1 New rifle needed, 2 more wanted - in need of expert advice

[Nuravictus]

Hello everyone,
I am new poster here but a long time lurker so please go easy on me.

Rifle 1: Gift $4,000 I’ve been saving for years for this....and its my dad, he is worth every penny.
Story : My father and brother have long dreamed of going on a big game hunt. He has always put everyones needs ahead of his own. I’m now in my 30s and have a good job to make this reality. Long story short, I’ve booked a hunt for elk next fall, he needs a new rifle as the 243 for hunting deer or 12g shotgun is not adequate for the coming adventure. He has always wanted a 300 win mag. This leaves me in a spot I hate, as 300 win mag kicks like a mule and don’t want him to hate it.
Ive been researching calibers and 30-06 seems plenty capable with tolerable kick, 7mm rem mag steps up the game a bit but that is not what he wants. We are all in excellent shape for our age, my dad is a beast and in top 3% fitness for his age bracket.

Requirements: Must be reliable to a fault, must be accurate, must be easy shooter, stock must be fully adjustable. He wants to learn to shoot long range of which I was looking at classes for this next summer.

The rifle: I was looking at rifles, the AI AXMC is nice but crazy expensive, heavy and push round feed. Tikka is nice but light. Winchester M70 fits the bill nicely but I wouldn’t want to count on it for a shot past 400 yards for accuracy reasons without major upgrades.
Alternatively I was thinking a custom rifle using Mausingfield or Archimedes action for CRF for extra reliability as I have experienced the dreaded stuck case with both my savages which my knife solved shortly but still was not happy and if it happened at a critical point where a second shot was needed, unforgivable.... I will go with a Bartlein barrel or comparable. Trigger I am not sure. Stock I was looking at foundation (also looked at Manners and McMillan but am unsure since I can‘t order full adjustable and I can’t find a way to make it that way) but 2 big issues. First it is not fully adjustable, second that would equal a 10lbs rifle without scope! I was aiming for 10ish lbs with scope but it gets tiring which I can say from experience when the miles are adding up.
Further the recoil issue keeps nipping at the back of my mind and was considering the recoil reduction systems used on shotguns.
All of this is fluid and undecided so please grace me with some knowledge as research only takes me so far.

Rifle 2: <$2000
Story: My new toy xD
I have long loved the old school 30-30 and 30-06. However I was dreaming of the 6.5x55 Swede and 7x57 Mauser. Legendary calibers and commonly used outside the US. I would reload myself so ammo is not a concern.

The rifle: I was thinking of semi custom using a Tikka/Savage/CZ for that action(wish I could just buy a new m70 action without the barrel or stock :drool), put a quality barrel on the end and a new stock, maybe a trigger upgrade. Given that would put me in the $600-$800 range just for an action new unless I can find one used In good shape. Alternatively I was looking at custom actions like defiance and a few others that offer a CRF option I can order. Not really sure where to go with this or what the better route would be. The cartridges are for under 400 yards so I don’t need to get crazy, I rather want CRF but its not easy to get in todays market. Also it would be amazing if I could easily change barrels over to a different caliber. Thoughts? Input?

Rifle 3: <$2000
Story: People get their panties in a wad when I hike/scout in the off season with my hunting rifle as I spend the weekend stomping through bear territory. Game wardens understand once I explain I was scouting for the coming season and don’t want to be caught on the wrong side of something large, fury and muscular’s wayward interest in me. For one I dont think I would do well having an MMA match with a bear in the woods, the weight classes are just so different, plus they cheat and use teeth and claws. Second the bears just don’t understand how important I am(you better be laugh’n, that’s funny I don’t care who ya are.) Also I smell bad and taste funny, also, I cause indigestion and gas. I am not doing anything wrong, just staying active in the woods, observing and learning.

Rifle: Now read first and don’t jump down my throat.... I have a 300BLK which I run 180-220grain rounds. If I ran A frames 200g + IN THEORY it has the sectional density, build and force to punch a grizzly skull at <50 yards. This seems sketchy as hell and I am not a fan. (Now don’t jump me for the comment please, I recognize its shortcomings and agree there are other options that you now get the opportunity to tell me about.) With that, if a queen had the right anatomy she could be king and theories are like farts in the wind.... At any rate, I want something small, compact, reliable, accurate and less than friendly to Mr. Griz or any other unfriendly types (I’ve seen The Gray, it’s unlikely to happen but my imagination still hates me and lone wolves are still an issue although more probable are packs of wild dogs. I was considering a AR 10 in an alternate caliber but there has to be other options. What options are out there? Thoughts? Ideas?

 

[Nuravictus]

Can a mod move this to the right area for bolt rifle, I apparently messed this up after scrolling through the areas preparing to post.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Buying your Dad a rifle is like buying him a pair of hunting boots.... Let him try it on before purchasing.

Hobo

 

[acudaowner]

one needed 2 wanted your lucky that or I am too dam greedy I want them all and would be happier with 2 of each to add to my ark of shooting fun house . Good luck to you finding what it is your looking for and good luck to your plans on what sounds to be a great hunt with your father and brother . personally Id be happy with 30 -06's and make it more about spending time with family while picking on my brother about every thing you can think of , if you can't pick on a brother what are they good for .

 

[houndog]

So, I will take a shot at a rifle for your Dad - although I am probably guilty of being one of those guys who just really likes this rifle, so I end up recommending it. My suggestion - Tikka t3x or CTR. As for caliber, I'm not a hunter so I'm not really sure how big you need to go for elk. If you can get away with 6.5CM, this is a great round with good ballistics, accurate factory ammo and not much of kick.

Think this would be a good fit because these rifles are accurate, reliable, light and not all that expensive. I would say the weak point of the Tikka is that the stock is not all that great. They are also really easy to upgrade. Since I don't hunt and use my CTR for long range shooting, I swapped out the stock for an XLR, but fully adjustable and not all that heavy. Probably not ideal for hunting, but I'm sure Manners and McMillan make a stock for the Tikka. As for upgrading the stock trigger, a YoDave spring (cost about $10) can get you down to about 2 pounds.

 

[ClangClang]

I don't have much to contribute on this topic, but wanted to thank you for posting a well thought out and complete intro. High level of initial effort = high quality responses that are tailored to your specific situation. I don't even bother responding anymore when I see a post like "Recommend a me a new hunting rifle. I hunt deer." - that is useless.

 

[Dewey7271]

Rifle: Now read first and don’t jump down my throat.... I have a 300BLK which I run 180-220grain rounds. If I ran A frames 200g + IN THEORY it has the sectional density, build and force to punch a grizzly skull at <50 yards. This seems sketchy as hell and I am not a fan. (Now don’t jump me for the comment please, I recognize its shortcomings and agree there are other options that you now get the opportunity to tell me about.) With that, if a queen had the right anatomy she could be king and theories are like farts in the wind.... At any rate, I want something small, compact, reliable, accurate and less than friendly to Mr. Griz or any other unfriendly types (I’ve seen The Gray, it’s unlikely to happen but my imagination still hates me and lone wolves are still an issue although more probable are packs of wild dogs. I was considering a AR 10 in an alternate caliber but there has to be other options. What options are out there? Thoughts? Ideas?

if you’re AR friendly it seems a 450 Bushmaster loaded with some tough bullets might work for this one. Light, handy, quick follow up. Load some Swifts in it and it’ll penetrate. Way outdoes the 300 BO.

 

[tuckybill]

If he wants the 300 get him a 300. It is EASY to load a 300 mag to 30/06 levels if it kicks too much. Do you know any handloaders? A nice thick limbsaver pad will help also.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Agree. Get him what he wants and start him off with light hand loads with 150gr bullets and go up as he gets used to it. It won't take long with a 10-12lb rifle.

#3 450 BM or just a 10mm Glock.

If you like wheel guns like I do, a heavy loaded 45 Colt or a 480 Ruger. Get the Bisley grip frame. The pistol keeps your hands free and they are easy to access.

 

[RTH1800]

You live in grizzly country, scout in the off season, and booked a guided elk hunt and are thinking of an AR for grizzly protection?

If you knew the odds of success on guided elk hunts...

 

[Nuravictus]

So, I will take a shot at a rifle for your Dad - although I am probably guilty of being one of those guys who just really likes this rifle, so I end up recommending it. My suggestion - Tikka t3x or CTR. As for caliber, I'm not a hunter so I'm not really sure how big you need to go for elk. If you can get away with 6.5CM, this is a great round with good ballistics, accurate factory ammo and not much of kick.

Think this would be a good fit because these rifles are accurate, reliable, light and not all that expensive. I would say the weak point of the Tikka is that the stock is not all that great. They are also really easy to upgrade. Since I don't hunt and use my CTR for long range shooting, I swapped out the stock for an XLR, but fully adjustable and not all that heavy. Probably not ideal for hunting, but I'm sure Manners and McMillan make a stock for the Tikka. As for upgrading the stock trigger, a YoDave spring (cost about $10) can get you down to about 2 pounds.

He actually really likes the Tikka, I am just starting to dig around more on upgrading these as it would need a new stock, I completely agree. They are a good rifle and if it makes him happy, I am all for it.

if you’re AR friendly it seems a 450 Bushmaster loaded with some tough bullets might work for this one. Light, handy, quick follow up. Load some Swifts in it and it’ll penetrate. Way outdoes the 300 BO.

450 bushmaster, your suggestion got me reading about this animal and capability for my purpose and I rather like the idea, the lingering question that is in my mind, would I be better off stepping up to an AR10 instead for more power? The 7mm-08 / 260 and then there is the 458 hammer.....all of them are proven and capable, just less small form factor. I do like that I should be able to quickly follow up shots in the 450 bushmaster. I fear the ar10 equivalent would slow my shots down significantly.

Agree. Get him what he wants and start him off with light hand loads with 150gr bullets and go up as he gets used to it. It won't take long with a 10-12lb rifle.

#3 450 BM or just a 10mm Glock.

If you like wheel guns like I do, a heavy loaded 45 Colt or a 480 Ruger. Get the Bisley grip frame. The pistol keeps your hands free and they are easy to access.

I really like that idea and honestly didn’t think of it. Start at 150grain with a “light load“ and build up. That sir is an outstanding suggestion!
Great minds think alike because the last game warden I spoke to also recommended the 10mm, 357 mag or larger or a 45 colt. I was looking at a 357mag and am rather excited about the gp 100, the down side is since I am not use to anything more than my 9mm this will take some work. I do like the idea of the 10mm but was digging more on the side of a PCC admittedly for the 10mm.

You live in grizzly country, scout in the off season, and booked a guided elk hunt and are thinking of an AR for grizzly protection?

If you knew the odds of success on guided elk hunts...

I admit it is not guided, it is me paying several landowners to allow me to hunt the elk that roam across their land. So yes I “booked“ a hunt they don’t normally allow anyone on their land to hunt. But I was raised on a farm, I know how to work hard and cook great food. So I eventually got permission...this year is hunting the land by myself and really prove their trust well placed. I can see the confusion from my wording as it was not specific.

No, I am not specifying an AR, however a 300BLK is very small form factor, easy shooting, fast follow up, but end of the day it is my range toy that puts a smile on my face. My 30-06 (what I am currently carrying every time I go out) uses similar size bullets with a much different powder charge, it spurred the idea. However if you reread my statement you will see my doubt in 300BLK true capability and requested for other ideas and input. I am only human and do not know everything which is why I ask others for advice, thoughts and ideas, that sharing of knowledge makes us all stronger. I want something that is not massive and obvious I have a rifle in the off season, my hunting rifle doesn’t leave a whole lot to the imagination if you get what I mean I’m the scary guy with a gun that gets called in from time to time....... *rolls eyes*

I am still open to more thoughts and ideas.
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the input so far. It is all very helpful!

 

[RTH1800]

Excellent!

You will do much better on the hunt you are ramrodding than with an outfitter. In a world of scam hunts, guided elk hunts are the biggest scam that comes to mind.

Good luck with your hunt!

 

[Mike Casselton]

If you're gonna go the 357 (not my choice, but way better than nothing) route, practice with 38 special, then move to +p, then to the 357.

Buffalo Bore, CorBon and many others make heavy 357 loads. Use them instead of loads designed for two legged personal defense.

I carried a 4" 357 Blackhawk when I lived in Idaho, because that's all I had. I felt a lot safer with that than with nothing.

 

[Nuravictus]

If you're gonna go the 357 (not my choice, but way better than nothing) route, practice with 38 special, then move to +p, then to the 357.

Buffalo Bore, CorBon and many others make heavy 357 loads. Use them instead of loads designed for two legged personal defense.

I carried a 4" 357 Blackhawk when I lived in Idaho, because that's all I had. I felt a lot safer with that than with nothing.

I wouldn’t mind a larger caliber pistol but I know it’s a lot more kick than I am use to compared to my 9mm. An old buddy of mine recommended building up over time even though it would take buying several revolvers. I have wanted a revolver for years, just never jumped into the game. Is it possible to just jump up to a larger pistol and load it light to build up or is this not advisable? I haven’t run across anyone discussing that short of the 357mag, starting with 38 special and working your way up through the factory loads so I really don’t know, but I am open and happy to learn. I have heard of 357 and 44mag both knocking out animals such as moose and bear, but not penetrating to cause any real harm using standard lead rounds. I will definitely be taking your recommendations on ammo.

 

[Mike Casselton]

45LC can be a total pussy cat with factory loads or you can shoot store bought stuff that'll rattle your teeth.
You can do everything in between with hand loads.

I've got a 5.5" Bisley that I shoot factory wuss loads for practice and have a bunch of hard cast and Flat point 335gr loads running close to 1300fps.

They are very close to 454 Casull loads without the nasty recoil.

Those 335s would make short work of elk, moose and probably even a pissed off bear.

 

[CBDR]

Your Outfitter can save you a lot of head aches. Keep it simple. Use the outfitters gun.

 

[Dewey7271]

450 bushmaster, your suggestion got me reading about this animal and capability for my purpose and I rather like the idea, the lingering question that is in my mind, would I be better off stepping up to an AR10 instead for more power? The 7mm-08 / 260 and then there is the 458 hammer.....all of them are proven and capable, just less small form factor. I do like that I should be able to quickly follow up shots in the 450 bushmaster. I fear the ar10 equivalent would slow my shots down significantly.

Only reason on the 15 platform versus the 10 is weight to me. You can definitely put bigger stuff in the AR10 but I was thinking lighter but with some punch.

@Mike Casselton is spot on with the 45 Colt wheel gun. I have one also and they’re terrific. I love wheel guns.

 

[Jsp556]

I agree with getting your dad the 300. There’s nothing like getting what you want. He’s got it in his mind and would feel short changed with less.

For backpacking, older Marlin Guide Guns in 45/70 or 450 Marlin for a short, big bore with some punch. You can get solids for the 45/70 and possibly for the 450. An older Remington 660 chambered in 350 Remington Mag should work as well. Remington chambered 7600’s in 35Whelen. I’ve seen those shortened to 18-20”.

Good luck.

 

[Nuravictus]

Alright, I am going to go for a custom 300 win mag for my dad, I found a very highly rated recoil reducer that uses springs and piston to spread out the time on the recoil. That should make a 10-12lbs rifle fully set up with suppressor very manageable at full power loads by the end of next summer.

Are there any super reliable semi autos you would recommend for the 300 win mag out of curiosity?
I know of a few like Barrett, Nemo, Noreen, Browning BAR, POF. The thing I dislike is if anything goes wrong I have to send it it. Any experience or recommendations here?

As for my off season I am going to put hands on a few revolvers in a few weeks at a local range before I make my purchase, it will cost me a few boxes of ammo but very worth while. Thank you all for your feedback! It is very appreciate.

 

[Snuby642]

I had 35 rem in a marlin 336c lever action in the old days.

Killed some deer and carried 220gr silver tip in black bear country.
Hard recoil impulse and needed a decelarator pad. They made it in 444?
The 35 made a mess through a (out of service) telephone pole with the bear bullet. The old marlin was suprisingly accurate at 100 yards.

Very supprised not more 6.5cm suggestions for the elk.