I had a 700 VLS tuned up by a local gunsmith who put a Hart 5 grove 10 twist and a Bushnell 6500 mil dot. My fireforming loads were lite and pushing 85g Sierra boattails. They shot inside 1 MOA @ 200, I was impressed. I tried 87vmax, 90 Siroccos, 95 SST, and 105amax with a variety of different powders. The 105 were all over the place and the 95 were not a whole lot better. The 90 shot really well as did the 87's. The load I settled on last year was 44.5g H414 pushing the 90 Siroccos. They shot inside 1/2 MOA @ 400 with this load off the bench. I plan on running them through a chrono this week, but am finding myself wondering if it's worth trying to improve a load that shoots pretty good already? Any advice, tips, or pointers would be appreciated.
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Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
I shoot a 243AI with a 1-10 twist barrel and a 80 grain berger varminter bullet. 3520FPS with Reloader 17 out of a 24" barrel. It's a TAC driver and it really likes the 90 Grain berger match bullets but nothing heavier. It doesn't like the 100-105 bullets. It's a excellent round out to 1000 yards. Great for coyotes!!lol
I shoot a 243AI with a 1-10 twist barrel and a 80 grain berger varminter bullet. 3520FPS with Reloader 17 out of a 24" barrel. It's a TAC driver and it really likes the 90 Grain berger match bullets but nothing heavier. It doesn't like the 100-105 bullets. It's a excellent round out to 1000 yards. Great for coyotes!!lol
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ballistically, no. </div></div>
You're right, there's no way an extra 250 fps can make any significant difference.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ballistically, no. </div></div>
You're right, there's no way an extra 250 fps can make any significant difference.
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
Is perhaps the most impressive round I have yet to be given the chans/challange to shoot steel against,
I had a 308 Win, needles due to less knowledge and skill and a bit of a balistic shortcoming, I was owned.
In conclusion, I would not mind a 243AI.
/Chris
Is perhaps the most impressive round I have yet to be given the chans/challange to shoot steel against,
I had a 308 Win, needles due to less knowledge and skill and a bit of a balistic shortcoming, I was owned.
In conclusion, I would not mind a 243AI.
/Chris
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
with a 1:10 it's probably going to be tough to snug up a group of 105 bullets but it's not surprising that it likes the 85s.
I know its a whole different can of worms but I'm "suppose" to be able to toss 105 Amax out of my 1:9 twist 243WSSM but it just wont do it. (as per the boxes recommendation of a 1:9 twist barrel) Tightest I've gotten is about 4" and yet the same 1:9 will snug the 75 Vmax to a consistent .4 moa and the 85 GameKings with no load developemnt to an easy sub 1 moa.
I'm no pro, but I'd say the AI will do you just fine, but the bullet choice compared to the twist rate is probably what's making it fling 'em...so to say.
Depending on the speed...you could be looking at 4-8 feet less drop using the AI vs standard .243 (I'm comparing 3100 to 3500fps with the 85 GameKings and all other data equal [100" difference] as well as 105 VLDs at 3100 and 3360 and all other data equal [50" difference])
with a 1:10 it's probably going to be tough to snug up a group of 105 bullets but it's not surprising that it likes the 85s.
I know its a whole different can of worms but I'm "suppose" to be able to toss 105 Amax out of my 1:9 twist 243WSSM but it just wont do it. (as per the boxes recommendation of a 1:9 twist barrel) Tightest I've gotten is about 4" and yet the same 1:9 will snug the 75 Vmax to a consistent .4 moa and the 85 GameKings with no load developemnt to an easy sub 1 moa.
I'm no pro, but I'd say the AI will do you just fine, but the bullet choice compared to the twist rate is probably what's making it fling 'em...so to say.
Depending on the speed...you could be looking at 4-8 feet less drop using the AI vs standard .243 (I'm comparing 3100 to 3500fps with the 85 GameKings and all other data equal [100" difference] as well as 105 VLDs at 3100 and 3360 and all other data equal [50" difference])
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
I would recommend a minimum 1-8" twist for stabilizing the 105 and heavier projectiles in the 243 AI. Fire forming for my 243 AI the 105 AMAX is getting 3011 fps and the formed case is getting 3258 with outstanding accuracy. All of my load development and testing has been with the 107 SMK, 105 VLD and a 115 VLD and the the top performer by far is the 105 AMAX.
I have never tried any of the lighter bullets with this cartridge so I can't provide any info on those.
I would recommend a minimum 1-8" twist for stabilizing the 105 and heavier projectiles in the 243 AI. Fire forming for my 243 AI the 105 AMAX is getting 3011 fps and the formed case is getting 3258 with outstanding accuracy. All of my load development and testing has been with the 107 SMK, 105 VLD and a 115 VLD and the the top performer by far is the 105 AMAX.
I have never tried any of the lighter bullets with this cartridge so I can't provide any info on those.
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
"Ballistically, no."
"You're right, there's no way an extra 250 fps can make any significant difference."
The .243 AI won't get 250 more at the same pressures and equal barrel lengths; Ackley himself didn't think much of it. The .308 family is too straight for much "improving".
"Ballistically, no."
"You're right, there's no way an extra 250 fps can make any significant difference."
The .243 AI won't get 250 more at the same pressures and equal barrel lengths; Ackley himself didn't think much of it. The .308 family is too straight for much "improving".
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
All according to what you want to do with it...250 fps at the muzzel can mean a lot at 1000 yds shooting targets...You are right about Ackley, but he also added that it would extend brass and throat life...
All according to what you want to do with it...250 fps at the muzzel can mean a lot at 1000 yds shooting targets...You are right about Ackley, but he also added that it would extend brass and throat life...
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
Another point worth consideration (and the reason why I've dropped the AI version for the 243 I'm building) is feed issues in magazine fed rifles.... seems the AI isn't quite as reliable as the regular 243WIN.
Just another item to consider, but may not be important to you.
RJ
Another point worth consideration (and the reason why I've dropped the AI version for the 243 I'm building) is feed issues in magazine fed rifles.... seems the AI isn't quite as reliable as the regular 243WIN.
Just another item to consider, but may not be important to you.
RJ
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
The .243 AI won't get 250 more at the same pressures and equal barrel lengths; Ackley himself didn't think much of it. The .308 family is too straight for much "improving".
I guess I'm confused by this statement? Do you mean pressure curve or peak pressure. The AI will get 250FPS more with the same pressure peak as the 243 if you use the right powder in the AI vs 4064 or something in the standard 243. The brass life is great (11 reloads and counting on my Lapua brass) I could push them harder than what I am. 243AI is a great improvement using the powders available today. 22-250AI and 338Kirby Allen, which resembles a Ackley, is also a great improvement. The case capacity and powder expansion in the AI cartridges give some good performance for long range. If you really want a screamer neck the 243 AI down to 22 caliber and build a Cheetah M4 and push a 55 grain bullet to 4000 + FPS. I had one but the barrel life is about 2000-3000 rounds.
The .243 AI won't get 250 more at the same pressures and equal barrel lengths; Ackley himself didn't think much of it. The .308 family is too straight for much "improving".
I guess I'm confused by this statement? Do you mean pressure curve or peak pressure. The AI will get 250FPS more with the same pressure peak as the 243 if you use the right powder in the AI vs 4064 or something in the standard 243. The brass life is great (11 reloads and counting on my Lapua brass) I could push them harder than what I am. 243AI is a great improvement using the powders available today. 22-250AI and 338Kirby Allen, which resembles a Ackley, is also a great improvement. The case capacity and powder expansion in the AI cartridges give some good performance for long range. If you really want a screamer neck the 243 AI down to 22 caliber and build a Cheetah M4 and push a 55 grain bullet to 4000 + FPS. I had one but the barrel life is about 2000-3000 rounds.
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
As feed issues go I can't really say, other than I do have a few rounds loaded and wanted to try them. My build is on a Savage and thou the throat wont allow a 3" loaded round the Mag will...I haven't cycled the rounds through more than 30 or 35 times, but haven't seen an issue other than 3 is all it will take with the shoulders blown out and function the way I expect it to..Things may be different with a fired case, but works like I would expect with a loaded one....Hope that is the worst to happen, I have my hunting 243 that's capable of target shooting, but is a pencil barrel and heats up to quickly..This one will be target only probably...to heavy to lug around and I have single shot followers in my target rifles. Like to keep as much the same from shot to shot as I can..Truth is I wasn't able to find just a whole lot on 243AI information anywhere...Most information I have found has came off Varmint hunting sites and are lighter pills than what I want to fling....
As feed issues go I can't really say, other than I do have a few rounds loaded and wanted to try them. My build is on a Savage and thou the throat wont allow a 3" loaded round the Mag will...I haven't cycled the rounds through more than 30 or 35 times, but haven't seen an issue other than 3 is all it will take with the shoulders blown out and function the way I expect it to..Things may be different with a fired case, but works like I would expect with a loaded one....Hope that is the worst to happen, I have my hunting 243 that's capable of target shooting, but is a pencil barrel and heats up to quickly..This one will be target only probably...to heavy to lug around and I have single shot followers in my target rifles. Like to keep as much the same from shot to shot as I can..Truth is I wasn't able to find just a whole lot on 243AI information anywhere...Most information I have found has came off Varmint hunting sites and are lighter pills than what I want to fling....
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
There have been no feeding issues with the AICS magazines I've been using for nearly 1,000 rounds. Both the five and ten round magazines feed without fail regardless how fast or slow you try to feed them.With a gain of 247 fps over the fire forming load and absolutely no signs of pressure I'll continue as is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The .243 AI won't get 250 more at the same pressures and equal barrel lengths; Ackley himself didn't think much of it.</div></div>
I believe if Parker Ackley would have had Reloder 22 and a 105 AMAX his opinion of the 243 Improved would be quite different from what you have read.
There have been no feeding issues with the AICS magazines I've been using for nearly 1,000 rounds. Both the five and ten round magazines feed without fail regardless how fast or slow you try to feed them.With a gain of 247 fps over the fire forming load and absolutely no signs of pressure I'll continue as is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The .243 AI won't get 250 more at the same pressures and equal barrel lengths; Ackley himself didn't think much of it.</div></div>
I believe if Parker Ackley would have had Reloder 22 and a 105 AMAX his opinion of the 243 Improved would be quite different from what you have read.
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
I haven't seen any feed issues at all with Remington repeator or the AICS Mags. I honestly can't see where the issue would be unless the OAL was touching the mag as it came up to chamber? That would be the draw back to the detachable mag but I can't say I have ever seen it or know anyone who has had the issue.
No saying it can't happen...just curious as to the root cause?
I haven't seen any feed issues at all with Remington repeator or the AICS Mags. I honestly can't see where the issue would be unless the OAL was touching the mag as it came up to chamber? That would be the draw back to the detachable mag but I can't say I have ever seen it or know anyone who has had the issue.
No saying it can't happen...just curious as to the root cause?
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
There have been claims of interference between the 40 degree shoulder and the geometry of the factory feed ramps but I've personally never experienced any of these issues in any improved cartridge.
You hear about it but usually not from those who actually have one.
There have been claims of interference between the 40 degree shoulder and the geometry of the factory feed ramps but I've personally never experienced any of these issues in any improved cartridge.
You hear about it but usually not from those who actually have one.
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
Some of you guys are way too sophisticated for me. I'm just a coonass in NC trying to rid my hunting land of coyotes while still being able to whack a deer if I wish. I've always considered a 243 a women or kids gun, but for the last couple years I haven't used anything thing else. When my smith told me a 6mm was what I needed, I wasn't sure to believe him. He showed me pics of red stag and elk he whacked with his 6mm, so I had some faith. I was just wondering from the experts if there was a better, more accurate load that they may have used on a similar barrel.
It's pretty much unanimous that a 10 twist won't turn a 105. I couldn't get better than 4" @ 100 no matter the load. mostly 6" or more.
Oh, I have run several hundred rounds of AI's @ 2.70" with "0" load failures.
Some of you guys are way too sophisticated for me. I'm just a coonass in NC trying to rid my hunting land of coyotes while still being able to whack a deer if I wish. I've always considered a 243 a women or kids gun, but for the last couple years I haven't used anything thing else. When my smith told me a 6mm was what I needed, I wasn't sure to believe him. He showed me pics of red stag and elk he whacked with his 6mm, so I had some faith. I was just wondering from the experts if there was a better, more accurate load that they may have used on a similar barrel.
It's pretty much unanimous that a 10 twist won't turn a 105. I couldn't get better than 4" @ 100 no matter the load. mostly 6" or more.
Oh, I have run several hundred rounds of AI's @ 2.70" with "0" load failures.
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
re feed issues. There are lots of comments but not much data. I was referring to the reported George Gardener quote on 6mmbr and information from one of my friends..
But I'd rather not find out for myself in the middle of a match..
...each to their own..
RJ
re feed issues. There are lots of comments but not much data. I was referring to the reported George Gardener quote on 6mmbr and information from one of my friends..
But I'd rather not find out for myself in the middle of a match..
...each to their own..
RJ
Re: 243 AI Is it worth the time?
i shoot a 243ai with 46.6 grains of 4831sc with a berger 115 at 3150fps in a 1 in 8 twist barrel 30inch long and it is a lazer at 600 yds and shoots very good at 1000yds .its hard to beat it i would say its worth the time.
i shoot a 243ai with 46.6 grains of 4831sc with a berger 115 at 3150fps in a 1 in 8 twist barrel 30inch long and it is a lazer at 600 yds and shoots very good at 1000yds .its hard to beat it i would say its worth the time.
