So I've purchased by first precision rifle, an AI AE mkiii in 308. Been all over the threads and just can't make up my mind what (used) scope I should be shopping for. The rifle is way above my skill level, so I'm okay putting something more inexpensive on it for now, but I almost feel bad like it 'deserves' better! I want to work on my skills, get to where I can have fun trying my hands at PRS eventually... recommendations? Go for broke, or start with something like an SWFA? Thanks.
- Thread starter moarcowbell
- Start date
Go for broke and get something you’re not going to sell to upgrade and take a loss on. ZCO, Tangent Theta, Schmidt and Bender. Schmidt and Bender would be a good fit for an old AI though. @The Durk
What’s your budget?
Find a period scope for it. It will make the whole rig worth more. I waited quite a while to find the right one for mine. 
Budget is important. We can scream out scopes all night but if you want to spend $1000 then not worth typing.
Also if you plan to do PRS style shooting the. Do not get anything but a FFP scope with a good reticle.
Also if you plan to do PRS style shooting the. Do not get anything but a FFP scope with a good reticle.
I hear all this, thanks. I could probably swing a $2500 S&B variable if that wasn't a dumb idea for a newbie... is there any virtue to learning on something like a fixed S&B 10x42? Or nah?
Nah. Stick with a good variable. A 25x top end is a good place but can go a little more if you liked. I wouldn’t go past 36x though.
Lots of good optics under $2500 that will work. Don’t get hung up on looks or “spec” for a rifle. You have anything you are looking at?
Lots of good optics under $2500 that will work. Don’t get hung up on looks or “spec” for a rifle. You have anything you are looking at?
Here's a REALLY nice setup in your price range. I actually have this same setup on a rifle. 36x sounds like a lot of scope, but as far as magnification is concerned, it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it, and not have it. Also, really zooming in at 100 yards for group shooting and testing is really nice.
Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522695-9916-090
FREE SHIPPING on Zeiss LRP S3 6-36x56mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522695-9916-090
American Rifle Company M-BRACE 34mm Picatinny-Style Scope Rings Low
The American Rifle Company M-Brace Scope Rings will hold firmly without marring or indenting the scope, even under the heaviest recoil. The uniquely...
www.midwayusa.com What am I looking at.... I've been alternating between "what does this rifle deserve" and "what do I actually need". For high end, looked at Kahles for a while but it looked like may folks went to (or back to) S&B afterward. I want something pretty rugged so the benchrest/ELR oriented scopes weren't as interesting to me... the AE is a tough gun so I feel like it needs a pretty bulletproof scope ?? Nightforce, as someone suggested... for "what do I actually need" I was more looking at old Leupold Mk4, maybe a fixed 10x of various vintages... SWFA (rugged, workable.) I really don't know. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The rifle doesn’t “need” or “deserve” anything. It’s an inanimate tool. Don’t get drawn into the idol worship of AI. Get a scope that will do the job you need. Do not get an old Leupold or fixed 10x unless you like buying another scope down the road when you find you need more.
The NF NXS mentioned is SFP and not what you will want if you plan to shoot matches in the future. FFP is what you want.
What reticles are you looking at?
The NF NXS mentioned is SFP and not what you will want if you plan to shoot matches in the future. FFP is what you want.
What reticles are you looking at?
I have 3 Kahles K-series scopes, and a Helia KX. They are great scopes. Rugged, robust, and solid. Internet conjecture is just that...Fanboy or hater internet conjecture. Take it all with a grain of salt. Remember, the loudest voices aren't always the majority.
I have tons of Zeiss, Burris, and a NF ATACR F1 5-25x56 MIL-XT. I'm not going to recommend you garbage.
Also, listen to @Rob01 advice in the above post. Don't waste your money on anything Leupold or SWFA. Buy a decent scope. Like he said, don't get caught up in the golden calf syndrome of AI and certain brands of anything in life. At some point, they will ALL let you down. It's a matter of when, not a matter of if. I've had plenty of expensive guns, scopes, equipment, trucks, offroad parts, boats, fishing equipment, and truck parts fail on me over the years...Supposedly "bulletproof"... Well, they weren't.
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I think I really needed to hear this. Especially abound brands. Thank you. Yeah I guess it's all pretty bewildering (and expensive), I didn't want to get overly caught up in spending a bunch of money when I didn't need to, but what I'm hearing is, Get the right tool for the job and work with that. I did want FFP if it was feasible, and I do want MRAD vs MOA because I don't want to get familiar with one system then have to jump ship for no reason when working with other people. Reticles... The Tremor3 looked pretty cool, but I figured for an older S&B maybe just learn on a P4L then re evaluate my options in a few years, if I even wanted to switch to something more modern. From what I was gathering P4L seemed to fall into that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" category, although I worry a little about how hard it would be to do really accurate holdovers with it ? It's all hypothetical to me at this point, I'm just starting out.
Swfa 5-20 while they are still giving them away. Then figure out if you want to upgrade to an alpha
So it seems like you are set on an S&B scope seeing as you keep talking about them. You are falling into the "AI needs an S&B" BS but that's fine. Like you said you are just starting out and you will learn and the S&B is a good scope. I would look at the Gen II XR or the Grid reticle. Both will work better for holds and the Horus reticles are a bit much especially if just starting out.
Thank you for the advice I'll look for those reticles instead! And thanks to all for the input it means a lot.
Definitely get a variable power scope in FFP with a good reticle.
Lot's of scopes on today's market that are feature rich and quality without spending top tier prices.
- Leupold MK5HD (some are less than $2k at Eurooptic)
- Burris XTR Pro ($2.2k at Liberty Optics)
- Steiner T6 series (~$2-2.5k)
- Zeiss LRP S3 (~$2.2-2.5k)
The used market also has great values. Besides the very top tier, most scopes depreciate in value by a good bit. Check out the PX.
Khales (you can find K624's for ~$1600), NF (there's a 4-16 ATACR for $2k shipped right now), Steiner M5 (one in PX for $1900 shipped)
Lot's of scopes on today's market that are feature rich and quality without spending top tier prices.
- Leupold MK5HD (some are less than $2k at Eurooptic)
- Burris XTR Pro ($2.2k at Liberty Optics)
- Steiner T6 series (~$2-2.5k)
- Zeiss LRP S3 (~$2.2-2.5k)
The used market also has great values. Besides the very top tier, most scopes depreciate in value by a good bit. Check out the PX.
Khales (you can find K624's for ~$1600), NF (there's a 4-16 ATACR for $2k shipped right now), Steiner M5 (one in PX for $1900 shipped)
@moarcowbell
I'm kind of in the Zeiss S3 camp also. Not sure why you would need a 6-36. They make this scope in a 4-25 that will be more than adequate. Most people (myself included) stay away from the far ends of the mag range as that is where undesirable characteristics will show up and mirage is indeed a serious consideration with high mag optics, no?
www.eurooptic.com
$2,200
Of course, if you want S&B...go for it. My dear friend @GBMaryland has been a long time S&B guy and loves his.
As for Tremor 3...that's a Horus reticle that they license to scope manufactures...and you can see that in the price increase for scopes with their reticles. Personally, I find them to be too busy but other's love them. Its very personal choice stuff.
LOL
I'm kind of in the Zeiss S3 camp also. Not sure why you would need a 6-36. They make this scope in a 4-25 that will be more than adequate. Most people (myself included) stay away from the far ends of the mag range as that is where undesirable characteristics will show up and mirage is indeed a serious consideration with high mag optics, no?
Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522675-9916-090
FREE SHIPPING on Zeiss LRP S3 4-25x50mm .1 MRAD FFP ZF-MRi #16 Riflescope 522675-9916-090
$2,200
Of course, if you want S&B...go for it. My dear friend @GBMaryland has been a long time S&B guy and loves his.
As for Tremor 3...that's a Horus reticle that they license to scope manufactures...and you can see that in the price increase for scopes with their reticles. Personally, I find them to be too busy but other's love them. Its very personal choice stuff.
LOL
It's hard to recommend S&B these days, I think many other brands represent better value than S&B.
If you want to say under $1800 go with a Tract Toric. 4.5-30x56 Great scope stacks up very well against my Zcomp and S&B's. If you want to stay under $2500 I would go with the Zeiss LRP 4x25 or 6x36. Then you can always pick up a used 4.5x27 Vortex and not have any worries as the warranty is great from Vortex.
I run a a Kahles 6x24 on my AI-AE. I have 2 6x24's and I really like them.
I run a a Kahles 6x24 on my AI-AE. I have 2 6x24's and I really like them.
Scott at Liberty Optics is doing a pretty big 4th of July sale, you might want to consider asking him what you could fit in your budget.
Also usually the good old standby 5-25x56 S&B scopes can be had in the $2500 or less range used.
Also usually the good old standby 5-25x56 S&B scopes can be had in the $2500 or less range used.
As others have said, depends how much you want to spend. These suggestions are kind of in order of price. There may be other good choices out there, but those are the scopes in the $1k-2.5k range that immediately pop into my head.
For $1100ish a used Athlon Cronus BTR off the PX saves you money to put towards a mount, ammo, and other accessories you might want. I’ve had 3 over the years (still have 1) and they’re good scopes IMO. Decent turrets, good glass, good reticles.
If you can get the LE/Mil discount at Expert Voice, a 5.5-30 XTR3i or XTR Pro is a pretty damn sweet deal… you get a lot of scope for the money at the LE/mil price.
A used Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 as mentioned a few posts up isn’t a bad choice either, but for only a bit more than a used G2 Razor sells for (for a few more days anyways) Scott at Liberty is having a sale on Gen 3 Razors for $1900 through 4th of July; that’s less than most people are selling them for used. However, you may have to wait a couple months for delivery. The G3 Razors are well liked, especially after the turret fix, and if you didn’t like it you could sell it for more than you paid for it at the current sale price and try something else.
As mentioned by others, you can also get pretty decent deals on the Zeiss S3s and reports on them have been very good, but keep in mind according to dealers Zeiss is having a price increase in July. Not sure what the new higher price will be.
For a bit less than the Zeiss S3 4-25 you could get one of the new Tract 4-25s, they both come out of the same LOW factory in Japan and share quite a bit of the same OEM design specs and features. I actually like the Tract reticle a bit better than the Zeiss reticle, but I prefer the Zeiss turrets as the Tract elevation turret is freakishly tall when unlocked.
Also as mentioned in a post above, current pricing on new S&Bs is pretty stupid, but a used S&B 5-25 off the PX for $2250ish is a good option provided you find one with a reticle you like. Yes, they tunnel from 5-7x and many of the reticle choices are a bit dated but they’re still damn good scopes optically and mechanically. I still have a bunch of S&B 5-25s and haven’t replaced them because upgrading them all to something better like a ZCO or Tangent would run $1300+ per scope after selling the S&Bs and rolling that money into the upgrade. Hindsight being 20/20, I regret not selling them all when S&B 5-25s were still going for $3100ish used and replacing them with Gen 3 Razors which you could get for about $2k during special sales. Here we are in 2023 and the prices for a used S&B 5-25 and a used Razor Gen 3 are neck and neck… never thought I’d see that.
Also in the mid-$2k range, consider a used Minox ZP5 5-25. Great glass, forgiving parallax, the turrets on the later production models feel good, and I like the MR4 reticle… but if yours ever needs warranty service it’s a bit of a pain and expect a long wait as it has to first go to the US importer/distributor (Blaser) and then make a trip to Germany and back for repairs.
For $1100ish a used Athlon Cronus BTR off the PX saves you money to put towards a mount, ammo, and other accessories you might want. I’ve had 3 over the years (still have 1) and they’re good scopes IMO. Decent turrets, good glass, good reticles.
If you can get the LE/Mil discount at Expert Voice, a 5.5-30 XTR3i or XTR Pro is a pretty damn sweet deal… you get a lot of scope for the money at the LE/mil price.
A used Razor Gen 2 4.5-27 as mentioned a few posts up isn’t a bad choice either, but for only a bit more than a used G2 Razor sells for (for a few more days anyways) Scott at Liberty is having a sale on Gen 3 Razors for $1900 through 4th of July; that’s less than most people are selling them for used. However, you may have to wait a couple months for delivery. The G3 Razors are well liked, especially after the turret fix, and if you didn’t like it you could sell it for more than you paid for it at the current sale price and try something else.
As mentioned by others, you can also get pretty decent deals on the Zeiss S3s and reports on them have been very good, but keep in mind according to dealers Zeiss is having a price increase in July. Not sure what the new higher price will be.
For a bit less than the Zeiss S3 4-25 you could get one of the new Tract 4-25s, they both come out of the same LOW factory in Japan and share quite a bit of the same OEM design specs and features. I actually like the Tract reticle a bit better than the Zeiss reticle, but I prefer the Zeiss turrets as the Tract elevation turret is freakishly tall when unlocked.
Also as mentioned in a post above, current pricing on new S&Bs is pretty stupid, but a used S&B 5-25 off the PX for $2250ish is a good option provided you find one with a reticle you like. Yes, they tunnel from 5-7x and many of the reticle choices are a bit dated but they’re still damn good scopes optically and mechanically. I still have a bunch of S&B 5-25s and haven’t replaced them because upgrading them all to something better like a ZCO or Tangent would run $1300+ per scope after selling the S&Bs and rolling that money into the upgrade. Hindsight being 20/20, I regret not selling them all when S&B 5-25s were still going for $3100ish used and replacing them with Gen 3 Razors which you could get for about $2k during special sales. Here we are in 2023 and the prices for a used S&B 5-25 and a used Razor Gen 3 are neck and neck… never thought I’d see that.
Also in the mid-$2k range, consider a used Minox ZP5 5-25. Great glass, forgiving parallax, the turrets on the later production models feel good, and I like the MR4 reticle… but if yours ever needs warranty service it’s a bit of a pain and expect a long wait as it has to first go to the US importer/distributor (Blaser) and then make a trip to Germany and back for repairs.
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Where are they still going for this price?
Bans can go all around for people starting shit also.
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