.223 Hand vs Metered Charge

[ESSAYONS]

Just need a general consensus-went to the range yesterday and was hitting 6'' steel plates at 400-500m with 69 mhbt Sierras over 25 gr. of varget. I thought I would break from my usual step of hand measuring each charge and just direct fill from the powder measurer. There really was NO difference in the number of hits for manual vs. metered charges! As you all know hand measuring each charge takes lots of time-does this mean just skip the hand measure step for my application?. I am using a Redding match powder dispensor. Just wondering if I am the only nut using straight metered charges in this world of accuracy.

"The Rookie"

 

[300ATT]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Using a ladder test I found a sweet spot using VV540 and 69gr SMK's for my .223's. I tried this combination out in a Dillon 650 and loaded about 100 rounds. They shot so well that I loaded another 1,000. This second batch shoots or hits just as well as the first batch. In terms of accuracy you can't tell the difference between the Dillon or hand weighed rounds.

I have a shooting buddy that says: "pretty is as pretty does ... "

So, if it works for you, don't sweat it ... go out an shoot!

 

[300ATT]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Using a ladder test I found a sweet spot using VV540 and 69gr SMK's for my .223's. I tried this combination out in a Dillon 650 and loaded about 100 rounds. They shot so well that I loaded another 1,000. This second batch shoots or hits just as well as the first batch. In terms of accuracy you can't tell the difference between the Dillon or hand weighed rounds.

I have a shooting buddy that says: "pretty is as pretty does ... "

So, if it works for you, don't sweat it ... go out and shoot!

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

"There really was NO difference in the number of hits for manual vs. metered charges!"

You're learning!

As mentioned about the 'sweet spot', loading in the middle of an honest accuracy node, as opposed to being on the ragged edge of it, allows much more powder charge - and OAL - latitude than some belive. But, part of it depends on the actual powder used and the operator's skill with his measure.

 

[John L]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just need a general consensus-went to the range yesterday and was hitting 6'' steel plates at 400-500m with 69 mhbt Sierras over 25 gr. of varget. I thought I would break from my usual step of hand measuring each charge and just direct fill from the powder measurer. There really was NO difference in the number of hits for manual vs. metered charges! As you all know hand measuring each charge takes lots of time-does this mean just skip the hand measure step for my application?. I am using a Redding match powder dispensor. Just wondering if I am the only nut using straight metered charges in this world of accuracy.

"The Rookie" </div></div>

Ahh Grashopper you learn quickly. Time on the gun will make a more positive impact on your accuracy than worring about your loads varying a couple of tenths in charge weight. It took a while for me to get this through my thick skull. One of the very best Highpower shooters in the country happens to be a good friend. His reloading skills would scare most, but holy crap can he read the wind and hit the center of the target.

 

[mheckman]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

All of my .223 ammo used in Highpower (77's and 80's) are thrown with a uniflow mounted on a Dillon 550 via a Hornady case activated powder drop. It's a rube goldberg contraption but with it I've earned a lot (HM, P100, Distinguished). My RE15 charges vary +or- .10 but it doesn't seem to matter that much.

 

[ESSAYONS]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Thanks! This is music to my ears. I started reloading about a year ago and I think I just focused on so many little details that I kind of missed the big picture or the obvious...maybe this is just the normal learning curve as I progress my reloading and shooting skills. It sure felt good to hear the hit and see those plates fall!!

I love the idea of not having to measure every charge- powder measuring I think was only second worse to trimming. Bought a Giraud a couple weeks back and it was one of the best investments I have made. I think that the Giraud being off .01'' is kind of like metered vs. hand charges- does it really make that big of a difference!

Thanks again.

 

[mheckman]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

I hope your Giraud isn't off by .010, it should be more like .001, right?

 

[ESSAYONS]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Good catch-typo. Thats correct thousands- not hundreds. It is running at about .001-.002 tolerance.

Thanks!

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

For what it's worth, I've been loading 77gr SMKs for my AR for a little while now. I started throwing low and trickling up. Then I bought a Hornady Auto Charge, which really sped things up. Then I ran across the info on the ladder test stuff. My usual charge is 24.1gr of RL15. I found that as long as my charge doesn't vary by more than .2gr up or down, it doesn't matter to my rifle. I doctored my Dillon measure up a bit and it consistently throws within .2gr up or down now, so I'm just using the Auto Charge for my .308 and I don't know how long that's going to last.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Does anybody really believe FGMM is hand measured?

 

[ESSAYONS]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Great point!

 

[TheStewUSMC03]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

I use metered charges in my 223 69 SMK over 24.2 grains if TAC. I tested my powder measure and get constant 24.1 or 24.2. Can't tell a diffrence while shooting them.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

TAC is good, but I think it is better suited for the lighter weight projectiles.

For 75gr HDY FMJBT (moly), 26.5gr(C*) Ramshot Big Game, 2.400"OAL, mil brass, Small Match Primer. Shoots lights out in Sav 10FP.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Shooting over MOA targets? Why bother trying to load for accuracy if your target can't tell you how you are shooting?
close ranges like 600 you can get away with a lot unless you are really looking at small group sizes.

You will not get away with it at longer ranges.

Load windows are great up to a certain range. After that you need to be as close to your accuracy load as possible.
It goes back to "accuracy". If you are happy with large targets and not pushing your limits (Plinking) then I am sure you can forget about taking a great deal of care with loads.

80g Amax 2775 (Source JBM)
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2781.8 2.492 1374.4 0.000 0.0 ***

500 -55.9 -10.7 21.1 4.0 1865.3 1.671 617.9 0.659 116.0 22.2
600 -91.4 -14.5 31.7 5.0 1705.0 1.527 516.3 0.827 145.6 23.2
700 -138.8 -18.9 45.2 6.2 1550.9 1.389 427.2 1.012 178.1 24.3
800 -200.7 -24.0 62.0 7.4 1403.1 1.257 349.7 1.215 213.9 25.5
900 -280.4 -29.8 82.7 8.8 1262.9 1.131 283.3 1.441 253.6 26.9
1000-382.0 -36.5 107.9 10.3 1132.9 1.015 227.9 1.692 297.7 28.4

80g Amax 2750
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2756.8 2.469 1349.7 0.000 0.0 ***

500 -57.2 -10.9 21.4 4.1 1845.2 1.653 604.7 0.666 117.2 22.4
600 -93.3 -14.9 32.2 5.1 1685.6 1.510 504.7 0.836 147.1 23.4
700 -141.8 -19.3 45.9 6.3 1532.3 1.372 417.0 1.022 179.9 24.5
800 -205.1 -24.5 63.0 7.5 1385.4 1.241 340.9 1.228 216.2 25.8
900 -286.7 -30.4 84.0 8.9 1246.2 1.116 275.8 1.457 256.4 27.2
1000 -390.7 -37.3 109.6 10.5 1118.4 1.002 222.1 1.711 301.2 28.8

80g Amax 2725
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yd) (in) (MOA) (in) (MOA) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (MOA)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 2731.7 2.447 1325.3 0.000 0.0 ***

500 -58.4 -11.2 21.7 4.1 1825.1 1.635 591.6 0.672 118.3 22.6
600 -95.4 -15.2 32.6 5.2 1666.3 1.493 493.1 0.844 148.6 23.7
700 -144.9 -19.8 46.6 6.4 1513.7 1.356 407.0 1.033 181.9 24.8
800 -209.7 -25.0 63.9 7.6 1367.7 1.225 332.2 1.242 218.6 26.1
900 -293.1 -31.1 85.3 9.1 1229.6 1.101 268.5 1.473 259.3 27.5
1000-399.7 -38.2 111.4 10.6 1104.8 0.990 216.8 1.731 304.7 29.1

In small cases like the .223 you WILL get large variations with sloppy loading. Large cartridges tend to be more forgiving.
You cannot get better, you cannot learn without accuracy. Your equipment must be more accurate than you.

Anyone take down a box of FGM and weigh the charges? Anyone have access to the bulk powders they use?

 

[BCP]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just need a general consensus-went to the range yesterday and was hitting 6'' steel plates at 400-500m with 69 mhbt Sierras over 25 gr. of varget. I thought I would break from my usual step of hand measuring each charge and just direct fill from the powder measurer. There really was NO difference in the number of hits for manual vs. metered charges! As you all know hand measuring each charge takes lots of time-does this mean just skip the hand measure step for my application?. I am using a Redding match powder dispensor. Just wondering if I am the only nut using straight metered charges in this world of accuracy.

"The Rookie" </div></div>

I only trickle when I'm doing load development, but then I rarely shoot past 600. If I did I would trickle everything just to eliminate the chance that a flyer was due to me putting .3 grains too much powder in one or something.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Thestew03</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use metered charges in my 223 69 SMK over 24.2 grains if TAC. I tested my powder measure and get constant 24.1 or 24.2. Can't tell a diffrence while shooting them. </div></div>

What are you using to meter your loads of TAC? The auto chargers that I've used won't meter any sort of ball powder worth a crap. If you have one that will, I want one.

BTW, reference was made to TAC being more suited to lighter bullets. I don't know about larger case rounds because I've never tried it, but with .223 and such, TAC is definitely better suited to heavier bullets. I use Xterminator for the lighter stuff.

 

[dvdt]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TonyAngel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
BTW, reference was made to TAC being more suited to lighter bullets. I don't know about larger case rounds because I've never tried it, but with .223 and such, TAC is definitely better suited to heavier bullets. I use Xterminator for the lighter stuff. </div></div>

Not to thread jack here, but I think this is one of the most misleading discussions around. Absolutely no disrespect to you or anyone else.

I see a lot of guys mentioning TAC as an end all be all for 55gr FMJ "blasting" ammo or reasonably precise ammo. Then I scroll down half a page and read a thread about how it doesn't work well at all with the lighter pills.

I'm going to start loading .223 soon, but man, it's so hard to find good info on this stuff.

 

[ESSAYONS]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Not to sound disrespectful- but does it not depend on your application? Whether its hand or metered?

Rookie question- what does "TAC" stand for?

 

[mscott]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Eng07</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to sound disrespectful- but does it not depend on your application? Whether its hand or metered?

Rookie question- what does "TAC" stand for?

</div></div>
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/tac.php

 

[ESSAYONS]

Re: .223 Hand vs Metered Charge

Thanks mscott...did not even know this powder existed!!