.223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

[GRIM]

Ok - a buddy of mine is helping a friend set up his Dillon 650 and was loading .223 Winchester brass on it with Hornady 55gr AMAX bullet (flat base bullet). When he seats the bullet it is more often than not crushing the shoulder downwards. It's not happening on each one but on most of them. I said that either he's got the neck tension too high (greater than 3 thou or it's the flat base bullet causing this problem). I bet a tapered base bullet like the 55 grain Nosler BT would fix the problem.

Anyone run into this and what causes it??

 

[Handloader]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Remove the die, pull your depriming pin out of the top, spray in carb cleaner, clean with q-tips. Then back off the die a little, I had the same problem on Sunday (with a Dillon 650). Watch the amount of lube your using.</span>
Woops, sorry. Wrong info.

 

[Handloader]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

Are you using Dillon dies, with a seperate crimp station, or a die that seats and crimps at the same time? If so, crimp may be set too low on the case, and starts to crimp before the bullet is seated. This will crush the neck down (found that out trying to load sub-sonic 30-30 a few years ago).

 

[bohem]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

The crimp problem mentioned could be doing it if there's a heavy crimp being put on it, but I doubt it because it's not crushing each case.

You need to put a tiny flare on the case or put a decent chamber into the mouth if you're planning to load a lot of flat based bullets. I ran into this as well with FB bullets in several calibers, I try avoiding them if at all possible.

If he's not too heavily invested in the 50 Vmax at this point he can try the 52 Amax, it has a small boat tail on there and will really help the problem.

 

[sawgunner2001]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The crimp problem mentioned could be doing it if there's a heavy crimp being put on it, but I doubt it because it's not crushing each case.</div></div>

I'm guessing that it is a crimp related issue. Also guessing the reason that some make it through without crushing is because the case length is shorter on them. With a taper crimp, a shorter piece of brass will be crimped less than a longer one. If all cases have been trimmed to identical length, my theory goes out the window.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

I had a batch of 800 Winchester 308 cases that were doing the same thing. It turns out that it wasn't neck tension, it wasn't crimping and it wasn't hydraulic denting that was causing the problem.

On about 20 out of 600 that I actually loaded, the necks were manufactured way too long, to the tune of cases being 2.045", all of that extra .035" being in necks.

Check the ones that are crushing the shoulders and see how long the neck portion is. Unless you have your seating die set way high, it's going to bottom out on the case mouth, upon seating, and crush the shoulders.

Chris

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

I would check to see if the Bullet seat in the die is set out to far. This was happening to to an old set of dies I had for my 308. I was having to screw the die in to far to try and get the proper COAL it was crushing the shoulder.

 

[john_1182]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

every time i've had this happen to me its because i've had the seating die screwd too far in, unscrew it half a turn and see what happens, as for having a good flare in the couse mouth (with the de buring tool) if found this helps with seating, but only stops the case from shaving small pieces of copper off of the projectile. all this is just my own personal experiance. so please take the usual dosage of salt with this too...

 

[bohem]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

Saw/Chris - you guys are right, I wasn't thinking about large variances in trim length and having the die screwed far into the press. Under those conditions you guys are probably dead on the mark.

 

[samnev]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

Anytime I have seen crushed cases it's was because the cases were to long and when the crimp was attempted the case was crushed. I am assuming the seating die is set up correctly.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Saw/Chris - you guys are right, I wasn't thinking about large variances in trim length and having the die screwed far into the press. Under those conditions you guys are probably dead on the mark. </div></div>

Remove seating stem from seating die.

Take the longest of your trimmed brass and put it in the seating station.

Screw in the seating die body until the crimping step hits the case mouth.

Back the seating die body off about 1/2 turn, or thereabouts.

Lock the seating die body down to your press/toolhead.

Reinsert the seating stem and adjust for proper COAL.

If crimping, make sure your brass is trimmed to an equal length and then adjust the seating die body so that it applies the desired amount of crimp.

CAVEAT: It's always best, if one has to crimp, to do it in a separtate step, or station, apart from bullet seating. Crimping dies are best for this, but if you have a second seating die, with a crimping step built in, you can remove that stem and use that in a different station, if you have a progressive, or turret press.

Profit!

Chris

 

[GRIM]

Re: .223 shoulder getting crushed when seating bullet

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anytime I have seen crushed cases it's was because the cases were to long and when the crimp was attempted the case was crushed. I am assuming the seating die is set up correctly. </div></div>

I wasn't there so I have no idea if they had the seating die set correctly but the fellow showing the other guy is pretty experienced so I would 'assume' so but you know how that goes.

No crimping was being done. I have felt that the die was screwed in too far to get that kind of reaction. Or try a tapered base bullet to see if it was the flat base bullet getting hung up on the edge of the case mouth.