How about an accurate recipe for the 260 out to a 1000yds?
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
i prefer dos equis
i prefer dos equis
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Factory or custom barrel?
Twist rate?
What bullet do you have on hand or in mind?
142 SMK / 139 Scenar, 43 to 44 gr of H4350 (start 42 and work up to be safe), RP brass, and GM210M or CCI BR2s. 43.3gr seems to work quite well in my rifle.
Factory or custom barrel?
Twist rate?
What bullet do you have on hand or in mind?
142 SMK / 139 Scenar, 43 to 44 gr of H4350 (start 42 and work up to be safe), RP brass, and GM210M or CCI BR2s. 43.3gr seems to work quite well in my rifle.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
142BTHP Sierra, 41.5gr H4350 (DPMS 24")
142BTHP Sierra, 41.5gr H4350 (DPMS 24")
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Mine is a 28" 1:8" LW50 Stainless, with necked up Win .243 Brass, Fed210GMM primer, 142SMK at 2.890" OAL and 43.8-43.9gr of H4350, running at a conservative 2850fps. Accuracy is roughly 17 out of 20 into 10" at 1000yd, winds cooperating. My winds skills still suck...
When I drink beer, I also prefer Dos Eqis, and once had an awkward moment, just to see what it was like. It was at Bodines...; and since then I have come to enjoy repeating it. Apparently...
Greg
Mine is a 28" 1:8" LW50 Stainless, with necked up Win .243 Brass, Fed210GMM primer, 142SMK at 2.890" OAL and 43.8-43.9gr of H4350, running at a conservative 2850fps. Accuracy is roughly 17 out of 20 into 10" at 1000yd, winds cooperating. My winds skills still suck...
When I drink beer, I also prefer Dos Eqis, and once had an awkward moment, just to see what it was like. It was at Bodines...; and since then I have come to enjoy repeating it. Apparently...
Greg
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
26" 8 twist stainless, using rem brass, cci br2's, H4350. Have been shootin the 140 smk's just seems like the heavier bullet would be better. I have a couple of boxes of the 142 smk's I haven't tried yet, just been workin a load up with the 140's. I am all ears for your .02
26" 8 twist stainless, using rem brass, cci br2's, H4350. Have been shootin the 140 smk's just seems like the heavier bullet would be better. I have a couple of boxes of the 142 smk's I haven't tried yet, just been workin a load up with the 140's. I am all ears for your .02
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
The 142 is better. Use my load and adjust if needed, mine also works fine in the factory Savage 24" 1:8" barrel. Snug bore or chamber might require adjustment downward. Rem brass and CCI BR-2's should not require significant charge adjustment. When Scotty made up our load, I believe he adjusted OAL so the bullets would park into the rifling when chambered.
Greg
The 142 is better. Use my load and adjust if needed, mine also works fine in the factory Savage 24" 1:8" barrel. Snug bore or chamber might require adjustment downward. Rem brass and CCI BR-2's should not require significant charge adjustment. When Scotty made up our load, I believe he adjusted OAL so the bullets would park into the rifling when chambered.
Greg
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
I'll get some loaded up and give them 142's a shot. Thanks for the info, Greg.
I'll get some loaded up and give them 142's a shot. Thanks for the info, Greg.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
I used 4831sc powder. STill doing a load workup..Maganged to hit the 3000 mark with 142 smk's out of a 24" barrel and still under Hodgen's max recommended load. Backed about a grain cause I started to see crushed primers. It'll get ya a 1000........
I used 4831sc powder. STill doing a load workup..Maganged to hit the 3000 mark with 142 smk's out of a 24" barrel and still under Hodgen's max recommended load. Backed about a grain cause I started to see crushed primers. It'll get ya a 1000........
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Here is this mornin's 5 shot group with the 142smk's 43.8 H4350 2.84 OAL. If someone can troubleshoot I am all ears.
And here is two seperate 5 shot groups with 140smk's 41.5 H4350 2.78 OAL
Here is this mornin's 5 shot group with the 142smk's 43.8 H4350 2.84 OAL. If someone can troubleshoot I am all ears.
And here is two seperate 5 shot groups with 140smk's 41.5 H4350 2.78 OAL
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
not an expert, but I would guess you need to work on bullet seating depth. I am sure some others with more experience will chime in.
Looks like it is trying to group in the second photo.
not an expert, but I would guess you need to work on bullet seating depth. I am sure some others with more experience will chime in.
Looks like it is trying to group in the second photo.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
The vertical is very good, but you knew that. It's difficult to say what's causing the horizontal stringing.
Could be the load/barrel harmonics, might be the shooter with trigger finger placement (unless finger/trigger contact is consistent, horizontal can result).
Assuming you went straight to the one load, there is the absence of ladder test results, which could tell whether the horizontal occurs only at the one load, with all, or only some.
There is the harmonics issue. The load I specified works with 24" and 28" barrels, and that's a coincidence. Harmonics theory would seem to dictate that other lengths might like slightly different loads.
It would have been a very nice slam dunk if my load had worked in your rifle, but this may not be the case. Assuming pressure signs are OK, I'd say you have data to allow ladder testing, and that's what I'd recommend. Hodgdon lists 44.5gr of H4350 as the max for the 142SMK, and I'd respect that. Try ladder testing between 42.0 and 44.5gr, and only shoot the higher increments if the just-lower increments show OK pressure. I'm thinking .4gr increments should be adequate to identify (a) potential node(s).
Taking this critique to the next level, I'll explain a little about the diagnostics methods I use. I look for what's consistent and what isn't. Generally, what's consistent points to the shooter, and what isn't points to load variances.
So what's not consistent? the vertical is different. Generally, nearly nonexistent vertical is the sign of a good load. At least the load isn't producing vertical dispersion, and that's a big plus, especially at the really longer distances. The proof of this is in the distance shooting, and we're not there yet, but things are looking good so far.
So what is consistent? Both targets exhibit roughly the same amount of horizontal. It's a clue, but it's not a clear one.
Horizontal is harder to diagnose, because there are more things that can do this. Up close, wind is less of a culprit. That leaves the shooter and the barrel. Purely horizontal stringing due to harmonics is entirely possible, but becomes less likely when it remains despite significant load charge weight differences.
This leaves the shooter. So, how might the shooter be making this contribution?
As alluded earlier, the part of the finger that contacts the trigger can have considerable effect, enough so to cause what we see. Strive to pick and maintain a consistent contact area on the trigger for every shot.
Another possible cause is cheek weld. This should not be an issue of parallax is properly corrected by the optics, but this is also one of the least understood and most common issues. If moving your head up/down/side to side causes the crosshair and target to shift position relative to each other, parallax is present, and POI dispersion is equivalent to crosshair displacement. In other words, the bullet always goes the same place (within the limits of the rifle's true accuracy) relative to the bore axis, but when parallax is present, the crosshair does not always point to the same spot. Not the best way to shoot small.
If you can't adjust parallax, you can still center the eye behind the lens and negate its effect. As you move the eye up/down/side to side, you will reach limits that are defined by shadowing at the edge of the image. Find the edges, center the eye, and now you have a cheekweld that should work. If this position does not occur with the cheek and stock in contact, you will need to build up the stock until it does. Your accuracy will be directly dependent of your ability to find and maintain your cheekweld for every shot.
Greg
The vertical is very good, but you knew that. It's difficult to say what's causing the horizontal stringing.
Could be the load/barrel harmonics, might be the shooter with trigger finger placement (unless finger/trigger contact is consistent, horizontal can result).
Assuming you went straight to the one load, there is the absence of ladder test results, which could tell whether the horizontal occurs only at the one load, with all, or only some.
There is the harmonics issue. The load I specified works with 24" and 28" barrels, and that's a coincidence. Harmonics theory would seem to dictate that other lengths might like slightly different loads.
It would have been a very nice slam dunk if my load had worked in your rifle, but this may not be the case. Assuming pressure signs are OK, I'd say you have data to allow ladder testing, and that's what I'd recommend. Hodgdon lists 44.5gr of H4350 as the max for the 142SMK, and I'd respect that. Try ladder testing between 42.0 and 44.5gr, and only shoot the higher increments if the just-lower increments show OK pressure. I'm thinking .4gr increments should be adequate to identify (a) potential node(s).
Taking this critique to the next level, I'll explain a little about the diagnostics methods I use. I look for what's consistent and what isn't. Generally, what's consistent points to the shooter, and what isn't points to load variances.
So what's not consistent? the vertical is different. Generally, nearly nonexistent vertical is the sign of a good load. At least the load isn't producing vertical dispersion, and that's a big plus, especially at the really longer distances. The proof of this is in the distance shooting, and we're not there yet, but things are looking good so far.
So what is consistent? Both targets exhibit roughly the same amount of horizontal. It's a clue, but it's not a clear one.
Horizontal is harder to diagnose, because there are more things that can do this. Up close, wind is less of a culprit. That leaves the shooter and the barrel. Purely horizontal stringing due to harmonics is entirely possible, but becomes less likely when it remains despite significant load charge weight differences.
This leaves the shooter. So, how might the shooter be making this contribution?
As alluded earlier, the part of the finger that contacts the trigger can have considerable effect, enough so to cause what we see. Strive to pick and maintain a consistent contact area on the trigger for every shot.
Another possible cause is cheek weld. This should not be an issue of parallax is properly corrected by the optics, but this is also one of the least understood and most common issues. If moving your head up/down/side to side causes the crosshair and target to shift position relative to each other, parallax is present, and POI dispersion is equivalent to crosshair displacement. In other words, the bullet always goes the same place (within the limits of the rifle's true accuracy) relative to the bore axis, but when parallax is present, the crosshair does not always point to the same spot. Not the best way to shoot small.
If you can't adjust parallax, you can still center the eye behind the lens and negate its effect. As you move the eye up/down/side to side, you will reach limits that are defined by shadowing at the edge of the image. Find the edges, center the eye, and now you have a cheekweld that should work. If this position does not occur with the cheek and stock in contact, you will need to build up the stock until it does. Your accuracy will be directly dependent of your ability to find and maintain your cheekweld for every shot.
Greg
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Great info, Greg. I will put it into action the trip out. Thanks
Great info, Greg. I will put it into action the trip out. Thanks
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Greg brings up some good points. If it was me I would go with the 43.8 load with the 2.84 oal an play with it somemore. Horzontal is usually caused by two things trigger control or shooting tech an wind.
If no wind is present then you need to work on your trigger control or shooting tech. Another thing is you need to reshoot the load seveal times to see if it stays the same or changes after each testing session.
I am going through the same thing with a new 260 rebarrel. It has drove me nuts!! It has been inconistant to say the least an very picky on loads it likes.
I have finally settled on a load with Varget that looks like it will shoot for me. The one other thing is I don't shoot much at 100yds anymore an when I try to do load work its hard to say if its me or the load. There are some days I can drive them home an the next day I can not shoot a good group to save my ass.
I fianlly just went back to 400 an 600yds to do my load testing. I shoot three shot groups an if they stay in the .5moa range @ 400 to 600 they will shoot good to 1000yds if I do my part an thats good enough for what I do. Good luck in your quest!!
Greg brings up some good points. If it was me I would go with the 43.8 load with the 2.84 oal an play with it somemore. Horzontal is usually caused by two things trigger control or shooting tech an wind.
If no wind is present then you need to work on your trigger control or shooting tech. Another thing is you need to reshoot the load seveal times to see if it stays the same or changes after each testing session.
I am going through the same thing with a new 260 rebarrel. It has drove me nuts!! It has been inconistant to say the least an very picky on loads it likes.
I have finally settled on a load with Varget that looks like it will shoot for me. The one other thing is I don't shoot much at 100yds anymore an when I try to do load work its hard to say if its me or the load. There are some days I can drive them home an the next day I can not shoot a good group to save my ass.
I fianlly just went back to 400 an 600yds to do my load testing. I shoot three shot groups an if they stay in the .5moa range @ 400 to 600 they will shoot good to 1000yds if I do my part an thats good enough for what I do. Good luck in your quest!!
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
shot all day yesterday at two different steel targets using a 20 inch barrel. One target was at 1071 yards and the other at 1080 yards (different cosines / vectors / cross winds).
142 gr SMK's using virgin Nosler 260 brass and 43 grains of Reloader 17. If I wasn't banging the 10"x14" steel target itself, I sure was scaring the heck out of it (i.e. - "missing by a very slim margin")!
next time I'm loading up some 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's and see how they hold out on those longer shots.
shot all day yesterday at two different steel targets using a 20 inch barrel. One target was at 1071 yards and the other at 1080 yards (different cosines / vectors / cross winds).
142 gr SMK's using virgin Nosler 260 brass and 43 grains of Reloader 17. If I wasn't banging the 10"x14" steel target itself, I sure was scaring the heck out of it (i.e. - "missing by a very slim margin")!
next time I'm loading up some 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's and see how they hold out on those longer shots.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Ranger...You didn't tell us what velocity you were getting.
Steve
Ranger...You didn't tell us what velocity you were getting.
Steve
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ranger...You didn't tell us what velocity you were getting.
Steve </div></div>
It's scary! until I get the rest of the data in (elevation, temp, humidity, pressure, shooting angle) my data thus far is indicating 2800 fps!
I don't believe it myself thus I'm waiting on more data to show me what REALLY happened!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ranger...You didn't tell us what velocity you were getting.
Steve </div></div>
It's scary! until I get the rest of the data in (elevation, temp, humidity, pressure, shooting angle) my data thus far is indicating 2800 fps!
I don't believe it myself thus I'm waiting on more data to show me what REALLY happened!
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">next time I'm loading up some 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's and see how they hold out on those longer shots.
</div></div>
6.5mm 155SMK's?
Wazzat?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">next time I'm loading up some 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's and see how they hold out on those longer shots.
</div></div>
6.5mm 155SMK's?
Wazzat?
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shot all day yesterday at two different steel targets using a 20 inch barrel. One target was at 1071 yards and the other at 1080 yards (different cosines / vectors / cross winds).
142 gr SMK's using virgin Nosler 260 brass and 43 grains of Reloader 17. If I wasn't banging the 10"x14" steel target itself, I sure was scaring the heck out of it (i.e. - "missing by a very slim margin")!
next time I'm loading up some 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's and see how they hold out on those longer shots.
</div></div>
Ranger,
Are you sure you're not thinking of 155's in .30 cal?
Huey66,
A load I helped a friend work up was 43.5 gr. of H4350X using Berger 140 gr. VLD's. He too had Lapua Brass necked up. Neither one of us really are head over heels about Remington brass. I've had enough luck and seen others do well with Nosler brass as well, to recommend it. Norma brass is good but soft. So, if you're getting into really high pressures you are going to loosen up the primer pockets.
I will agree that if wind isn't an issue side to side groups often are trigger puller issues. However, it can be harmonics of the barrel. A lot of times it goes somewhat more diagonally. I've seen this in sporter weight and especially in featherweight barrels. I've never been a fan of light barrels even when hunting. Shaving a pound or two off a barrel isn't going to mean much if you're not in shape to pack it. This gets exaggerated when the barrel isn't free floated.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ranger1183</div><div class="ubbcode-body">shot all day yesterday at two different steel targets using a 20 inch barrel. One target was at 1071 yards and the other at 1080 yards (different cosines / vectors / cross winds).
142 gr SMK's using virgin Nosler 260 brass and 43 grains of Reloader 17. If I wasn't banging the 10"x14" steel target itself, I sure was scaring the heck out of it (i.e. - "missing by a very slim margin")!
next time I'm loading up some 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's and see how they hold out on those longer shots.
</div></div>
Ranger,
Are you sure you're not thinking of 155's in .30 cal?
Huey66,
A load I helped a friend work up was 43.5 gr. of H4350X using Berger 140 gr. VLD's. He too had Lapua Brass necked up. Neither one of us really are head over heels about Remington brass. I've had enough luck and seen others do well with Nosler brass as well, to recommend it. Norma brass is good but soft. So, if you're getting into really high pressures you are going to loosen up the primer pockets.
I will agree that if wind isn't an issue side to side groups often are trigger puller issues. However, it can be harmonics of the barrel. A lot of times it goes somewhat more diagonally. I've seen this in sporter weight and especially in featherweight barrels. I've never been a fan of light barrels even when hunting. Shaving a pound or two off a barrel isn't going to mean much if you're not in shape to pack it. This gets exaggerated when the barrel isn't free floated.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Ah, youngsters! Sometimes us old guys just have to "school" you "kids" once in a while ....
the 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's were discontinued several years ago. Why? because VLD type profiles were all the rage. The 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's are NOT a VLD type bullet like the 142 grain SMK's, but boy are they good fliers and VERY STABLE!
Think about that need for stability when the bullet slows down and transitions from supersonic to subsonic. Having a big steady bullet can be very handy compared to a smaller, more sleek and agile bullet.
Think about it this way, if you just HAD to fly through a hurricane (couldn't avoid it in any way), would you rather fly through on a sleek glider that rides on wind currents? Or would you rather fly through in a big ole B-52 that is heavy as heck?
I'll take an aisle seat in the B-52, thank you very much!
Also, did you see where the U.S. Navy just picked the .30 cal 220 grain SMk's over the "more finiky" 210 grain VLD's? Why? Because the less sleak 220's were more consistant in a variety of situations than the 210 VLD's.
Back to the 6.5mm, 155 grain SMK's!
Here are the ballistic numbers and the link to get the entire Rifle Bullet listing.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Sierra Bullets Ballistic Coefficient Listing</span>
Stock number: 9570
Diameter (inches): .264
Weight (grains): 155
Bullet Type: Hollow Point Boat Tail Matchking
Sectional Density: .318
Ballistic Coefficients and Velocity Ranges:
.570 @ 2800 fps and above
.560 between 2000 and 2800 fps
.555 @ 2000 fps and below
http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/BallisticCoefficient-rifle.pdf
here is the navy report I was talking about:
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf
Ah, youngsters! Sometimes us old guys just have to "school" you "kids" once in a while ....
the 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's were discontinued several years ago. Why? because VLD type profiles were all the rage. The 6.5mm 155 grain SMK's are NOT a VLD type bullet like the 142 grain SMK's, but boy are they good fliers and VERY STABLE!
Think about that need for stability when the bullet slows down and transitions from supersonic to subsonic. Having a big steady bullet can be very handy compared to a smaller, more sleek and agile bullet.
Think about it this way, if you just HAD to fly through a hurricane (couldn't avoid it in any way), would you rather fly through on a sleek glider that rides on wind currents? Or would you rather fly through in a big ole B-52 that is heavy as heck?
I'll take an aisle seat in the B-52, thank you very much!
Also, did you see where the U.S. Navy just picked the .30 cal 220 grain SMk's over the "more finiky" 210 grain VLD's? Why? Because the less sleak 220's were more consistant in a variety of situations than the 210 VLD's.
Back to the 6.5mm, 155 grain SMK's!
Here are the ballistic numbers and the link to get the entire Rifle Bullet listing.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">Sierra Bullets Ballistic Coefficient Listing</span>
Stock number: 9570
Diameter (inches): .264
Weight (grains): 155
Bullet Type: Hollow Point Boat Tail Matchking
Sectional Density: .318
Ballistic Coefficients and Velocity Ranges:
.570 @ 2800 fps and above
.560 between 2000 and 2800 fps
.555 @ 2000 fps and below
http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/BallisticCoefficient-rifle.pdf
here is the navy report I was talking about:
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009infantrysmallarms/tuesdaysessioniii8524.pdf
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Thanks for the update. I learn something new every day, or at least I hope I do...
Thanks for the update. I learn something new every day, or at least I hope I do...
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Old Timers??!...You went to Ranger School AFTER I did!
But I gotta admit, I never remembered about the 155 SMK's because I never shot 6.5mm. I did know the Swedes loved their 156gr. bullets. I always shot 7mm. The real BC bullet. Anyhow, yes it's always best with the most stable bullet going through the transonic stage. That is, if the range you are shooting at exceeds that.
We were talking about this very same subject on another post, .338 vs. 300 WM, about how stability is preferred over maximum super-sonic speed range. And why, it seems to some of us, the better bullet never gets picked. I'll read the report and post back.
Old Timers??!...You went to Ranger School AFTER I did!
But I gotta admit, I never remembered about the 155 SMK's because I never shot 6.5mm. I did know the Swedes loved their 156gr. bullets. I always shot 7mm. The real BC bullet. Anyhow, yes it's always best with the most stable bullet going through the transonic stage. That is, if the range you are shooting at exceeds that.
We were talking about this very same subject on another post, .338 vs. 300 WM, about how stability is preferred over maximum super-sonic speed range. And why, it seems to some of us, the better bullet never gets picked. I'll read the report and post back.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Anyhow, I read the report and it seems that the comparison is 220 gr vs 210 gr. Sierra. The 210 gr. is their new bullet. I can tell you why Sierra's 210 gr. is less stable. Same reason as why the 95 gr. 6mm is unstable. They run the lead all the way out to the hollow-point tip. In a rough calculation of stability it's basically this V x .06 x D(2) /L. L is often broken down simplisticly to OAL of the bullet. It should be given a factor of CG (center of gravity) vs. OAL so you can determine what I call "length of the weight". The 6mm bullet I mentioned because it WILL NOT stabilize from any of my 1-10" twists going as fast as I can push it. Berger 95 gr. VLD's however, do. Even though they rate to take a 1-9" twist also. Berger doesn't run their lead all the way out to the tip of the bullet like Sierra. It has a shorter "length of weight" and therefore stabilizes better. Same thing with the Berger 210 vs. the NEW Sierra 210. The Berger stabilizes better.
The reason Berger didn't get selected for the contract, I would imagine, is that generally Berger isn't really a large volume manufacturer. At least not on the scale that Hornady, Federal, Sierra, and Speer are. They may be able to produce the bullets but at a high percentage use of their facilities. Therefore one glitch and they may lose a lot of production. I wish their designs would get looked at because I think they are better. But, it also may just be what it takes to make one of the quality needed to make that type bullet stable and accurate enough.
Anyhow, good luck with the 155's
Anyhow, I read the report and it seems that the comparison is 220 gr vs 210 gr. Sierra. The 210 gr. is their new bullet. I can tell you why Sierra's 210 gr. is less stable. Same reason as why the 95 gr. 6mm is unstable. They run the lead all the way out to the hollow-point tip. In a rough calculation of stability it's basically this V x .06 x D(2) /L. L is often broken down simplisticly to OAL of the bullet. It should be given a factor of CG (center of gravity) vs. OAL so you can determine what I call "length of the weight". The 6mm bullet I mentioned because it WILL NOT stabilize from any of my 1-10" twists going as fast as I can push it. Berger 95 gr. VLD's however, do. Even though they rate to take a 1-9" twist also. Berger doesn't run their lead all the way out to the tip of the bullet like Sierra. It has a shorter "length of weight" and therefore stabilizes better. Same thing with the Berger 210 vs. the NEW Sierra 210. The Berger stabilizes better.
The reason Berger didn't get selected for the contract, I would imagine, is that generally Berger isn't really a large volume manufacturer. At least not on the scale that Hornady, Federal, Sierra, and Speer are. They may be able to produce the bullets but at a high percentage use of their facilities. Therefore one glitch and they may lose a lot of production. I wish their designs would get looked at because I think they are better. But, it also may just be what it takes to make one of the quality needed to make that type bullet stable and accurate enough.
Anyhow, good luck with the 155's
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Shooters,
I've been tinkering with my new .260 and I'm very happy.
Load: Norma Brass- 42.5 Gr. H-4350 FGM210 primer 142 SMK running 2878 out of a 29" Krieger 8 twist (1.250 - .900) with brake.
Surgeon Short repeater- Terry Cross Combat Stock 100% bad ass- N/F 5.5-22x56 68 MOA to 1650 yards and YES it gets there with no problem.
260 out to 1000 yards no problem. Engaged targets to 1650 yards WITH accuracy (12" steel plates hits).
Having vast experience shooting extreme distance with CAPABLE rifles/chambers such as the Hulk I can't say enough about this little "pop" gun. I simply love it. I built it to shoot out to 1200 yards and quickly found it capable to reach out much further with great accuracy. As long as the wind is dialed in properly it will hit it's mark. I will have one of my guys shoot some video of it this upcoming weekend shooting it out to 1650 yards for the "na sayers". No editing I promise.
Anyone interested or curious about this little wonder round don't think twice. Just do it.
I will get some pictures posted of this beauty ASAP.
I must thank Mr. Terry Cross for helping me get this project accomplished in the time I did. Terry is a great business man and has always been top notch every time we've spoke. Very informative and VERY knowledgable(understatement) concerning our great shooting sport and what it takes to get the job done right. I can't say enough about his professionalism. And his stock fits me like OJ's glove.
Thanks Terry! The .338 Lapua is next!
Tom Sarver
TVP
Someone talk Terry into coming out to shoot with us....I'm working on him too!
Shooters,
I've been tinkering with my new .260 and I'm very happy.
Load: Norma Brass- 42.5 Gr. H-4350 FGM210 primer 142 SMK running 2878 out of a 29" Krieger 8 twist (1.250 - .900) with brake.
Surgeon Short repeater- Terry Cross Combat Stock 100% bad ass- N/F 5.5-22x56 68 MOA to 1650 yards and YES it gets there with no problem.
260 out to 1000 yards no problem. Engaged targets to 1650 yards WITH accuracy (12" steel plates hits).
Having vast experience shooting extreme distance with CAPABLE rifles/chambers such as the Hulk I can't say enough about this little "pop" gun. I simply love it. I built it to shoot out to 1200 yards and quickly found it capable to reach out much further with great accuracy. As long as the wind is dialed in properly it will hit it's mark. I will have one of my guys shoot some video of it this upcoming weekend shooting it out to 1650 yards for the "na sayers". No editing I promise.
Anyone interested or curious about this little wonder round don't think twice. Just do it.
I will get some pictures posted of this beauty ASAP.
I must thank Mr. Terry Cross for helping me get this project accomplished in the time I did. Terry is a great business man and has always been top notch every time we've spoke. Very informative and VERY knowledgable(understatement) concerning our great shooting sport and what it takes to get the job done right. I can't say enough about his professionalism. And his stock fits me like OJ's glove.
Thanks Terry! The .338 Lapua is next!
Tom Sarver
TVP
Someone talk Terry into coming out to shoot with us....I'm working on him too!
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Tried some more 142's this mornin. It's about 10 degrees warmer than last run. These are 5 shot groups @ 100yds. Don't know if I should bring that bullet back to before and punch some more with the 2.84 OAL vs. the 2.89 OAL?
Tried some more 142's this mornin. It's about 10 degrees warmer than last run. These are 5 shot groups @ 100yds. Don't know if I should bring that bullet back to before and punch some more with the 2.84 OAL vs. the 2.89 OAL?
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
hueys66,
A question here if I may. I know you stated the OAL but what are the rest of the details about the rifle? Is the barrel a custom or Remington? Round count. Is the action bedded or in an aluminum block? If the latter then it should be skim bedded just to solidify. How far into or off the lands are you? A suggestion too. The brass needs to go. Get some Lapua, neck it down then turn it. Good primers if I do say so myself. Also, what are the <span style="text-decoration: underline">best</span> groups you have gotten from this rifle?
It seems like you have four or five that all go to the same place then the group seems to blow up on you. In my experience, which is not trainer level, this often goes to parallax. You shoot one in right next to where you want it. The next goes up and right. No. Three goes right back with no. 1 and no. 4 goes one or the other. When they alternate like that then it's parallax. When they move in succession then it's stock bedding. Or worse, barrel issue. As noted flat across is indicative of trigger issues...or wind. Stringing vertical is a barrel issue. But sometimes can be traced back to parallax. If seen shooters just never get comfortable in the right place on their stock every time. Some had a high rollover comb custom stock put on then when they get older and heavier in the face (muscle, it's normal) they don't get back in the same place they always did. It's a strain for them to get there.
Anyways, some ideas I hope for you.
Think of everything you can. Sky color, OAT wind, (get a kestrel or wind device, it helps huge)
hueys66,
A question here if I may. I know you stated the OAL but what are the rest of the details about the rifle? Is the barrel a custom or Remington? Round count. Is the action bedded or in an aluminum block? If the latter then it should be skim bedded just to solidify. How far into or off the lands are you? A suggestion too. The brass needs to go. Get some Lapua, neck it down then turn it. Good primers if I do say so myself. Also, what are the <span style="text-decoration: underline">best</span> groups you have gotten from this rifle?
It seems like you have four or five that all go to the same place then the group seems to blow up on you. In my experience, which is not trainer level, this often goes to parallax. You shoot one in right next to where you want it. The next goes up and right. No. Three goes right back with no. 1 and no. 4 goes one or the other. When they alternate like that then it's parallax. When they move in succession then it's stock bedding. Or worse, barrel issue. As noted flat across is indicative of trigger issues...or wind. Stringing vertical is a barrel issue. But sometimes can be traced back to parallax. If seen shooters just never get comfortable in the right place on their stock every time. Some had a high rollover comb custom stock put on then when they get older and heavier in the face (muscle, it's normal) they don't get back in the same place they always did. It's a strain for them to get there.
Anyways, some ideas I hope for you.
Think of everything you can. Sky color, OAT wind, (get a kestrel or wind device, it helps huge)
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
sandwarrior- when you say skim bedding, what is the best approach to that? or anybody else.
sandwarrior- when you say skim bedding, what is the best approach to that? or anybody else.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Just a very very thin layer of epoxy in the aluminum bedding under the points of contact.
If you've ever bedded a rifle then mix a lot less than you normally would for a full rifle. Then take a q-tip and dab it into the points of contact areas. It needs to be a lot thinner than if bedding a wood stocked rifle. Same thing though, with when you put the rifle in the stock and having release agent on the rifle. Let it get a little past tacky before you set your stock in and use minimum torque.
If you haven't bedded a rifle I would suggest finding somone where you're at to give you the first time walk through.
Just a very very thin layer of epoxy in the aluminum bedding under the points of contact.
If you've ever bedded a rifle then mix a lot less than you normally would for a full rifle. Then take a q-tip and dab it into the points of contact areas. It needs to be a lot thinner than if bedding a wood stocked rifle. Same thing though, with when you put the rifle in the stock and having release agent on the rifle. Let it get a little past tacky before you set your stock in and use minimum torque.
If you haven't bedded a rifle I would suggest finding somone where you're at to give you the first time walk through.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
I sure hope it makes it there......
I sure hope it makes it there......
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I sure hope it makes it there......</div></div>
What do you mean??
Skim bedding an aluminum block is a normal practice. You're just filling the machining mark spaces. Unlike bedding a wood stock where you are making a short wall behind the recoil lug. You need to watch this closely as it cures faster because of the very thin layer. I'd highly recommend having someone go through this with you if you haven't done it before and aren't comfortable with it. Some of the bedding compound set up very hard and no amount of MEK or Toluol is going to soften up so you can peel it out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I sure hope it makes it there......</div></div>
What do you mean??
Skim bedding an aluminum block is a normal practice. You're just filling the machining mark spaces. Unlike bedding a wood stock where you are making a short wall behind the recoil lug. You need to watch this closely as it cures faster because of the very thin layer. I'd highly recommend having someone go through this with you if you haven't done it before and aren't comfortable with it. Some of the bedding compound set up very hard and no amount of MEK or Toluol is going to soften up so you can peel it out.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
as a bit of a joke.
The .308 will make it out to 1k yards. I am working on a lightweight .260 and all the info I have it should "easily" make it out to 1k yards.
as a bit of a joke.
The .308 will make it out to 1k yards. I am working on a lightweight .260 and all the info I have it should "easily" make it out to 1k yards.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as a bit of a joke.
The .308 will make it out to 1k yards. I am working on a lightweight .260 and all the info I have it should "easily" make it out to 1k yards.</div></div>
Copy...it is actually a very good 1k round. The 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor are good rounds as well. But, the shapes have been massaged to help them better fit into an AR<span style="color: #3366FF">-15{edit:}</span> with the bullets seated out further is all. You give up a little capacity that can be made up with slower powders and a longer barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">as a bit of a joke.
The .308 will make it out to 1k yards. I am working on a lightweight .260 and all the info I have it should "easily" make it out to 1k yards.</div></div>
Copy...it is actually a very good 1k round. The 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor are good rounds as well. But, the shapes have been massaged to help them better fit into an AR<span style="color: #3366FF">-15{edit:}</span> with the bullets seated out further is all. You give up a little capacity that can be made up with slower powders and a longer barrel.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Well here is the latest from the desert trips. Have my clicks dialed for every 50 yds out to 700. Then I jumped to 900 to give it a shot and here are the results. Would have thrown more at it but ran out of lead. Not sure if to skim bed it or just leave it alone.
Well here is the latest from the desert trips. Have my clicks dialed for every 50 yds out to 700. Then I jumped to 900 to give it a shot and here are the results. Would have thrown more at it but ran out of lead. Not sure if to skim bed it or just leave it alone.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hueys66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well here is the latest from the desert trips. Have my clicks dialed for every 50 yds out to 700. Then I jumped to 900 to give it a shot and here are the results. Would have thrown more at it but ran out of lead. Not sure if to skim bed it or just leave it alone.
</div></div>
i wouldnt touch it. getting that accuracy at 900 yards is something to be proud of
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hueys66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well here is the latest from the desert trips. Have my clicks dialed for every 50 yds out to 700. Then I jumped to 900 to give it a shot and here are the results. Would have thrown more at it but ran out of lead. Not sure if to skim bed it or just leave it alone.
i wouldnt touch it. getting that accuracy at 900 yards is something to be proud of
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Got to 1000 this mornin.
Got to 1000 this mornin.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
i use 142smk, nosler brass, fed amtch primer, 43gr h4350
i use 142smk, nosler brass, fed amtch primer, 43gr h4350
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Nice shooting there!
The .260 is quickly becoming my favorite. I've been putting a lot of rounds through my GAP .260's the past two months and have shot them both past 1200 meters with confidence. 139 scenars, 140gr VLD's and just starting to play with Hornady's 140gr AMAX. Have had good luck with the 123gr scenars also and the 130gr Swift SciroccoII.
Nice shooting there!
The .260 is quickly becoming my favorite. I've been putting a lot of rounds through my GAP .260's the past two months and have shot them both past 1200 meters with confidence. 139 scenars, 140gr VLD's and just starting to play with Hornady's 140gr AMAX. Have had good luck with the 123gr scenars also and the 130gr Swift SciroccoII.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Doug, A couple other Specialist's up here have tried them and had poor resusts with them not opening up. They shot well but just passed on through....coyotes.
Doug, A couple other Specialist's up here have tried them and had poor resusts with them not opening up. They shot well but just passed on through....coyotes.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
You're tempting me here guys...got a Remy SA in the safe that could work real well on a 260 build.
Been watching for comments on how lethal the 260 is on deer with good bullets and penetration on bad angles. The 243 is "okay" but has its limitations, am hoping the 260 is better due to the heavier bullets.
You're tempting me here guys...got a Remy SA in the safe that could work real well on a 260 build.
Been watching for comments on how lethal the 260 is on deer with good bullets and penetration on bad angles. The 243 is "okay" but has its limitations, am hoping the 260 is better due to the heavier bullets.
Re: 260 out to a 1000 yds?
Use factory. HSM 123 scenars.
Use factory. HSM 123 scenars.
