Range Report 140 Hybrid vs 140 VLD 6.5 Berger Target Bullets

[ahhshoot]

A couple weeks ago I went to the range and had some Berger Target VLD 140's and some Target Hybrid 140's loaded in Lapua brass and to the same charge weight with the same lot of H4350. Some brass was once fired and some was new and some of the hybrids were CCI BR2 primers whereas the VLD's were all GM210M. I have not chrono'd the VLD's. I am not sure if there will be a velocity difference, but according to the BC I should have about the same dope for 1k yards, if anything slightly less with the hybrids as their advertised BC is .618 vs the .612 of the VLD. On this particular day, my dope to 1000 was 7.9 mil with the VLD as compared to 8.3 with the hybrid. My velocity with the hybrids and 42.8gr H1000 in Lapua brass and GM210M primers out of a 24" Krieger 8 twist is 2,850 fps for my .260 Remington, per our chrono.

Obviously the brass and primers on the initial trip may have had some effect, so for experiment I loaded up 25 VLD's and 25 Hybrids both in a new lot of Lapua brass, same lot primers, same lot powder in the same loading session. I am using the VLD seating depth that has worked best for me so far (I believe it's about 30 thou off the lans but have not touched my seater in a while so I don't remember exactly), and not adjusting my seating die for the hybrids. The two projos look to be sitting in a very similar COAL.

Has anyone else verified the comparative BC's between the VLD and Hybrids, or had experience with the VLD's achieving better velocity? I figure all else being equal it will come down to MV or BC and I will verify this weekend whether MV is equal and obtain drop values for each bullet, and post the results in this thread if anyone is curious.

 

[Milo 2.5]

To me, your numbers are off, if they're both running the same velocity, the hybrid would be the one needing less dope? I'm not sure with which bullet you could achieve the most velocity.

Will say though, I think most of us that run hybrids would ask, why not choose the bullet that you can start a new barrel with and most likely burn it out without as much as a seating depth change? Find a place to shoot to 1600 and then compare, you'll find the hybrid flies better.

 

[ahhshoot]

To me, your numbers are off, if they're both running the same velocity, the hybrid would be the one needing less dope? I'm not sure with which bullet you could achieve the most velocity.

Will say though, I think most of us that run hybrids would ask, why not choose the bullet that you can start a new barrel with and most likely burn it out without as much as a seating depth change? Find a place to shoot to 1600 and then compare, you'll find the hybrid flies better.

Where I shoot we have targets out to 1,500, which I did shoot the hybrids out to that same weekend and ended up with about a 14-16" group of 7 shots. They do very well at that distance, I have not tried the VLD's to 1,500 yet, though. My numbers aren't off, I'm going by what my scope's turret is requiring as we did dope for 0-1500 yards that day in 100 yard increments. The scope is a NF NXS-F1 ZS with MLR 2 reticle, zero'd at 100 yards and almost exactly 2" of scope height. The fact that I had less drop at 1k with the VLD than the hybrid is what is prompting this little experiment, because I agree there should be about the same drop, or less, with the hybrids. That was not the case, though. And yes the hybrids are a better design, it wouldn't cause me to change my preferred bullet. I have noticed accuracy variance on the VLD by changing BTO as little as 10 thou. I will try both out to 1500 as well, if the wind isn't too bad.

 

[Milo 2.5]

My suggestion would be to chrono both loads, to me that's where the discrepancy is coming from. You gave hybrid velocities, and not the vld's. That was the #'s I was referring to.

 

[tigerfan_9]

You need chrono data for both as the bearing surface is different so the same "load" with each will most certainly have different pressure / velocity.

 

[ahhshoot]

That was my thinking as well. This weekend, we will have all else equal besides the bullet. tigerfan, I was leaning towards that explanation as well, however I did not know for sure whether the VLD's had less bearing surface ( I did assume it though so I guess I get a gold star for that ). I'm expecting to see more MV with the VLD's, which if they are still beating the hybrids at 1k and the BC is for all practical purposes identical, might give some incentive to run them even with the finicky seating depth.

 

[MDM]

The bearing surfaces are vastly different. My old load with vld's , oal was 2.855 to the lands and with the Hybrid and same chamber, the coal is 2.890 to the lands. My guess is you are jumping the hybrids about .060-.070 which is probably showing up on the chrony is some way or another.

 

[ahhshoot]

The bearing surfaces are vastly different. My old load with vld's , oal was 2.855 to the lands and with the Hybrid and same chamber, the coal is 2.890 to the lands. My guess is you are jumping the hybrids about .060-.070 which is probably showing up on the chrony is some way or another.

A bit off my original topic, but for craps and giggles, can you tell me how far off the lans your VLD load was? Or if you ran it flush with the lans or jammed? Obviously you've already told me what it is to the lans but if you found accuracy at a jump or jam I'm always curious to know where others have found it. If you remember...

 

[MDM]

I've always jammed any vld's .010 into the lands, it just works. I've even found that jamming the hybrids .010 works awesome too.

 

[ahhshoot]

I've always jammed any vld's .010 into the lands, it just works. I've even found that jamming the hybrids .010 works awesome too.

10-4 I have heard the same, will have to see if that allows me to stay within mag length, thanks MDM

 

[mrbig]

do you zero the vld at 100 and shoot at range than make sure the hybird is zeroed at 100 before shooting at range,,if the bullets hit a couple inches higher or lower than each other at 100 it will show up big time at range,,

 

[ahhshoot]

Hey guys I went to the range and did this test. I did not use the chrono because it was too dark out to get a good reading, however I have found that it must have been the primers or a difference in the brass lots because the hybrids and the VLD's had the same POI at 1000 yards during this outing where everything aside from the projo's were identical. Both were 7.9 mils of elevation to 1000. And both did great we had about 12mph 120º crosswind and only 1.2-1.3 mils of Right windage needed. This confirms that Berger's BC's are pretty close to advertised. FWIW, the VLD's actually seemed to group a little better past 700 in my rifle.

 

[rmfield]

If you don't control velocity in your experiments, you won't get valid comparisons of BCs. Period.