150 gr vs 175 gr vs 180 gr

[Ck4193]

So I have a lot of federal brass that I have saved from shooting. Is there any difference between 175 gold medal and 180/150 fusion brass? They look identical and have the same stamps. I am still learning reloading, so I am trying to find the max grain weight before I even start reloading with them. Does the brass dictate the "never exceed" limit or does the bullet? I am keeping them separate for now, until I figure out the difference.
According to my box (Modern Reloading, Richard Lee), the bullet weight is listed (for example, 175 gr jacketed bullet), the max grains vary depending on powder. It says nothing about the brass.

 

[918v]

The difference will be the same as between different lots of brass. You won’t see it until you try to anneal them depending on the method you employ.

 

[Ck4193]

The difference will be the same as between different lots of brass. You won’t see it until you try to anneal them depending on the method you employ.

So I haven't started anealing yet. Until I start doing that, I can put 43 grains (or whatever) in both casings with a 175 grain bullet and it shouldn't blow out or show much difference?

 

[spife7980]

Does the brass dictate the "never exceed" limit or does the bullet?

Brass, it’s the vessel that contains the pressure, you don’t want to push it beyond what it can contain.

The bullet will basically take whatever you can give it as demonstrated by a 220 bullet being used from a 300 blackout up to a 300 Norma mag for example, squeezes done the barrel just the same.

The brass in the chamber is where the accident boil over.

 

[OREGUN]

So I have a lot of federal brass that I have saved from shooting. Is there any difference between 175 gold medal and 180/150 fusion brass? They look identical and have the same stamps. I am still learning reloading, so I am trying to find the max grain weight before I even start reloading with them. Does the brass dictate the "never exceed" limit or does the bullet? I am keeping them separate for now, until I figure out the difference.
According to my box (Modern Reloading, Richard Lee), the bullet weight is listed (for example, 175 gr jacketed bullet), the max grains vary depending on powder. It says nothing about the brass.

So, the easy answer is that max charge in your book is good for the stated brass, bullet, powder brand and primer they used and is based on a pressure achieved, not a case volume. If you change any of those variables you need to reduce a couple grains below the max and work back toward it as you watch for pressure indications (or you can use a program to Estimate pressure). Brass will have slightly varying internal volumes by brand, for the same case ”size”. Usually max charges in a book are conservative enough that they’ll work in any brass. Usually. Don’t blow your face off.

 

[918v]

So I haven't started anealing yet. Until I start doing that, I can put 43 grains (or whatever) in both casings with a 175 grain bullet and it shouldn't blow out or show much difference?

Yes, if recently manufactured, all of your brass will behave the same. FC brass is pretty consistent. The older stuff was lighter weight.

The current brass weighs about 177 grains and should be treated like military brass so pay attention to load data and adjust the powder charge appropriately.

 

[Ck4193]

Yes, if recently manufactured, all of your brass will behave the same. FC brass is pretty consistent. The older stuff was lighter weight.

The current brass weighs about 177 grains and should be treated like military brass so pay attention to load data and adjust the powder charge appropriately.

All within the last year, I keep all my brass in bags and usually with the original box name. Thank you!

 

[Ck4193]

So, the easy answer is that max charge in your book is good for the stated brass, bullet, powder brand and primer they used and is based on a pressure achieved, not a case volume. If you change any of those variables you need to reduce a couple grains below the max and work back toward it as you watch for pressure indications (or you can use a program to Estimate pressure). Brass will have slightly varying internal volumes by brand, for the same case ”size”. Usually max charges in a book are conservative enough that they’ll work in any brass. Usually. Don’t blow your face off.

Yea the primary goal is to not blow my face off. That is why I am concerned that my book is not listing manufacturers of brass and bullets, only powder. I want to find a different book...
Hypothetical example: In my book, for 175 gr jacketed bullets, Varget says start at 42.0, never exceed 45 gr. I start at 43 grains, I should be conscious of the brass's volume as I increase my grain and work my way up. Both Federal gold medal and fusion brass are produced to withstand the same pressure, the only possible difference may be the volume of powder it will hold? As long as I don't exceed 45 gr., and my overall length still stays within my rifles perimeters, I should be fine.

 

[918v]

43gr of Varget under 175s will be max in that brass.

 

[Ck4193]

43gr of Varget under 175s will be max in that brass.

So this is what scares me, Hodgdon's website says max at 45, my book says max at 45, and I looked up federals after your post, its 43. How do I know whats right!

 

[918v]

So this is what scares me, Hodgdon's website says max at 45, my book says max at 45, and I looked up federals after your post, its 43. How do I know whats right!

Hodgdon uses Winchester brass for their data. Win brass weighs 155 grains. It has a lot more capacity than FC.

 

[lash]

So this is what scares me, Hodgdon's website says max at 45, my book says max at 45, and I looked up federals after your post, its 43. How do I know whats right!

Start low and work up, being conscious of pressure signs. Any pressure signs. Isn’t that what your book says in the opening chapter/s?

 

[Ck4193]

Hodgdon uses Winchester brass for their data. Win brass weighs 155 grains. It has a lot more capacity than FC.

I appreciate that! My face appreciates that...

 

[Ck4193]

Start low and work up, being conscious of pressure signs. Any pressure signs. Isn’t that what your book says in the opening chapter/s?

The goal was to start low, but according to this book, their low is the max for federal brass....

 

[spife7980]

Start with three rounds at 40 and increase in half grain increments with this following article in consideration.

Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc

Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.

www.primalrights.com

While you are shooting your successive groups on paper (this is the first step of load development after all so results are useful) I suggest you pay special attention to the bolt lift while extracting a fired case.
When pressures are low you can easily manipulate it.
As you increase pressure you will notice that it starts to resist lifting up.

I try to avoid it taking noticeable effort to extract a fired case when compared to an empty chamber.
It’s easy and enjoyable to set the cruise control and enjoy the ride vs riding the redline.

 

[Ck4193]

Start with three rounds at 40 and increase in half grain increments with this following article in consideration.

Understanding Pressure :: Primal Rights, Inc

Reading pressure is a required skill that all shooters must have. Whether you are shooting factory ammunition or your own handloads, you absolutely must be able to detect and interpret pressure signs on your fired brass.

www.primalrights.com

While you are shooting your successive groups on paper (this is the first step of load development after all so results are useful) I suggest you pay special attention to the bolt lift while extracting a fired case.
When pressures are low you can easily manipulate it.
As you increase pressure you will notice that it starts to resist lifting up.

I try to avoid it taking noticeable effort to extract a fired case when compared to an empty chamber.
It’s easy and enjoyable to set the cruise control and enjoy the ride vs riding the redline.

Ok, That is extremely helpful! I have noticed that factory hornady 308 rounds are a lot harder to eject compared to the federal I use. i am assuming that is because of over pressure.