105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

[Rmitch223]

Let me start by saying I am completely new to reloading.
My step dad recently bought me a Hornady LocknLoad kit to start reloading. Ive reloaded with him only a few times and I plan to study and learn as much as I can before I get started. I'm building my bench now and getting everything lined out to get started.

I'm currently thinking a lot about my initial load work up.
I'm going to be shooting 105gr Amax bullets threw a Rem 700 SPS Varmint in .243.

A friend on mine here on the hide loaded up the following load for me that shot 1/2" groups at 100yrds.

105gr amax
42.5gr of IMR 4350
Federal 210M primers
Seated at 2.800 COAL

The COAL is longer than all my reloading books state. Is this too long? Feeds well and shoots well I just want to be safe.

I'm curious since this load shot so well that I should just duplicate it. But reloading manuals I have looked at recently say that this is too high of a charge weight and its exceeded max pressure by 6000lbs. (66,000lbs)

Is this a safe load to start with?

Should I start at 38gr and work up to it in .5gr increments?

The fired brass show a slightly cratered primer where the firing pin hits it, but the edges of the primer are not flattened. I will add pics of the fired brass soon. Is this a sign or too much pressure or is it just because the Rem 700 firing pin hole is larger than the firing pin?

<span style="color: #FF0000">Any advice would be greatly appreciated.</span>
Please advise if any information needed to answer my questions is not provided above.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

if there are no real pressure signs, and you like the load, roll w/ it


my 243 load is 42.1gr H4350 @ 2.850" in Win Brass and primer w/ a 105 A-Max

 

[Temp9]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Many Remingtons will show cratering on the primer due to the beveled firing pin hole. Not a problem; in fact, Remington says it was intentional. In the future, make sure to start low and work up. But it sounds like you already fired the load, so if you don't see any pressure signs, rock on. When you load your own, start a grain or two lower than that and watch for pressure signs, since variances in powder lots could cause problems. Probably not, but safety first, right?

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Sounds like you're already off and running. I have the same rifle. One thing to remember is that 243 Win is an "overbore" cartridge, so make sure you always have a good load density. That means...make sure you always using a powder that is capable of filling the case fairly well. I'm not a fan of using compressed loads. Slow powders for heavier bullets in 243 Win. I recently switched to H1000 for the 100gr bullets. IF, one is to "light load" 243 Win, the Hodgdon tech will tell you to use H4895 only for safety reasons. IMR 4350 has legendary performance for 243. H4350 gives the advantage of not being temp sensitive and meters way better.

I've always had success working up in .5gr increments. Then tweak as needed. I'd use smaller increments, but time is limited. I see your friend is loading to mag length so you can feed. I've been using Sierra's pills for many years, but I hear so many great things about the 105 Amax. Guess I'll have to buy a box. For target, currently using 95gr SMK with 40.5gr H4350 with Win primer and brass. (will be trying H4831 when time is available) For deer hunting, using 100gr Sierra Spitzer flat base with 44.5-45gr H1000, Win primer & brass. Curious.....how far is the bullet from touching the rifling? if touching, is it touching or lightly jamming? average length of a 105 Amax? Once you get in the grove, consider neck sizing too since it's a bolt gun, and don't forget to check your brass length when empty. You'll be entering the world of trimming brass. Oh fun! Thx

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

I haven't measured my chamber yet. That is why I'm curious to know if 2.800" is a safe OAL to continue with.

I just finished up my reloading bench yesterday.
Here are a few pics.

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

What is the best way to measure for a OAL to start with?

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Use the tried and true old-school method of:
1 find a case that will grip the bullet, but still allow it
to slide in secure fashion (no powder in case), must be
able
to use your fingers to move it while in case
2 place bullet in case making sure its long enough so the
riflings will push it into the case til your bolt is
closed
3 now extract this non-charged cartridge very carefully, use
a finger to push on the brass to keep it somewhat
concentric in the chamber, the ejector will be trying to
force it to the proper side because it's doing it's job
4 now take reference measurements with caliper
5 repeat this step several times to make sure you're getting
consistent measurements

NOTE: This is NOT the perfect method whatsoever, but it can get a person on track without buying any additional gauges. This does not truely measure your chamber, but it gives one a reference point for a specific bullet that is to be used. I'm sure there are folks that are going to hammer me for even posting this. But it can help.

Here's a reference for you. I load the 95gr SMK to 2.800-2.810 COAL for my .243Win Rem 700 SPS V. That is almost mag length and happens to be the best for accuracy in that particular rifle. It is approx .065-.070 from touching the rifling.....meaning it is jumping .065-.070 when fired. Let me know if this helps. You'll be ok.

 

[steve123]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the best way to measure for a OAL to start with? </div></div>

You need to buy the proper tools to measure off the ogive of the bullet not the tip of the bullet. Tips vary as much as .030".

With the goal being finding where a particular bullet just touches the lands. You can shorten the depth or lengthen .005" to find what shoots best.

Doing a ladder test is my preferred way of finding velocity node windows because you get to see what vertical you get at distance.

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boltgunluvr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use the tried and true old-school method of:
1 find a case that will grip the bullet, but still allow it
to slide in secure fashion (no powder in case), must be
able
to use your fingers to move it while in case
2 place bullet in case making sure its long enough so the
riflings will push it into the case til your bolt is
closed
3 now extract this non-charged cartridge very carefully, use
a finger to push on the brass to keep it somewhat
concentric in the chamber, the ejector will be trying to
force it to the proper side because it's doing it's job
4 now take reference measurements with caliper
5 repeat this step several times to make sure you're getting
consistent measurements

NOTE: This is NOT the perfect method whatsoever, but it can get a person on track without buying any additional gauges. This does not truely measure your chamber, but it gives one a reference point for a specific bullet that is to be used. I'm sure there are folks that are going to hammer me for even posting this. But it can help.

Here's a reference for you. I load the 95gr SMK to 2.800-2.810 COAL for my .243Win Rem 700 SPS V. That is almost mag length and happens to be the best for accuracy in that particular rifle. It is approx .065-.070 from touching the rifling.....meaning it is jumping .065-.070 when fired. Let me know if this helps. You'll be ok. </div></div>

I appreciate this advise, I will definitely try this method.


The COAL has been something I haven't completely wrapped my head around yet. I understand that it can be unsafe to seat them to far away from the lands and too close as well. That's why I put so much thought into making sure I do it correctly. The loads I previously shot loaded at 2.800" functioned and shot extremely well, but I don't know if they are jamming into the lands or not. I plan to use the technique you mentioned to measure the COAL as soon as I pick up some dial calipers. Another thing that kinda confuses me is that SAAMI spec for COAL is 2.710" and I'm shooting very accurately loaded at 2.800". I'm just concerned this is too long I guess. I will know when I get some dial calipers I suppose, I'm just confused about it right now and probably making it more difficult than it really is.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

With 2.800 COAL, I'm pretty sure it's not jamming. NOTE: Use the same bullet in the same unload case when setting the seating die. DO NOT introduce any other bullet/case into the equation. Bullet lengths do vary, as stated by the other individual. Use the same for consistent reference point. I've seen spitzer soft point (hunting) bullets vary in length up to .030-.040. No big deal because the seater doesn't touch the tip. It touches the ogive of the bullet. But COAL is taken end to end with regular caliper.

Your way ahead since you know it shoots well with mag length ammo with that particular bullet. Simply take your time when ready to load live ammo. Take a group of 5-10 bullets and make sure they seat relatively close (+/-) to your mag length measurement. Don't worry. They'll usually differ a bit due to bullet length variance. My mag length is actually 2.825, but I seat a little shorter for trouble-free feeding. You'll be fine. Perfection does not exist.

Here's a reference for you. The 95gr SMK bullet I use...the COAL may vary (+/- .005) from 2.800. Doesn't matter, it still shoots great. I would recommend comparing your scale to your friend's scale to find the scale variance which is normal. Let me know how it goes.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The COAL is longer than all my reloading books state. Is this too long? Feeds well and shoots well I just want to be safe.</div></div>

If it feeds and shoots, then that is all that matters. I usually start my workup at magazine length. If you are going to single load them by hand, then you can start jammed and work back from there.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this a safe load to start with?</div></div>

Sounds like you have already started with it. If it works, no need to re-work it. Just buy the compents, load it and go.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fired brass show a slightly cratered primer where the firing pin hits it, but the edges of the primer are not flattened. I will add pics of the fired brass soon. Is this a sign or too much pressure or is it just because the Rem 700 firing pin hole is larger than the firing pin?</div></div>

If you are not seeing any other pressure signs (ejector swipe, flattened primer, pierced etc.) then you can disregard the primer crater. It's just the Remington signature on your brass.

If you choose to do your own workup (and I would suggest that you do) then start at the "starting charge" and work up. You may very well find that your best load is over book max, but tread carefully.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Any time to try yet????

 

[johnnyappleseed]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

nice bench

if the tip of the bullet isn't deformed after you cycle a round you should be ok lengthwise

you can always shorten it a tad

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Rmitch223......any results yet????

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

no results yet. I got a damn case stuck in my sizing die and sent it to Hornady today to have them extract it and inspect the die for internal damage.

I was using the case lube that came with the kit, and after a little online research I found that alot of people run into stuck cases using the One Shot case lube.

I check my OAL using your method u listed above. I used a case that would hold the bullet tightly and was still moveable by hand. barely hand seated the bullet into the case. Then I chambered it many times and closed the bolt and measured each time. 90% of the time the measurement was 2.822", some measurements came out to around 8.245" but I believe the lands may have been slightly pulling the bullet out to that measurement when I was ejecting. So with 2.822" I should be right where I need to be with a OAL of 2.800" right?

 

[Rob01]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I was using the case lube that came with the kit, and after a little online research I found that alot of people run into stuck cases using the One Shot case lube.

</div></div>

Only people who don't use it right

Make sure to let cases that have been sprayed set for a minute or so to allow the propellant to dissipate. Also don't be afraid to spray the cases well. I do it by tossing cases in a gallon zip loc bag and spraying.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Make sure to let cases that have been sprayed set for a minute or so to allow the propellant to dissipate. Also don't be afraid to spray the cases well. I do it by tossing cases in a gallon zip loc bag and spraying. </div></div>

That is pretty much all I do for .223

I like Imperial Die Wax for .308 and .243 because it seems to take a lot of effort to get even coverage with the larger cases.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Yep...gotta shoot n shake the lube. Let it dissipate all over the brass. I think you discovered the reason to have a case puller kit on hand. We all should have it. I use COAL of 2.800 for 95gr SMK. That's what that rifle shoots well. Sounds like you're on track.

 

[boltgunluvr]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

anything yet???

 

[JGorski]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is the best way to measure for a OAL to start with? </div></div>

I really dont pay too much attention to OAL,(for target work) I measure off the ogive with Hornadys comparator, this way I know where the ogive is in comparison to the lands.

 

[JGorski]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rmitch223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no results yet. I got a damn case stuck in my sizing die and sent it to Hornady today to have them extract it and inspect the die for internal damage.

I was using the case lube that came with the kit, and after a little online research I found that alot of people run into stuck cases using the One Shot case lube.

I check my OAL using your method u listed above. I used a case that would hold the bullet tightly and was still moveable by hand. barely hand seated the bullet into the case. Then I chambered it many times and closed the bolt and measured each time. 90% of the time the measurement was 2.822", some measurements came out to around 8.245" but I believe the lands may have been slightly pulling the bullet out to that measurement when I was ejecting. So with 2.822" I should be right where I need to be with a OAL of 2.800" right? </div></div>

I use the One-Shot spray but for smaller jobs I use Hornadys Unique sizing lube, its slipperier than the One-Shot though it does take a bit longer, plus I like to lube the inside of the necks before sizing them, yeah, the One Shot has to be shaken for 1 min before using, then it works great. You dont need much with the Unique stuff, btw. And its so much cheaper than Imperial.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/758495/hornady-unique-case-lube-4-oz-tub

 

[JGorski]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

105gr amax
42.5gr of IMR 4350

Is this a safe load to start with?

Considering that the max load for this powder is 40.2, what would you think? if you want to try another powder id go with RE17, same burn rate as IMR4350 with more velocity, 41.5grs is Max with the 105AMAX, 2900fps. Per Hornady. FWIW, 41grs works great in my 6mmREM with 105s, but thats a different story.

 

[groundhogbuster]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

105 AMax, out of my sps in a BC stock,over 45.9gr H1000. I've been workin on the Amax 105 in the SPS Varmint for 3-4 months now, and retumbo, works good, but H1000 got me to the .2"s very consistent on warm days. (60 deg and up)
BTW I started on the lands, .10, .15, .20,. .25 and .10 was what my gun liked, no signs of pressure yet, but I haven't shot on a super hot day. Niles Coyote on here helped me , along with Dan at OCW loading. Shot my best 700yd 3 shot group (2.7"). Also been shooting the 87gr Vmax out to 1000 over 43.5gr of 4350 with excellent results, loaded at .20 off lands.

 

[JGorski]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: groundhogbuster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">105 AMax, out of my sps in a BC stock,over 45.9gr H1000. I've been workin on the Amax 105 in the SPS Varmint for 3-4 months now, and retumbo, works good, but H1000 got me to the .2"s very consistent on warm days. (60 deg and up)
BTW I started on the lands, .10, .15, .20,. .25 and .10 was what my gun liked, no signs of pressure yet, but I haven't shot on a super hot day. Niles Coyote on here helped me , along with Dan at OCW loading. Shot my best 700yd 3 shot group (2.7"). Also been shooting the 87gr Vmax out to 1000 over 43.5gr of 4350 with excellent results, loaded at .20 off lands. </div></div>

Were those groups you shot in the 2s 3 shot groups as well? I like 5 shots for evaluation, or sometimes 10 shots.

 

[groundhogbuster]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

5 shots, except on steel. I don't shoot for groups past 500, it was just a nice 2.7" at 700, thought I'd leave it alone. Average on paper with 3 groups was .557". I cant shoot that prone, but my average on my 6br is .2's w/ 5 shot groups. The comps I shoot are 3 shot BR matches at 100 300 and 500yds

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

I went and bought a Hornady headspace gauge and sized my brass to match the dimensions of a factory round I had lying around.

I loaded up 50 rounds ranging from 37 grains of IMR-4350 to 39 grains in .5 increments. I had one group that measured .613" with 37grains and one that measured .833 from 39 grains. I feel that I didn't really shoot my best because of being nervous about my first reloads.

Weird thing was I did have minor pressure signs with one round only at 37.5gn. bolt lift was sticky and I had a slight ejector mark on the head of the case. I worked all the way up to 39gn and never saw another pressure sign. Any idea what could have caused this? Primer not seated all the way? I'm really puzzled about it. The primer had very little cratering around the firing pin mark. I can take a pic of it and post it here later today.

Also, any suggestions of what I should load to test next range trip? I was thinking of loading 10 rounds each of these charge weights. 37, 38, 39, 39.5, & 40gn.

Here are a few pics of the two best 100yrd groups.

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Anybody have a recommendation on what charge weights to load for the next trip out to the bench?

 

[Rmitch223]

Re: 105 Amax load workup - Beginner needing advice.

Ive worked up from 37gn to 40gn and the rifle is shooting very accurately with 40gn. I'm not sure I will push it anymore. I may try 40.5 and 41gn in the future but right now I'm pretty happy. Shooting 1/2" groups at 100yrds now and 1" groups at 200yrds. I'm very curious as to what velocity I'm getting with this load. Gonna have to get a chronograph asap.