.223 trainer vs Spare Barrel & reloading components for my x47

[siscoe308]

I was just shaken to my core.

I'm a gun hoarder, and called my brother all lathered up about the 223 trainer rifle I was going to start. Surgeon Action, KMW stock, Huber...My brother stopped me and asked "why not just buy a ton of bullets & powder and TRAIN with your 6.5?"

What am I missing? Is it just the novelty of another rifle (which I understand) or is there a true benefit to these 'trainers'?

 

[Whiskey 2-1]

If you don't mind spinning up barrels for your 6.5, it's an option. There is some difference in overall Ammo costs, and you will get more life out of a 223 barrel, so for most people that barrel is likely a 1-2 time purchase, vs many more with a 6.5 if you are training often.

If you already run a surgeon or similar 6.5, have any number of good smiths fit a 223 bolt and barrel to it. Saves on stock and optic costs. Moon at Crescent Customs built me a 223/6.5CM surgeon switched barrel and bolt setup for my wife. 223 to train and plink, 6.5 for matches. Love that gun. Easy swaps with barrel vise and action wrench.

Of course, more rifles are always better......

Doc

 

[mcfred]

"Beware the man with one gun..."

It's one thing to cobble some Savage short-range plinker together for a 'trainer' but if you're going to throw money at a whole 'nother custom rifle then it might be better spent on more components/barrels for what you have today.

I've got the tools to switch barrels on my comp gun for 3 different cartridges. It's inconvenient enough to just buy another rifle IMO. I have a .223 trainer too which after a couple thou in setup/components/optics I've realized I could have shot out and rebarreled my comp gun two times over...

If money's tight, don't bother with the .223. If you have money to burn and you want it "just cause" then get the trainer.

 

[Sheldon N]

I was just shaken to my core.

I'm a gun hoarder, and called my brother all lathered up about the 223 trainer rifle I was going to start. Surgeon Action, KMW stock, Huber...My brother stopped me and asked "why not just buy a ton of bullets & powder and TRAIN with your 6.5?"

What am I missing? Is it just the novelty of another rifle (which I understand) or is there a true benefit to these 'trainers'?

If you're after the economics of it, the incremental cost per shot difference between 6.5x47 and a 223 trainer is roughly $0.30. If you're getting ready to build a $6500 gun (including optic) then you need to shoot 21,000 rounds to break even on the cost of the 223 trainer. If you're talking about just a 223 barrel and bolt for your existing gun, that's more like a $1k cost so your breakeven is in 3,300 rounds.

If you're not shooting this much then I'd say just shoot the crap out of your 6.5x47 to train with, and order up another barrel so you've got a good one for matches.

 

[steve123]

I'm still happy I never built a 223 trainer. That's always been my question - why have a 223 trainer when a guy can buy "how many barrels" instead for their go-to rifle??? When I'm out shooting "long range" I'm fairly serious about doing the best I can with the rifle and cartridge I'll be using on match day. That means getting the 105er in the middle of the steel on the first shot regardless of wind conditions or that's the goal anyway. I don't want to get in my head what a 223 load is doing in the wind, I want to learn where that 105er lands in the wind.

Then what is rarely mentioned is if a guy wants longer barrel life why not shoot reduced loads with less expensive bullets for positional practice at medium distances. Could it double the barrel life slowing to a 45,000 psi load with short bearing surface bullets??? Then transitioning back to match loads for long range to tune one's wind hold.

Anyway, I like using 22's but mostly PCP air rifles for trigger time. "Trigger time" is huge and majorly overlooked - the act of doing. Which do you think is a more effective shooting aide for self teaching, a 223, 6x47, whatever, sitting in the safe most of the time, or an air rifle you shoot all week.

Example; related to trigger time. In my yard I used to shoot my PCP Olympic match air pistol for practice quite a bit. Off a rest It puts pellets through the same hole at 10y and touches them at 20Y. I got to the point where I could hit a 1.25" round steel at 20Y offhand most of the time. So heads shots at 20Y with a combat pistol were cake. The same time frame as this I shot a IDPA match with my wife's new compact G42/380 for the heck of it, the cool thing was never hitting out of the -0, missing a steel and a third the time taking head shots. Of course I had to shoot slower because of the short sight radius and heavy trigger but still secured a 4th place. I'm just making a point.

 

[Sheldon N]

Then what is rarely mentioned is if a guy wants longer barrel life why not shoot reduced loads with less expensive bullets for positional practice at medium distances. Could it double the barrel life slowing to a 45,000 psi load with short bearing surface bullets??? Then transitioning back to match loads for long range to tune one's wind hold.

I did that with my last Dasher barrel. Less powder, cheaper bullets, 200 fps slower than match load. Put 1900 rounds on it in 3-4 months. Don't think I'll see double the barrel life, it slowed a bit around the 1800 round mark, but still shoots good. We'll see how long it lasts until it's dead.

I'm still going to shoot my match caliber for practice, but with older barrels. I've also got a 223 barrel spun up and will shoot that as a trainer too. Like you said, no substitute for trigger time.

 

[hollowoutadime]

"Beware the man with one gun..."

This.
I think you're better off shouldering, ranging, looking through the same S&B scope, handling recoil, same can - using the same gun as if your life depended on it.

40 years of shooting, I should probably sell everything and keep my .17 for yard pests, my .260 for longer range pests, my .338 for pests that like to hide behind things.
I'm pretty sure I'd be a better shooter.

... and keep my 45/70 lever action for fun.

 

[spife7980]

I will echo the opinions that using it for a trainer is not the economically minded decision. Especially not at the price of the components you listed.

However I still shoot my 223 way more than all others combined. I just love it.

 

[steve123]

I did that with my last Dasher barrel. Less powder, cheaper bullets, 200 fps slower than match load. Put 1900 rounds on it in 3-4 months. Don't think I'll see double the barrel life, it slowed a bit around the 1800 round mark, but still shoots good. We'll see how long it lasts until it's dead.

I'm still going to shoot my match caliber for practice, but with older barrels. I've also got a 223 barrel spun up and will shoot that as a trainer too. Like you said, no substitute for trigger time.

Sheldon, were you naughty by shooting 10 shot strings one after the other, JK. I could see myself doing it, lol.

I forgot to mention meloniting the barrel as a way to extend barrel life. I got just shy of 3000 rounds of warm loads through a 6x47l melonited barrel. There is a lot of controversy concerning meloniting but in my case it was worth the extra $75.


I know what you other guys mean, having fun with 223, love mine too, I like shooting my AR a lot.

There's no wrong answer here, just differing reasons and opinions.

 

[Sheldon N]

Sheldon, were you naughty by shooting 10 shot strings one after the other, JK. I could see myself doing it, lol.

LOL, you caught me.

Actually, I tried to not run it too hard. Only would usually load 5 rounds in a mag at a time. Typical range trip was 50 rounds in an hour or so. Also shot several matches with it. Unlimited round count stages don't help out the barrel much.

 

[steve123]

What was this thread about again, lol. Sorry OP for the highjack but it's a good one.

Discussions like this always bring me back to wanting to try out a 6.5 Dasher. It would have to get very good barrel life like 4000 ~ 4500???, be super accurate, and not be much slower than 6.5x47L. Shoot 107's at that same velocity for barricade or positional practice. Melonite the barrel and get 7000-8000 rounds barrel life. Match load something like 130's at 2750-2800 fps out of longer barrel which isn't far off a 6 Dasher in the wind.

 

[Marksman10x]

I would definitely listen to your brother. If you look at the long-term costs of everything involved, you will probably never break even. That .223 barrel will likely need to be replaced before you can recoup your money, which puts you even further in the hole.

A .22 LR makes a lot more sense. I have a $1000 Anschutz from Cabelas, it's incredibly accurate and ammo is much cheaper than .223. Also, the barrel never heats up so you can just keep shooting. A sako quad in a Manners stock would also be pretty cool.

Nothing wrong with building a .223, just don't think it will somehow save you money.