how would a 243 win preform as a 300 yard target gun ? what are some pros & cons on the 243 win ?
- Thread starter savagehunter44
- Start date
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
At that distance you are not even seeing the benefit of the two calibers. I personally would take the 308. Both of those calibers are capable of so much more than 300 yards, why the short limit on range?
At that distance you are not even seeing the benefit of the two calibers. I personally would take the 308. Both of those calibers are capable of so much more than 300 yards, why the short limit on range?
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
223...
223...
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
300 yards I would stick with .223 cheaper to shoot longer barrel life.
As posted above at only 300 yards neither the two you mentioned has to get out of bed for. I would go for the. 243 as it has more over the 308.
300 yards I would stick with .223 cheaper to shoot longer barrel life.
As posted above at only 300 yards neither the two you mentioned has to get out of bed for. I would go for the. 243 as it has more over the 308.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
"further distances and the 243 destroys a 308"
why is that, i dont know much about the 243. & "the short range" well its about as far as we can shoot around here at local range. and most of our coyot hunting could be at any range. but for deer and hogs i like to use my 30-06 past 300 yards. if i buy a 243 it will be a tikka varmint , maby a t3 lite. but for target the lite might not be a good idea.
"further distances and the 243 destroys a 308"
why is that, i dont know much about the 243. & "the short range" well its about as far as we can shoot around here at local range. and most of our coyot hunting could be at any range. but for deer and hogs i like to use my 30-06 past 300 yards. if i buy a 243 it will be a tikka varmint , maby a t3 lite. but for target the lite might not be a good idea.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson
LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"further distances and the 243 destroys a 308"
why is that, i dont know much about the 243. & "the short range" well its about as far as we can shoot around here at local range. and most of our coyot hunting could be at any range. but for deer and hogs i like to use my 30-06 past 300 yards. if i buy a 243 it will be a tikka varmint , maby a t3 lite. but for target the lite might not be a good idea. </div></div>
It destroys the .308 with almost half the wind and a third of the elevation adjustment. .243 with 115 DTACs is a tough combo to beat.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"further distances and the 243 destroys a 308"
why is that, i dont know much about the 243. & "the short range" well its about as far as we can shoot around here at local range. and most of our coyot hunting could be at any range. but for deer and hogs i like to use my 30-06 past 300 yards. if i buy a 243 it will be a tikka varmint , maby a t3 lite. but for target the lite might not be a good idea. </div></div>
It destroys the .308 with almost half the wind and a third of the elevation adjustment. .243 with 115 DTACs is a tough combo to beat.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
The 243 is flatter, faster, and works the wind a bit better. The 308 is still a formidable round to shoot, it just is a bit more tempermental in the wind. I grew up shooting the 308 and I am very familiar with it. Really that is the name of the game, being familiar with the gun you do shoot. I shot against a few 243's and I came out on top. Not because one is worse than the other or better, I just new my rifle a little better that the other guys and I read the wind a might better.
But, the 243 does work the wind a might better "in the right hands"!
The 243 is flatter, faster, and works the wind a bit better. The 308 is still a formidable round to shoot, it just is a bit more tempermental in the wind. I grew up shooting the 308 and I am very familiar with it. Really that is the name of the game, being familiar with the gun you do shoot. I shot against a few 243's and I came out on top. Not because one is worse than the other or better, I just new my rifle a little better that the other guys and I read the wind a might better.
But, the 243 does work the wind a might better "in the right hands"!
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
For 300y target shooting .223 would be cheaper/less recoil/longer barrel life.
Once you get out to 600y+ the .243 with a fast twist and heavy bullets (115 dtac) shoots flatter bucks the wind better and hits harder than the .308 and with less recoil. The trade off is less barrel life.
For 300y target shooting .223 would be cheaper/less recoil/longer barrel life.
Once you get out to 600y+ the .243 with a fast twist and heavy bullets (115 dtac) shoots flatter bucks the wind better and hits harder than the .308 and with less recoil. The trade off is less barrel life.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
I had a 243 sps varmit, and the throat went out at around 900 rounds, it was a tack driver, shot it at 1000 yard F-Class may have been reason barrel went out so fast. Rebarreled to a .308 and still a tack driver.
I did like the low recoil of the 243, but like the low recoil of the 6xc even better.
I had a 243 sps varmit, and the throat went out at around 900 rounds, it was a tack driver, shot it at 1000 yard F-Class may have been reason barrel went out so fast. Rebarreled to a .308 and still a tack driver.
I did like the low recoil of the 243, but like the low recoil of the 6xc even better.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
900 rounds? Yikes! What were you loading?
OFG
900 rounds? Yikes! What were you loading?
OFG
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
How fast you get those 185's out of a 308?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
How fast you get those 185's out of a 308?
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
How fast you get those 185's out of a 308?</div></div>
Not fast enough to beat a .243 with 115 DTACs....or a 105 AMAX in the wind. Close on the 105 but still a ways off the 115.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
How fast you get those 185's out of a 308?</div></div>
Not fast enough to beat a .243 with 115 DTACs....or a 105 AMAX in the wind. Close on the 105 but still a ways off the 115.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
243 + Remington Core Lock = Deadest Mushroom in the woods, done.
243 + Remington Core Lock = Deadest Mushroom in the woods, done.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
Oddly enough, I've been blasting away at 300 yards working up loads for 308 260 and 243. I can report with fresh first hand experience with all three.
At 300' all of these calibers perform dead nutz the same. I think that some strong windy conditions would have changed my answer however. I would expect the 260 and 243 would start to out perform the 308 as the wind conditions deteriorate. I've seen this from past experience, and the numbers show it as well.
Barrel life is different among the Three calibers.... as is recoil, optimum barrel length, factory ammo, reloading components blah blah blah. What is important to YOU?
300 yards is boring though, I only do it to develop loads. I guess I've drank the Hide's Kool-aid
Hope this helps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how would a 243 win preform as a 300 yard target gun ? what are some pros & cons on the 243 win ? </div></div>
Oddly enough, I've been blasting away at 300 yards working up loads for 308 260 and 243. I can report with fresh first hand experience with all three.
At 300' all of these calibers perform dead nutz the same. I think that some strong windy conditions would have changed my answer however. I would expect the 260 and 243 would start to out perform the 308 as the wind conditions deteriorate. I've seen this from past experience, and the numbers show it as well.
Barrel life is different among the Three calibers.... as is recoil, optimum barrel length, factory ammo, reloading components blah blah blah. What is important to YOU?
300 yards is boring though, I only do it to develop loads. I guess I've drank the Hide's Kool-aid
Hope this helps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: savagehunter44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how would a 243 win preform as a 300 yard target gun ? what are some pros & cons on the 243 win ? </div></div>
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
How fast you get those 185's out of a 308?</div></div>
Not fast enough to beat a .243 with 115 DTACs....or a 105 AMAX in the wind. Close on the 105 but still a ways off the 115. </div></div>
I agree. My 300 wsm is a better comparison. I was just going to run the numbers through JBM.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
How fast you get those 185's out of a 308?</div></div>
Not fast enough to beat a .243 with 115 DTACs....or a 105 AMAX in the wind. Close on the 105 but still a ways off the 115. </div></div>
I agree. My 300 wsm is a better comparison. I was just going to run the numbers through JBM.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
All things being equal, I'd take the .243 any day of the week. Faster, flatter and flies straighter. The .308 takes a bit more skill to shoot. Not that you don't need skill to shoot the .243 though. You still need to read the wind.
I personally went with a .308 and this was due to a conversation that I had with my builder when I had my first rifle built. I had a .308 action and asked about what calibers were available to me. For my purposes, the choices came down to two. The .243 and .308.
He told me that when he shot .243, his regimen was to replace the barrel every 800 rounds, because at that point, the loss in accuracy was coming due to the throat and rifling beginning to be shot out. With the .308, he said that I should be able to get about 5000 rounds out of the throat, at which point I should be able to just have the barrel set back and rechambered for another 5000 rounds of shooting.
I do think that the 5000 round estimate may have been a bit optimistic, but I'm at just over 3000 right now and it's still shooting in the .2s and .3s at 100 yards. We'll see.
I don't know what barrels you are running, but I like Kriegers. So that means about $500 for a new barrel. I know that the cost of the barrel is a drop in the bucket compared to ammunition costs, but still, I'd prefer not to incur any unnecessary costs.
Besides, I like to shoot F T/R, so .308 is it for me, for now anyway.
All things being equal, I'd take the .243 any day of the week. Faster, flatter and flies straighter. The .308 takes a bit more skill to shoot. Not that you don't need skill to shoot the .243 though. You still need to read the wind.
I personally went with a .308 and this was due to a conversation that I had with my builder when I had my first rifle built. I had a .308 action and asked about what calibers were available to me. For my purposes, the choices came down to two. The .243 and .308.
He told me that when he shot .243, his regimen was to replace the barrel every 800 rounds, because at that point, the loss in accuracy was coming due to the throat and rifling beginning to be shot out. With the .308, he said that I should be able to get about 5000 rounds out of the throat, at which point I should be able to just have the barrel set back and rechambered for another 5000 rounds of shooting.
I do think that the 5000 round estimate may have been a bit optimistic, but I'm at just over 3000 right now and it's still shooting in the .2s and .3s at 100 yards. We'll see.
I don't know what barrels you are running, but I like Kriegers. So that means about $500 for a new barrel. I know that the cost of the barrel is a drop in the bucket compared to ammunition costs, but still, I'd prefer not to incur any unnecessary costs.
Besides, I like to shoot F T/R, so .308 is it for me, for now anyway.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
I have a safe full of .308 and I just switched to .243 for competition.
At 300 I would not have switched. You won't see the advantages of the .243 and it will cost you on barrel life.
At long range the .243 smokes the .308. I run 107gr Sierras at 2910. I can push them considerably faster, but the last match had a 3K speed limit. That kills just about anything you can sanely throw from a .308.
I tried to make .308 work for a long time. I have shot it for decades all over the world. I finally had to come to grips with the fact it was handicapping me at anything over 500 yards.
I have a safe full of .308 and I just switched to .243 for competition.
At 300 I would not have switched. You won't see the advantages of the .243 and it will cost you on barrel life.
At long range the .243 smokes the .308. I run 107gr Sierras at 2910. I can push them considerably faster, but the last match had a 3K speed limit. That kills just about anything you can sanely throw from a .308.
I tried to make .308 work for a long time. I have shot it for decades all over the world. I finally had to come to grips with the fact it was handicapping me at anything over 500 yards.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
Run the numbers Bill.
It's not rocket science. Just ballistics.
If I launch a 178gr Hornady BTHP at 2715 fps (my accuracy load in my AE MkII) it arrives at 1000 yards at 875 fps and 303 fpe. On the same day my 107gr Sierra load at 2910 fps arrives at 1000 yards at 1431 fps with 487 fpe. That is going to hit just a little harder. Not to mention the fact that the 107 will have less than half the wind drift.
Why wouldn't you take the .243 for long range?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Larson</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> LR shooting.....a 185 grain bullet compared to a 107....????
`cmon boys.... I`ll take the 185 grainer....always......
bill larson </div></div>
Run the numbers Bill.
It's not rocket science. Just ballistics.
If I launch a 178gr Hornady BTHP at 2715 fps (my accuracy load in my AE MkII) it arrives at 1000 yards at 875 fps and 303 fpe. On the same day my 107gr Sierra load at 2910 fps arrives at 1000 yards at 1431 fps with 487 fpe. That is going to hit just a little harder. Not to mention the fact that the 107 will have less than half the wind drift.
Why wouldn't you take the .243 for long range?
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
i have both, the 243 is very nice to shoot and very low recoil, very accurate and just flat out fun, i killed 2 243 barrels around 2000 rounds each, the throat had gotten very deep very fast, on 4 of my 308 i have gotten a minimum of about 4000 plus on each, and on 2 i have 6000 and the other is 7200 the throat is long but just cant load to the lands and they still shoot extremly well. with that said i would do a 308 and when the barrel needs to be replaced and for some reason you dont love it go to a 243 or a 260, but a 308 shooting 175 to 190smk is hard to beat, and is very affective for shooting large boar using game king or something similar. i have also found load development for the 308 to be a ton easier than 243, the 308 will shoot almost anything well, cant say as much for a 243 its a little more sensative
i have both, the 243 is very nice to shoot and very low recoil, very accurate and just flat out fun, i killed 2 243 barrels around 2000 rounds each, the throat had gotten very deep very fast, on 4 of my 308 i have gotten a minimum of about 4000 plus on each, and on 2 i have 6000 and the other is 7200 the throat is long but just cant load to the lands and they still shoot extremly well. with that said i would do a 308 and when the barrel needs to be replaced and for some reason you dont love it go to a 243 or a 260, but a 308 shooting 175 to 190smk is hard to beat, and is very affective for shooting large boar using game king or something similar. i have also found load development for the 308 to be a ton easier than 243, the 308 will shoot almost anything well, cant say as much for a 243 its a little more sensative
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
I am running Litz's 175 Tactical OTM. At the muzzle I am right at 2728.2 fps. w/ 2892 fpe. @ 1,000 yrd I am at 1320 fps and my energy is @ 677 ft-lb.
Caliber: .308 Win
Load: Appl. Balistics 175 Tactical OTM
MV: 2728.2
G7 BC: 0.260
Twist: 1:10
Bullet Length: 1.268
SG: 2.47
Form Factor: 1.014
Software: Point Mass Ballistics Solver 2.0
@ 1,000 yrds:
Fps: 1,320
Ft-Lb: 677
-----------------------------
I ran what Lonewolf had using Point Mass Ballistic Solver 2.0
-----------------------------
Hornady 178 BTHP @ 1.35"
MV: 2715
G7 BC: 0.258
G7 Form Factor: 1.039
Twist: 1:10
SG: 2.09
Point Mass Ballistics Solver 2.0
At 1,000 yrds:
1302 fps
670 ft-lbs
------------------------------
107gr Sierra:
MV: 2910
G7 BC: 0.259
G7 Form Factor: 0.999
Twist: 1:8
SG: 1.69
Point Mass Ballistics Solver 2.0 @ 1,000 yrds:
Fps: 1,441
Ft-Lb: 494
Are you sure you didn't by chance make a mistake on the 178's data entry? The ft-lbs is awful low for a .308 @ a grand.
The .243 will get there first, no doubt about that. But the .308 will finish, off the game, what the .243 couldn't.
I am running Litz's 175 Tactical OTM. At the muzzle I am right at 2728.2 fps. w/ 2892 fpe. @ 1,000 yrd I am at 1320 fps and my energy is @ 677 ft-lb.
Caliber: .308 Win
Load: Appl. Balistics 175 Tactical OTM
MV: 2728.2
G7 BC: 0.260
Twist: 1:10
Bullet Length: 1.268
SG: 2.47
Form Factor: 1.014
Software: Point Mass Ballistics Solver 2.0
@ 1,000 yrds:
Fps: 1,320
Ft-Lb: 677
-----------------------------
I ran what Lonewolf had using Point Mass Ballistic Solver 2.0
-----------------------------
Hornady 178 BTHP @ 1.35"
MV: 2715
G7 BC: 0.258
G7 Form Factor: 1.039
Twist: 1:10
SG: 2.09
Point Mass Ballistics Solver 2.0
At 1,000 yrds:
1302 fps
670 ft-lbs
------------------------------
107gr Sierra:
MV: 2910
G7 BC: 0.259
G7 Form Factor: 0.999
Twist: 1:8
SG: 1.69
Point Mass Ballistics Solver 2.0 @ 1,000 yrds:
Fps: 1,441
Ft-Lb: 494
Are you sure you didn't by chance make a mistake on the 178's data entry? The ft-lbs is awful low for a .308 @ a grand.
The .243 will get there first, no doubt about that. But the .308 will finish, off the game, what the .243 couldn't.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life..
A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life..
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrawDad338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life.. </div></div>
You sure about that?
Barrel life yes, I'm sure.....but beats the wind better?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrawDad338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life.. </div></div>
You sure about that?
Barrel life yes, I'm sure.....but beats the wind better?
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
Seems like an awful close call to me. 115DTAC vs 142SMK ?
I haven't run my 243 in high wind. 260 worked great at Rifles Only in 35mph wind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrawDad338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life.. </div></div>
You sure about that?
Barrel life yes, I'm sure.....but beats the wind better? </div></div>
Seems like an awful close call to me. 115DTAC vs 142SMK ?
I haven't run my 243 in high wind. 260 worked great at Rifles Only in 35mph wind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrawDad338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life.. </div></div>
You sure about that?
Barrel life yes, I'm sure.....but beats the wind better? </div></div>
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrawDad338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life.. </div></div>
And a 338 is better then the .260!! What's the point? We all know there are better rounds out there but this is not a which is the best round of all time thread.
Again I don't see the point in wanting any of these 2 rounds for only 300 yards??
Stick to a .223 as it is cheaper then the .243 or .308 and will have better barrel life. The wind will have more effect on the bullet making you a better shooter in the end.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CrawDad338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A .260 Remington is better in the wind than a .243 with better barrel life.. </div></div>
And a 338 is better then the .260!! What's the point? We all know there are better rounds out there but this is not a which is the best round of all time thread.
Again I don't see the point in wanting any of these 2 rounds for only 300 yards??
Stick to a .223 as it is cheaper then the .243 or .308 and will have better barrel life. The wind will have more effect on the bullet making you a better shooter in the end.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_Surgeon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you sure you didn't by chance make a mistake on the 178's data entry? The ft-lbs is awful low for a .308 @ a grand.
The .243 will get there first, no doubt about that. But the .308 will finish, off the game, what the .243 couldn't. </div></div>
The numbers I posted are right out of Bulletflight. I have Point Mass on CD around here somewhere, but not loaded on the PC right now.
Also remember that I am running variable G1's not G7's. I am not 100% sold on using a single G7 value.
The basic gist of this is that for short range, the .243, .260, etc. doesn't offer enough advantage over a .308 to warrant the reduced barrel life.
At long range, the .243 is absolutely a better option than the .308. While you may be able to run a .308 hard and close the gap a little, I can run a .243 hard and open it back up.
I did a cursory comparison of .260 versus .243 when I selected .243 for my rifle. However the marginal difference was really less important to me than the local availability of components. All the local shops stock .243 components. I can pick up brass whenever I feel like and not have to pay shipping AND support a local business.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The_Surgeon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you sure you didn't by chance make a mistake on the 178's data entry? The ft-lbs is awful low for a .308 @ a grand.
The .243 will get there first, no doubt about that. But the .308 will finish, off the game, what the .243 couldn't. </div></div>
The numbers I posted are right out of Bulletflight. I have Point Mass on CD around here somewhere, but not loaded on the PC right now.
Also remember that I am running variable G1's not G7's. I am not 100% sold on using a single G7 value.
The basic gist of this is that for short range, the .243, .260, etc. doesn't offer enough advantage over a .308 to warrant the reduced barrel life.
At long range, the .243 is absolutely a better option than the .308. While you may be able to run a .308 hard and close the gap a little, I can run a .243 hard and open it back up.
I did a cursory comparison of .260 versus .243 when I selected .243 for my rifle. However the marginal difference was really less important to me than the local availability of components. All the local shops stock .243 components. I can pick up brass whenever I feel like and not have to pay shipping AND support a local business.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
For all you smart ballisticians out there answer this question for me.
With regards to the .243 vs. .308 FPE transferred into a soft target. One would have to take in account the sectional density for both rounds. Now I would imagine the smaller faster .243 will have a greater sectional density. While Lonewolf's ballistic calculator says his .243 is delivering more FPE onto target sectional density would say his round is passing through his target and not delivering as much kinetic energy as the slower heavier .308 round which bleeds all of its kinetic energy into the soft target. This would in fact equal knock down power correct?
So if this is true, while the .243 may have more FPE it's not able to actually deliver all of its energy into a target. So the .308 would still be a better killing round.
Now I could be way off in left field here. I won't deny I wondered that way before. However please correct me if I'm wrong.
For all you smart ballisticians out there answer this question for me.
With regards to the .243 vs. .308 FPE transferred into a soft target. One would have to take in account the sectional density for both rounds. Now I would imagine the smaller faster .243 will have a greater sectional density. While Lonewolf's ballistic calculator says his .243 is delivering more FPE onto target sectional density would say his round is passing through his target and not delivering as much kinetic energy as the slower heavier .308 round which bleeds all of its kinetic energy into the soft target. This would in fact equal knock down power correct?
So if this is true, while the .243 may have more FPE it's not able to actually deliver all of its energy into a target. So the .308 would still be a better killing round.
Now I could be way off in left field here. I won't deny I wondered that way before. However please correct me if I'm wrong.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
If you hit them in the vitals I don't think they will know the difference.
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac:
@3150fps which is easily doable in the .243
1000 y -238.7" -6.6mil 62.7" 1.7mil 1681.3fps 721.7ft-lbs
If you hit them in the vitals I don't think they will know the difference.
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac:
@3150fps which is easily doable in the .243
1000 y -238.7" -6.6mil 62.7" 1.7mil 1681.3fps 721.7ft-lbs
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
Then you would want to know the momentum a bullet has.
that is p=mv
Mas * Velocity = Momentum
Both KE and M are functions of mass*velocity, but they have different meanings or uses.
Momentum is how hard the bullet is going to hit. KE varies in relation to the mass hit hits.
The heavier bullet, yet slower, will impart more momentum on its target and be slower doing so.
Then you would want to know the momentum a bullet has.
that is p=mv
Mas * Velocity = Momentum
Both KE and M are functions of mass*velocity, but they have different meanings or uses.
Momentum is how hard the bullet is going to hit. KE varies in relation to the mass hit hits.
The heavier bullet, yet slower, will impart more momentum on its target and be slower doing so.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac: @3150fps which is easily doable in the .243</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Easily</span> doable?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac: @3150fps which is easily doable in the .243</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Easily</span> doable?
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
well,for game hunting i use my 30-06. yes it kills on both ends but i dont target shoot with it. next gun is going to be a tikka if i dont build something . i have a m24 style barrel 1 in 12,so it will have to be a 308 or 300 win mag. by the time i build a 700 police style rifle i can just buy a tikka varmint. i would have to find a 700 action finish the barrel , stock bla,bla,bla you know. 243 just seems like it would be so fun,easy to shoot and load for . guess a 223 is too
well,for game hunting i use my 30-06. yes it kills on both ends but i dont target shoot with it. next gun is going to be a tikka if i dont build something . i have a m24 style barrel 1 in 12,so it will have to be a 308 or 300 win mag. by the time i build a 700 police style rifle i can just buy a tikka varmint. i would have to find a 700 action finish the barrel , stock bla,bla,bla you know. 243 just seems like it would be so fun,easy to shoot and load for . guess a 223 is too
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
Either way you go, 308 or 243, you will be happy. The 308 is a bit less forgiving in the wind. But at 300 yrds you are not going to have a problem with either.
Either way you go, 308 or 243, you will be happy. The 308 is a bit less forgiving in the wind. But at 300 yrds you are not going to have a problem with either.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac: @3150fps which is easily doable in the .243</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Easily</span> doable?</div></div>
I'll correct myself and just say doable, but there are enough shooters finding the magical 3150fps that I know it isn't a myth.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac: @3150fps which is easily doable in the .243</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Easily</span> doable?</div></div>
I'll correct myself and just say doable, but there are enough shooters finding the magical 3150fps that I know it isn't a myth.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a safe full of .308 and I just switched to .243 for competition.
At 300 I would not have switched. You won't see the advantages of the .243 and it will cost you on barrel life.
At long range the .243 smokes the .308. I run 107gr Sierras at 2910. I can push them considerably faster, but the last match had a 3K speed limit. That kills just about anything you can sanely throw from a .308.
I tried to make .308 work for a long time. I have shot it for decades all over the world. I finally had to come to grips with the fact it was handicapping me at anything over 500 yards.</div></div>
LW, knowing what your work history is a little bit, would you use the 243 over the 308 for work? I realize completely different arena, but interested in your thoughts on what the right bounds for 243 over 308 are.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a safe full of .308 and I just switched to .243 for competition.
At 300 I would not have switched. You won't see the advantages of the .243 and it will cost you on barrel life.
At long range the .243 smokes the .308. I run 107gr Sierras at 2910. I can push them considerably faster, but the last match had a 3K speed limit. That kills just about anything you can sanely throw from a .308.
I tried to make .308 work for a long time. I have shot it for decades all over the world. I finally had to come to grips with the fact it was handicapping me at anything over 500 yards.</div></div>
LW, knowing what your work history is a little bit, would you use the 243 over the 308 for work? I realize completely different arena, but interested in your thoughts on what the right bounds for 243 over 308 are.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
LW, knowing what your work history is a little bit, would you use the 243 over the 308 for work? I realize completely different arena, but interested in your thoughts on what the right bounds for 243 over 308 are. </div></div>
If the world was only "open air" engagements, then I would have no problem. However I just don't know enough about the .243's ability to penetrate barriers (glass, sheet metal, etc) to be able to give it a resounding yes. I know that there are several agencies that use it. I just have not been able to speak with them to see what kind of testing they did prior to it's adoption.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Oddball-Six</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
LW, knowing what your work history is a little bit, would you use the 243 over the 308 for work? I realize completely different arena, but interested in your thoughts on what the right bounds for 243 over 308 are. </div></div>
If the world was only "open air" engagements, then I would have no problem. However I just don't know enough about the .243's ability to penetrate barriers (glass, sheet metal, etc) to be able to give it a resounding yes. I know that there are several agencies that use it. I just have not been able to speak with them to see what kind of testing they did prior to it's adoption.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac: @3150fps which is easily doable in the .243</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Easily</span> doable?</div></div>
I'll qualify this and say if it's a GAP reamer with a 27"+ barrel than yes, it's easily doable. I've had three different rifles in 243 from GAP and each one reached that velocity with RL-25 and no pressure. Also all three were used as comp guns.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RedGoat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And if we are going to talk 243 ballistics it needs to be done with the 115 dtac: @3150fps which is easily doable in the .243</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">Easily</span> doable?</div></div>
I'll qualify this and say if it's a GAP reamer with a 27"+ barrel than yes, it's easily doable. I've had three different rifles in 243 from GAP and each one reached that velocity with RL-25 and no pressure. Also all three were used as comp guns.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
I have not tried, but I got 3072 fps with a 107 and 41.5gr of H4350. I didn't clock them, but I ran up to 43.0gr without pressure signs with the 26" Kreiger on the AE MkII. I don't think 3150 would be too difficult. Of course the AE MkII and Winchester brass seems to be pretty pressure tolerant.
I have not tried, but I got 3072 fps with a 107 and 41.5gr of H4350. I didn't clock them, but I ran up to 43.0gr without pressure signs with the 26" Kreiger on the AE MkII. I don't think 3150 would be too difficult. Of course the AE MkII and Winchester brass seems to be pretty pressure tolerant.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
Shooting a Surgeon action with a Lilja 3 groove, 8 twist, PTG reamer, 28" barrel, with 43.5 of H4350, under 115 DTAC's, well over 3300 fps, Lapua cases. DO NOT use this load without working up to it. I cannot use this load in hot weather without popping primers.
A load of 43 grains of I4350 ( a little cooler powder ) under the DTAC's, seems to work almost as well, without being as hot. This load is almost 4MOA faster than the stock Corbin loads for sale. That is, the 100 yard zero requires 4 MOA less elevation. SO yes, I can say that velocity is doable at sea level to 3500 ft.
For comparison sake, it shoots flatter than a 190SMK Black hills 300 WM load at 1000.
Against a 308 at extended range, the time of flight FEELS like it is half the 308, but the ballistics calculator says only about 3/4 of the time of flight.
Shooting a Surgeon action with a Lilja 3 groove, 8 twist, PTG reamer, 28" barrel, with 43.5 of H4350, under 115 DTAC's, well over 3300 fps, Lapua cases. DO NOT use this load without working up to it. I cannot use this load in hot weather without popping primers.
A load of 43 grains of I4350 ( a little cooler powder ) under the DTAC's, seems to work almost as well, without being as hot. This load is almost 4MOA faster than the stock Corbin loads for sale. That is, the 100 yard zero requires 4 MOA less elevation. SO yes, I can say that velocity is doable at sea level to 3500 ft.
For comparison sake, it shoots flatter than a 190SMK Black hills 300 WM load at 1000.
Against a 308 at extended range, the time of flight FEELS like it is half the 308, but the ballistics calculator says only about 3/4 of the time of flight.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
i have heard some people say that a 1 in 12 would not be good for a 300 win mag , why? i would think as long as u shot 168 or 190 gr it would be ok . right ?
i have heard some people say that a 1 in 12 would not be good for a 300 win mag , why? i would think as long as u shot 168 or 190 gr it would be ok . right ?
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For 300 yards it's not worth it over a .308.
308 is cheap with long barrel life. 243, not so much.
Step it out to further distances and the 243 destroys a 308.
</div></div>
this is the answer....done
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For 300 yards it's not worth it over a .308.
308 is cheap with long barrel life. 243, not so much.
Step it out to further distances and the 243 destroys a 308.
</div></div>
this is the answer....done
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
If 300yrds was the max distance at my game, I would run a 243 with either a 75gr or 87gr V Max (for starters), Win Brass, H4350.
Load it mild or what the max the barrel will handle and likely your 308 will collect dust.
Nothing wrong with a 308 except it drops like a rock compared to the 243. In the hunting world it typically yields more hits, in the target world it means less "clicks".
If 300yrds was the max distance at my game, I would run a 243 with either a 75gr or 87gr V Max (for starters), Win Brass, H4350.
Load it mild or what the max the barrel will handle and likely your 308 will collect dust.
Nothing wrong with a 308 except it drops like a rock compared to the 243. In the hunting world it typically yields more hits, in the target world it means less "clicks".
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
really its up to the shooter on this one as there both going do do the job great.
the 243 has less recoil and is flater shooting.
the 308 is cheaper and easyer to find in all places.
but i found my self asking the same ? and went with another brother as in the 6.5 CM
really its up to the shooter on this one as there both going do do the job great.
the 243 has less recoil and is flater shooting.
the 308 is cheaper and easyer to find in all places.
but i found my self asking the same ? and went with another brother as in the 6.5 CM
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For 300 yards it's not worth it over a .308.
308 is cheap with long barrel life. 243, not so much.
Step it out to further distances and the 243 destroys a 308.
</div></div>
this is the answer....done </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: procovert45</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For 300 yards it's not worth it over a .308.
308 is cheap with long barrel life. 243, not so much.
Step it out to further distances and the 243 destroys a 308.
</div></div>
this is the answer....done </div></div>
+1
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.O.A.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but i found my self asking the same ? and went with another brother as in the 6.5 CM </div></div>
This seems to be the answer. The 6.5 CM is the best all around cartridge I think there is out there. It does it all......low recoil, flat, inexpensive factory match ammo, long barrel life.
.308 just doesn't make sense anymore.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.O.A.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
but i found my self asking the same ? and went with another brother as in the 6.5 CM </div></div>
This seems to be the answer. The 6.5 CM is the best all around cartridge I think there is out there. It does it all......low recoil, flat, inexpensive factory match ammo, long barrel life.
.308 just doesn't make sense anymore.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
You'll be asking yourself the same question until you get one of each. Both have their merits and limitations. At 300 yards, for paper punching, my vote is 6mm (.243, 6.5, etc). Flatter and less recoil.
Depending on what you hunt and if you're confident enough to send it 300 yards for your game, the .308 carries more punching power and is more cooperative to bring game home.
Get one of each. Keep the one you like best for your particular application and sell the other, or be like many of us and just keep them both. Using one or the other for the particular use you might have at various different times.
You'll be asking yourself the same question until you get one of each. Both have their merits and limitations. At 300 yards, for paper punching, my vote is 6mm (.243, 6.5, etc). Flatter and less recoil.
Depending on what you hunt and if you're confident enough to send it 300 yards for your game, the .308 carries more punching power and is more cooperative to bring game home.
Get one of each. Keep the one you like best for your particular application and sell the other, or be like many of us and just keep them both. Using one or the other for the particular use you might have at various different times.
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
243
Ballistically superior, bucks wind better
Light recoiling, roughly 35% less than a 308
Great for varmints, not normally enough for bigger game animals
Barrel burner
308
Ammo is everywhere
Very forgiving on reloaders
Understood cartridge with lots of data
Still offers adequate long range performance
Seemingly infinite barrel life
Better for game animals
More affected by gravity and wind
243
Ballistically superior, bucks wind better
Light recoiling, roughly 35% less than a 308
Great for varmints, not normally enough for bigger game animals
Barrel burner
308
Ammo is everywhere
Very forgiving on reloaders
Understood cartridge with lots of data
Still offers adequate long range performance
Seemingly infinite barrel life
Better for game animals
More affected by gravity and wind
Re: 243 pros & cons over 308
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......If I launch a 178gr Hornady BTHP at 2715 fps (my accuracy load in my AE MkII) it arrives at 1000 yards at 875 fps and 303 fpe..... On the same day my 107gr Sierra load at 2910 fps arrives at 1000 yards at 1431 fps with 487 fpe.....</div></div>
That 178 AMax data looks wonky to me, at 1K, sea level, it should be around 1266 fps, 633 ft-lbs.
The numbers you show for the 178 look more like 1800yd ballistics.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">......If I launch a 178gr Hornady BTHP at 2715 fps (my accuracy load in my AE MkII) it arrives at 1000 yards at 875 fps and 303 fpe..... On the same day my 107gr Sierra load at 2910 fps arrives at 1000 yards at 1431 fps with 487 fpe.....</div></div>
That 178 AMax data looks wonky to me, at 1K, sea level, it should be around 1266 fps, 633 ft-lbs.
The numbers you show for the 178 look more like 1800yd ballistics.
