Range Report 260 vs 6.5x284

CarbonOne

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First off let me say that I own both a 260 and a 6.5x284.

Just wanted to hear your thoughts on why one is better than the other.

I'm partial to the 260. The 6.5 offers better velocity but not by much and has a much shorter barrel life in general. The ability to by lapua brass in 6.5 is nice.

I'm guess what I'm askng is why is the 6.5 so popular in benchrest type shoots and the 260 more popular in practical shoots? Is the little gain in velocity really worth the extra barrel wear?
 

wfv56

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Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

The 6.5-284 will easily drive the heavy bullets to the 2950 fps sweet spot. Not true for a 260. For a tactical rifle the 260 is a better choice mainly as a 6.5-284 is too long for most magazines. The short barrel life is another real negative on a 6.5-284. Bottom line for a single shoot 6.5 has more performance, 260 is a better choice for a magazine fed rifle. If more performance out of a magazine is desired a 243 with 105 vld at 3250 is a option.
 

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Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

Lapua makes .243 brass, which can be easily necked up to .260. I use Win brass, .243 and/or 7-08, and it works fine with a little prep.

Longer barrels can get your .260/142SMK up to 2850 and better. I use a 28" and get to 2850 without pushing it. God only knows how fast the 95V-Max will go on a max load, but I do know it will hold together.

Greg
 

Lazuris

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Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

I'm getting 2935 260rem w/ a 26" krieger 1:8 5r

44g 4350 139g laupa's remmy brass 210m 2.20 OAL no pressure signs
 

novaman64

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Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lazuris</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm getting 2935 260rem w/ a 26" krieger 1:8 5r

44g 4350 139g laupa's remmy brass 210m 2.20 OAL no pressure signs
</div></div>

Are you running a long action or single feeding?
 

Lazuris

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Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

Short action. I'm using AI mags and @ 2.20 they just fit.
 

novaman64

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Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

Sorry.. I was thinking 3.20... That cant be right... isnt SAMI spec on it 2.80 OAL? your loading short?

With my wyatts extended mag box, I am loading at 2.95, the max I will take is 2.99....
 

Niles Coyote

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarbonOne</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm guess what I'm askng is why is the 6.5 so popular in benchrest type shoots and the 260 more popular in practical shoots? Is the little gain in velocity really worth the extra barrel wear?

    </div></div>
    In benchrest, f-class and such you need every advantage possible to shoot little groups and the 6.5x284 squeezes as much potential as the 6.5 bullet can muster. Tactical/practical shooting you are trying to hit a 1 or 2 moa target, a hit is a hit and not measured in .001 of an inch for score.

    Add to this mag friendly, higher round count on the barrel and the 260 becomes easy to like.
     

    bohem

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    I have a 6.5-06 that smokes the 260 I have as well. 400fps difference at the muzzle. I've said this before in a thread about the 6.5-06 for Summitsitter (I think) about the 6.5-284. The case capacity of the 2 are almost identical and the overbore ratios are almost identical too.

    99% of the people that I hear load data are loading it wrong IMO. 4831sc is too fast for 140gr bullets in that case. Put some RL25 in there and watch what happens.

    I've tested 4831sc, RL22, Retumbo, and RL25 through the -06 variant.

    IMR7828 has been told to me as a good powder to hit max pressure from the 6.5-284/6.5-06 and I'm using Retumbo for 3150+fps from a 28" barrel.

    If you take a 6.5-284 and put appx 50-51gr of 4831sc in the case you get velocities flirting with 3000fps, switching to RL25 and stuffing around 56-57gr in the same case (it will probably be a lightly compressed load) will net you more speed by a fair margin. To give it a fair shake, 4831sc is EXTREMELY consistent with groups... it's just too slow to validate the cost of a bigger 6.5mm case when compared to the 260.

    Retumbo is pretty well set on the case capacity but a 30"-32" barrel is needed to really light 'em up.

    No 260 will run with a 6.5-284 when it's loaded properly. The 6.5-284 and 6.5-06 will run very close to each other and both have similar barrel lives.

    I like the 260 a lot. It's very easy to load for, the case capacity vs. bore is flexible for bullet selection, components are readily available, and I can find good reloading data on it to work from. The 6.5-284 data is not well developed for speed and the 6.5-06 is all but non-existent.

    I helped a guy at my club take his 6.5-284 with great grouping loads at 2975fps with the 140 Berger to almost 3100 fps. Switching the powder and primer out made a world of difference.

    Niles- Edging a little difference from a 2850fps 260 load to a 2950fps load in the 6.5-284, think about the difference you get when you compare 2850fps to 3075 fps. The drop is something easy to account for, but check the wind difference... Almost like shooting a 308 against a 260.
     

    Greg Langelius *

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    I've been giving the 6.5x47 chambering some scrutiny. Looks somewhat promising.

    I'd be happier if it, the 6.5-284, 6.5 Creedmore, and .260 Rem were better supported by multiple ammunition makers.

    Greg
     

    Hasgun Willtravel

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    Greg,

    I have been shooting the 6.5x47 exclusively for about a year and a half from a Pierce Tac Repeater. My results have far exceeded my expectations.

    With 41.5gr of H4350 I run 2870, CCI BR4, and 142 SMKs. SD is in the 5's. Lapua makes great brass, of with I am on the 7th firing, and according to the RCBS gauge tool, no apparent signs of stress to the brass with only 1 trimming to date.

    Down range results are consistent and phenomenal.

    I love the 6.5 bullets, and that's all have ever shot, or desired to shoot. With the powder capacity, velocity results, and brass life, it is my opinion that this is by far the best 6.5 selection. To obtain higher velocities, you need to step up to the 6.5x284 or the 6.5-06 or .264 magnum, but velocity gains are negligible, when compared to brass life, powder consumption, barrel life, and the overall cost of running so called higher "performance" rounds.

    My .002 on 6.5 calibers.
     

    bohem

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    Can you explain how you're comparing them a little for me?

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To obtain higher velocities, you need to step up to the 6.5x284 or the 6.5-06 or .264 magnum, but velocity gains are negligible, when compared to brass life, powder consumption, barrel life, and the overall cost of running so called higher "performance" rounds.</div></div>

    I understand the barrel lift costs but not the brass life comment.

    I have 6 firings on the first batch of 6.5-06 brass with only an initial trim, the primer pockets are still strong and the cases aren't showing head separation signs yet.

    Powder consumption is obvious, I shoot 59.7gr of Retumbo instead of the 41.5gr you're shooting, primers are no different in cost, and the overall cost of brass isn't much different by the time I prep the Win cases.

    I shoot the 6.5-06 only when a match is either UKD or known to be very long, otherwise the 260 is a match to your 47L

    I guess I'm not understanding how the 350-400fps increase in muzzle velocity I'm getting from the 6.5-06 is negligible compared to the Lapua case. By the time you get to 1200yd though there's a much bigger difference

    47L @ 1000yd
    1000 -266.5" drop 62.8" drift
    1200 -442.2" drop 96.9" drift

    6.5-06 @ 1000yd
    1000 -195.2" drop 51.2" drift
    1200 -323.9" drop 78.6" drift

    I'm not saying you can replace a medium capacity 6.5 solely with a large capacity 6.5, just that the differences are not negligible. Having only a 260 class case against only a 284/06 class case then I agree with you; the jump in capacity isn't worth it.

    If that's the situation I think a shooter is best suited to move up to a 7mm with 284 to WSM capacity.
     

    Hasgun Willtravel

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you explain how you're comparing them a little for me? </div></div>

    Sure


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I understand the barrel lift costs but not the brass life comment. </div></div>

    Brass life is significantly shorter when running at such pressure, your beating the piss out of brass, ymmv, but compared to the 6.5x47 or .260, you will go through far more brass, or at least I did.

    My 6.5x284 required trimming every 3rd firing, removing brass, not to mention the primer pocket stretch.


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    the primer pockets are still strong and the cases aren't showing head separation signs yet. </div></div>

    My milage did vary. I ran a 6.5x284 pushed pretty hard, 3-5 firings and the primer pockets were as wide as shanksters ol' ladies ass. I never did start to show case head seperation, mainly because at 1500 rounds down the pipe, roughly 5 firings on all the brass I had, my barrel was toast, and so was most of the brass.

    Mind you, I may have fallen into the category you speak of, I was running H4350 at around 2975 to 3025, and pushing quite hard, I never toyed with RE powders.


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I guess I'm not understanding how the 350-400fps increase in muzzle velocity I'm getting from the 6.5-06 is negligible compared to the Lapua case. By the time you get to 1200yd though there's a much bigger difference</div></div>

    See above. Velocity gains are important in the minds of wild cat enthusiests. What does all that speed gain you? Slightly less drop? So what. Velocity beyond 2850 in 6.5 is wasted because the B.C. is not improved. If you want to shoot farther, o.k., but there are better cartridges for that too.

    In an overall Tactical Match rifle, all things must be taken into consideration. Can a 6.5-06 or 6.5x284 run, hell yes, quite well.. but x-rings dont care if it got there at 3000fps or 2850.

    However, on timed stages, when recoil and bipod hop come into play all that must be considered too. You might see more cross fires becase of all the recoil, no trace, etc.

    Unless your running a 20lb. gun, there is no way to stay on target while cycling the bolt under recoil to keep up, so infact, 3200fps is slower to target.

    The un-ending arguement for caliber accuracy will never die. My point, which is the only obvious discussion that has a clear cut aggreable point, is accuracy at the cost of efficencey. There is no comparison to the 6.5x47 in the 6.5 world.

    I dont like to get into discussion of velocity arguments over cartridges of the same caliber, because its moot. With higher to extreme velocity comes many disadvantageous qualities, including slower follow up shot, barrel life, the list goes on and on.

    If you want a nice cartridge to run 3200 with a decent B.C., run a .243 with 115 DTacs. Thats what I should be doing.
     

    bohem

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    Thanks for taking the time to explain that, I appreciate it.

    As I mentioned above, the 6.5-06 gets run for very long courses and UKD matches with hits counting more than time. The rifle is about 17lb with the #7S 28" barrel so that helps recoil and balance.

    The biggest thing that I've found with the 06 over the 260 is that the point where I start to worry about danger space on 12" squares goes out several hundred yards further, so UKD and/or tricky wind situations it seems to help a lot.

    It does sound like you whooped your 6.5-284 brass unnecessarily. If you ever get to load for that case again try some RL-25, IMR7828, or Retumbo under the 140's. You'll get a big boost in MV without the spiking chamber pressures. That will help the primer pockets and the trimming issues you had. Not saying it's your fault though, the information that everyone touts for these type chamberings centers around H4350 and H4831sc. I wasn't satisfied with the results in those powders and I did a lot of experimenting.

    In fact, my first 6.5-06 barrel spent about 25% of it's short life just doing pressure testing to find a more applicable powder.

    ETA: I spin together my own rebarrel work, that's a big factor in choosing to shoot something that rips through tubes. I'd be much less likely to run it if I was paying more than $150 plus my time for a rebarrel job. Nice comment on Shankster's ol lady...
     

    Hasgun Willtravel

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    My buddy just got a rifle chambered up in 6.5x284, and shot it a Reade this past weekend. He shot very well despite feeding issues out of an unmodified AI mag, costing points in timed stages.

    I will definitely recommend he check out the RL-25. Thanks for the info bro!
     

    flounderv2

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    Bohem. I was supremely impressed with the consistency of your 6.5-06 when shooting the mile this past weekend.

    Nice work and good times.
     

    bohem

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    HGWT- No problem, let me know if I can help with it in the future.

    Flounder, thanks. Maybe next time I'll hit a few more targets on the course... I'll refrain from more excuses...


    Francis hit the mile target from the top of Stage 1 when we were up there, I was damn impressed.
     

    raptor99

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    All the rounds your talking about are great rounds. Its like arguing over Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. Pick the one you like and shoot it.

    I still have a love affair with the 6.5x284 but I just shot to much and couldn't afford to replace a barrel every year. I still have two 260s and a 6.5x55 which is a nice compermise. I have a new 6.5 Kreiger in the rack and may even try the 6.5x47 to see how I like it.

    I also shot the 243s and liked them. They are hard to beat but you just can't beat a heavier bullet in the real world with windy conditions. The heavy bullets just seem to shoot better even though the lighter bullets look better on paper. At least thats been my findings shooting them side by side. Some good comments and nice to see a "Civil" discussion without getting into the mine is bigger than yours debate!!
     

    yavapai kid

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    I run a 6.5-284 and get 3,050 mv with 50g of RL17, 140's.

    With 130g bullets and 61g of RS Magnum I'm getting 3,150 mv

    That's in a SHORT action with Wyatts and 25" barrel.

    COAL is 2.980.

    Anyone who says you can't run a 6.5-284 in a short action has never tried.

    It feeds and ejects better than anything else I own.


    edited to add 140's.

     

    novaman64

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    Re: 260 vs 6.5x284

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: apache kid</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run a 6.5-284 and get 3,050 mv with 50g of RL17

    With 130g bullets and 61g of RS Magnum I'm getting 3,150 mv

    That's in a SHORT action with Wyatts and 25" barrel.

    COAL is 2.980.

    Anyone who says you can't run a 6.5-284 in a short action has never tried.

    It feeds and ejects better than anything else I own.




    </div></div>

    Ever try the Berger 140's?