better gun that doesn't cost $2500.

I have a couple of questions.

1. I've read that some people weigh their .22 rounds and sort them. Is this worth doing? I was thinking about it. People say it's a waste of time with bigger calibers, but the ratios of the weights of the components would be different for a .22, so maybe cartridge weights are more meaningful.

2. I've read that battered bullets are one cause of accuracy problems with .22 rifles. I believe the bullets get scraped by sharp edges on chamber mouths. Is it possible to decrease the damage by deburring the bottom of a gun's chamber mouth? I don't mean rounding it to the point where it doesn't support the gun's head and causes a blowout. I just mean removing the sharp edge.

Hope no one minds me asking questions about shooting cheap semiautos with low-end scopes.

you don't have to spend four figures on a gun to get accuracy. I have Tikka T1X and CZ 455 Varmint that gives me sub moa accuracy at about $500.
I have had good accuracy with low end target ammo. CCI SV, wolf match target, SK standard +, norma Tac 22, Eley target. you may surprised what a little better ammo would do in your guns.
Mark