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.223

223ai

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 28, 2006
1,091
15
Texas
The ".223 Long Range" thread prompted me to post this, as I am a big fan of the .223 for long range match shooting. In an effort to prove just how effective a properly set up .223 bolt gun can be, I decided to go ahead and post this. I've been an active "tactical" competitor for a couple of years, and it took that long for me to realize that there is no magic caliber/bullet/speed combo for accomplishing top results. The only answer is practice. Pretty simple concept...practice. Terry Cross says (approximately) that "shooting is a perishable skill", and with that in mind I built my 223 as a way to practice without burning up my .260....so here we go:

I first contacted Aaron Roberts (www.rprifles.com) mainly because he was local to me, and I am just around the corner from his shop on a weekly basis. I was surprised that he actually picked up the phone, spent 30 minutes talking to me about the rifle, and generally made me feel comfortable with handing all of my parts over to him. He most definitely exceeded my expectations. I had the rifle together and in my hands in less than 5 days. On the 5th day, I did load development, on the 6th day, I doped it out to 1000 yards. On the seventh day, I rested
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Here is the rifle:
IMG_0481.jpg

Here is the crown:
IMG_0482.jpg

Here is a picture of the loaded round, next to a .260 loaded round. It's an 82gr Berger BTHP in Lake City 2011 brass.
IMG_0484.jpg


Aaron put together the following components:

1) Stiller Tac 30
2) A5
3) PTG Stealth DBM system
4) Timney 510
5) Brux 6.5 twist, finished at 26" - I specifically asked him not to cerakote it.
6) HDMR w/G2 (love this scope, it's very well built, and the reticle is a great match reticle)

The listed G1, according to the box of bullets (82gr Berger bthp) is .450, while the Berger website lists it as .444. The bullets are of a very old lot that I bought from a very good friend and well respected shooter, so I cannot speak to whether Berger has changed any of the bullet design. I use "Shooter" as my ballistic app in the field, and there is an option to input Litz tested bullets in the ammo selection. I loaded two bullet profiles, the Litz tested 82gr BT, and the 82gr BT in which I can manipulate variables...most notably BC.

I pointed the bullets right away, and did not do any testing/load development on an unpointed 82gr bthp. I developed my load at 100, looking for the magic pressure/speed/accuracy combo. I settled on 24.4 grains of 8208, LC 2011 brass, wolf SRM primers, and the 82gr bullets at 2.490". It shoots consistently in the .3-.5 range, and the PVM-21 gave me an average velocity of 2904. I rarely, rarely, rarely shoot for groups, but here is a picture of a target I took during load development:
IMG_0395.jpg

Like I said, I hate shooting groups because I just end up chasing my tail. Rarely do I shoot a group this good.

Using the "litz tested profile" as my baseline my data was as follows (first data point being what Shooter called for, the second data point being what my actual was):

300 - unpointed call - 1.0 mils/pointed actual - 1.0
500 - unpointed call - 2.7/ pointed actual - 2.6
700 - unpointed call - 4.8/ pointed actual - 4.6 (very noticeable here, and this is where I started tweaking my bc adjustments. I had a nice 4 inch group high and right)
900 (DA change to 2500 from 1500-ish)- unpointed call - 7.4/ pointed actual - 7.0
1000 - unpointed call - 9.1/ pointed actual - 8.5 (wind, for reference was shifting quite a bit from 5-10mph, and was swirling quite a bit, but the wind difference between pointed vs non pointed is not quite as significant...differing by only .1 mil at 1k)

The actual BC of the pointed bullet, out of my 26" 6.5 twist Brux, at 2900fps equates to a G1 of .490 perfectly, which surprised me greatly....a gain of approximately 10% over the listed BC of .444. I'll be the first to say that I might have done some calculating wrong, but I highly doubt it. For the type of competing that I regularly take part in, specifically tac matches in the PRS, it is most definitely worth it to point this bullet in this rifle.

In summary, I love my .223, it's more than capable for tactical matches and long range shooting with the proper bullet, and Roberts Precision Rifles is one hell of a gunsmith. Now I need to convince all Match Directors to allow a 223 bolt gun in the matches!

 
Re: .223

Very nice! How does that little bullet hold up in the wind? I like the idea of having a practice bolt gun in .223.
 
Re: .223

I love that setup! 6.5 twist well done!

Can't beat the lead time either.
 
Re: .223

Wind is SLIGHTLY less than my .308 155 load. With a 10 mph wind from my 3:00 at 2000 DA: 600 yards - 1.2 mils, 1000 yards - 2.3 mils.

The only downsides are 1) tough to spot misses and correct at longer distances 2) Not a lot of energy on target at distance, so impacts are tough to spot on high mirage days.
 
Re: .223

Nice job J. Is that close to a max load or is there room for more? Obviously you found the accuracy node.
 
Re: .223

Good Topic. I have a MK12ish that does very well with the 77grns and have been thinking about building a 223 bolt gun. This gives me alittle more motivation.
 
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300 - unpointed call - 1.0 mils/pointed actual - 1.0
500 - unpointed call - 2.7/ pointed actual - 2.6
700 - unpointed call - 4.8/ pointed actual - 4.6

Excuse the newbie question please? What is a "unpointed call"?
 
Re: .223

Russell - I think I have more room to step on it, but I'm happy with where I am speed/accuracy wise. The primers are slightly flat, but I have no bolt lift issues, and no case head marking. We'll see how long the primer pockets hold.

"Unpointed call" is the output that my ballistic app gave me with the "litz profile" 82gr BTHP without any modification to the bullet B.C. "Pointed actual" is the actual elevation that I needed with the pointed bullet and the speed that I entered. In other words we have theoretical vs. actual results.

Thanks G, I'm going to Bayou to shoot it tomorrow morning at 600...
 
Re: .223

We'll see tomorrow...Wish I was in Kingsville at RO, but that's a given.
 
Re: .223

You're welcome. Call Aaron, he's good people, and built one hell of a rifle.
 
Re: .223

Nice stick!

Did this replace that 22" 223AI you had a year or three ago that was running 80s @ 2950fps?

Also, what do you use to point the bullets?
 
Re: .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What, no 223AI? </div></div>

That was my first thought too.

Nice looking rifle, still waiting my on 7.5t Rock to arrive.
 
Re: .223

Still have the 223ai, still love, but I hate forming brass. More importantly, my main competition rifle is a 26" .260, and I wanted to set up the .223 identically to it for training without burning my 260 barrel up. Probably overkill, I admit.

I use the Whidden pointing system. It's expensive for what it is, and it doesn't feel near as quality as my Redding dies (very subjective statement, I realize that), but the results are hard to argue with. It's a very, very simple process to point the bullets, and I am happy with how they turn out.
 
Re: .223

Another stupid question (thanks for humoring me)...

Any reason you chose 82gr Bergers in this rifle over the 80.5gr Fullbore or the 80 JLK that you fed your AI?
 
Re: .223

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I use the Whidden pointing system. It's expensive for what it is, and it doesn't feel near as quality as my Redding dies (very subjective statement, I realize that), but the results are hard to argue with. It's a very, very simple process to point the bullets, and I am happy with how they turn out. </div></div>

Do you need to do any bullet sorting with that. I have looked at getting one many times just have not pulled the trigger yet.
 
Re: .223

Really nice seeing some .223 love here. I've got one coming any time now from Mike Buch for my wife. Not a 26"'er on that fast a twist but 18" w/ 1-8" stuck in a McM A5.

Very nice!!!!!
 
Re: .223

Pipes,

The more I look at this rifle the more I want one. By the way, are you running this at the next NTRP or Rifles Only match? JK/LOL