.224 valkyrie trainer?

[DunInOne]

Needing a trainer and was considering the valk because of the ballistic advantage over a standard .223. Considering the.223 ai but the valkyrie cartridge seems better designed and no ff. What’s the expected barrel life of the 224 valkyrie? And is it really better than the .223 ai?

 

[Subwrx300]

Couple of threads on barrel life this running in the Everyday Sniper section. For AR type rifles, (from my experience and research) range seems to be 2500-5000+. My first 224V gas gun barrel went to 2300 solidly at +-.75MOA, 300 more tossing occasional flyers here and there, and finally quit at 2800+ (turned into 4MOA almost overnight). BUT I ran hot, suppressed rounds for over 2000 of the 2800 rounds fired. Some estimates say suppressored gas guns can reduce barrel life by as much as 50% (which I tend to agree with).

On a bolt gun, I'd hazard a guess that barrel life would be much closer to 4000 min to 6000+ rounds. No gas port to erode, chamber/throat and barrel stay cleaner, so less crud to push through barrel each shot.

If you don't already have a trainer in 223 or 223AI, I think the 224V is a solid idea: cheap practice ammo from 75gr AmEagle is $10-13 a box (some getting 1/2 to 1MOA with this round), 88 ELDs can be purchased for .18-19 each for reloads and the other match loads are still around or under $1 per round. A 223 Wylde or 223Rem could be slightly cheaper to shoot but might be slightly more difficult to push to 800-1000yds.

My handloads (88ELDs @2750-2850) very closely match my 6.5CM drop/drift to about 700yds and, after that, I need to focus on much better wind calls. That makes 6.5CM feel significantly easier in same conditions.

So yes, a 224V bolt gun trainer can be a great tool: better performance than a 223, slightly better than 223AI and better barrel life than other larger case 22 Cal hot rods (22-250, 22 Creed, etc). I'm planning to build/buy one within the next few weeks for the reasons stated above and to compare bolt vs semiauto in this cartidge.

@reubenski beat me while I was typing; totally agree with him on brass and costs.

 

[DunInOne]

That’s encouraging to hear u think he barrellife would be decent enough to make it worth it (4-6k rounds is IMO definitely)... I love my 6 and 65 but they get expensive to shoot for practice. I’m sure there’s others that have gone this route is like to hear about it’s performance inside 1000y

 

[acudaowner]

well 224 is hardly cheap unless you get it on sale somewhere the 75 grain tmj bt rounds at a lot of places online are around 15 -18 dollars per 20 or some are charging 1.10 per round and it only goes up for the others bullets in 224 and the few places that had really decent pricing for the plinking round have had none in stock in over a month or more . I have no idea what the reloading costs are .

 

[Dthomas3523]

well 224 is hardly cheap unless you get it on sale somewhere the 75 grain tmj bt rounds at a lot of places online are around 15 -18 dollars per 20 or some are charging 1.10 per round and it only goes up for the others bullets in 224 and the few places that had really decent pricing for the plinking round have had none in stock in over a month or more . I have no idea what the reloading costs are .

These were just two out of literally 20+ sites that have ~$0.50/rnd ammo that’s fine for practice.

20 Round Box - 224 Valkyrie 75 Grain TMJ Federal American Eagle Ammo - AE224VLK1 | SGAmmo.com

200 round case of 224 Valkyrie 75 Grain TMJ Federal American Eagle Ammo for saleFactory SKU number: AE224VLK110 x 20 round boxes per caseAmerican Eagle rifle is quality ammunition loaded for pounding targets. It achieves performance that closely matches comparable Federal Premium loads for the...

www.sgammo.com

FEDERAL AMERICAN EAGLE 224 VALKYRIE RIFLE AMMO | Brownells

American Eagle® rifle ammunition offers consistent, accurate performance at a price that's perfect for high-volume shooting. The loads feature quality bullets, reloadable brass cases and dependable primers. FEATURES: Ideal for target practice Accu...

www.brownells.com

 

[Dthomas3523]

well 224 is hardly cheap unless you get it on sale somewhere the 75 grain tmj bt rounds at a lot of places online are around 15 -18 dollars per 20 or some are charging 1.10 per round and it only goes up for the others bullets in 224 and the few places that had really decent pricing for the plinking round have had none in stock in over a month or more . I have no idea what the reloading costs are .

$0.82/rnd for hornady 88gr. Research better before posting. Valkyrie is very cheap and very available.

Hornady 224 Valkyrie Ammunition Match 81534 88 Grain Hornady ELD Match Poly Tip 20 Rounds

Hornady 224 Valkyrie Ammunition Match 81534 88 Grain Hornady ELD Match Poly Tip 20 Rounds

www.outdoorlimited.com

 

[spife7980]

well 224 is hardly cheap unless you get it on sale somewhere the 75 grain tmj bt rounds at a lot of places online are around 15 -18 dollars per 20 or some are charging 1.10 per round and it only goes up for the others bullets in 224 and the few places that had really decent pricing for the plinking round have had none in stock in over a month or more . I have no idea what the reloading costs are .

https://ammoseek.com/ammo/224-valkyrie

 

[Lowlight]

I am super happy I went with a 224V Bolt gun,

I was doping it out this weekend and had in my PR Class, ran a quick video to show the feeding, not much else in terms of images or media.



At 100 yards it was sub 3/8th using Hornady factory 88s.

None of the reloader every talk about their time, only the money they don't spend, my time is valuable, and I can order ammo faster than making it. I travel too much to as week and being able to buy factory ammo on the shelf is a huge plus.

I call the guys in AK, ask them to grab me some ammo, done, and I sub 1/2" on my worst day.

How much is your TIME Worth ... add that into the price of your reloads.

Between 100 and 600 its super flat and is very similar to a 6.5CM in terms of dope, after 600 it starts to need wind as the smaller bullet slows down.

Ammo wise, it's super cheap, the 75gr American Eagle can be found for $8 a box even in Alaska I have found it on the shelf for no more than $11... it's literally 50 cents a round and my rifles puts it in one hole.

Light recoiling, great barrel life, cheap ammo, if you reload for it you can easily increase the performance by adding a few FPS.

 

[acudaowner]

yes i saw that a few other places are selling the 75 grain at or around 50 cents per round last night never happier to be wrong . nor to admit i was wrong , and hurry up and buy a bunch while I can . I also have been thinking of trying reloading and a bolt gun in 224 after watching that Gavin guy with his gas and bolt gun on you tube at 600 - 1000 yards and frank with his 2000 + yard all very cool to watch and a few others .

 

[Lowlight]

Butt butt, my Dasher.... LOL

Funny you hear George and Co laugh about it (Listen the Everyday Sniper Podcast, he pokes enough holes in the Dasher next week it will all be GT) and what the reality is, the round sucks to run, yes it's super accurate but at the same time you won't see me crawling under shit to find that one piece of lost brass.

There is a ton more than just straight reloading component costs to the equation. And not everyone needs to run something with such a short amount of barrel life.

I know Gilliland has over 5000 rounds through his 224V stuff, and when I asked JP Rifles for an old barrel they told me it was still shooting at 6k. How many Dasher barrels after 6k rounds if you want to be competitive ?

 

[Subwrx300]

Did you say you were getting 88's at 2800 out of a gas gun?

Yes 26" barrel with CFE. About 26.2gr will get you in the neighborhood of 2800 with 88s (in my barrel which seems slower than some).

My precision load is 2760 with 26.7gr H4350.

 

[Subwrx300]

I just shot a ladder of CFE under 88's in a 22" 22 Grendel. 28grs gave pressure signs at 2815.

Sounds about right. Add 4" of barrel and it would have been around 2900-2915. I tuned my gas and weighting system to keep extraction to a minimum (barely lock back) and extra weight to keep bolt from moving early. Helped but still at tagged edge of pressure. I couldn't/won't shoot that load in summer; only winter.

Practical limit with 88s in a 224V is 2750-2800 within pressure limits.

 

[cro789]

I\am running a 223 with Berger 80.5 with 24.4 Varget and getting 2827. So I don't think the 223 is all the way out as a trainer. This is an average of the group size. I have over 550 rounds in just a couple of weeks.

 

[Nik H]

These are all great points. I have thought about a trainer using the 224V. However, I labored with the economics. It is true that ammo is cheaper than my 6.5CM so I will save some there. I don't reload so the savings over 6.5CM factory ammo may not exceed $5-6. As @Lowlight points out, people forget about invested time for reloading and my time is worth quite a bit not to mention the capitalization of the reloading equipment. People fail to recognize that the savings achieved by reloading need to justify the investment on the equipment.

Also need to consider the break even time for the cost of the new rifle. A new stick is not cheap especially when you need optics as well. When I have run the numbers, it is far cheaper to re-barrel my AI then moving to a new rifle but the downside is that I don't get a new rifle....

Still on the fence as economics don't always win

 

[lash]

Did you say you were getting 88's at 2800 out of a gas gun?

I’m getting 2750 FPS out of my 22” gas gun with the factory Hornady 88g load. This puts the ballistics exactly the same as my relatively sedate 136g .260 load in my bolt. Exception being wind calls after 600 as mentioned by Frank above.

That said, I really like how the 75 tmj factory loads do in it also. There are a bunch of people that are solidly convinced that the 80g Hornady ELDM is the perfect fit for .224V in a gasser. They may be right.

 

[Lowlight]

Plus Nosler just announced the 77gr RDF rounds, I would bet you can push them pretty darn hard in a 224V.

The factory 88s, are just around 2750fps out of my 24" Bartlein, so that is pretty decent for not having to reload.

You drop the weight a bit and your speeds will definitely increase, the issue is, most of us are shooting factory ammo so you are not seeing guys Hot Rod the round much like they would for a PRS type event. Instead you have guys happy with the factory performance which in turn does not push that envelope as one might otherwise.

Heavier is not always the answer, (See 6mm) the speed balance to maintain the barrel is worth it in my opinion.

My only issue is the PRS Snobs who want to attack it without really experimenting with it first. They did the same thing with the 6.5CM, heck I remember when Tony and Rob (Original Team Hornady PR Shooters before the GAP Affiliation) came to Rifles Only with the very first 6.5CM ammo. I asked if it was a solution looking for a problem and even bet them on the tower and won with my 308 getting a first round hit (Home field advantage Frank) Look at it today, the calls of it being a FAD are gone. It's got merit if you open your eyes.

 

[aslrookie]

I’m getting 2750 FPS out of my 22” gas gun with the factory Hornady 88g load. This puts the ballistics exactly the same as my relatively sedate 136g .260 load in my bolt. Exception being wind calls after 600 as mentioned by Frank above.

That said, I really like how the 75 tmj factory loads do in it also. There are a bunch of people that are solidly convinced that the 80g Hornady ELDM is the perfect fit for .224V in a gasser. They may be right.

What barrel are you using? I have a 24" faxon barrel shooting suppressed and with factory 88's AB puts me at 2662fps for 4.1mils at 610 based on my impacts.

 

[Lowlight]

This is pretty close to my numbers, the barrel appeared to be speeding up a bit by the end of the day, but I only have about 60 rounds through it, maybe 80.

 

[lash]

What barrel are you using? I have a 24" faxon barrel shooting suppressed and with factory 88's AB puts me at 2662fps for 4.1mils at 610 based on my impacts.

Mine is a 22” Rock Creek 6.7 twist with +2 gas chambered by Craddock Precision. My results on target agree with this trajectory chart.

.224 Hornady 88gr Eldm Factory
G7 BC, 2750 fps

BC	Bullet Weight	Muzzle Velocity	Zero Range	Sight Height	LOS Angle
0.274 G7	88gr	2750	100	1.8 in	0°
Altitude	Pressure	Temp	RH	Wind Velocity	Wind Angle
35.0	29.95 Hg.	89.0 °F	65%	0.0	90°
Zero Altitude	Zero Pressure	Zero Temp	Zero RH	Max PBR Zero
0.0	29.95 Hg.	89.0 °F	0%	291

Bullet Trajectory

Range (yards)	Drop (in)	Drop (mrad)	Wind. (in)	Wind. (mrad)	Veloc. (fps)	Energy (ft-lbs)	Time (sec)
0	↓	-1.8	0.0	0.0	0.0	2750	1478	0.00
25		-0.9	-1.0	0.0	0.0	2710	1435	0.03
50		-0.3	-0.2	0.0	0.0	2670	1393	0.06
75		0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	2630	1352	0.08
100	⊕	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	2591	1312	0.11
125		-0.3	-0.1	0.0	0.0	2552	1273	0.14
150		-1.0	-0.2	0.0	0.0	2514	1234	0.17
175		-2.0	-0.3	0.0	0.0	2475	1197	0.20
200		-3.4	-0.5	0.0	0.0	2437	1161	0.23
223	↑	-5.0	-0.6	0.0	0.0	2403	1126	0.26
225		-5.1	-0.6	0.0	0.0	2400	1125	0.26
250		-7.2	-0.8	0.0	0.0	2362	1090	0.29
275		-9.7	-1.0	0.0	0.0	2325	1056	0.33
300		-12.6	-1.2	0.0	0.0	2289	1023	0.36
325		-15.9	-1.4	0.0	0.0	2253	991	0.39
350		-19.7	-1.6	0.0	0.0	2217	960	0.43
375		-23.9	-1.8	0.0	0.0	2181	929	0.46
400		-28.5	-2.0	0.0	0.0	2146	900	0.49
425		-33.6	-2.2	0.0	0.0	2111	871	0.53
450		-39.2	-2.4	0.0	0.0	2076	842	0.57
475		-45.3	-2.7	0.0	0.0	2042	815	0.60
500		-51.9	-2.9	0.0	0.0	2008	788	0.64
525		-59.1	-3.1	0.0	0.0	1974	762	0.68
550		-66.8	-3.4	0.0	0.0	1941	736	0.71
575		-75.1	-3.6	0.0	0.0	1908	711	0.75
600		-84.0	-3.9	0.0	0.0	1875	687	0.79
625		-93.5	-4.2	0.0	0.0	1842	663	0.83
650		-103.7	-4.4	0.0	0.0	1810	640	0.87
675		-114.5	-4.7	0.0	0.0	1778	617	0.92
700		-126.0	-5.0	0.0	0.0	1746	595	0.96
725		-138.2	-5.3	0.0	0.0	1714	574	1.00
750		-151.2	-5.6	0.0	0.0	1683	553	1.05
775		-164.9	-5.9	0.0	0.0	1651	533	1.09
800		-179.4	-6.2	0.0	0.0	1621	513	1.14
825		-194.8	-6.6	0.0	0.0	1590	494	1.18
850		-211.0	-6.9	0.0	0.0	1559	475	1.23
875		-228.1	-7.2	0.0	0.0	1529	457	1.28
900		-246.1	-7.6	0.0	0.0	1499	439	1.33
925		-265.1	-8.0	0.0	0.0	1470	422	1.38
950		-285.1	-8.3	0.0	0.0	1441	405	1.43
975		-306.2	-8.7	0.0	0.0	1411	389	1.48
1000		-328.3	-9.1	0.0	0.0	1383	374	1.54
Range	Drop	Drop	Wind.	Wind.	Veloc.	Energy	Tim

 

[SAMR]

224 Valk would make a great trainer, in my thinking. I've had the same thought for a rifle build. It's got great ballistics, especially with such a comfortable level of recoil. I'm not aware of 223AI in factory ammo loadings, maybe from a custom loader?