1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

bohem

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<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Pacific Tool and Gauge: One Piece Remington 700 Replacement Bolt</span></span>

Let me start off with how I found myself to be in critical need of a replacement bolt to begin with, it’s somewhat embarrassing but allows me to paint a more complete picture of the situation. About 6 weeks back I decided that I was in a hurry to finish up an action truing job for a rifle chambered in 280 Remington and didn’t feel like waiting a week for my usual bolt welder to do his work so I took it upon myself instead.

I over-zealously fixtured the bolt and handle into the position I deemed appropriate, brazed it in place and stood back in my newfound glory. About 2 seconds after I took the bolt out of the cooling bucket I realized the reasons why I have someone else do these jobs, I’d messed up the fixturing and the bolt was trash. Not “grind the mistake off, clean it up, try again” type trash, I mean “hang it on the wall and use it as a reminder never to experiment on something that really matters" type trash.

That Monday morning I called PTG and (forgetting that Oregon is 3 hours behind Pennsylvania) caught Dave Kiff as he was opening up the shop at 6am. I told him what happened and asked what the lead time for a new bolt body would be. After a few minutes of discussion he said (to my disappointment) that the standard bolt body they make would be 5-6 weeks out minimum. He went on to say that the quickest way to remedy my situation was with one of the 1 piece bolts that he was finishing up on contract for Remington’s military customers. The only change for the rifle build was that I couldn’t get a Standard bolt face from the long action, it was magnum only. Since I hadn’t cut the chamber yet this wasn’t a big deal, instead of a 280 Remington I decided to build a 7mm BAT (7/300 WSM) instead.

He had 1 or 2 left from overrun and was willing to send me one of these new bolts if I was willing to take a look at it and see how I liked it and give him some feedback on my impressions. The information here that I’m discussing and the pictures included are the first look at the Long Action, Magnum (0.532") bolt face for Remington 700 right handed rifles. They are not available on the civilian market at this time as the first production run has gone entirely to the military contract.

They are made as a drop in replacement for the Army’s M24 in 300 Win Mag, a short action version is also being made with a Standard (0.473") bolt face for the M40A(x) series rifles.

P6226924.JPG

<span style="font-style: italic">Figure 1 – Bolt body with striker assembly installed, Rem 700 LA receiver for reference</span>

The feature list includes:

• One piece bolt body and bolt handle from pre-hardened, stress relieved plate
• Precision ground body, milled helical fluting
• Mini-16 extractor
• Properly sized firing pin hole to negate a firing pin bushing
• Drop in replacement for existing rifles, the only gunsmithing “required” is extractor and ejector installation.
• Uses factory Remington fire control pieces (bolt shroud, firing pin, etc.)
o Drop in replacement striker assemblies are available from PTG
• Bolt handle threaded for 5/16-24 to accept the myriad of aftermarket knobs
o Bolt knobs are available from PTG as well as many others

The pictures show the exact condition that I received the bolt in. I spun my striker assembly into the body and began looking it over for fit/finish/function. I installed the extractor and ejector assemblies after taking the photos but for liability reasons I’m not going to show those steps in detail.

Upon first inspection it is apparent that PTG has taken quite a bit of care to evaluate the process of building a tactical bolt from the existing Remington bolt and to replicate those features at the initial concept.

The bolt bodies are setup so that every fire control assembly will work in them without any gunsmithing necessary. This is an obvious benefit for those that have the knowledge and modicum of tools necessary to install the extractor/ejector but do not have the access to a machine shop or the time needed for hand fitting pieces together.

The downside that this poses is that depending upon the bolt shroud of a particular rifle it is probable that with the new bolt body a rifle will perform more of the cocking action on bolt closure than during the bolt opening. This is easy to cure by a gunsmith who can modify the bolt shroud and make the action completely “cock on open” (IMO an improvement over stock functionality), but again, this is work for a qualified gunsmith to perform. I am sure that if your particular ‘smith has questions the tech support staff at PTG can address these questions on a case by case basis.

P6226933.JPG

<span style="font-style: italic">Figure 2 – Factory bolt shroud fit/finish with PTG bold body</span>

The bolt has mill cut spiral flutes (seen in detail in Fig 2 & 3), it has been blasted and then post machined (ground) on the bolt nose and bolt body for final dimensioning. This means it is ready to be degreased and coated straight from the box if the owner wants some sort of coating on it.

P6226936.JPG

<span style="font-style: italic">Figure 3 – Bolt handle, sprial flutes, threaded handle, and ground bolt body detail again</span>

All of the bearing surfaces and locking surfaces on the bolt are precision ground and the function is exceptionally smooth in my receiver. I did not have any blue layout dye handy at the house so instead I used an indelible marker to check the lockup of the bolt lugs and the receiver lugs. I was pleasantly rewarded with excellent contact on both lugs, on my trued receiver it appears that no lapping will be required (as it should be). Full contact may or may not be the case with an untouched receiver, if lapping is desired please consult your gunsmith before attempting anything.

Some more photos will show the firing pin protrusion as the bolt is locked into battery. Note the tight fit of the firing pin nose through the bolt face, this was designed into the manufacturing process so that the factory firing pin can be used without having to send the bolt out to be bushed.

P6226930.JPG

<span style="font-style: italic">Figure 4 – Firing pin protrusion with bolt locked into battery</span>

Being the ever curious engineer, I measured the bolt body to see how much clearance was available with my particular action. I have not re-bored this action during the accurizing process so it is still representative of a factory Remington in that regard.

Here are some measurements that I took to validate the consistency to the more discerning amongst us. Dimensions are in inches and were measured with a Mitutoyo #103-260 vernier scale micrometer. I verified the calibration using a 0.5000” Mitutoyo gauge block.

Bolt Body OD, forward region near locking lugs = 0.6973
Bolt Body OD, aft region near bolt handle = 0.6974
Bolt Snout OD = 0.6973
Locking Lugs OD = 0.985 (caliper measurement)
Firing Pin extrusion = 0.039 (caliper measurement)

Here is a pair of detail shots showing the aft view of the bolt handle and striker assembly threads (Figure 5) and the precision ground finish on the bolt lug locking surfaces (Figure 6). As you can see in Figure 5 the amount of material in the root of the bolt handle is substantial, I would be quite surprised to hear someone has managed to break one off like the soldered handles. Noting the locking lug finish and comparing to the factory finish one can easily see a contributing reason why this bolt functions smoothly.

P6226938.JPG

<span style="font-style: italic">Figure 5 – Bolt handle root and striker body threads detail



P6226940.JPG

Figure 6 – Bolt lug locking surface detail, note precision ground surface finish</span>

Since the 7 BAT reamer has not been finished yet I haven't chambered the rifle for it so this is all first impressions without putting the bolt through actual use. I am anxiously awaiting the reamer and headspace gauge set arrival so that I can get this bolt out to the range and put some rounds downrange and let everyone know how it performs under duress. I’m expecting the usual teething issues that a new rifle presents but I am optimistic that this bolt is going to outperform all my expectations.

Some closing notes worthy of mentioning. This bolt will be offered to the consumer/civilian market in coming months as I understand it. If you want one sooner than that Dave said that he is now the sole source supplier for Stiller’s new bolt, getting a new Stiller will include the PTG bolt with the features listed above plus the other anything else Stiller has in mind. That production run is currently in process and they should be filtering into our hands as shooters order the new Stiller action. I have no information on the Stiller bolts or action.

I passed it around to a couple of guys at my club last night and the unanimous reaction was very positive. When I have some trigger time on the rifle I will update this post with any issues/discoveries/etc. that I find.

I would like to thank PTG for the opportunity to take a sneak peak at this nifty piece of equipment and also for helping me remedy the foolish mistake I made with regards to the bolt handle early on. Dave Kiff has been exceptionally willing to answer questions and help me out picking the specific reamer details for the 7mm. If there is enough demand to ever make this available in a left handed one piece bolt I will likely be buying 2 more of them.
 

LR-WSM

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Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

bohem,
Very informative and well done.
 

chrisj

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Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

First off...Exceptional job on the review Bohem! Very nicely done.

2nd and most surprising to me is..that the military keeps using 700's and modifies the living crap out of them to the point where they are even replacing the complete bolts now! WTF.Don't get me wrong..I l;ove the 700 action and it makes a great hunting rifle and tactical rifle, but with AI and Sako and a few others out there, I just can't see why they keep buying/building 700 based rifles. We true the actions, rework the triggers,custom recoil lugs, redrill holes on receiver, rebarrel (non-interchangeable with other actions like AI's), replace bolts with aftermarket bolts now, even use AI stocks, all for about the same price or more of an AI and way more than a Sako TRG! Everything is interchangeable on AI's. With the 300 magnum now widely in use (and reports of even less than 1000 round sof bbl life), How handy it would be to have say an AI and a bunch of bbls handy that anyone can just screw on when a bbl goes south. I just don't get it. I guess it's the usual..."Not Invented Here" BS.
 

bohem

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Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

Guys, thanks.

There's something to keep in mind with our defense department. We strongly subscribe to "Buy American" (I agree with this for a litany of reasons), on another topic we can discuss elsewhere (so I don't clog this up) there were some hoops to jump through for the Kpot supplier (Gentex) just to get enough raw material to keep up with the demand for ballistic helmets.

You have some good points in there, but the 2 things that I remind people when they get on the case of "why doesn't so and so do such and such"

The supplier is the lowest domestic bidder 99.999% of the time. Changing this far into the game would cost a hefty chunk of change and open up the contract process again, which is another additional expense.

I think this replacement bolt is a great step to fix known issues with the current Remington bolts under harsh conditions.
 

Bacarrat

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Hopefully they are producing better bolts now then what came with my Stiller. If you could name a bolt problem, it had it. Bolt handle came off the bolt body? Yep. Cratering the primers? Yep. Bolt body not true with the action? As far as I can see.
     

    bohem

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    To my knowledge, Dave has just started making bolts for Stiller, he's now the supplier for them. I have no experience with a Stiller so I won't comment on the issues you had, but hearing it makes me think that PTG is now making the bolts for Stiller because of that.
     

    Bacarrat

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    I dunno, I have been told by a couple of smiths that the Stillers have been using the PTG bolts for some time now. Even Defiance use to use PT&G bolts a couple of years back.
     

    chrisj

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    That is interesting. I have had VG luck with PTG products for years. It's hard to believe that dave would make "poor quality" bolts in numbers. I could see a bolt here and there with an issue but not in large quantities. I hope this isn't the case.
     

    TEAMSENDIT

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    when i talked to the guys at stiller a year ago they were using ptg bolts however they were attaching the bolt handles in house. i to had a bolt handle come off one but they said they had a small batch of silver soder. they were happy to fix it for free so i don't think it is a big deal. about the cratering of primers every single action i have used does this with the larger cases with small rifle primers i.e. 6br,6.5x47 ( I had a surgeon 591,stiller, trued remington, fn spr all did it)
     

    stiller

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    I guess the cat is out of the bag. We are moving to one piece bolts from Dave. There is an interim design that I call the wraparound. It has a full circle of steel on the handle that gets put on the bolt like a pipe fitting. It is probably as strong as the one piece, but takes a lot of work. The 0.750 diameter bolts are always going to be that way as well as the left handed ones for a while. When these are in stock in the next few months there will be a price increase. All the predators and tacs will be $850 dealer, which is 50 to 75 more then they used to be. The old bolt style will still be the old price and each one is checked to 400 lbs on the handle to insure structural rigidity.

    By the way, Dave has built every single bolt and handle on these actions since day one. I put the handles on and had a few come off, about 20 or so out of 5000. I have always put them back on and never charged anyone. Most had some help coming off and the rest were faulty, I believe due to a reaction of the solder, flux and final coating. At this point it is moot. The new actions will be available soon and then it will never happen again. At that point I cant see anything left. We have a TRUE billet one piece bolt and BILLET body plus all the features everyone else wants. If you look real close, lots of my competitors make that claim, but you will find cast or forged parts in the mess that dont like to talk about. My understanding is that Dave has an exclusive deal with us on these bolts. We had quite a lot of input on the design and machining on the cams etc.

    I am also waiting for some other news that may be real exciting about our product line that will interest everyone here. IF and when it happens I will let you know.
     

    RBros

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when i talked to the guys at stiller a year ago they were using ptg bolts however they were attaching the bolt handles in house. i to had a bolt handle come off one but they said they had a small batch of silver soder. they were happy to fix it for free so i don't think it is a big deal. about the cratering of primers every single action i have used does this with the larger cases with small rifle primers i.e. 6br,6.5x47 ( I had a surgeon 591,stiller, trued remington, fn spr all did it) </div></div>


    Kinda off topic, but bushing the firing pin will solve the primer cratering on small rifle primers.
     

    stiller

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    diggler44 said:
    when i talked to the guys at
    Kinda off topic, but bushing the firing pin will solve the primer cratering on small rifle primers.</div></div>

    Not always. If you have a .068 pin and a fit to the hole within .002, it wont do any good. Small rifle primers with light cups will extrude into the pin hole during firing and the pin only pushes the center back in when it comes forward again. Most people dont realize that when the gun fires, the pin is pushed back into the hole past the face. Some primers will just crater no matter what.
     

    RBros

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Let me rephrase....Most of the time it will fix the problem. All the Remingtons, Stillers, and Surgeons I have had bushed with a .062" pin elminated the cratering with small rifle primers. I guess it can still happen now and then, but from my experience, this has fixed the problem. To be fair, I have only used CCI small rifle primers and no other brands. Maybe others have a softer cup.
     

    Oddball Six

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    As a service to potential newbies who may come accross this thread, a picture of primer cratering that is being discussed:

    2ui8zl3.jpg


    The portion they are discussing using a bushing to eliminate is the ring of material surrounding the outside of the firing pin indentation.

    The indentation to the primer from the firing pin is expected behavior to trigger the reaction which results in powder ignition.

    There is usually some kind of pressure variation or gap between the pin and the bolt face which allows material to be "molded out" from the face of the primer against the firing pin.

    [To save others a question I asked when I was new to shooting :)]

    Primer cratering doesn't HAVE to be a bad thing, it is just a flag to check the function of your reload and rifle. Remington actually does some beveling around where the firing pin will extrude to force a cratering effect. I have heard a few reasons for this including:
    - by forcing more material to the weakest area of the primer face, they are making the primer stronger during ignition.
    - by forcing material around the firing pin during primer ignition, they create a seal which can help protect against forceful ejection of ignition gases from an overpressure load that causes the primer to fail.

    As I am not an engineer or metallurgist, I cant tell you which is correct.

    There is, however, some cratering that occurs due to an overpressure load. It is this cratering that is concerning. A close examination of your brass and bolt face can help determine which is reason for your cratering.
     

    stiller

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Be careful going to the .062 pin. We use them on our benchrest actions and they have to be heat treated just right or they are too brittle and snap or too soft and will buckle over time, drag in the hole and cause flyers and misfires. Been there before. Our predators use .068 pins. Craters dont hurt anything as long as it dont pierce. Here is what happens during firing:

    1. Pin hits cup
    2. Cup deforms smashing compound between cup and anvil
    3. Primer fires
    4. Pressure builds in case
    5. Pressure builds in primer
    6. Primer cup flattens back out and accelerates pin rearward
    7. Pin continues past face and a thin primer cup will then push into hole.
    8. Pin reverses and comes back forward
    9. Pin hits primer and creates new dent.
    10. If thin, the primer edge is too stiff to push back in after being pushed back into hole.
    11. Crater is formed from stiff edge.
    12. Everybody has a cow because they have a crater.

    Craters can be useful in showing excessive pressure and potential piercing about to happen if shooting heavy loads. If not shooting heavy loads, the above is what is going on. The smaller the hole, the less it can push into the hole during firing and the less chance there is from piercing. When I designed our benchrest actions, piercing was a problem and after much analysis and investigation, I used the .062 pin and still do. The big issue there is fed 205M primers and PPC pressures. If it doesnt pierce, I wouldnt worry about a crater. I would NEVER bush one of our actions with the .068 pin already installed. It is a waste of money and can only make the overall system worse.
     

    knockemdown

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Great read, guys...thanks!
     

    bohem

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Dave or Ashley at PTG can answer that the best but I seem to remember about 150 for the bolt and 20 for the extractor kit. With a new ejector, ejector retaining pin, ejector spring it's about 185 after shipping I think. I'm not sure, as good as I am at math, I mix up numbers in memory sometimes.

    The reamer and gauge are done and should be arriving any day, so I should have a completed rifle in the coming few weeks to show off with this bolt in it.
     

    CD0311

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jp67</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Please, keep us updated.
    Thanks </div></div>
    +1
    TAG for later
     

    bwgdog

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Will the bolt handle clear on a stock remington inlet-or do you have to hog out wood,ect for the bolt handle to clear? tia barry
     

    bohem

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    If you have veryh low mounted rings and a big eyepiece then it may hit the scope. I didn't have any problems with medium rings on my 5.5-22x50 clearing, there were no necessary changes to the stock at all.
     

    kiff

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    I have some extra one piece bolts going thru if anyone would like to order one. Give me a call if you need any bolts with the Remington handles and I will get Kevin to weld them on . The one pc bolt handles can be formed in the dog leg design if anyone would like. Give me a call at the shop. 541-826-5808 Thanks Dave
     

    skog

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    the website says available late january. Is this still true?
     

    kiff

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Give me a call about some extra one pc blanks I am grinding. We will need face size and lengths. I am getting some finished for customers for the holidays. Thanks Dave
     

    Mgordon

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    I wonder if Stillers and the PTG one piece bolts have a guided firing pins installed or if they are not built that way to accept just about any drop in Remington 700 firing pin assembly.

    If they are not, can we get them with a guided firing pin? I think I asked you this Dave a while back and I cant remember the answer.

    Mark
     

    stiller

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    The stiller bolts are different than the Rem bolts. The firing pin is smaller and does not come out of the hole. A Rem pin will not go in it. The extraction surfaces are also much different as are the tolerances. The bolts do not interchange. I am not sure what Dave does on the Rem bolts for the firing pin holes.
     

    bohem

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    I quickly checked the one that I have this morning and the firing pin does not appear to leave the hole. I didn't get a chance to take any measurements though, I just quickly pulled the bolt out of the safe before heading out the door to work.
     

    skog

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    ptg website still says 1-29 anybody order one and get it yet?
     

    bohem

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    Someone else on here got ahold of one recently I think, maybe jcvibby? Don't know if he ordered it or he has it, heck, might not even be him that did it. I think it would be worthwhile of a PM to check though.
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    I ordered a SA version from them back in late Oct and was told end of Jan at the time. Still haven't heard anything from them about it or seen a charge to my card for it. Perhaps I should call and inquire.
     

    reamers4u

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    we are shipping them out like grain going thru a goose. If you did not get yours call Kathleen and ask why yours is not out. There are a few on our specials page. Thanks
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: 1 Piece PTG Bolt Review: Rem 700 LA, Mag Face

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reamers4u</div><div class="ubbcode-body">we are shipping them out like grain going thru a goose. If you did not get yours call Kathleen and ask why yours is not out. There are a few on our specials page. Thanks</div></div>

    Well, I called and it turns out you shipped it yesterday. Guess I should have just been a LITTLE more patient...