.223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

[Paulinski]

Does anyone run into this problem?

I'm loading 24.5gr of Varget at mag length 2.260" using Hornady and Forster Competition seater.

I know I;'m compressing the powder but why the hollow point are getting slightly mangled? (Can't be good for accuracy)

Thanks

Pauli

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Have you tried using another seating die?

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Your die pushes on the tip of the not on the sides (further down the ogive) of the bullet. Actually below the tip of the bullet. With 24 grains of Varget I get a mark around the bullet where the Redding Competition die pushes on the 77's.

 

[Paulinski]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

I get the mark too. I guess I will have to live with it.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

How mangled is mangled? Deformed or a ring around the tip? Is the ring deep or scratch depth? It can be polished or if you have time to wait call the maker to see about reprofiling the seater.

 

[i_Adam_i18]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

I've gotten marks on compressed loads as well but never a deformed tip. It sounds like your seating die is seating off the tip instead of the ogive.

 

[spot69221]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

If you mean mangled = squeezed smaller below the tip of the bullet, you probably have too much neck tension while seating.

or

to compressed with the 77's, if you don't seat all the way does it 'mangle'

 

[427Cobra]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

I run .002 neck tension, then crimp with a Lee FCD, by doing it this way a Plano Hornady die leaves no marks with Hornady 68 and 75 BTHPs

 

[GOING FOR 2000]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Take your seating plug to someone with a lathe, drill a relief hole up into the adjustment shank. Don't make it too big or too deep, use one of your bullets for a guage just enough that the Ogive is firmly seated in the plug and the tip does not touch.

Had to do that for my .338, Lapua solids were not resting on the Ogive, tips were hitting the top of the seater plug. RCBS did it for free as it was their die.

 

[usmcsniperone]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Redding makes VLD seater to replace the standard seater in their dies. I had them turn mine about 11 years ago because I was crushing 75-amax's on top of compressed load. They must of took it to heart and made one for retail. Good people at Redding.

 

[Paulinski]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Pics

Any ideas why this is happening?

Thats with the Forster Competition Seater - compressed 24.5gr of Varget to mag length 2.260"

 

[SMH]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

I always have the same problem with heavily compressed loads.
I suggest using less powder, increased OAL or use a different die.

I load .308 155 Amax with my Hornday dies over a heavy dose of Varget. It leaves a slight ring that can be seen but not felt. I can NOT use those dies with the longer 155 Lapua Scenars over the same powder charge. The "ring" will actually be dented and the tips will be very slightly affected. My RCBS dies will however work with that load. (occasionally dinging the tips but not crushing the ogive)

I experienced similar issues with 55gr Vmax and Varget. I received a "crush ring" before I reached max loads of Varget. In this case I didn't mind as I found an amazingly accurate load far enough under max that the bullets survived the seating.

Using a drop tube, settling the powder and seating slowly helped to a small extent. Brass with a higher internal capacity might help as well.

 

[NickT]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Load em and go shoot em, that ring won't hurt a thing.

 

[Tactical30]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SMH</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always have the same problem with heavily compressed loads.
I suggest using less powder, increased OAL or use a different die.

I can NOT use those dies with the longer 155 Lapua Scenars over the same powder charge. The "ring" will actually be dented and the tips will be very slightly affected. My RCBS dies will however work with that load. (occasionally dinging the tips but not crushing the ogive)
</div></div>

I also had the same problem with the Forester Comp. Seaters denting the rings in on my 108gr. Scenar loads for my 6.5 Grendel.
I bought the Redding 6.5 Grendel Die set (D-series) and have yet to have a problem.

Thats just ANOTHER reason why i dont use the Forester Comp. Seater dies. I just keep running into problems with them. I should have bought the Redding dies from the start.

 

[Paulinski]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

I'm not as worried about the ring as much.

Take a look at the tip see how its deformed.

It really shows in the top picture as the tip is no longer uniform but one side is crunched in.

Any ideas how to avoid this?

 

[Country]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

This is no good at all the meplat is all out of square.
You need to take the die apart and look up inside the seating stem. It may have a burr or garbage inside it. Or it may not have been machined properly . It should not crunch the meplat like that. This is why I stick with Redding comp dies , I have never had that kind of trouble .

 

[NukeMMC]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1000 YDS. IS FUN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Take your seating plug to someone with a lathe, drill a relief hole up into the adjustment shank. Don't make it too big or too deep, use one of your bullets for a guage just enough that the Ogive is firmly seated in the plug and the tip does not touch.

Had to do that for my .338, Lapua solids were not resting on the Ogive, tips were hitting the top of the seater plug. RCBS did it for free as it was their die. </div></div>

This is good advice to help cure your meplat issues. Just have someone counterbore the seating plug with a 1/8" drill. Just deep enough to clearance for the meplat.

 

[spot69221]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: spot69221</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you mean mangled = squeezed smaller below the tip of the bullet, you probably have too much neck tension while seating.

or

to compressed with the 77's, if you don't seat all the way does it 'mangle'</div></div>

Same thing I had happen on some of my loads. I found that I had too much neck tension. Also a compressed load will exaggerate a crimp ring on the bullet. Looks like you may have combined the two. This can happen with VLD seaters as well.

 

[usmcsniperone]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Paulinski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pics

Any ideas why this is happening?

Thats with the Forster Competition Seater - compressed 24.5gr of Varget to mag length 2.260"

</div></div>

I've seen quite a few sierra bullets that had tips like that right from the factory. Tried to load them as far out as possible and still fit in the mag. for highpower rapid fire stages. Finally gave up on them and went to berger for mag. length.
Looking at your pics it doesn't look like you canfered the inside of the case much or at all. IMO the case looks like you just stuffed a bullet in a new case without deburring or canfering it.
If thats what happened, it would add to the force it would take to seat the bullet.
Check the rest of that lot of bullets and I bet you find more tips like the one in the pic.

 

[hill billy]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: usmcsniperone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Looking at your pics it doesn't look like you canfered the inside of the case much or at all. IMO the case looks like you just stuffed a bullet in a new case without deburring or canfering it.
</div></div>Looks to me that the cases have the small chamfer left by a Giraud and if that's the case it would have done the inside as well.

 

[TaterInTheSouth]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

Just a guess...But, Don’t critique my illustration too hard, It gets the point across.

 

[usmcsniperone]

Re: .223 - 77gr SMK - seating die mangling tips?

I like your illustration, and I have done that a few times myself. The thing is when that happens your press handle comes to a complete stop and you back it out to see WTF happened.
Most of the time I have found that I didn't have the case all the way into the shellholder and the bullet was tipped alittle in the case and hit the bottom of the seater as your illustration shows. The tip in his pic is a sierra F-up I believe as I have seen them before.