10/22 at 200 *pics*

[jacq220]

SORRY IF YOU GUYS THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO SEE A REALLY GOOD REVIEW

this is cut and pasted from another forum however it is my range report and i did all the shooting... i didnt want to post it here knowing that there are WAY better shooters on this site than I am but I dont think marksmanship is a HUGE factor in the bad results i achieved...

Please dont hammer on me two hard i know this is not good shooting.
Instead please offer me some constructive critisism to improve my skills... I am looking into a cz 452 to try and get a big more accuracy than what i am currently getting.

In one word I will summerize todays shooting.
HUMBLING.
My goal was paper plate accuracy at 250-300 yards and I came up short at 200....
I am running a TacSol barrel in a Hogue overmold stock with a complete VQ match trigger. The scope is a Super Sniper 10x mil dot in Millet Tactical medium rings. Ammo was Wolf Match.
Distance was verified with a Bushnell Elite 1500 Laser Range Finder.
All shooting was done off an Eagle Hybrid Sniper Rifle Case with a sandbag rest for the front and a homemade sandsock used to support the rear. the chronograph was a digital ProChrono Shooting Chrony.
here is the rifle and the how I had my firing position set up.

I started out verifying my 25 yard zero.

I then moved to 50 yards, and things just worked out that i had NO drop at this distance. The round must have been moving UP at 25 and happen to come down on the same arc so with this ammo my 25yard zero is the same as my 50 yard drop data.

here is 50 yards. the first was a group, and the second was 25 rounds semi-rapid fire... My fiance was watching so I had to show off

then i moved to 75 yards and my drop was 1.5 MOA

my drop to 100 yards was 5 moa without wind dialed in yet. it was about a 7 mile an hour half value wind.

and this is what the targets look like at 100 with the naked eye

my drop at 125 was 9.5 moa

 

[jacq220]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

my drop at 150 was 14 moa

and another rapid fire high volume group at 150 yards... i did this to verify my windage setting as bullet impacts were VERY hard to spot at this distance

My drop at 175 was 18 moa

My drop at 200 was 22 moa... this is 44 inches of drop OVER 3 FEET!

I may have been able to get paper place accuracy to 250 but i ran into TWO problems....
First is dont own a spotting scope YET.... at 200 i had to drive my truck to the target every 5 shots to verify drop data... this is why i called it quits....
Second... my laser range finder started only displaying partial numbers so i couldnt accuragtly determin distance anymore which would defeat the purpose of shooting anymore.

I learned the reason that people say dont trust electronic equipment. had i been relying soley on the range finder i would have been hurting.

I also learned that my equipment is not capable of the accuracy i require. i will be building another .22 in pursuit of the 300 yard groups that i want.

In case it benefits anyone else my chronograph for wolf match showed an average velocity of 1046 FPS. a standard deviation of around 15 FPS and an extreme spread of 37 FPS average. this data was taken accross the course of 450 rounds of ammo from the same lot.

 

[Downzero]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

Looks great to me.

 

[Patrick_S]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

My old bedded/built 10/22 didn't shoot much better than that. Id say you have reached the limits of your system. I dumped over 600 in parts/labor into it just to go out and buy a Savage that would "own" it any day with no work. Live and learn.

 

[jacq220]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

HMM.... i really thought i was going to be hammered here because i couldnt hold a group worth a damn... guess it was the gun this time and not the nut behind it.... probably the last time you will ever hear me say that!

 

[malaga2]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

Looks good to me...and 10/22 are just plain fun to shoot...

 

[Pain_doc]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

JACQ,

Looks to me you had a solid day shooting. And your post illustrates one of the best tips for long range practice, which is taking a 22rf and pushing the distance (like you said...a drop of 44 inches & 22MOA @200) where you have to use real skill/fundamentals. When I get to put up targets at various unknown distances, I tend to put up a target of known print size and get a little extra practice ranging and then compare it with a laser RF. Good post. -A

 

[buffybuster]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

That's certainly very respectable shooting. As you found out it very humbling to shoot a 22lr out to 200yds. My 200yd dope is 24-25moa for Wolf MT. FYI 300yd dope is ~48moa.

 

[spaniel]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

I've seen a 10/22 shot side-by-side against my CZ453, there is no comparison. If you like playing at long range with a 22, go with a decent bolt gun and you won't regret it.

FWIW while I can shoot nice 200yd groups my experiences at 300yds have been a bit more frustrating. I only tried a couple times last summer, but even with reasonable winds it gets ridiculous. IMHO the practice value as applicable to centerfire goes away, I can dope wind decently with centerfire at extended ranges but a 22 at 300yds was just frustrating (especially w/o a spotting scope capable of placing the shots -- very hard to learn).

 

[shooter65]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

The ole .22 turns into a pattern not a goup at 200 plus yards.
Nice report you posted.

 

[jacq220]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

Thanks for all the feedback guys, i really thought i was going to get hammered.... I keep seeing all the threads about everyones guns shooting great groups and doing great things, and my day turned out to be average but priceless in terms of experience that i gained in 4 hours of shooting and a 50 dollar brick of ammo....

 

[z71rat]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

You got to actually learn what alot of people "brag" about, and seldom ever really do. You owned up to the day, you showed the reluts with your intergity intact, and you got honest feedback.

This is exactly why this site is so awesome!! You done good grasshopper... keep that barrel heated up!! Nice lookin rig too, by the way.

I do actually have one complaint though... you didn't give us a glimpse of how the fiance can shoot!! FOR SHAME!!

DK

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JACQ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the feedback guys, i really thought i was going to get hammered.... I keep seeing all the threads about everyones guns shooting great groups and doing great things, and my day turned out to be average but priceless in terms of experience that i gained in 4 hours of shooting and a 50 dollar brick of ammo.... </div></div>

There are over 20,000 members here, only 6 or 7 a week post great groups.

Think about it.

Anyhow, You know what the limits of your rifle and ammunition are in distance now.

I would try diffrent ammunition to see if it gets better or worst.

Then once done with that, you will find a good solid range, and ammunition combo that works.

John

 

[oldgrayone]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

Excellent report. I think you did well JACQ. Look at it this way, you took some basic equipment to it's limit and was suscessful. That sir is a high mark in any book. If you persue the CZ I have found in my research the 452 has a better trigger to work with. I think the 453 is a single stage that requires some work to get it down 2 lb and the 452 has a 2 stage that can be worked to under 1lb with less effort.

 

[jacq220]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

yea i fondled a 452 today that was bedded and had right around a 1 pound trigger on it... couldnt talk the guy into selling it to me though.... oh well... selling my glock 17 longslide to fund the cz and everything i will need to put on it...
thanks guys for all the feedback, i will have to post pics of my range day with the cz once i get it.

 

[wksinatl]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oldgrayone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excellent report. I think you did well JACQ. Look at it this way, you took some basic equipment to it's limit and was suscessful. That sir is a high mark in any book. If you persue the CZ I have found in my research the 452 has a better trigger to work with. <span style="font-weight: bold">I think the 453 is a single stage that requires some work to get it down 2 lb and the 452 has a 2 stage that can be worked to under 1lb with less effort.</span> </div></div>

Pretty sure you have that backwards...452 is single, 453 is 2-stage.

Keith

 

[edgerat]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

also remember the TacSol barrel you have there is not meant for slow match ammo like Wolf. It is setup for CCI mini-mags at 1200+ for the best accuracy. Try some of the mini-mags and see if you can't get a little better groups.

 

[fr3db3ar]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

I'm shooting the CZ452 trainer that I bought from Edgerat....thanks for selling it to me btw. I love it. I was at the range on saturday and continuously hitting an 8" sq of 1/4" steel turned on diamond shape. I had members standing behind me just mumbling. I've set mine up with burris rings and +40 MOA and can only sight in as close as 50 yds...perfect for what I want to do. I'm shooting Xpert HV bulk. It is such a blast to hear nearly every single shot go DING

Good luck with your long range shooting.

 

[jacq220]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

how far was the target?

 

[YAOG]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JACQ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SORRY IF YOU GUYS THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO SEE A REALLY GOOD REVIEW

this is cut and pasted from another forum however it is my range report and i did all the shooting... i didnt want to post it here knowing that there are WAY better shooters on this site than I am but I dont think marksmanship is a HUGE factor in the bad results i achieved...

Please dont hammer on me two hard i know this is not good shooting.
Instead please offer me some constructive critisism to improve my skills... I am looking into a cz 452 to try and get a big more accuracy than what i am currently getting.

In one word I will summerize todays shooting.
HUMBLING.
My goal was paper plate accuracy at 250-300 yards and I came up short at 200....
I am running a TacSol barrel in a Hogue overmold stock with a complete VQ match trigger. The scope is a Super Sniper 10x mil dot in Millet Tactical medium rings. Ammo was Wolf Match.
Distance was verified with a Bushnell Elite 1500 Laser Range Finder.
All shooting was done off an Eagle Hybrid Sniper Rifle Case with a sandbag rest for the front and a homemade sandsock used to support the rear. the chronograph was a digital ProChrono Shooting Chrony.
here is the rifle and the how I had my firing position set up.
<<PHOTO SNIPPED>>
I started out verifying my 25 yard zero.
<<PHOTO SNIPPED>>
I then moved to 50 yards, and things just worked out that i had NO drop at this distance. The round must have been moving UP at 25 and happen to come down on the same arc so with this ammo my 25yard zero is the same as my 50 yard drop data.

here is 50 yards. the first was a group, and the second was 25 rounds semi-rapid fire... My fiance was watching so I had to show off
<<PHOTO SNIPPED>>
then i moved to 75 yards and my drop was 1.5 MOA
<<PHOTO SNIPPED>>
my drop to 100 yards was 5 moa without wind dialed in yet. it was about a 7 mile an hour half value wind.
<<PHOTO SHIPPED>>
and this is what the targets look like at 100 with the naked eye
<<PHOTO SNIPPED>>
my drop at 125 was 9.5 moa
<<PHOTO SNIPPED>> </div></div>

Hi JACQ,

Hey, don't get all bummed out this was really an excellent field report. You put some real effort into seeing just what your 10/22 can do with a few inexpensive, simple bolt-on DIY modifications. Excellent work and thank you for sharing what you found! Don't be too disappointed though as your 10/22 still has a lot of potential locked up in there but you also have to decide if chasing down the last little bit of precision out of your 10/22 is worth the time and money to you.

For a lot of folks that are into the 10/22 it's all about the bling and putting shiny stuff on their 10/22's as they never really shoot them seriously trying to find their gun and their own limitations. For many it's just about having something that is cool and pretty to look at that they bolted together.

If you are really after an accurate 10/22 that is capable of shooting better than you are and pushing the envelope of the .22LR cartridge you have to be prepared to spend nearly as much time and money on a 10/22 as any moderately serious center-fire rifle. I've fired a 10/22 that was amazingly accurate and a pleasure to shoot at 200 to 300 yards. That particular gun was not really quite finished and was projected to exceed $2,000 for the build but what a fantastic shooting 10/22!

My point is that you realize the limitations of the .22LR and of the 10/22 itself. Overcoming the limitations of the .22LR cartridge is not something you can do so you have to fix all of the problems with the 10/22 design to realize the full potential of the .22LR rim-fire. This is not going to be inexpensive and will require some gunsmith work for the bolt, receiver, competition level barrel blank from Lothar Walther, Krieger or equivalent, a solid stock (not rubber like Hogue) suitable for your use and a KID trigger setup appropriately. You will also have to work with your gunsmith to find out what ammo his chambers like and then test until you find one that you and the barrel like. You will also need to buy and install a good base with 15-20 MOA built into the rail and a pair of solid rings and a high quality scope with very clear optics and a magnification range of at least 20-25X on the top. As you can see this can easily run $2,000-$2,500 all in. Sounds crazy but if it works...

Cheers/Chip

 

[YAOG]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JACQ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all the feedback guys, i really thought i was going to get hammered.... I keep seeing all the threads about everyones guns shooting great groups and doing great things, and my day turned out to be average but priceless in terms of experience that i gained in 4 hours of shooting and a 50 dollar brick of ammo.... </div></div>

JACQ,

This is the Sniper's Hide not RFC! Of course there is some of that here on occasion but only if you mention TacOps 1/4 MOA guarantee and how incredible Mike R's Tactical guns shoot when you are having a good day. LOL!

Anyway this is respectable work you've done here and you are being shown the respect you deserve. The reason people are all posting the tiny groups on RFC is they only shoot at 25 and 50 yards which around here is handgun range. Your 25 and 50 yard groups were just fine. $50? That's not even 40 rounds of decent .308 Win ammo and you got a whole day of shooting fun, learning and trigger time out of $50! Geezus I LOVE shooting .22's! But I guess I have to for the moment given the lack of primers of my reloading bench.

Cheers! And keep up the good work!

 

[badbot]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

I am tryin to get my 1022 to shoot too.
I added the .920 barrel shimmed the rear lug with a slice off of a penny so the screw would hold the reciever tight in the stock.
so far it likes the cheepest ammo best 10 rounds @ 50y can be covered with a 45acp.
I got some fast 22lr, 1850 near and 1125@100y but groups stink.
I ordered some aluminum and I will make a stock that I can run free float or support the barrel at any point to see if I can make it shoot with any ammo.
I want to see what I can do without dropping major $ on wizbang bits. I did buy the auto reliese bolt thing and it won't even work so I don't want to buy any more.
if I can make it a shooter then I have some tight burl to dress it in and make it too purity to shoot.

 

[Cartman]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

Good post. Next time add pics of your gal in a swimsuit, then you'll have a great post!

 

[jacq220]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

HA, i will never put pictures of my gal in a swimsuit on a national forum.... she is for me to drool over not you guys....

 

[DAFAR]

Re: 10/22 at 200 *pics*

JACQ,
Thanks for what I considered to be an excellant post. Not only did you document and add pictures I am sure your velocity data will help several people.

This last Saturday I had a friend(my new tranee) out to the range, all he can afford right now is to shoot his old semi auto 22. After loaning him a bipod and an old 4x mildot scope we went to the range and got started at fifty yards. after an initial sighting in his groups were running about 2.5 inches, but with a little bit of basic marksmanship training, A papertowel and masking tape check rest, and a little practice he closed those groups to just a hair over one inch. All of this we did in about 1.5 hours.
The point I am trying to make is do not sell yourself or your 22 short, use the time to learn how to read the wind, the mirage, and focus on sight alignment trigger and breath control and you will be amazed at what you can accomplish with your little 22.
Dafar