.223/5.56 First Time Reloading Question

[TuskenRaider]

So I have some Hornady 75gr BTHP bullets and once fired .223 brass from Hornady Superformance Match. This will be my first time reloading and I am trying to figure out what load data I should use. The Hornady manual doesnt have anything for the 75gr under .223 but it does have it under the service rifle and 5.56 section. I understand the brass dimensions between .223 and 5.56 are the same but the SAMMI specs are different. I'm not trying to fully develop a load here just trying to figure out something safe and decent. The rifle is chambered in .223/5.56 with 1 in 7 twist.

 

[padom]

Varget, 8208XBR, Tac, RE15, H4895, AR Comp and CFE, BLC2, etc... all of these work fine. Some are better than others. I prefer 8208

 

[TuskenRaider]

Thanks for the help. I'm more so trying to figure out the max charge for the 75gr and .223 brass. The manual doesnt have any info on that particular combination.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

You have to select a powder before you can get a max charge weight.

 

[padom]

Hornady brass is softer. You need to do load workup with your powder of choice and check for pressure after shooting each charge weight. I can tell you with those 75 BTHP you want to load 23.0 - 23.8 in 0.2gr increments with 8208XBR to find your charge. Most find their node with this combo at 23.6g.

 

[TuskenRaider]

I haven't selected a particular powder yet. I am going to see what I can find locally today. Which is probably going to be difficult here in NY.

 

[pmclaine]

The controversy 5.56 vs .223 in my mind only matters depending on what chamber your barrel is marked for.

I do believe that if your barrel is marked .223 there MAY be an issue firing 5.56 ammo.

If your barrel is marked 5.56 NATO than I BELIEVE you can load anything and have fun.

The issue is a pressure issue not so much the slight SAAMI shoulder difference.

Mil 5.56 is generally loaded to higher pressure than commercial .223 and there is the issue.

Prior to the internet I understand no one ever cared or discussed this.

I recommend 8208XBR for a powder and listen to @padom.

 

[pmclaine]

PS - unless you purchased some custom ground dies as far as I know there are no 5.56 dies readily available. All are .223 SAAMI spec.

So just about all the manuals are confusing their customers.

 

[padom]

Look at the test rifle at the top of your .223 Rem and 5.56 pages in your reloading manuals. I also have .223 and 5.56 pages in my reloading manuals. The test rifle noted at the top of the .223 Rem pages is usually a bolt gun 26"....The 5.56 and/or Service Rifle pages are usually 20" AR's....Thats what you want.

 

[TuskenRaider]

That's essentially what I am trying to figure out. Can I use the 5.56 load data from the manual on .223 brass? The barrel markings say it can handle both .223 and 5.56.

 

[natdscott]

Is this for a bolt or gas gun?

Usually, something between 23.5-24.5 grains of Reloder-15, or equivalent Varget (ie: a little less) will get it well-done, regardless of max charge.

 

[TuskenRaider]

Bolt

 

[TuskenRaider]

It's a Ruger American Ranch. Just looking for something to plink some steel.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

75's are overkill for casual steel plinking. I use the Hornady 62gr HPBT from Midsouth over 27gr of CFE as my generic mid range load. Just happens to shoot sub moa out of my sons Ruger American Ranch at around 2900 fps.

 

[padom]

Ok, if we are talking a bolt gun then things get different. You can seat those 75's out longer and load more powder before seeing pressure signs than in an AR.

Example, here is your 75 BTHP shot out of my 26" .223 Wylde to break in a barrel.




Go pick your powder and report back what you got (Varget, H4895 and 8208XBR being a close third) would be what you want for a 223 bolt gun. Then I can give you some actual data. Right now asking for max charges for 223 with an unknown powder is a waste of time.

 

[padom]

75's are overkill for casual steel plinking. I use the Hornady 62gr HPBT from Midsouth over 27gr of CFE as my generic mid range load. Just happens to shoot sub moa out of my sons Ruger American Ranch at around 2900 fps.

Depends what distance your plinking steel at but as cheap as 75BTHP are I think they are a great plinking mid range bullet from a 223 bolt gun. I shoot tons of them out to 700

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've had fun with the 62's out to 600, after that they don't ring steel well enough to hear and I wouldn't trust an RO to call hits in a match beyond 500. But they're only .10 cents per so I love them for positional practice and it's easy to get my sons hitting at 500 for cheap.

 

[pmclaine]

I try to jump on the Nosler CC 77 grain seconds when they come up on the Pro Shop website.

I suspect in their ersatz SMK wanna be manufacture they are not up to the standards of the green box but they allow magazine length in an AR at the highest weight ratio.

Ive got a .223 bolt gun at a gunsmith now awaiting build. It will be my first .223 bolt everything else I have is AR. Looking forward to seeing what a simpler bullet launcher will do.

 

[natdscott]

I try to jump on the Nosler CC 77 grain seconds when they come up on the Pro Shop website.

I suspect in their ersatz SMK wanna be manufacture they are not up to the standards of the green box but they allow magazine length in an AR at the highest weight ratio.

Pretty good idea.

I think the Nosler stuff is equal to Sierra for 99 bullets in a box. It's that one thoigh.

I can't say personally. I just know you don't see many High Masters that shoot anything except green box and yellow box, or a boutique. Maybe a few Hornady.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

That's my chambering and bullet, I use Varget (for all my 223/5.56 loads). I got my min/max load data from the Hodgdon site. It says 24.6gr max with the 75.

I chose 24.4gr as a personal max load with Varget and fired it in comp at 600yd. It worked, and the (new Winchester) brass came out without ejector swipes, the primers were flat/cratered, but not greatly so. I used the load in a 24", 1:9" Savage and a 24", 1:8" Stag, and they held the 9 ring at 600yd (1500ft altitude) with two different shooters, myself and my Granddaughter.

For several years (maybe getting up near ten years), I was using the HDY 75gr HPBT-Match at 300yd and 800ft altitude in both of the above guns, and used a reduced load (23.7gr Varget) with excellent accuracy and moderate pressure (the brass/primers show a lot less pressure indication).

These days, living and shooting at 4200ft Altitude, the 23.7gr Varget load (in new Starline brass) has returned to being my goto load. For all but actual match shooting, I use the CCI 400 primer, and the BR-4 for competition. The difference is so subtle, I'm not really sure the BR-4's are doing anything but costing me more.

Unless you're shooting max distances - 600yd and beyond - at much lower altitudes, the near max load is not really needed. Start your load testing in the 23.5gr-23.7gr range with Varget. I doubt you'll end up more then .2gr out of that range, if at all. Be aware that the 75 is far from immune to wind at 300yd, but if you can manage the wind, it's stellar.

I don't know much about the Ranch rifle, and have reservations about the 75 in any 1:9" twist with significantly shorter barrels; I would be more comfortable using a 1:8" or even 1:7" twist in shorties. If you find it keyholing, step down to the 65-69gr bullet range. The Sierra 65gr Gameking is a very accurate bullet with good terminal performance on medium size game.

Greg

 

[spife7980]

The ranch is a 1-8 and should be fine with the 75s

 

[TuskenRaider]

I misspoke, the ranch is a 1 in 8.

What I was trying to figure out is if you could load .223 brass with 5.56 reload data. According to what you gentleman are saying is you can as long as the rifle is chambered for 5.56.

 

[spife7980]

Typically 5.56 have an indentical chamber to 223 but uses thicker brass for less internal volume (more pressure) but it also has a longer throat for the longer heavier bullets which lets a bit of that pressure out in blow by.

You can use the 5.56 brass and recipes but just work your way up (like you should with anything!!) and watch for pressure.
The issue arises when you take a hot 5.56 and jamming the long heavy bullet deep in the lands of the normal 223 chamber. Take measurements and load for your rifle and you’ll be fine.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think you'll enjoy the Ranch Rifle if it is anything like my Mossberg MVP Predator.

I mounted mine up with a Bushnell AR Drop Zone 3-12x40 BDC and it loves the GI 55/62gr loads which conform very nicely to the BDC reticle at least out to 300yd, and the Fed Fusion 62gr MSR load is dead nutz and looks to have appreciable terminal performance, too. Mine's a 1:9" and I haven't tried the 75's with it, I have doubts.

Time to find out for sure.

Something you might also try is the Hornady 75gr Steel Match loads. Take a moment to view the videos.

Greg

 

[padom]

Forget the 5.56 vs 223 for reloading. Load your brass with the 75's and work up with the powder you choose. Stop when you see pressure. That's it.

 

[natdscott]

Typically 5.56 have an indentical chamber to 223 but uses thicker brass for less internal volume (more pressure) but it also has a longer throat for the longer heavier bullets which lets a bit of that pressure out in blow by.

That first bit is untrue, but you kinda contradicted yourself with some true.

The 5.56 NATO has about a 0.226" freebore, where most .223 and Match chambers are 0.2240-0.2245". That's not FOR pressure. It is there for reliability despite poor chamber conditions and with damaged ammunition. I suppose though, with a clean chamber and straight, clean ammo, SOME pressurized gas may 'blow by'.

But the HUGE difference is that throat length bit. NATO is I think about 0.055" before chroming, which is just shy of a Wylde at about 0.060".

.223 SAAMI-ish chambers are usually only in the 20's and 30's.

That's a difference that cannot be misunderstood by the handloader, particularly if loading for an autoloader that may not give positive feedback that you just loaded an dangerous round until it blows up.

You can begin to see, in an age of people wanting to shoot longer bullets in longer loads, why manufacturers would latch on to such a catchy item as a ".223 Wylde" in their efforts to combine safety, sales, and accuracy.

 

[TuskenRaider]

At a cabelas now. Not seeing any varget or CFE 223. What else would be a good choice for powder?

 

[natdscott]

Reloder-15. AA2520. VV N140 or N540. 8208XBR. IMR 4064.

What DO they have?

 

[TuskenRaider]

They didn't have much honestly. Mostly Hodgson stuff but even that was slim pickings. They had H322, Benchmark and BCL2. I grabbed the BCL2. Only small rifle primers they had were CCI #450.

 

[TuskenRaider]

Sorry meant BLC 2

 

[padom]

Blc2 ok for the lighter stuff. Never had good luck with BLC2 and heavies