.22LR on a full size receiver

[knight_dive]

I'm about 2 weeks from buying a Savage MkII TR to use as a trainer, but I got to thinking, how hard would it be to build a .22LR on a regular M700 or savage 10 series receiver? I'm sure you would need a conversion for the mag box and a new bolt and barrel so it wouldn't be a very cheap way to go. Bolt travel would be ridiculous for a .22, but since you can use the same stocks and the same scope mounts, you would have the same cheek weld and scope height as your full size rifle in addition to the exact same manipulations. Does anyone make a conversion kit like that?
I know that there are remington 40X trainers out there, but I have never actually seen one and know very little about them except that the prices I've seen online for used rifles are pretty high. How similar are the 40X receivers to actual 700 receivers?

 

[savage110]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

You will spend more tryng to get your standard 700 action into shooting .22 then buying a 40x.

 

[HEMI_Driver]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

Somewhere on this forum is a thread regarding the project underway by Underground Skunkworks. They're putting together a couple of rimfire bolt guns. One is suppose to be able to drop into any R700 stock. I'm pretty sure they're promising sub MOA performance as well. It'll come at a price... but it will probably be the last rimfire trainer you'll ever need to buy.

 

[frog5215]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

A 40X IS a 700 short action.
In addition to the Underground Skunkworks effort, Stiller has been threatening a full sized .22 for a while. The drawback is repeater function, apparently. A friend had an actual 40X custom shop repeater that never worked right, despite a couple of returns.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: knight_dive</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm about 2 weeks from buying a Savage MkII TR to use as a trainer, but I got to thinking, how hard would it be to build a .22LR on a regular M700 or savage 10 series receiver? I'm sure you would need a conversion for the mag box and a new bolt and barrel so it wouldn't be a very cheap way to go. Bolt travel would be ridiculous for a .22, but since you can use the same stocks and the same scope mounts, you would have the same cheek weld and scope height as your full size rifle in addition to the exact same manipulations. Does anyone make a conversion kit like that?
I know that there are remington 40X trainers out there, but I have never actually seen one and know very little about them except that the prices I've seen online for used rifles are pretty high. How similar are the 40X receivers to actual 700 receivers? </div></div>

Knight_Dive: Take a look at this and let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1578671&nt=4&page=1

 

[MtGoat]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just gotta ask, what motivates folks to make a simple task harder?

Just what is it about the basic, conventional Savage MKII that makes it so unacceptably unacceptable?

A .22lr is a .22LR is a .22LR. What more does it need to be?

Not criticising the rifles in question, I just wonder why so many people feel it is imperative to reinvent the wheel to be something so much, much more than the wheel.

Greg </div></div>


Some people like 35" mud whompin tires on custom chromed wheels while others like Yugo wheels

Pat

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

I'm sorry. I deleted my post, but somehow it managed to get quoted before I could succeed at that.

I just think that if folks want a .22LR, there are a lot of good ones that make no pretense at being anything beyond that.

But it is also not my place to be critical of others who think differently.

I apologize.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

No reason, actually, and you might note that I already withdrew my comment and apologized for it.

There's clearly a market for what you make and a perfectly valid reason for that. I'm just a sorta meat and potatoes kinda guy, and I keep trying to make do with the store brands, etc....

Truth be told, if my means permitted it, I'd quickly and gladly embrace finer workmanship, etc. But such is not my lot.

I've always felt a bit of a personal mandate to champion the small guy and take a swing once in awhile in favor of simplicity and frugality. Sometimes that leads to confusion on my part.

Greg

 

[knight_dive]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Knight_Dive: Take a look at this and let me know if you have any questions.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1578671&nt=4&page=1 </div></div>

Thanks! It looks like the model 605 is exactly the kind of thing I'm looking for. On the other hand, if the model 323 is any indication, I'm a loooooooong way out from being able to afford one. The pics of the 323 look pretty awesome though, and I am very definitely interested in seeing the 605 as it develops. I'm going to have to start saving now I suppose, please add me to your update list if possible (I posted in the other thread to the same effect).

Greg, I actually very much appreciate your comments. Yours is one of the names I have learned to look for on the Hide as it is usually accompanied by good bits of advice and/or information. A quick look to the left will tell you that I post pretty rarely here, or on any of the boards I read largely because I have discovered that I learn more by reading and listening than by talking. The wealth of accumulated knowledge on this side is extraordinary. As to your questions, I suppose some of us feel the need to keep reinventing the wheel, because long before we get bored with what's already out there our minds have started projecting new ideas and random thoughts onto the world around us. I believe that is part of what makes (or at least used to make) America great is that we are (were) a nation with millions of tinkerers that are never completely satisfied with what's readily available for whatever reason. IIRC Vise-grips were invented by a rather anti-social farmer who wanted to be able to work without need for an assistant! We have the opportunity to screw around with things until they are just what we want, just what someone else wants, or a complete waste of time. I've got piles of those complete and/or incomplete wastes of time scattered throughout my history. On the other hand, we've also been blessed with millions of those "meat and potatoes" guys that keep on getting the job done through thick and thin, that keep us driving on when it seems that the tinkerers are just screwing up. I've tried to balance both aspects out in my life, but it mainly seems that I've simply sacrificed a lot of sleep to accomplish both. I spent several years in school learning engineering (never did finish the degree), but really it seems I learned a lot more playing around in my dad's shop or listening to my grandfather's stories than I ever did in classes. I also volunteered to build Rose Parade floats for several years. Most people don't realize there's well upwards of 10 tons of steel under all those flowers on a lot of the floats. Again I learned a lot more about structures and the how of getting things done there instead of class. It saddens me to see how many engineering students there are these days that have never cut parts on a mill, built anything from scratch, or done more than assemble a few pieces IKEA style, so I pray daily that we do not lose the desire to take things apart and "reinvent the wheel" before those skills stagnate. For the record, I still intend to buy the MKII, I merely posted this question as a sort of random musing that I hoped would become reality.

Sorry to make this such a long post, but this is one of those things I spend a lot of time pondering.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

That was a very pleasant post to read. Thank you.

I am actually a fan of reinventing the wheel; but mainly to be a different kind of wheel, with different principles, greater efficiency, and/or enhanced capabilities. Redesigning something to do something it already does just fine just sorta smacks of me-too-isms. To my mind, an invention needs to advance the art.

One of my favorite activities is the mental exercise. I try to develop a concept in detail, all within the mind.

For years, I have set myself a particular goal, which is to develop a concept for a rifle action.

Criteria:

No forging, casting, or milling, everything fabricated from stamped sheet metal. Welding, taps and dies allowed.

Barrel headspacing by means of a barrel nut-like method.

Compound barrel construction, ala vibration dampened vented sleeved tensioned concept.

Bolt engagement employing straight line operation, which can be operated manually; or semi, but with a principle that a: prevents adaptation to full auto, and b: prevents adaptation of magazines accommodating beyond the original design capacity. On the surface, this may appear counterintuitive, but it eliminates at least two objections that could result in bans by screwy lawmakers. For what most of us need, these capacities are sufficient.

The use of less exotic composite materials, like FRP and Neoprene, for stock furniture, buffers, elastic energy management, etc.

Simplicity, efficiency, redundancy are keywords.

Bolt carriers permit straight line actuation. Straight Line actuation permits operation via lever, pump, semi, and/or straight pull manual manipulation.

Pump manual cycling on a semi to initiate condition one with a semi is ambidextrous, and downward ejection eliminates the pummeling of the operator with hot brass. There could be no protrusions associated with an operating handle/knob.

Ball and roller locking concepts suggest other locking methods that could provide a more positive lockup without mandating a rotating bolt head.

These are just some of the notions that rebound within my mind periodically.

Greg

 

[knight_dive]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That was a very pleasant post to read. Thank you.

{snip}

These are just some of the notions that rebound within my mind periodically.

Greg </div></div>

I like it, sort of a hybridization of AK or Uzi receivers, H&K bolt lock up, Savage barrel mounting, and pump action rifles. Take the best features of each and toss the rest. I'm not sure how an 870 locks up exactly, but they manage to do without bolt lugs all together, so if you went with a pump action that might be something to consider. Tubular magazines are pretty simple ways to limit capacity, but unfortunately pointed bullets don't work out to well there, so perhaps a rotary system like revolvers?

My latest projects involved a portable, folding rifle stand to take out to the desert. The basic idea came from an internet posting on a woodworking site, but I thought I could significantly improve the folding/assembly mechanism. The prototype is fairly light and can hold 14 rifles or shotguns but its not really sturdy enough so I'll keep working on that and I have a further idea to improve the mechanism.

Sometimes reinventing the wheel just so that it looks a little different while rolling along will accidentally advance the art, even if only by inspiring and idea in someone else. Post-it notes were an accidental invention of sorts between a guy trying to create a new super glue and a guy who need a way to bookmark his bible! Or if you can simply increase efficiency you can make time and energy available to perform other tasks thereby boosting productivity. The car didn't really serve any function not already filled by horses, but it does the job much faster and (usually) doesn't leave little piles in the street. More often, especially with my own projects it really is just the application of random thought and a need to not sit still to the world around me, even if it all turns into just spinning my wheels.

Thanks for reading, and sorry to have sort of wandered off topic in my own thread!

Dave

 

[frog5215]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

870s have a single lug that locks into the barrel extension, on top.

 

[knight_dive]

Re: .22LR on a full size receiver

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frog5215</div><div class="ubbcode-body">870s have a single lug that locks into the barrel extension, on top. </div></div>

Ah hah. This makes more sense now. I'm gonna have to go take apart my 870 now and play with it. It was one of the few guns I hadn't gotten to tinkering with yet.

Thanks,
Dave