Looking into a .224 valkyrie build and was curious for those that have done it in the ar-15 platform what were the issues you ran into? Seriously considering this round for coyotes. Currently running 7.62x39 but it’s a dud after 200
- Thread starter Jjames0213
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What barrel or upper did you go with?
BSF 20” carbon barrel with Odin works upper receiver and handguard. I have a JP 22” super match barrel on the shelf that was going to be my day gun, it’s shoots lights out but I’m a big fan of carbon barrels and ended up with an ar10 243 as my other hunting rifle
I've been playing around with building another upper (if the reloading componentry shortage ever eases up). Looking at .224 Valkyrie, .224 Grendel, or a 6mm ARC.
It'll be a coyote killer so I don't really want over a 20" barrel (and it'll be sporting a 9" suppressor on top of that).
I've started looking at coyote cartridges a bit differently. While everyone looks out to where a bullet starts to slip transonic, I've started looking at where it slips below 1800fps (a pretty common more-or-less expansion threshold). Why? I'd like to get good expansion and finish anything living pretty quick (granted, it's hard to kill a coyote wrong). Out of a 16" .223 mag fed AR, at 1,000'-1,200'ASL (where I'm at) 1,800fps usually happens with any of the higher BC bullets (53 V-Max @ 3,000fps or 73 ELD @ 2700) around 400-450 yards tops. Yes, it can vary a bit, but that's pretty much the consensus according to my dinking around on Strelok.
A 75 ELD-M will carry 1,800fps to around 650 yards at 2,900fps muzzle velocity. That's where I'd like to be. Per Hogdon data, that appears to be leaning on the Valk a bit, but from what I can figure, should be about right in the Grendel case (again, a 20" tube). FWIW, the ARC can get to 650, but only with 108's or similar BC's. Again, out of a 20" tube. Again, dinking around on Strelok.
One thing to bear in mind in these trying times, there appears to be more Grendel based brass available to form off of than Valkyrie/SPC. Lapua seems to be making 6.5 Grendel and .220 Russian cases occasionally. Either way, I'd buy enough brass up front to last the life of the barrel.
Watching this thread with interest, as I'm starting on a new hunting lease this spring. Haven't been there yet and have no idea what the place looks like, kinda doubt I'll NEED anything more than my .223, but I still want a bigger cased .22 feeding in an AR!
It'll be a coyote killer so I don't really want over a 20" barrel (and it'll be sporting a 9" suppressor on top of that).
I've started looking at coyote cartridges a bit differently. While everyone looks out to where a bullet starts to slip transonic, I've started looking at where it slips below 1800fps (a pretty common more-or-less expansion threshold). Why? I'd like to get good expansion and finish anything living pretty quick (granted, it's hard to kill a coyote wrong). Out of a 16" .223 mag fed AR, at 1,000'-1,200'ASL (where I'm at) 1,800fps usually happens with any of the higher BC bullets (53 V-Max @ 3,000fps or 73 ELD @ 2700) around 400-450 yards tops. Yes, it can vary a bit, but that's pretty much the consensus according to my dinking around on Strelok.
A 75 ELD-M will carry 1,800fps to around 650 yards at 2,900fps muzzle velocity. That's where I'd like to be. Per Hogdon data, that appears to be leaning on the Valk a bit, but from what I can figure, should be about right in the Grendel case (again, a 20" tube). FWIW, the ARC can get to 650, but only with 108's or similar BC's. Again, out of a 20" tube. Again, dinking around on Strelok.
One thing to bear in mind in these trying times, there appears to be more Grendel based brass available to form off of than Valkyrie/SPC. Lapua seems to be making 6.5 Grendel and .220 Russian cases occasionally. Either way, I'd buy enough brass up front to last the life of the barrel.
Watching this thread with interest, as I'm starting on a new hunting lease this spring. Haven't been there yet and have no idea what the place looks like, kinda doubt I'll NEED anything more than my .223, but I still want a bigger cased .22 feeding in an AR!
Same here.
I want the same as you do. The problem I have with the .223 like you described is the “heavier” bullets for that round lose the velocity and KE faster. The .224 seems to overcome that issue but you are definitely right with the brass availability as well.
Just seeing what is out there and how much time and energy I want to mess around with before making up my mind. Bullets don’t seem to be an issue however new brass seems to be scarce for the time being.
Let me know what you decide if going this route and I will do the same.
I want the same as you do. The problem I have with the .223 like you described is the “heavier” bullets for that round lose the velocity and KE faster. The .224 seems to overcome that issue but you are definitely right with the brass availability as well.
Just seeing what is out there and how much time and energy I want to mess around with before making up my mind. Bullets don’t seem to be an issue however new brass seems to be scarce for the time being.
Let me know what you decide if going this route and I will do the same.
Neither my Criterion or Rainer Arms UltraMatch barrels will cycle Hornady 88gr reliably. Need to try a few things (lighter than standard buffers, softer than normal springs, different gas rings then port opening).
Even over-pressure Hornady ammo wouldn't reliably cycle. No problems with the 75 or 90gr Federal loads.
Even over-pressure Hornady ammo wouldn't reliably cycle. No problems with the 75 or 90gr Federal loads.
I have a .224V I put together finely this year even after everyone said:
- “You won’t get it to feed!”
- “You’ll have accuracy problems!”
Welp its now my favorite gas gun. I grabbed a Bartlin 5R 20” SDM profile from Craddock, JP 6.8SPC bolt and feed it through PRI mags.
End up with a sub - MOA/light recoiling gas gun that weighs in at about 10lbs. I can feed it cheaper that my 5.56 SPRs but with ballistic performance (elevation/windage) that falls between my .308’s and 6.5CM
The FGMM 90 grain SMKs are 0.8-1.0 and make for a 5 MPH gun but the 75 grain AE are 0.9-1.1 MOA with an occasional flyer that might bump that to 1.3 or so. The lower BC drops it to 4 MPH which isn’t bad for a small gram gasser and at $0.60 a round, I’ve found this to be a great compromise for being able to shoot more.
Chrono
100y zero (prone)
300y tripod (sitting)
- “You won’t get it to feed!”
- “You’ll have accuracy problems!”
Welp its now my favorite gas gun. I grabbed a Bartlin 5R 20” SDM profile from Craddock, JP 6.8SPC bolt and feed it through PRI mags.
End up with a sub - MOA/light recoiling gas gun that weighs in at about 10lbs. I can feed it cheaper that my 5.56 SPRs but with ballistic performance (elevation/windage) that falls between my .308’s and 6.5CM
The FGMM 90 grain SMKs are 0.8-1.0 and make for a 5 MPH gun but the 75 grain AE are 0.9-1.1 MOA with an occasional flyer that might bump that to 1.3 or so. The lower BC drops it to 4 MPH which isn’t bad for a small gram gasser and at $0.60 a round, I’ve found this to be a great compromise for being able to shoot more.
Chrono
100y zero (prone)
300y tripod (sitting)
If anyone has any ammo they want to part ways with let me know. Planning to reload my own but I won’t pass on some ammo deals either.
I had a Faxon 24” barrel that was pretty accurate with factory 88 and 75gr ammo. mini IPSC steel at 750 was no big deal. I never shot the super lightweight varmint ammo because even pre panic prices it was like $36/box.
I put one together not too long ago and it is my favorite gas gun. Aero m4E1 enhanced upper and lower with a bison armory 20” spr barrel. It is a consistent 1/2 moa with 88 eld and cfe223. The 88 eld at just over 2700 FPS in an AR is pretty awesome. The only issue is the lack of brass right now. I use duramag mags and have zero issues with feeding 88s at 2.3”.
I am currently building an upper with solgw receiver, jp barrel, aero lightweight 15” handguard, bcm ambi charging handle, faxon bcg and cerakote with a camo pattern.
So a mutt if you will. Hahahaha
Pard has a 16” Faxon 6 Arc that shoots really well.
Been looking at their Valkyrie barrels. And their Arc barrels…..and .223. barrels….
Been looking at their Valkyrie barrels. And their Arc barrels…..and .223. barrels….
I also have a 22” Rock Creek from Craddock with a matching bolt. The rest of mine is a Frankengun from high quality components. I love it.
As to cycling issues, I used the JP SCS system and an adjustable gas block to tune it. Once I got it cycling right, it shoots both 88 Hornady and 75 Federal equally well and is a laser with both up to about 600, then the 88 is better with the 75 losing ground after that accuracy wise.
The Federal 90gr Superformance also shoots really well, but costs a lot more and requires a spring change and gas block adjustment to not over cycle.
What did it take get the Federal and Hornady to cycle? Light spring/weight?
My 22" RLGS with rifle buffer setup and 18" R+1, A5H0 setup easily cycle the Federal, but not so much the Hornady; with the AGBs partially closed for the Federal and full open for the Hornady. Going to try a rifle buffer with Al weights and lower force springs next.
Edit: then just open the gas ports.
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Are you running an AGB?
Yes, the 22" has a Wojtek ARTKO and the 18' has a Superlative Arms. For the 75gr Federal, the 22" runs partially closed and the 18" runs unobstructed and unvented. I'm pretty certain both barrels have undersized gas ports for the Hornady. But am surprised there is such a large difference between brands.
Interesting, I guess drill them out a smidge, with the block you can dial it back in.
The Federal 90g Superformance worked great with normal spring and fairly open adjustment on the SA AGB. +2 gas. When I switched to the Hornady 88g, I had to drop to the lightest weight spring in the SCS set and a mostly closed AGB. That same setting works on the AE 75s also though they eject a bit earlier. If I had enough of either, I’d adjust for each separately for optimal ejection and cycling.
All of the Federal loads cycle hotter than the Hornady, yet I see slight pressure signs with the Hornady at times. It’s weird.
I suppose I need to get some dies and develop a load I can afford and just setup for that. Sorta defeats the original purpose that I chose the .224V, but thems the times we live in, so I’ll roll with it.
I just put together a mid-budget AR/.224V build and ignored all the negative comments about this caliber in general.
So far, the build looks like this:
PSA lower
Colt A2 upper
Geissele Match Trigger
Aero Precision enhanced buffer tube
Tubb flat wound buffer spring
home-made H2 buffer
LMT DMR 5.56 buttstock
Toolcraft nitrided bolt carrier
JP enhanced bolt
Criterion 18", 1:6.5T barrel
PRI handguard and front sight/gas-block
Surefire muzzle brake
Trijicon Credo 2.5-10x scope
LaRue QD scope mount
C-Products (Duramag) 28 round 6.8SPC mags
First time on paper I was using Federal 90gr SMK 'seconds' and he velocity was coming in at 2644fps with a SD of 13fps. My first group measured just over an inch at 100 yards. But, this was just laying in the dirt with a bipod, 15mph headwind, and dust blowing in my face. Not the best shooting conditions at all. After getting the scope zeroed the best I could in the conditions, I shot another 5 shot group that tightened up to about .75". I put about 100 rounds through it before I called it a day because of the conditions. None of the groups were worse than 1.5".
Some observations:
With better conditions at a proper rifle range, I'm pretty confident that this rifle should easily manage 0.5" groups with some load development.
The Trijicon Credo scope sucks balls.
Contrary to all the bad press and reviews about C-Products mags, the ones I had worked flawlessly.
The Criterion barrel did not disappoint. Again, a barrel manufacturer that's using button rifling and producing very good results. I have always believed that the method of barrel manufacture is insignificant, and that it's the inspection of the barrels before they are sold to the end user that has the most significance in how well it shoots. There's no doubt that dimensions will vary on button rifled barrels due to the wear over time of the Tungsten Carbide button. But if the manufacturer is sizing them correctly and replacing them frequently, this process produces good quality barrels that the masses can afford.
So far, the build looks like this:
PSA lower
Colt A2 upper
Geissele Match Trigger
Aero Precision enhanced buffer tube
Tubb flat wound buffer spring
home-made H2 buffer
LMT DMR 5.56 buttstock
Toolcraft nitrided bolt carrier
JP enhanced bolt
Criterion 18", 1:6.5T barrel
PRI handguard and front sight/gas-block
Surefire muzzle brake
Trijicon Credo 2.5-10x scope
LaRue QD scope mount
C-Products (Duramag) 28 round 6.8SPC mags
First time on paper I was using Federal 90gr SMK 'seconds' and he velocity was coming in at 2644fps with a SD of 13fps. My first group measured just over an inch at 100 yards. But, this was just laying in the dirt with a bipod, 15mph headwind, and dust blowing in my face. Not the best shooting conditions at all. After getting the scope zeroed the best I could in the conditions, I shot another 5 shot group that tightened up to about .75". I put about 100 rounds through it before I called it a day because of the conditions. None of the groups were worse than 1.5".
Some observations:
With better conditions at a proper rifle range, I'm pretty confident that this rifle should easily manage 0.5" groups with some load development.
The Trijicon Credo scope sucks balls.
Contrary to all the bad press and reviews about C-Products mags, the ones I had worked flawlessly.
The Criterion barrel did not disappoint. Again, a barrel manufacturer that's using button rifling and producing very good results. I have always believed that the method of barrel manufacture is insignificant, and that it's the inspection of the barrels before they are sold to the end user that has the most significance in how well it shoots. There's no doubt that dimensions will vary on button rifled barrels due to the wear over time of the Tungsten Carbide button. But if the manufacturer is sizing them correctly and replacing them frequently, this process produces good quality barrels that the masses can afford.
My build is on hold not because of me but the guy I use for builds broke his wrist in an atv accident and is now out for a few weeks and will not be back to building for that time. So my build is on hold right now but will get it out and share my results when I do.
Time to learn how to build an AR yourself. They're easy to assemble. I learned how to do it from a few websites and YouTube videos. And it's a little more satisfaction when it's all said and done.
And, if you decide to make changes, you're not at the mercy of someone else's schedule.
So, buy the assembly tools and get to work... get the stuff ordered today, and you'll be on the range by next weekend.
I actually have built my own but for this build I wanted the receiver and handguard cerakoted with a camo pattern. Plus I have my own business that I work 7 am to 8 pm most days and currently working 6-7 days a week. This guy is very good and I trust him and his abilities.
It's going to depend on the projo you loading. And, if you're looking for velocity, temp stability, low SD, or barrel life.
There's a lot of good powders you can use in the .224V.
Perfect world would be velocity and low SD. CFE 223 seems to provide the velocity in a couple calibers but it has a pretty high temp stability issue. I thjnk it’s 1.75fps per degree? Varget for instance is roughly .19 based on all the charts I’ve seen
That's what everyone is always chasing. But top velocity and low SD don't always produce the tightest groups. Throw into the mix having to reliably cycle a GG, keeping copper and powder residue out of the bore and reciprocating parts, and it's not so simple.
AR Comp and MR-2000 seem to be the ticket for velocity, but not the best for temp stability. 8208 XBR might give good accuracy and keep the action clean, but velocity is a bit down. Varget and H4350 good choices for low SD and temp stability, but good luck finding any. And the list goes on. Always had good luck with Vihtavuori powders. There's never going to be one magic powder that does everything well. It's just a matter of experimentation to find what works best with the combination of hardware and reloading components you're using. And you might be surprised to find that what you read isn't the best combination.
One thing to keep in mind is that the pressure profiles between extruded and ball powder are very different. Extruded powders have a higher initial peak and the pressure falls off faster. Ball powders have lower peak pressures, but maintain pressure over a longer period of time. In a bolt gun, this is really inconsequential. But in a GG, this difference can have a dramatic effect on the gas port pressure and affect functioning of the action.
My thought has always been to pick either ball or extruded, setup the rifle to cycle reliably. And stick with whichever type you choose. Otherwise, every time you switch between ball and extruded, you're likely to have to use an AGB an play with buffer weights and gas settings.
H4895 is my go to, impossible to find these days though.
I love mine. Nothing special. 20 inch psa upper. Lower is completely milspec with the exception of a geissele ssa. Fortunately I haven't had any issues with accuracy or jams. Honestly my biggest issue is finding ammo. I don't reload so I'm at the mercy of the factory market which right now is mostly 60 grain stuff. 90gr smk hits tight groups at 860 yards for me
This is my final build
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