12.7x114mm...

coldboreAU

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Mar 18, 2022
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No thanks way to over bore and cant use the capacity brass wont handle the pressure. Produced by useable capacity if you down load to to handle the pressure it will have ignition problems
i know what you are talking about. But at least in my mind, it works like this: get very strong brass, get a strong action, get a strong barrel and just try it. If it not work, make changes until it will work.
of course I know that too much powder capacity combined with too fast burning powder and you get pressure issues. You cannot fully use the powder capacity because the pressure would be too high.

Take a look at the 30mm and 40mm Canons. They work very well with military propellants. I can't see why it should not work when using the right powder but anyway, this thread starts to go in circles.
 
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Frank Green

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The 375 Warner was the first iteration of our cartridge. The design was taken from the 14.9, with permission from the owner. JH is indeed correct; 3550 was easily done but at the expense of barrel life. At that point, we had no idea barrel like would be that short, specially since we enlisted the help of a company specializing in internal ballistics. So we made the obvious move to increase cross sectional bore density and necked it up to 416. It has about 20gr more capacity than the Barrett and will thake a 550gr projectile to 3100fps on the top end.

The fact that others on this post continue to make false statements about a variety of facts is discouraging. I'd actually venture to say that components for these larger than 50cal cartridges are easier to get than the smaller stuff. Probably because there are fewer people trying to use them.

Frank Green... we need to have a convo on this stuff. I had no ide you were into the bug cartridges to the extent you posted.
Hey Dan! Like I said, “I wish I still had the Lahti that I rebuilt to play with it and shoot it. It is/was pretty cool!”

I did have a single shot 50bmg bolt as well. Just didn’t shoot it enough as well as where I could shoot it at least at a public range wise…nothing I couldn’t do with my other guns.

The other thing that would’ve been cool is to see where/what the 12.7x114 could‘ve done was with barrel life wise and performance wise. Back when I did it there was no such thing as ELR around. My interest in it was primarily to get the Lahti back up and running with out going down the road to reactivate it as a DD. I was even really close to removing the rear iron sight from the mount and was going to make my own scope mount for it so I could shoot it more precisely and see what it could do accuracy wise. Believe me with ELR coming about…and I still had the gun….it would’ve gotten the dust polished off of that rifle and seen the light of day more.

Give me a shout when you have time.

Later, Frank
 

coldboreAU

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Mar 18, 2022
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Austria
So do I think it is possible for them to hit a velocity around 3700ish? I’ll say yes. There are more powder options out there then 20 years ago. Depending on bullet weight and also possible if using a duplex load….I’ll say yes it’s possible.
would love to hear how duplex load works. Is it something like loading fast powder first and then slower powder on top of it? So that the large amount of powder is ignited better?
 

Frank Green

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would love to hear how duplex load works. Is it something like loading fast powder first and then slower powder on top of it? So that the large amount of powder is ignited better?
Yes you have it correct. Even the 20x138b solothurn round from the factory is a duplex type load. Main charge in a sack sat on top of a smaller charge in a sack against the primer.

I know of duplex loads but know nothing about doing it. You better know what the hell your doing before you start playing with duplex loads. Simple as that.

Later, Frank
 

coldboreAU

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Mar 18, 2022
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To the end of the thread. To all who have read this so far. Please NOTE:
it was never my intention here to cause trouble. It was also not my intention to create disagreement between the major players. Do I own any of the following cartridges? NO!!!
375 Warner, 416 Warner, 416 Colossus, 20/50, 12.7x114, 14.9 SOP. I do not own them and i can not judge them. Because I have no first hand experience with these large cartridges. I can only say what I think and try to get some data from the major players.

And now @ the major players. Thanks to everyone who replied and gave me some data. I appreciate it. Please continue your work and your developments. I am looking forward to what will come in the next few years.
 
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oneshot.onehit

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Thank you for starting this thread and I wish it would continue, you have some of the best of the best here that got involved and not all agree with others but all are extremely experienced in different ways and many with actual hands on. This same conversation has happened in the past and creates the level in industry to be pushed to the next stage. Every one here with view points from different angles, opens minds and options or ideas to push forward. This is what makes ELR push forward

Jeff Heeg
 

coldboreAU

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Mar 18, 2022
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First of all, I would like to know if anyone really has experience or knowledge on very slow powders. I'm not talking about v20n29.
 

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Dan Warner

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WC872 is very similar to 20N29 speed wise. We tested it in the 375WTC. It was too slow for that one. Most of what you have on that list is not available for retail sale here in the US unless you find a dealer selling pull down stuff.
 

coldboreAU

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Mar 18, 2022
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@ Dan Warner
yes, most of the listed powders are not available to the public, unfortunately. I do believe a few guys would consider to larger wildcats, at least if the right powder would be available.

@all
Let me continue my thoughts way too far. (Note, numbers are not real, it's just an example) Let's say a major manufactur makes slower powder. Now, anyone who wants can neck down 20mm to what ever(15,14,13,12mm...) because slower powder is avalible for use. Let's say rifle specs: 52" long barrel, action 2.5" thick, weight 80+Ib. So let me continue the idea. In 5-7 years people want more. Somebody get a great idea. "Hey let's neck down 30mm to 17mm or what ever" ohh wait it would take slower powder, again. Okay don't worry, a major manufactur makes slower powder, again. So specs, 3.5" action, 65" barrel, weight 150+Ib. Now, you need a forklift or crane to transport your rifle. I want to say i see the end of the road. That's the reason, higher operating pressure will be necessary to make the cartridges perform better without going larger and larger in size.

I'm not talking about the 14.9 or any other cartridge specifically. I also know talking about neck down 30mm cartridges is just crazy talk but it was just an example to show how the road ends.
 

Dan Warner

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We've considered doing a 30mm wild cat but it is a component road block. No one makes 30mm out of brass, I believe it is all steel..
Correct me if I'm wrong here. But that means a whole different methodology of case work up and prep. Reloadability becomes difficult, cumbersome and almost impossible. That alone takes the idea off the table for most. There are other ways to skin the cat, but still quite costly and unattractive to most.
 

Bandit320

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Just curious. Instead of chasing ever larger cases and projectiles, has anyone recently tried to engineer a quality sabot type system to fire .375, .426,.510, etc. projectiles in a current high capacity case like the 114 or Vulcan? Seems like it would be a good way to increase velocity and effective range.
 

coldboreAU

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Mar 18, 2022
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@Dan Warner
I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who has thoughts on 30mm wildcats. Most people would say I'm crazy to thinking about it. You're right it would require a whole new set of components.

@Bandit320
The problem with sabot bullets, they are not accurate. If you just want to punch holes through steel plates then sabot bullets are fine but not for accuracy.
 
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Bandit320

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Thanks for the response. I know the ones the used to sell weren’t very accurate. I thought, probably incorrectly, that they used the sabot round and it was accurate. I had something like that could be scaled down. As a bit of background I’m not a artillery type of guy, I used guide mistakes and free fall weapons.