I have been looking into this and I want some more info and opinions. I know you have to be 21 to buy a suppressor from a dealer but, I can't find anything saying an 18 y/o can't set up a trust and build with a form 1.
Suppressors 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
- Thread starter MontanaKid
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Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
Pretty positive, an NFA trust can't have any trustees under 21. So it will be a no-go. For more definitive advice you will need to talk to a trust attorney in your state that is familiar with NFA laws.
Pretty positive, an NFA trust can't have any trustees under 21. So it will be a no-go. For more definitive advice you will need to talk to a trust attorney in your state that is familiar with NFA laws.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
I'm still not for sure on anything, but I keep finding a lot of threads with similar info to this.
http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=310274
I'm still not for sure on anything, but I keep finding a lot of threads with similar info to this.
http://3gn.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=310274
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krg648</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody know if all trustees have to live in the state of where the trust is originated from?</div></div>
They do not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: krg648</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody know if all trustees have to live in the state of where the trust is originated from?</div></div>
They do not.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been looking into this and I want some more info and opinions. I know you have to be 21 to buy a suppressor from a dealer but, I can't find anything saying an 18 y/o can't set up a trust and build with a form 1. </div></div>
Federal law allows that. Check with your local laws though.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been looking into this and I want some more info and opinions. I know you have to be 21 to buy a suppressor from a dealer but, I can't find anything saying an 18 y/o can't set up a trust and build with a form 1. </div></div>
Federal law allows that. Check with your local laws though.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
FWIW, when I was 20 I enquired on the matter with our local ATF compliance agents, and was basically told "Start filling out Form 1s!"
You can't Form 4 anything from an SOT, but you <span style="font-weight: bold">can</span> Form 4 from another individual in your same state. There's not exactly a huge market for used suppressors...but they do go up for sale from time to time, and all you need is to find someone willing to sell to you.
FWIW, when I was 20 I enquired on the matter with our local ATF compliance agents, and was basically told "Start filling out Form 1s!"
You can't Form 4 anything from an SOT, but you <span style="font-weight: bold">can</span> Form 4 from another individual in your same state. There's not exactly a huge market for used suppressors...but they do go up for sale from time to time, and all you need is to find someone willing to sell to you.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
Now to find a lawyer in SW Washington. Happy time!
(<borat voice)
Now to find a lawyer in SW Washington. Happy time!
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
I just turned 21 three weeks ago, i've bought two lowers, two bolt rifles, and a shotgun in the past three years. You shouldn't have any problem for form 1 as far as filling it out. I'm not sure about the trust as i think as everyone says you'll need to be 21 for that one.
Form 4 on the other hand is the same age as handguns indeed 21 as you noted.
I just turned 21 three weeks ago, i've bought two lowers, two bolt rifles, and a shotgun in the past three years. You shouldn't have any problem for form 1 as far as filling it out. I'm not sure about the trust as i think as everyone says you'll need to be 21 for that one.
Form 4 on the other hand is the same age as handguns indeed 21 as you noted.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
IANAL, but IMO a trust is just a legal estate device, whether it's for NFA items or not. Any adult 18+ can start a trust. Your trust simply has to comply with NFA laws, and since you are the grantor, the trust has to behave like an 18yo grantor rather than a 21yo grantor. I see no legal reason why you couldn't Form 1 an SBR on your trust at age 18, but you will not be able to take a Form 4 transfer from an SOT on your trust until you are 21.
IANAL, but IMO a trust is just a legal estate device, whether it's for NFA items or not. Any adult 18+ can start a trust. Your trust simply has to comply with NFA laws, and since you are the grantor, the trust has to behave like an 18yo grantor rather than a 21yo grantor. I see no legal reason why you couldn't Form 1 an SBR on your trust at age 18, but you will not be able to take a Form 4 transfer from an SOT on your trust until you are 21.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IANAL, but IMO a trust is just a legal estate device, whether it's for NFA items or not. Any adult 18+ can start a trust. Your trust simply has to comply with NFA laws, and since you are the grantor, the trust has to behave like an 18yo grantor rather than a 21yo grantor. I see no legal reason why you couldn't Form 1 an SBR on your trust at age 18, but you will not be able to take a Form 4 transfer from an SOT on your trust until you are 21. </div></div>
Probably the most helpful post so far, thanks man. One more question, if you pin or weld a suppressor to a 10.5" upper which makes for an over all length of 16", is it considered a SBR?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IANAL, but IMO a trust is just a legal estate device, whether it's for NFA items or not. Any adult 18+ can start a trust. Your trust simply has to comply with NFA laws, and since you are the grantor, the trust has to behave like an 18yo grantor rather than a 21yo grantor. I see no legal reason why you couldn't Form 1 an SBR on your trust at age 18, but you will not be able to take a Form 4 transfer from an SOT on your trust until you are 21. </div></div>
Probably the most helpful post so far, thanks man. One more question, if you pin or weld a suppressor to a 10.5" upper which makes for an over all length of 16", is it considered a SBR?
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200.
No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200. </div></div>
Thanks for the info. Washington doesn't allow SBRs, otherwise I would go with a dedicated SBR.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200. </div></div>
Thanks for the info. Washington doesn't allow SBRs, otherwise I would go with a dedicated SBR.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
If you have a 10.5" upper (not attached to the lower), can you pin/weld a suppressor to make an overall length of 16"? Would it be ok to do that w/o a tax stamp just for the upper alone?
If you have a 10.5" upper (not attached to the lower), can you pin/weld a suppressor to make an overall length of 16"? Would it be ok to do that w/o a tax stamp just for the upper alone?
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
Yes. But you should not have a 10.5" upper and non-registered lower in your possession at the same time. If you buy a 10.5" upper, have it shipped directly to the gunsmith who will be pinning your suppressor.
Yes. But you should not have a 10.5" upper and non-registered lower in your possession at the same time. If you buy a 10.5" upper, have it shipped directly to the gunsmith who will be pinning your suppressor.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
Do you have to have more than 1 person on a trust? I want to include my dad in the trust, but he is a little skeptical of the whole ATF/silencer thing. So if it comes down to it, it might be just me. Any help?
Do you have to have more than 1 person on a trust? I want to include my dad in the trust, but he is a little skeptical of the whole ATF/silencer thing. So if it comes down to it, it might be just me. Any help?
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
That's something that could vary based on state law.
That's something that could vary based on state law.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
Has anybody had any experience with these people?:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/
Has anybody had any experience with these people?:
http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
In a limited fashion, he will forward your request to a sort of laywers guild or perhaps suggest someone in your state.
In a limited fashion, he will forward your request to a sort of laywers guild or perhaps suggest someone in your state.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200. </div></div>
Thanks for the info. Washington doesn't allow SBRs, otherwise I would go with a dedicated SBR. </div></div>
Your best bet is to move from a liberal state like that as soon as possible.
Not all of america is free anymore. But good luck in your future decisions. I dont think it would be THAT bad to have it pinned there.. if you wanted to you could unpin it. It would be ugly though
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200. </div></div>
Thanks for the info. Washington doesn't allow SBRs, otherwise I would go with a dedicated SBR. </div></div>
Your best bet is to move from a liberal state like that as soon as possible.
Not all of america is free anymore. But good luck in your future decisions. I dont think it would be THAT bad to have it pinned there.. if you wanted to you could unpin it. It would be ugly though
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200. </div></div>
Thanks for the info. Washington doesn't allow SBRs, otherwise I would go with a dedicated SBR. </div></div>
Your best bet is to move from a liberal state like that as soon as possible.
Not all of america is free anymore. But good luck in your future decisions. I dont think it would be THAT bad to have it pinned there.. if you wanted to you could unpin it. It would be ugly though </div></div>
It might work out. There are bills that are being considered and with enough support and a good movement from the gun community, the bills will pass and SBRs/SBSs will be legal in Wa. Just last year a bill was passed that allows the use of suppressors in Wa, so I think that the gun community is standing up for itself and calling the state on their stupid restrictions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B-B4</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaKid</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, as long as you conform to ATF's requirements for the method of attachment, then it would NOT be considered an SBR. ATF accepts blind-pinning and welding over the pin, and certain types of silver soldering or brazing/welding. Best bet would be to use a gunsmith who has done this sort of thing before.
On a side note, most people would recommend against this. There are people out there who have done it, but many people feel it is silly to limit yourself to one barrel length and lose the ability to use the suppressor on other guns just to save $200. </div></div>
Thanks for the info. Washington doesn't allow SBRs, otherwise I would go with a dedicated SBR. </div></div>
Your best bet is to move from a liberal state like that as soon as possible.
Not all of america is free anymore. But good luck in your future decisions. I dont think it would be THAT bad to have it pinned there.. if you wanted to you could unpin it. It would be ugly though </div></div>
It might work out. There are bills that are being considered and with enough support and a good movement from the gun community, the bills will pass and SBRs/SBSs will be legal in Wa. Just last year a bill was passed that allows the use of suppressors in Wa, so I think that the gun community is standing up for itself and calling the state on their stupid restrictions.
Re: 18 y/o setting up a NFA trust.
Best place to get legal advice is from a lawyer. Find a good one in your area that handles NFA trusts and get it done right. You'll pay more, but at least you'll have experience behind what you put together.
Best place to get legal advice is from a lawyer. Find a good one in your area that handles NFA trusts and get it done right. You'll pay more, but at least you'll have experience behind what you put together.
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