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22 Creedmoor Whidden dies - current quality control?

Mr Flannel

Mr Flannel

Self-Licking Icecream
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 3, 2006
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Australia
Looking for feedback from recent purchasers of Whidden reloading dies.

Have read a few threads on this and other forums that indicate they continue to be a bit hit and miss in a QC sense. I’ve bought and subsequently got rid of Whidden dies in 22-250 and 6.5 Lap due to scratching and concentricity issues.

Problem is, I’m currently looking for 22 Creed dies and so far as I can tell, Whidden are the only COTS suppliers of same.

Any feedback on current quality coming out of Whidden?

If they’re still sketchy, I’ll probably use a 6CM die with smaller bushings for FL sizing but not sure what to do about seating?

Cheers
 
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I’m at the bottom end of the planet, so it’s a long way to send them back, if at all. Frustrating that Whidden don’t pay more attention to stuff going out the door. I’ve given them two tries and they’ve struck out both times. With the current exchange rate between the greenback and the Aussie dollar, I pay about 1.4x what you guys do, which makes it even worse.

Anyone got a recommendation on a non-Whidden 22CM seating option?
 
Mr Flannel said:
Do you run it with a 22 seating stem?
Click to expand...

The seating stems won't interchange from size to size because they have different outside diameters. I learned that when setting up my 7-300 norma dies. I took a few apart to figure out what I needed, I ended up using a 300 norma seating die with a vld seater stem. It contacts lower on the bullet but works fine. You could do the same for the 22 creedmoor.
 
I should mention that I used a Redding micrometer seating die.
 
@Bradu thanks a lot for the steer. I’d just need to figure out what the max ID of the 6mm seating stem is beforehand, so I can figure out if the 6mm stem will contact the .224 bullet jacket before it hits the tip.

I also read somewhere that some guys are using a 22-250AI seater die for the 22CM without issue.
 
Mr Flannel said:
@Bradu thanks a lot for the steer. I’d just need to figure out what the max ID of the 6mm seating stem is beforehand, so I can figure out if the 6mm stem will contact the .224 bullet jacket before it hits the tip.

I also read somewhere that some guys are using a 22-250AI seater die for the 22CM without issue.
Click to expand...

This is the vld stem out of my whidden 6 creedmoor dies for a visual using a 105 hybrid.
 

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@Bradu - thanks for taking the time/effort to post that photo. I appreciate it.

@Codiekfx400 - that’s good info. I’m going to be using the alpha munitions brass, so hopefully Forster die will work well with that. I’ll drop them a line.

Gone from 1 option, to quite a few - thanks very much.
 
If I had another bushing to neck down my 6 creedmoor to 22 caliber I would try seating in my 22-250 AI seating die. I have both sets of dies un my reloading cabinet.
 
Mr Flannel said:
@Bradu - thanks for taking the time/effort to post that photo. I appreciate it.

@Codiekfx400 - that’s good info. I’m going to be using the alpha munitions brass, so hopefully Forster die will work well with that. I’ll drop them a line.

Gone from 1 option, to quite a few - thanks very much.
Click to expand...

I have to order a couple things from brownells, would you like me to order a bushing, neck a 6 creedmoor down and try seating with my 22-250 ai die? Or are you planning on going with the 6mm seating die with a vld stem? Let me know and I would be happy to try it.
 
I tried the 6cm 2 die set and was not happy the seating would not seat the bullets at same depth. I would be off as much as .015. I went back to Redding and they were spot on same seat depth every time.
 
@Bradu - thanks very much mate, that’s a very decent and generous offer but please don’t spend any of your hard-earned to facilitate this. I’ve got a message out to Forster to see where they’re going with 22CM dies and my gunsmith has offered to cut an in-line seater using the chamber reamer. I’ve got a bit of time yet, so will try to use that to advantage.

As an aside, one thing I do wonder about with sizing down 6CM (or 6.5CM) Lapua case necks to 22CM with a bushing sizer is the potential for a ‘donut’ that will be left at the shoulder/neck junction. No bushing sizer I know of sizes the entire length of the neck, so there is a unsized portion left at the n/s junction. I’d hate to have to neck turn to clean it up...
 
You shouldn't have any issues chambering when necking down with a bushing die. I had the same concerns since I'm doing a 7-300 norma mag and the gunsmith said it may be a little snug chambering but shouldn't cause an issue. I decided to expand a 7 wsm case up to a 30 caliber then neck it down with bushings, then I chambered it in my 7 wsm barrel. It chambered no problem at all. I neck down .010-.012" at a time and it works great.
 

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Mr Flannel said:
@Bradu - thanks very much mate, that’s a very decent and generous offer but please don’t spend any of your hard-earned to facilitate this. I’ve got a message out to Forster to see where they’re going with 22CM dies and my gunsmith has offered to cut an in-line seater using the chamber reamer. I’ve got a bit of time yet, so will try to use that to advantage.

As an aside, one thing I do wonder about with sizing down 6CM (or 6.5CM) Lapua case necks to 22CM with a bushing sizer is the potential for a ‘donut’ that will be left at the shoulder/neck junction. No bushing sizer I know of sizes the entire length of the neck, so there is a unsized portion left at the n/s junction. I’d hate to have to neck turn to clean it up...
Click to expand...
If I was shooting a 22 Creedmoor I would use 22/250 brass. Or buy 22 creed brass.
 
I’ve got an order in for alpha 22CM brass but it’s about a third again as expensive as lap brass down here at the arse end of the supply chain - and no guarantees when either, hence the interest in necking down 6CM brass.

If I use 22-250 brass, possible to use inert filler/COW or similar for full fireforming? 22CM is a burner, so don’t want to burn 10% of the life just getting cases available for load development...
 
Depending on your accuracy requirements the 22-250 brass should hold 1 moa. I have no info on the filler type of fire forming. I made some 6 creedmoor brass from 22-250 ppu Brass. I just put it through a 6 creed sizing die loaded it and shot it. Came out fireformed and about 20 thou short overall case length.
 
If I can’t get 22CM brass, I’ll probably try both methods (neck down 6CM to 22CM and shoot/FF 22-250 to 22CM) in small batches to see which gives the best results.
 
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Mr Flannel said:
I’ve got an order in for alpha 22CM brass but it’s about a third again as expensive as lap brass down here at the arse end of the supply chain - and no guarantees when either, hence the interest in necking down 6CM brass.

If I use 22-250 brass, possible to use inert filler/COW or similar for full fireforming? 22CM is a burner, so don’t want to burn 10% of the life just getting cases available for load development...
Click to expand...
Did you have success forming that 22-250 brass to 22 Creedmoor?
 
All my 22 Creedmoor brass was once 6 Creedmoor. I turn my necks, slightly before sizing the parent case down. The donut that I get is so small that I don't even have to adjust the neck turner.
 
I just got a set in and they look fine but waiting on the barrel to get in before setting everything up
 
Codiekfx400 said:
Did you have success forming that 22-250 brass to 22 Creedmoor?
Click to expand...

Didn’t end up going that route. I (still) have some Alpha 22CM brass on order. Also got in contact with Forster and they’re tooling up to produce 22CM dies some time in first half of 2019. I’m not in any huge rush, so happy to wait. I won’t buy Whidden again.
 
Mr Flannel said:
Looking for feedback from recent purchasers of Whidden reloading dies.

Have read a few threads on this and other forums that indicate they continue to be a bit hit and miss in a QC sense. I’ve bought and subsequently got rid of Whidden dies in 22-250 and 6.5 Lap due to scratching and concentricity issues.

Problem is, I’m currently looking for 22 Creed dies and so far as I can tell, Whidden are the only COTS suppliers of same.

Any feedback on current quality coming out of Whidden?

If they’re still sketchy, I’ll probably use a 6CM die with smaller bushings for FL sizing but not sure what to do about seating?

Cheers
Click to expand...

So Just put a 100 6C Lapua cases through my non-bushing dies and i got some cases with less than .001 of runout and others with .004. not as consistent as i would have liked
 
Don't shoot a 22 Creedmoor (yet! :)), but I cannot recommend Whidden dies.
I only have one set of Whidden dies, but wouldn't buy another set.

They have some kind of a coating on the inside of the die (almost like a chrome plating). This coating has flaked off near the top of the neck on my full length bushing die. It looks like crap and also scratches the neck/shoulder area of the brass a bit.

Since the dies are very expensive and most reloading companies I've dealt with seem to bend over backwards to make sure their customers are happy, I assumed Whidden would be the same.

Nope. Not even close. I've had several exchanges with John Whidden and he basically accused me of abusing the dies and or running them without a bushing to cause the coating to flake off.
These dies have hardly seen any use and I am anal about having clean brass go through my dies. I have a bunch of Redding and Forster dies with thousands of rounds through them with no issues whatsoever.

Very disappointed... will not send anymore of my hard earned $$ to someone who doesn't care or make any attempt to fix an issue.
 
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I'm only 45 min. away from Forster. I called them a month ago asking the same question, are you going to carry 22 creed dies.
Answer was no. Maybe since then, they've had enough calls to change their minds. I'll call next week and get an answer.
I'll get my name on the list for the seater and a custom honed FL die.
They don't machine it from a block, they have an outside company mill it down and they make it to size.
So it will depend on how fast the other company get them the blanks and they can mill out to 22 creed size.
Should be a little easier, since the base is a 6 - 6.5 creed case, only need to neck it down .
 
I bought a Whidden full length sizer (non bushing) for my .22 Creedmoor, but I don’t care for the Whidden seaters. I bought a Forster .22-250 ultra micrometer seater and a local snipers hide member with a .22 Creedmoor reamer used it to ream the sliding insert for .22 Creedmoor on his lathe. Works great, I really like the Forester seaters.
 
Ranger188 said:
I'm only 45 min. away from Forster. I called them a month ago asking the same question, are you going to carry 22 creed dies.
Answer was no. Maybe since then, they've had enough calls to change their minds. I'll call next week and get an answer.
I'll get my name on the list for the seater and a custom honed FL die.
They don't machine it from a block, they have an outside company mill it down and they make it to size.
So it will depend on how fast the other company get them the blanks and they can mill out to 22 creed size.
Should be a little easier, since the base is a 6 - 6.5 creed case, only need to neck it down .
Click to expand...

Will be interested to hear what they say. Hopefully the answer is still yes.
 
longrange2 said:
I bought a Whidden full length sizer (non bushing) for my .22 Creedmoor, but I don’t care for the Whidden seaters. I bought a Forster .22-250 ultra micrometer seater and a local snipers hide member with a .22 Creedmoor reamer used it to ream the sliding insert for .22 Creedmoor on his lathe. Works great, I really like the Forester seaters.
Click to expand...

How have you found the Whidden sizer? I’ve had two in the past, both of which produced scratched brass with high runout. I keep hoping they’ll pick up their game.

Also interested to hear how easy the Forster seater sleeve was to ream out? Not sure how hard the steel is on those sleeves?
 
I have a Whidden click adjustable F/L sizer non-bushing,and the Whidden seater in 22 CM. I haven't had any issues with them. I have resized 200 pcs of Starline small primer 6mm CM brass with the sizer die,and also have loaded/sized 200 pcs of Alpha 22 CM brass.
I'm only shooting 75 gr Hornady AMax bullets out of mine right now-I have a bunch collecting dust,but my gun shoots them in the high .1's - low .2's off a bench.so I can say the Whidden dies are good to go for me.

r4uuvKJ.jpg
 
Good to hear they’re working out for you. Sounds like you got some that weren’t made on a Friday afternoon or Monday morning ;)

Out of interest, how fast have you got those 75s going? BBL length/twist?
 
Mr Flannel said:
How have you found the Whidden sizer? I’ve had two in the past, both of which produced scratched brass with high runout. I keep hoping they’ll pick up their game.

Also interested to hear how easy the Forster seater sleeve was to ream out? Not sure how hard the steel is on those sleeves?
Click to expand...


The sleeve didn’t seem to be hardened or anything and cut easily. Because the chamber part of the sleeve was slightly deeper a small amount was turned off on the bottom edge of the sleeve to allow clearance for the shell holder. The Whidden sizer is working fine so far.
 
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Mr Flannel said:
Good to hear they’re working out for you. Sounds like you got some that weren’t made on a Friday afternoon or Monday morning ;)

Out of interest, how fast have you got those 75s going? BBL length/twist?
Click to expand...

I'm shooting a 20" X-Caliber,1-7 twist,suppressed. Velocity with H4350 is 3400 fps,it was a little over 3500 with RL26 but the groups & ES/SD #'s were really bad.
 
Txhillbilly said:
I'm shooting a 20" X-Caliber,1-7 twist,suppressed. Velocity with H4350 is 3400 fps,it was a little over 3500 with RL26 but the groups & ES/SD #'s were really bad.
Click to expand...

3400 is fairly punting along out of a 20" - and you wouldn't get that much extra with the can either..(y)
 
Just an update. Called Forster today ( 12-27-18 ) They have talked about a 22 creedmoor die, but at this time
they don't have a date to begin making them. So I'm guessing still at least months away.
These companies need to get ahead of the hot calibers not follow and be late to the party.
It's not like they wear out and need to be replaced constantly.
 
Mr FLannel... any updates on what you decided to use for necking down and seating?
 
browning442 said:
Mr FLannel... any updates on what you decided to use for necking down and seating?
Click to expand...
Hi mate. I’m not necking down. Have some Alpha Munitions 22CM SRP brass on order and at this stage will be having my smith cut me a sizer and seater. Although I did see recently that Hornady are mfg dies for the 22CM...
 
Gotcha. Was curious as my 22 CM should be done in a few weeks. I have 6 creed redding dies, and just ordered a bushing for them (.251), and a 22 seater stem, hoping that gets the job done till hornady gets dies done. If it works well i'll just order another set for my 6 creed maybe.

Going to neck down lapua and see how she goes.
 
yes and i found some brass at Alphamunitions small rifle p
 
Awesome. What sort of dies - bushing type?

Any chance of a product code/#, so I can do a search?
 
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