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.224 Valkarye Accuracy Experience

B

Bergara 6mm

Private
Minuteman
Aug 16, 2018
58
12
Memphis, TN
I have built a 224 valkarye with PSA 20" upper 1/7 twist (father gave it to me as a bday gift), AeroPrecision lower with Magpul PRS stock, Athelon Cronos BTR 4.5-29, Geissele Hi-Speed Nat Match Trigger, JP 20 moa scope mount, and a Harris bi-pod.

Went to break in barrel (i know--its needed--its not needed--its a waste of ammo--insert flames here) using the abbreviated JP break in procedure, and shooting the Hornady 88 gr eld match; it was absolutely the worst groups i have seen out of a modern firearm. Didn't even want to make adjustments to the scope as it was 3+ inches all over the place at 100 yards. Went home thinking "thats what i get for trying to build a gun off of a budget upper/barrel".

Went back to the range today to shoot my bolt gun, and thought I would used the cheap ammo i bought for the Valkarye to see if there is any truth to some of the comments i have seen online about the 1/7 not being able to stabilize the larger bullets. American eagle TMJ 75 grain shot 10 5 shot groups at inch or better. Its like a different gun. Now my question is does someone make a round that is lower grain with better ballistics than this round. Looks like it will be fine to shoot at my home 600 yd range, but not much use past that.

Please let me know if any other info is needed on my setup.

I am actually looking to educate myself, not defend a bad position; so any advice is much appreciated!
 
Forgot to add that i am using an area 419 break.....Not sure that it matters, but want to give all the details on my setup.
 
From what I have seen the 75gr TMJ shoot better out of the barrels that were chambered with the bad long freebore reamers but everything else shoots worse. Barrels with the correct SAAMI spec reamer shoot the 88ELD and 90smk better. In the beginning I'm not sure Federal and Hornady knew there were bad reamers/chambers out there so not sure which chamber they used to test/develop their ammo. Try shooting the 75tmj in the PSA, if that is the kind of ammo you want to shoot you will have a decent combination. Hornady and Federal are both working on new ammo with new bullets, Berger and Barnes.
 
It sounds like it's the chamber issue many are seeing in the PSA/Savage MSR (that I've been reading about, obviously this is my speculation) I have also seen this first hand at the range with a PSA upper. It shot the 75 grains decent, but the 88 grain and 90 were a shot gun pattern. I would keep trying with some different ammo (experimenting). The 75 grain actually is solid ammo. I shot mine out to 600 before I started seeing huge wind issues. The 88/90 grain is where it's at for the longer range stuff in this cartridge.

EDIT : almost forgot... mentioned this in another post. Check your mount for your bipod (keymod/mloc) Is the screw digging into your barrel? You'll see it if it is. Mine was on another upper and causing all sorts of accuracy problems. loading the bipod + barrel whip was hitting the screw and ... groups go to shit!
 
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:O. I"m worried now I'll suffer this fate. I have 2 PSA .224 Valkarie barrels. Both shoot the 75's great. I've only tried the 90gr federal fusion otherwise, and that shoots ok. Shoots what I would say is MOA with an occasional flier to 2-3 MOA level.

I will be doing some reloading soon with 75gr ELD, 80gr ELD and 88gr ELD to see how they shoot. If they are shotgun pattern, will explore other barrels or see if PSA will fix etc...
 
I've got the 20" PSA barrel and just shot some more rounds this weekend. A month ago, when I first shot the rifle, the groups were terrible and at 1000 yards, I was getting flyers all over the place with the Federal 90 gr Match and the Hornady 88 Match. Saturday, I had 2 new boxes of ammo, both the 90Gr Federal Match and the Hornady 88 gr Match. Both groups were an inch or better and I was hitting center of the steel at 1000 yards easily. I'm starting to think that it was an ammunition problem. Could be a barrel break in issue, as I've now got over 250 rounds down the barrel. I did figure out that I need a better trigger. I just dropped a RRA 2 stage in, that I had laying around.
 
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ok that makes me feel a bit better.

I will say on my first barrel I was getting 2-3" groups for the first couple boxes of 75gr fmj. I'm too cheap to shoot $$$ ammo in my guns until I verify I like them and I'm not the biggest issue. I know I may be silly in that regard, but I've been bitten too many times in the past buying expensive ammo only to be disappointed. Generally, once I got used to the gun, and removed most of the limitations I myself put on the firearm, the $$$ ammo shot way way better. Now I reload, so it's a different obsession lol. Anyway, after that, my first barrel started to magically group at about 1" with that cheaper factory 75gr FMJ. I then shot some 90gr fusion and it did well with occasional fliers. I'm hoping the ELD's I load up will work well, or I should say I can find a combo that out shoots the factory 75gr FMJ.

My wife missed UPS today and signature was required so I have to wait until tomorrow to get my dies etc.... I'm bummed I didn't get to start any .224 Valkarie or 6.5 Creedmoor workups tonight, but I did get a chance to load some 73gr ELD's into 5.56Nato tonight. Man, all this prep on .308, valkarie, 6.5 Creedmoor has me looking at my 5.56 brass sideways. I hope the Sinclair mandrels help me as my neck concentricies and tension are garbage. Some bullets almost fell into the mouths and some were so tight I thought they would get shaved. Probably explain why I couldn't get anything other than 55gr and 62 gr bullets to group at all in my AR's. Hornady 55gr SP's would probably get 1MOA installed upside down, that bullet just shoots. 68gr/75gr HPBT's would group 3-5" in most cases. Anyway, I'm rambling and sorry. Just excited to get started with some new calibers to reload for :).
 
Both of mine shot like shit with the 88gr ELD ammo compared to how they shoot with the Federal 90gr SMK, 75gr FMJ, and 60gr NBT. Both hammer with those as well as my 95gr SMK loads and the best I could get with the Hornady was 1.25-1.5” groups.

I ordered 500 88gr ELD-M bullets as well and received them before the ammo so I’m not surprised why it shot like it did. Of the 20 random ones I pulled to weigh and measure they varied in weight by a full grain and the bearing surface as much as .007”. That’s absolute trash for a match grade projectile.

I’d buy a box or two of the Federal 90gr and see if your gun likes that.

If you load I’d highly suggest the 80.5gr Berger Fullbore combined with Starline brass and either Varget or 8208. That bullet isn’t jump sensitive at all so you should get it to shoot great regardless of your freebore and it has a great BC for a 80gr bullet. Best of all the quality control and consistency is top notch as you’d expect from Berger.
 
I started experimenting with reloads for the Valkyrie too. I was surprised to see how badly one of my loads performed compared to another load I was trying, because there was only about a .4 grn. difference in the load. This was like an over 2" group compared to sub - 1" group with that small of a difference in powder charge. I need to try it again, just to make sure it wasn't me.
 
Steelhead said:
I started experimenting with reloads for the Valkyrie too. I was surprised to see how badly one of my loads performed compared to another load I was trying, because there was only about a .4 grn. difference in the load. This was like an over 2" group compared to sub - 1" group with that small of a difference in powder charge. I need to try it again, just to make sure it wasn't me.
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You have to consider the normal charge weight. 0.4 gr is almost 2% difference in total charge weight.
 
Yeah .4gr is a lot when you’re talking 25gr of powder +/-. Even in a cartridge with twice the capacity that could throw it in or out of a node.

Loading with sloppy tolerances is no fault to the cartridge.
 
lash said:
You have to consider the normal charge weight. 0.4 gr is almost 2% difference in total charge weight.
Click to expand...

Point taken. However, I haven't seen accuracy go that bad with and .223 loads that I've tried. It just seemed weird at the time.
 
redneckbmxer24 said:
Loading with sloppy tolerances is no fault to the cartridge.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean by this comment. Each load was carefully weighed, cartridges measured, prep'd, etc. The huge difference in accuracy was surprising to me. I've never seen that big of a difference in accuracy in any of my "match grade" loads for .223, 6mm, 6.5mm, .308, .300WM, .338's, etc. Usually groups would go from 1.5" down to .25" when load developing. Not well over 2", approaching 3". Could very well have been my shooting at the time too. I plan to try that load again, just to make sure.
 
80 ELD over RL15 3000 fps and consistent 1/2 moa out of my factory JP gun. try the 80 ELDS a lot of us have ditched the 90s and 88s in favor of the 80.
 
Since I don’t hand load, I’m stuck with the 75 gr Federal for now. Let’s me get in some practice at 600 yds till bison armory has their eld 80’s or Sierra match kings in 80!

Anybody know what the g7 drag model would be for the 75gr federal to load into my Kestrel? Or should I just use the g1 federal lists and not worry about it?
 
I have a JP 22” barrel that hates the 88’s. It hates 88’s in factory match, it hates 88’s with Superformance, it hates 88’s with CFE and it hates em with R17. So the 90grn Sierras that the 1:7 wont shoot....it likes! Go figure.
Starline brass, 450 primers and some R17 giving me 1/2 MOA at 100. Haven’t chrono them yet or stretched them out, but daddy likes the 90’s. Also just got a Forster micro seating die. The Redding seating die is a total POS. Run out on rounds anywhere from .007 to .018 ?
 
JM4590 said:
I have a JP 22” barrel that hates the 88’s. It hates 88’s in factory match, it hates 88’s with Superformance, it hates 88’s with CFE and it hates em with R17. So the 90grn Sierras that the 1:7 wont shoot....it likes! Go figure.
Starline brass, 450 primers and some R17 giving me 1/2 MOA at 100. Haven’t chrono them yet or stretched them out, but daddy likes the 90’s. Also just got a Forster micro seating die. The Redding seating die is a total POS. Run out on rounds anywhere from .007 to .018 ?
Click to expand...

You finding that runout on virgin brass or 1x? I've found that new virgin brass shows excessive runout but 1x no issues. I called Forster about a seating die a few years ago when I saw this crasy runout on rounds using virgin brass. They said that's normal.
 
I have a Craddock Precision upper with a 22” Criterion 1:7 barrel. The sweet spot for me was the 80-85 grain bullets. I was able to get the 90 SMK’s to shoot 1/2 MOA but it took a lot more work to get it there. Shooting 80 ELDM’s and 85 Nosler RDF’s I found several powders and charge weights that gave me sub 1/2moa groups. With the 90’s I found exactly 1 bullet and powder combo that worked. The 80’s and 85’s are amazing out of the rifle though.
 
I’m finding the run out on both virgin and 1x. Have yet to use the Forster die. I checked factory ammo runout and it was avg around .007. I use the Redding comp dies for several other rounds and can keep run out to .005 or less. Those dies have the spring loaded bushing that holds the case straight and keeps bullet aligned while seating. It appears that Redding is not ready to go all in yet on this round, because I have not found any bushing sizing dies or seating dies from them for this round. I have emailed them and they told me the dies are in the works. The sizing die is GTG. Gives me consistent .002 neck tension. Maybe it matters and maybe it doesn’t. I’m getting the groups with the crappy runout.... but ohhh what may happen if that gets tightened up!
 
JM4590 said:
I’m finding the run out on both virgin and 1x. Have yet to use the Forster die. I checked factory ammo runout and it was avg around .007. I use the Redding comp dies for several other rounds and can keep run out to .005 or less. Those dies have the spring loaded bushing that holds the case straight and keeps bullet aligned while seating. It appears that Redding is not ready to go all in yet on this round, because I have not found any bushing sizing dies or seating dies from them for this round. I have emailed them and they told me the dies are in the works. The sizing die is GTG. Gives me consistent .002 neck tension. Maybe it matters and maybe it doesn’t. I’m getting the groups with the crappy runout.... but ohhh what may happen if that gets tightened up!
Click to expand...

.007 TIR or Actual runout?

You do know when you measure runout on a concentricity gauge the reading you get is your TIR (Total Induced Runout) which you need to divide by 2. That number would be your Actual Runout...So if your factory ammo is showing .007 TIR than it's actually .0035" actual runout which is acceptable match ammo numbers.
 
I started with a 20" PSA upper, and it also shot like shit with the 90gr factory loads, and did decent with the 75 FMJ.

Swapped barrel for a 22" Ballistic Advantage bull to add some weight up front for PRS type matches, and hoping the "better" barrel (still 1:7) would shoot the heavier bullets better, and it was a little better, but still a shotgun at 100-yds.

Bought the components to load, RCBS Full Length Sizer and Forster Micro Seating Die in a Redding Turret T7. Also bought a crimp die, but curious if I need to use it as I won't be shooting more than 10-12 rounds in a magazine and no real sustained fire (10 rounds over 1.5 to 2 minutes)

So, question is do you think I still need to run a crimp die, or just let good neck tension manage the recoil?
 
Cbass1187 said:
I started with a 20" PSA upper, and it also shot like shit with the 90gr factory loads, and did decent with the 75 FMJ.

Swapped barrel for a 22" Ballistic Advantage bull to add some weight up front for PRS type matches, and hoping the "better" barrel (still 1:7) would shoot the heavier bullets better, and it was a little better, but still a shotgun at 100-yds.

Bought the components to load, RCBS Full Length Sizer and Forster Micro Seating Die in a Redding Turret T7. Also bought a crimp die, but curious if I need to use it as I won't be shooting more than 10-12 rounds in a magazine and no real sustained fire (10 rounds over 1.5 to 2 minutes)

So, question is do you think I still need to run a crimp die, or just let good neck tension manage the recoil?
Click to expand...

Chances are that the RCBS FL size die will be overworking the brass and the expander ball may possibly induce more run out than you want to see, if you have a mandrel die use the turning mandrel to open the necks back up after sizing with the expander ball removed from the FL die.
Not sure what crimp die you have but the LEE FCD has worked well for me with hunting bullets that did not have a cannelure but can produce some erratic results with thin jacketed match bullets.
 
Normally the barrels chambered with the messed up long freebore will shoot the 75gr TMJs better but shoot all other factory ammo poorly. The barrels chambered with the shorter SAAMI freebore shoot the 90smk and 88ELD better but don't like the 75tmj. There is tons of reloading info on the Valkyrie facebook pages. You can reload either to shoot well but with the long freebore many times the OAL is too long to use in a mag.
 
I have a 24” 1:7 faxon barrel and it shoots the 75gr tmj and 88 eld factory ammo 1moa or better. I still have less than 100 rounds through the barrel, so I can only assume the groups will improve as it builds more of a consistent pass through the barrel.

My groups with the 88’s was two touching and 1 that put me right at 1moa. Pretty much the same with the 75 tmj. If I decided to reload, I am sure it would be even better as well. The Faxon barrel was also a lot cheaper than a craddock barrel but more than a PSA.
 
Anyone ever use W748 in their .224 Val loads? I managed to load up some W748 I had left over in my hopper thinking it was CFE :(. I have it loaded in a ladder so I'm not worried about blowing up gun as I'll fire the low powder amount first and gauge the pressure signs and stop if I start seeing them. I think I'm getting "sometimer's disease". Learned a lesson to mark my hoppers now as with the kids and work etc... I get pulled away from my hobby for weeks at a time, and then forget wtf I was doing. UGH! I guess if anything I'll have some extra data lol.

Also, anyone try the Green Mountain Valkarie barrel. If my PSA barrels don't end up shooting well enough with my reloads I may try a different maker.
 
NEMOs site states that their Valkyrie barrel is a 1:7 twist, so if yours was a 1:8 and they dismissed that as okay, it doubly speaks to me of a company only interested in profiting and not about customers or the product’s performance. Add to that the acceptance of almost 3” groups at 100 yards as acceptable accuracy for a rifle designed to shoot 1300 and you have a $2900 battle rifle good for minute of man at about 300 yards.
 
I understand and get it. I’m not sure that I would have done any different under your exact circumstances. It sucks the way that it turned out.
 
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About to pull the trigger on the craddock precision 22” upper “works” to replace my psa upper. I want something that can shoot the 88-90 gr eld bullets. I am thinking of ordering in 1:6.5 Vs 1:7. Thoughts?
 
At this point you can go with an unknown and maybe have a good experience, or you can buy the JP and know your Valkyrie will perform. Frank's videos really do show the guys at JP have taken this cartridge seriously, done the engineering work and produced a very accurate rifle.
 
lash said:
NEMOs site states that their Valkyrie barrel is a 1:7 twist, so if yours was a 1:8 and they dismissed that as okay, it doubly speaks to me of a company only interested in profiting and not about customers or the product’s performance. Add to that the acceptance of almost 3” groups at 100 yards as acceptable accuracy for a rifle designed to shoot 1300 and you have a $2900 battle rifle good for minute of man at about 300 yards.
Click to expand...
$3000 is a ridic amount of money to pay for a Valkyrie imo. I just built a 300 Norma mag bolt gun with optic for $3500 that shoots 1/2 MOA. I would guess a 224V craddock upper and decent lower would get you that for about half the price.
 
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jpgolffl said:
$3000 is a ridic amount of money to pay for a Valkyrie imo. I just built a 300 Norma mag bolt gun with optic for $3500 that shoots 1/2 MOA. I would guess a 224V craddock upper and decent lower would get you that for about half the price.
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Yes, it will.
 
I am hoping to push my Faxon barrel a little further this weekend. So far, it has shot the 88 and 77 factory ammo consistently under 1 moa at 100yds. 24” 1:7 twist.
 
I’m getting better than 1 moa out of psa upper with the 75 gr tmj federal, and ive shot it at 100 and 600. Eld and gold medals shotgun pattern.
 
American Eagle 75gr puts them in one hole with my JP, and it loves the 88s

IMG_0701.jpg


I actually shot the 1st two rounds, saw only 1 hole and shifted my POA a bit to "see" the other the first time I tried it. So yes there are 3 in there.
IMG_0420.jpg
 
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Lowlight said:
American Eagle 75gr puts them in one hole with my JP, and it loves the 88s

View attachment 6974475

I actually shot the 1st two rounds, saw only 1 hole and shifted my POA a bit to "see" the other the first time I tried it. So yes there are 3 in there.
View attachment 6974474
Click to expand...

Really wish someone would make a good 75 ELDM load for the 224V or wish they would use that American Eagle load and swap out projectiles. I’ve seen the American Eagle load print impressive groups from a lot of different rifles across the 224V wave.
 
Hornady has a 75 or 77gr bthp load coming out in their black line of ammunition. I don’t remember which grain weight it is, but hopefully it shoots good.
 
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aslrookie said:
Hornady has a 75 or 77gr bthp load coming out in their black line of ammunition. I don’t remember which grain weight it is, but hopefully it shoots good.
Click to expand...

They are using their 75 but it’s the bthp and the BC is nowhere near as impressive as the 75 ELDM. Complete bummer as to why they would use the bthp.
 
Pusher591 said:
They are using their 75 but it’s the bthp and the BC is nowhere near as impressive as the 75 ELDM. Complete bummer as to why they would use the bthp.
Click to expand...

I agree. Maybe they are trying to keep costs down to compete against the federal 77gr? I haven’t seen any pricing yet, so that is just speculation on my part.
 
I had seen several threads touting the Craddock precision route, but everyone seems to be only JP in the comments here. Is Craddock not a good builder?
 
Bergara 6mm said:
I had seen several threads touting the Craddock precision route, but everyone seems to be only JP in the comments here. Is Craddock not a good builder?
Click to expand...

Trust me, Craddock is the AR man. Not sure why any haven’t chimed in so far but Craddock work is exceptional. He was one of the ones who got the chamber on the 224V right.
 
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brianc74 said:
With the little experience I have with the 224 Valkyrie. I have discovered DO NOT GET A NEMO RIFLE if you want accuracy. I got a Nemo rifle last week. Seasoned the rifle per their recommended seasoning process. I’m geting very inconsistent accuracy. One group will be 0.887” then the next group after Barrel rest will be almost 3.0” at one hundred yards. With inconsistent group locations on the target. It’s not the scope, Mount, or shooting platform. I’m sure it’s not me aswell. As I shot my buddy’s cheep bushmaster and shot a 0.914” twenty shot group with factory ammo at the same time. I took the rifle to them on Monday. They gave it back to me on Tuesday with groups they shot with the rifle. Best group was 0.800 and worst was 2.78” per them. But they had targets that had been cut up. Appeared like they hand picked the best targets to show me. Even though the accuracy appeared to be really crappy for a $2900 rifle. They sent me on my way on Tuesday with a box of ammo for my troubles. I went straight out to the range with that box of ammo. Still crappy accuracy. I too it back to them first thing yesterday morning. I talked again to the ceo. He gave me the impression that this accuracy is exceptable to him and this is just my issue. But he will have someone shoot it again if it will make me happy. By the way. The barrel is engraved 1-8 twist. I checked the twist my self. It is a 1-8. I brought that issue up to him along with the over gassing . He dismissed. Said the engraver messed up and that the over gassing was because I was using my suppressor. But when I ordered the rifle. I asked bout the use of my suppressor. The sales person stated they designed the rifle to be used with a suppressor and that the rifle will not get over gassed at all. He also stated I should be getting 1/2” groups at 100 yards with factory ammo all day long. That the 224 Valkyrie is their flagship for accuracy in the field. That I will be able to shoot little groups with eas and ring steel out to 1300 yards no problem.

In my opinion at this time. They built a rifle without truly testing the rifle and are only interested in making the sale and not backing their product.
In my opinion Nemo Arms sucks at this time.

Brian
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Never heard of them.. but I have had the local AR builders give me the same song and dance.. telling me all they use is loather Walther barrels and JP intenals.. then you get the rifle and it's some bullshit barrel and dpms internals.. if I ever buy a gas gun again it will be a Seekins or a JP.. fun y thing is Seekins is only 2 hours from me!

I would tell them you want to return the rifle .
 
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