223 and Berger 85.5g LR Hybrid?

[kyotekiller25]

Anyone shoot the Berger 85.5s out of a bolt 223 Wylde? If so how's the accuracy and speed?

I'm not sure these 75g ELDMs are going to be what Im looking for. They're just being inconsistent pieces of fuck really. They'll shoot good 1 day and so so the next. But, regardless I always have a little a flyer or two, depending on if I do 3 or 5 shot groups. I've got the charge nailed down, or so I thought. So I did a seating depth test today, and they all shot the same. Not a shits worth of difference, and of course I had 2 little flyers on all the groups also. I mean 5 shot 3/4 MOA isn't terrible, but I think the rifle is definitely capable of a lot better than that.

So it got me thinking maybe I just need to try another bullet or two. I've been working with the 75 eldm since day 1, tested 5 different powders and finally settled on N540 at 24.7g for 2950-2975fps. It shoots anywhere from 1/3-3/4 MOA at 100,200,300 yards. I just feel like a 15# 223 with a Bartlein should shoot a little better and more consistently than this...Especially when I see all these 1 hole 1/4 MOA groups on here from others using them.

What other bullet out there is accurate, has a high BC, readily available, and will still kill coyotes as well as an ELDM? I was looking at the Sierra 77g TMK, but they're pretty tough to find usually. Was also looking at the Berger 85.5 with the .524 BC it looks like a great option for a 1K trainer also.

Here's my recent powder charge test at 200, and seating depth test at 100, with the 75 eldm and N540. I went with 24.7 based off the charge testing, 3 shot 3/4" at 200 and good ES. I've been doing everything at 10 off the lands since day 1. So I then did a seating depth test at 100 today at 10, 15, and 20 off and they all shot the same. 3/4" 5 shot groups at 100. Am I missing something with these ELDMs or just maybe the rifle doesn't prefer them? All I'm asking is consistent 5 shot 1/2 MOA or better, not to much to ask from a custom 15# 223 with a Bartlein in my opinion.

 

[Kickin45]

What twist and length is your barrel?

 

[kyotekiller25]

Its a 28" Bartlein 8 twist. Plenty to shoot a 75g ELDM. That's not the problem. Not when I see a million other 8 twist 24"-26" shooting 1 ragged hole with em...I mean you can see and tell it wants to shoot them well, I just can't kick the little flyers. It's doing 2 and 1 out, or 3 and 2 out all the damn time.

All loads are weighed on a balance beam to the exact number, all the same ogive length to half a thousandth. Rear bag and front Rest. Not pulling any shots.

 

[ma smith]

Bartlein 8 twist. Plenty to shoot a 75g ELDM. That's not the problem.

LOL...read the box...

 

[ma smith]

Btw, you can't shoot 85.5 out of 8 twist either

(reliably)

 

[kyotekiller25]

Great advice, keep it coming

So I guess a million other guys can't read either...Hmmm weird how the hornady book says 8 twist is fine, Hornady techs say 8 twist is fine, and a million other guys shoot them in 8 twists just fine accurately out to 1200 yards. Now why is that? You're telling me they won't shoot in an 8 twist? Lol ok. I mean clearly they shoot decent enough, just not 1/4 MOA...

And FYI, berger states that the 85.5 will also shoot in an 8 twist just fine.

You don't need 7 twists for everything these days.

 

[st1650]

Use the Berger 80.5 especially in a wylde chamber

 

[kyotekiller25]

Use the Berger 80.5 especially in a wylde chamber

I was looking at that bullet also.

Also maybe the 77g TMK?

This has a little longer throat than a standard Wylde, not much only by .020"

My COAL to lands is 2.510" with the 75g ELDM.

I believe its around 2.490" in the standard Wylde

 

[Dolomite]

Try some 80 gr SMK, their pointed from the factory.

 

[ma smith]

So I guess a million other guys can't read either..

again, jus saying to at least read the fine print...eg

If the 75 Eld is the same as A-max wonder why they changed the twist rate on them from 1/8 to 1/7.

or, elsewhere...eg

Here's berger's (unpublished) in-house load data for 85.5...guess why its unpublished...

The reason nobody shoots the 85.5? It's too slow in 223 rem, which is why the data for short (ie normal) barrels isn't public. Even inside of capstone, nobody even bothered to pressure test it in sub-30 inch barrels...

In 8 twist, after you punch in slow MV+ 8-10% reduced BC, per Bergers own ballistic/stabilty calculator(s), you will find out the whole exercise is pointless.

eta -
85.5 Bullet is great at 2,950 MV but you typically need upgraded case capacity.
(eg 224 valk, 22-br, 22-gt, 22-creed etc).

 

[ma smith]

Use the Berger 80.5 especially in a wylde chamber

+1

 

[kyotekiller25]

I've got a 28" barrel, so it is on the longer side.

Ok, so I may scrap the 85.5 idea, maybe buy a box just to see, won't hurt.

Thinking of the 77 TMK, 80 SMK, or 80.5 Berger

Also not gonna totally give up on the 75 ELDM just yet. It is virgin Lapua brass, so maybe it might do a little better once they're all 1x fired.

Kinda kicking myself in the ass right now for not going with a 7.5 twist.

Reason I went 8 twist is because I had zero intention of shooting anything heavier than the 75 ELDM, and I'm also going to work up a 53g VMAX load for coyotes/varmints and the splat factor. Also read more than enough and seen enough guys using the 75 ELDM with an 8 twist just fine out of 24-26" tubes at 2900fps.

 

[Mauser48]

I went 1:7 because that's what the gunsmith had on hand. Glad I did because I see no reason not to for shooting 75gr + bullets exclusively. I'm hoping to get to the range tomorrow to try the sierra 80 smk through my bartlein. I know the 77s shoot lights out. Your groups with the 75 eldm pretty much mirror mine with the 80 eldm. Sierra mathckings seem to just shoot in almost anything so I'm confident the 80s will work.

 

[beetroot]

I've got a 28" barrel, so it is on the longer side.

Ok, so I may scrap the 85.5 idea, maybe buy a box just to see, won't hurt.

Thinking of the 77 TMK, 80 SMK, or 80.5 Berger

Also not gonna totally give up on the 75 ELDM just yet. It is virgin Lapua brass, so maybe it might do a little better once they're all 1x fired.

Kinda kicking myself in the ass right now for not going with a 7.5 twist.

Reason I went 8 twist is because I had zero intention of shooting anything heavier than the 75 ELDM, and I'm also going to work up a 53g VMAX load for coyotes/varmints and the splat factor. Also read more than enough and seen enough guys using the 75 ELDM with an 8 twist just fine out of 24-26" tubes at 2900fps.

You're not crazy, I would've guessed you would be fine with your barrel length and 75 ELD-Ms, even Hornadys website says 1:8.

You could try 73gr ELD-Ms, they should be more tolerant to a slower twist and the BC is similar to that of the 75.
The 75 BTHP could also be worth trying, the BC is listed as .395 but have seen guys using as low as .355. The additional speed from your long barrel my help.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Yah I don't think by twist/barrel length is the issue here either honestly.

I do have some 73g ELDMs and 75g BTHPs I bought for my AR.

Going to try a few more seating depths a bit deeper up to 50 off, try a different primer (CCI 450). May also try the upper node at 25.2-25.4 at 3050fps.

Talked to a few guys who say N540 likes to be ran a bit hard , and also does better with the 450. So we'll see. I've got 5# of N540 and 15 boxes of 75 ELDMs so it won't hurt to keep trying.

 

[st1650]

I went 1:7 because that's what the gunsmith had on hand. Glad I did because I see no reason not to for shooting 75gr + bullets exclusively. I'm hoping to get to the range tomorrow to try the sierra 80 smk through my bartlein. I know the 77s shoot lights out. Your groups with the 75 eldm pretty much mirror mine with the 80 eldm. Sierra mathckings seem to just shoot in almost anything so I'm confident the 80s will work.

SMK 80 is my second favourite 224 bullet for a long throat 223 Rem match. The BC isn’t as sexy as the 80 ELD-M or the Berger 80.5 but they require no tuning and are very consistent. Perfect bullet for less than 600 yards. I loaded mine at 2.525in and been 1/4 moa with both XBR and Varget.

 

[Mauser48]

SMK 80 is my second favourite 224 bullet for a long throat 223 Rem match. The BC isn’t as sexy as the 80 ELD-M or the Berger 80.5 but they require no tuning and are very consistent. Perfect bullet for less than 600 yards. I loaded mine at 2.525in and been 1/4 moa with both XBR and Varget.

The berger 80.5 bc is .441 and the sierra 80 smk is actually. 461. I believe it used to be .420 and they up rated it when they started pointing them. The bergers I can never find in stock so that doesn't do me any good. Unfortunately I was not able to try out the sierras today.

 

[DstRflMn645]

Don't know what you guys are reading about the Berger 85.5, but I just did a stability check on Berger's website and the 8 twist is marginally stable, almost in the middle of the marginal range, whilw 7 twist is comfortably stable. The .223 Remington Palma shooters are all using a 7 or even a 6.8 twist.

John

 

[just browsing]

77SMK/TMK were really developed with small frame ARs in mind, and their BCs are reflective of that. Really pretty poor performers beyond 5-600 yards.

I’ve had great luck with the factory pointed 90SMKs and to a lesser extent, 85.5s. But my barrel is also a 7t with a .125fb…

The 80.5 fullbores, 80SMK, and 80ELDs are really entirely different bullets than their lighter counterparts, so given your barrel/chamber situation, I’d probably be looking at one of those options.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I shoot 85.5 out of a 1-7. They are laser beams

 

[beetroot]

If you wanted to try a different powder you could try Benchmark.
It's not often spoken about in these heavier bullets but I've found it to give much better velocity than Varget.

A different seating depth would probably be a better place to start though.

 

[kyotekiller25]

If you wanted to try a different powder you could try Benchmark.
It's not often spoken about in these heavier bullets but I've found it to give much better velocity than Varget.

A different seating depth would probably be a better place to start though.

I could try Benchmark. I have 6# of it. Didn't fare to well in the original 300 yard ladder test though, overall group was huge compared to N540 and 4895, and I was only able to get it up to around 2920fps at 23.5g Maybe worth shooting some groups though.

Going to try a few shorter seating depths first, then a primer swap, then running N540 a bit higher and see what happens before I switch powder/bullets.

With that said, if I do end up switching bullets, I've scratched the 77 TMKs as the BC just isn't enough to get me out to 1K. Will either be the 80g SMKs or 80.5 Bergers. Neither one of them outdoes the 75 ELDM however which is why I'm hell bent on getting them to work the way I want. Plus they are 25% cheaper and I know they're better dog bullets also. Those SMKs and Bergers with their small cavities won't open up like the ELDM will once the impact velocity starts to slow down.

Here was the ladder test from Benchmark

 

[st1650]

75 ELD-M loves varget and XBR. Try 23.5 XBR and 24.5 Varget +/- 0.5 gr. 15-30 thou off the lands. Guaranteed you'll find something that works ...

Also I'd use 450s or Rem 7 1/2 rather than CCI 400 at those pressures ...
Was getting 2900 FPS out of my 22in barrel. Now getting 3000 FPS out of my 26in barrel. Easy 1000 yards

 

[kyotekiller25]

So that was before I got my bolt bushed. I did 4 ladders with IMR/H4895/Benchmark/IMR8208XBR with the 400s but after those I figured out I needed my bolt bushed and to swap to a thicker cupped primer. I have been using the 7.5s with N540 this whole time since. Going to use the 400s in the AR for now.

I don't have any Varget, and can't find it either so that's a no go.

Here's the ladder with 8208XBR and it did ok, but nothing spectacular. Maybe 23.6-23.8 shows a possible node around 2925fps or so, and those 2 shots landed real close to each other at 300 yards. This is the result from it. And I'm down to my last pound of it, and if I'm not mistaken they don't make it anymore? If anything I haven't seen it for a while either.

 

[SLAYIN'SWEDE]

Try jumping them more, shoot 3 each @ .030, .040, .050, .060 and see if it likes it.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Ok, so just got back from the range with another seating depth test. Did 3 shot groups at 5 to 40 off in 5 increments. Hoping 25 off is repeatable as it's 1/4 MOA with an ES of 7.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Looks like .25 is good

 

[Rocketvapor]

Oh NO
I see a candidate for PRIMER SORTING
ES for all shots is 92fps.
Water line for 40 off looks good. ES and SD of ZERO.
I find the 80 and 88ELDs like 35 to 40 off.
(22 Nosler)

The 85.5s do pretty good in the wife's 22N Savage at 3000fps.
Here's a one shot group @ 100yds.
3016fps, ES = 0, SD = 0.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I'm not sorting primers lol. Never even heard of such a thing...

You don't think the seating depths have anything to do with the ES? Some of them were good, to decent, to crap, just kinda depended on the length really looks like. That one shot at 35 off at 2911 is what screwed it all up.

I'm gonna load 10 each up at 24.5 and 24.7 at .025" off and shoot a 10 shot group at 100 and see what they do. Will probably just go with whichever one shoots the best and call it a day. Getting tired of this load development already and want to start the real fun which is 300-1K dope confirmstion every 100 yards. And then it'll just be time to play and shoot.

Got a 900 yard PRS style match in 2 weeks and would like to take it and see how we do! But need to get a load dialed in and a good dope chart first...

 

[jsthntn247]

Ok, so just got back from the range with another seating depth test. Did 3 shot groups at 5 to 40 off in 5 increments. Hoping 25 off is repeatable as it's 1/4 MOA with an ES of 7.
View attachment 8402551

It won’t repeat. Take it from somebody that has burned out 4 223 barrels specifically designed for 90 grain Bergers. Heavy 223’s are hard to get consistent. Seating force within several lbs of each other and charge weight to a kernel is a must. If done right you can set a new national record.

 

[kyotekiller25]

It won’t repeat. Take it from somebody that has burned out 4 223 barrels specifically designed for 90 grain Bergers. Heavy 223’s are hard to get consistent. Seating force within several lbs of each other and charge weight to a kernel is a must. If done right you can set a new national record.

Well thanks for the reassurance haha. Even if it won't do 1/4 MOA, I'll be happy with a nice circular/triangular group at 1/2 MOA. The 2 and 1 out thing is what drives me absolutely insane.

 

[JR1200W3]

I have a 26" Krieger 1:7.5" Wylde and have the same experience with the 75gr ELDMs as you. And they're currently acting the same way in my 1:7" 22 ARC. And I'm at 7000ft ASL. It's just the bullet, it's not the barrel.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Damn it. Well they're either just super picky where they like to be seated, have a short seating depth window, or just not a super consistent bullet then. I mean it is a Hornady, not exactly match grade compared to a Sierra or Berger at the end of the day. And I'm only at 500ft where I do my load developmemt. My other range that I shoot out to 1400 is 1000ft.

 

[Changed]

I've run the 80ELDM in my 1:7 Krieger @ 28". The results were awful. I ran the 80.5's, and they were money. I've never really looked back. I am considering a test with the 80SMK mainly due to the availability and the fact that they are pointed in the factory. I have run my .223 impact with 4166, Varget, and N140. In all cases, the Berger bullets performed. Berger produces one of the best-performing bullets available. However, I have always called Sierra's bullets "Chocolate Ice Cream." I've never seen a Sierra bullet that would not shoot well off the rip. They may not be fancy or the highest BC, but they never disappoint. And they are generally one of the more affordable bullets available. On the other hand, Hornady has disappointed me on far more than one occasion.

 

[JR1200W3]

Damn it. Well they're either just super picky where they like to be seated, have a short seating depth window, or just not a super consistent bullet then. I mean it is a Hornady, not exactly match grade compared to a Sierra or Berger at the end of the day. And I'm only at 500ft where I do my load developmemt. My other range that I shoot out to 1400 is 1000ft.

I bought a bulk pack of ELDMs in 2018 and was immediately disappointed. I developed a load for them, or so I thought, with good accuracy and every other outing it would look like poo. I'd read where people got great accuracy out of them and just started to think my barrel didn't like them. But I had the same experience in a 22 Grendel barrel; chalked that up to a lower quality barrel. And now the same in a 22 ARC barrel. Yesterday I went to the range twice. First outing I got good accuracy. Second outing I zeroed in on the best groups and shot them again to ensure they would repeat. And they sort of did but mostly didn't. I started to think they are just .002 seating depth picky. Like ice cold vs on fire. I was switching my seating die micrometer as I loaded different ladders and maybe didn't get the second run to 2.238 and was more around 2.241 oal instead and that's why I didn't get the same results. But JFC that's a picky bitch. 6 years of on again off again trying this bullet in multiple barrels and loads. Same results.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I think I'm gonna pick up a box of 80.5s on the way home. Haven't heard a single case of them not shooting or being picky. Only problem is I have 15 boxes of 75g ELDMs sitting on my shelf haha.

 

[Changed]

Here's one of my LD targets. It's not my best shooting, but it gives you an idea of where I ended up. In this example, six out of the eight groups shot with the 80.5s were half an inch or less. None of the four groups shot with the 80 ELDs were less than half MOA. Note the groups with the 80ELDM were shot first and the bottom group was five shots of the 80.5s with a random charge weight. Hopefully, this will give you an idea of possible velocities.

 

[Xcount]

I think I'm gonna pick up a box of 80.5s on the way home. Haven't heard a single case of them not shooting or being picky. Only problem is I have 15 boxes of 75g ELDMs sitting on my shelf haha.

Just curious because you didn't mention it, but what size mandrel do you use on the neck?

 

[JR1200W3]

Here's one of my LD targets. It's not my best shooting, but it gives you an idea of where I ended up. In this example, six out of the eight groups shot with the 80.5s were half an inch or less. None of the four groups shot with the 80 ELDs were less than half MOA. Note the groups with the 80ELDM were shot first and the bottom group was five shots of the 80.5s with a random charge weight. Hopefully, this will give you an idea of possible velocities.

View attachment 8403798

So now you have to ask yourself if paying $0.40 a bullet is worth the .1 of elevation and .1 of wind @ 600yds over the 75gr BTHP which can be bought for $0.20 a bullet and is very accurate and easy to tune. I run those at 2930.

 

[kyotekiller25]

That may be true out to 600, but the differnece of the 75g ELDM, 80g SMK, 80.5 Berger is significant at 1K versus the 75g BTHP. It's not even close. The other 3 give you 150-200 yards more range before going trans sonic. The 75g BTHP is about an 800 yard bullet, the 80s are 950 yards, and the 75 eldm is at 1K

Differnece at 1K between 75 Eldm and 75 bthp is 8 MOA elevation and 4 MOA wind. The 75 eldm still beats both 80s by about 2-3 MOA elevation and 1 MOA in wind. While the 80s beat the 75g bthp by about 5 MOA elevation and 3 MOA of wind.

 

[kyotekiller25]

Just curious because you didn't mention it, but what size mandrel do you use on the neck?

I don't use mandrels

 

[kyotekiller25]

Here's one of my LD targets. It's not my best shooting, but it gives you an idea of where I ended up. In this example, six out of the eight groups shot with the 80.5s were half an inch or less. None of the four groups shot with the 80 ELDs were less than half MOA. Note the groups with the 80ELDM were shot first and the bottom group was five shots of the 80.5s with a random charge weight. Hopefully, this will give you an idea of possible velocities.

View attachment 8403798

Your ELDM groups look like mine with the 2 and 1 out bullshit all the time. I just think they're super picky with seating depth and have a short window to shoot. Plus they're fucking cheap ass hornadys, they're not a true match grade bullet like a sierra or berger.

Those 80.5s just shoot so much better consistently without even trying.

What powder were you using? Speeds look good, but it seemed to shoot a lot better down around the 2800fps mark. Which is ok, but not great if you're wanting to get out to 1K really either. Need to be around the 2900+ range.

 

[JR1200W3]

That may be true out to 600, but the differnece of the 75g ELDM, 80g SMK, 80.5 Berger is significant at 1K versus the 75g BTHP. It's not even close. The other 3 give you 150-200 yards more range before going trans sonic. The 75g BTHP is about an 800 yard bullet, the 80s are 950 yards, and the 75 eldm is at 1K

Differnece at 1K between 75 Eldm and 75 bthp is 8 MOA elevation and 4 MOA wind. The 75 eldm still beats both 80s by about 2-3 MOA elevation and 1 MOA in wind. While the 80s beat the 75g bthp by about 5 MOA elevation and 3 MOA of wind.

Maybe at your elevation you're seeing a more pronounced difference. I'm at 7000ft. Here's my Kestrel at 1000yds, 10mph wind, same bore height, zero range, etc. Ignore the 75 ELDM nomenclature on the screen, I changed it to a .226G7 at 2842fps to match above dudes 5rd group using 80.5's.

You're gaining .2 of wind drift at a range that you shoot 5% of your targets in a match. You get most of your work done 600yds and under in a PRS or field match. I've seen people win matches with factory Hornady 75gr Steel Match ammo against a field of 6mms and 6.5's just because they're better shooters. You can lay out the numbers on paper and easily perceive them as more impactful in practical application than they really are. A 223 isn't a real 1000yd gun. I'm sure you own more capable cartridge/ barrels for serious competition.

To me, the true .224 heavies are only worth it if you're pushing at the same speed or close to the same speed as a conventional 75gr. If you lose 100fps or compromise with a "lighter" heavy like the 80.5 whose BC strikes a middle ground but loses as much speed as an 85 or 88 then you end up with marginal gains at the last 20% of your range for double the price. But that's just me. I might try the 85's but they have to break 2850, still be accurate, and not need a temp sensitive ball powder to do it.

 

[Changed]

Your ELDM groups look like mine with the 2 and 1 out bullshit all the time. I just think they're super picky with seating depth and have a short window to shoot. Plus they're fucking cheap ass hornadys, they're not a true match grade bullet like a sierra or berger.

Those 80.5s just shoot so much better consistently without even trying.

What powder were you using? Speeds look good, but it seemed to shoot a lot better down around the 2800fps mark. Which is ok, but not great if you're wanting to get out to 1K really either. Need to be around the 2900+ range.

I was running Varget in that test. I think the better groups at the beginning are a factor of inconsistent inputs. Meaning that it is very difficult to shoot small groups, and losing concentration shows towards the end of a session. In my opinion, the issue with some of Hornday's bullets has to do with the weight differences. I was shocked at how far out the ELD's were. I have to see if I can dig up those pictures.

 

[misser]

Oh NO
I see a candidate for PRIMER SORTING
ES for all shots is 92fps.
Water line for 40 off looks good. ES and SD of ZERO.
I find the 80 and 88ELDs like 35 to 40 off.
(22 Nosler)

The 85.5s do pretty good in the wife's 22N Savage at 3000fps.
Here's a one shot group @ 100yds.
3016fps, ES = 0, SD = 0.

View attachment 8402739

i have learned not to do that . running out of tacks

 

[kyotekiller25]

Maybe at your elevation you're seeing a more pronounced difference. I'm at 7000ft. Here's my Kestrel at 1000yds, 10mph wind, same bore height, zero range, etc. Ignore the 75 ELDM nomenclature on the screen, I changed it to a .226G7 at 2842fps to match above dudes 5rd group using 80.5's.

View attachment 8403856View attachment 8403857

You're gaining .2 of wind drift at a range that you shoot 5% of your targets in a match. You get most of your work done 600yds and under in a PRS or field match. I've seen people win matches with factory Hornady 75gr Steel Match ammo against a field of 6mms and 6.5's just because they're better shooters. You can lay out the numbers on paper and easily perceive them as more impactful in practical application than they really are. A 223 isn't a real 1000yd gun. I'm sure you own more capable cartridge/ barrels for serious competition.

To me, the true .224 heavies are only worth it if you're pushing at the same speed or close to the same speed as a conventional 75gr. If you lose 100fps or compromise with a "lighter" heavy like the 80.5 whose BC strikes a middle ground but loses as much speed as an 85 or 88 then you end up with marginal gains at the last 20% of your range for double the price. But that's just me. I might try the 85's but they have to break 2850, still be accurate, and not need a temp sensitive ball powder to do it.

Ya, the numbers I gave for 1K are for my 500 ft ASL. 75s at 2975, and 80s at 2900 from a 28" tube. 10 mph wind.

223 isn't the greatest 1K round, but it still gets there with the right bullet/speed combo.

I have a 6 Creed shooting 108 ELDMs and 7-300 Win Mag shooting 180 ELDMs, but I don't shoot them a whole lot these days with having the 223. Just no need to. The 6 Creed is my coyote rifle and the 7-300 is my big game rifle. Both are obviously the better 1K rounds, but for steel I can get by 90% of the time with a 223 and save a ton on barrel life and components versus the other 2. I'll bring the other 2 out to play a couple few times a year just to make sure they're still on and doing what they should, but that's about it anymore.

 

[JR1200W3]

Ya, the numbers I gave for 1K are for my 500 ft ASL. 75s at 2975, and 80s at 2900 from a 28" tube. 10 mph wind.

The problem with thise numbers is the ELDMs aren't really that viable are they? The numbers don't matter if the accuracy isn't there. So then what are you looking at? 77TMKs or 75gr BTHPs versus 80.5's and 85's? The 90gr SMKs?

I would give each of those 5 bullets an honest shot by doing load development for each of them and then seeing what the practical and realistic accuracy/ speed combo is. Then I would run the numbers , at 1K if you wish, and figure out if you want to pay the premium for the gains that you're getting.

You are kind of doing the opposite. You are picking a speed that you'd like to get and then trying to get accuracy at that muzzle velocity.

 

[HMRamateur]

I'm using up 1000 of the old 75gr Amax as I got them pretty cheap. As far as I know they are the same bullet as the ELDM just different tips. Super inconsistent base to ogive measurements lot to lot, and even measurements out as much as 0.005 plus/minus from the average in the same box. The only way I could get them to shoot was to jam them 0.010 and that was with only 1 powder/primer combo tested out of many. I'd try some bullets more consistent than hornady.

 

[kyotekiller25]

I get what you're saying. I just had zero intent on shooting anything but the 75 eldm, so I kinda fucked up and put all my eggs in 1 basket. They just give you the best ballistics from an 8 twist with the BC/speed combo over anything else. Plus they're cheap, so not paying a premium, to get the best ballistics over the more expensive sierra/bergers 80s, with a lower BC and less speed at that.

I haven't tried any other bullets yet. Pretty determined to make the 75 ELDMs work. I've ran them up to 3050fps with N540, but they shoot better at 2975, which is why I'm basing the numbers at 2975 for the 75s. Don't really know where the 80s would shoot, but just hoping it'd be around 2900 with good accuracy with N540.

I can't shoot anything over 80s because I only have an 8 twist. Kinda wishing I got a 7 or 7.5 now to shoot the 85-90s. But oh well. Just have to make them work and shoot the barrel out, and get a 7 twist after that. Lesson learned.

 

[JR1200W3]

They just give you the best ballistics from an 8 twist with the BC/speed combo over anything else.

In theory at least.