Rifle Scopes 3-20x50 PMII S&B

[MillSpec]

Just found out that we are looking at APRIL at least in the UK!

This is the worst situation to be in for me

4-16x50 works out the same price here as the 3-20x50 but the new one has extra features such as the MTC and the Lock turrets.

If i buy a 4-16x50 then the 3-20x50 is just going to kill off the 4-16 since there is no reason why you would want LESS mag and features for the same money!

Thing is that there is no guarantee that its going to be here in April either which makes this all the more painful.

The price of this purchase means i really dont want to regret anything.

 

[Guest]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Based on this logic, the 4-16x50mm or 42mm for that matter should have "killed off" the 3-12x50mm, yet.....it's still around. If you're all about the magnification, get a 5-25x.

There are quite a few cats on here that can't afford these optics and get by just fine with less.

And stop your bitching

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Based on this logic, the 4-16x50mm or 42mm for that matter should have "killed off" the 3-12x50mm, yet.....it's still around. If you're all about the magnification, get a 5-25x.

There are quite a few cats on here that can't afford these optics and get by just fine with less.

And stop your bitching

</div></div>

My Logic is that who would buy a 4-16x50 when a 3-20x50 is the SAME price? Its similiar weight and length and comes with more features than the 4-16x50.

The 3-12x50 is much cheaper than the 3-20x50. and the 5-25x56 is much bigger and more expensive than the 3-20x50.

WTF does it have to do with other people not being able to afford these optics? Sounds like your a bit bitter for some reason or another.

This is not a bitch its a issue of choice and availability for me and other people who are wanting a new S&B

 

[bward]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

I agree that the 3-20 may make the 4-16's hard to sell. The only reasons I can think of that the 4-16 would still be preferred by some is if the 3-20 tunnels too much at low mags, or if the large magnification ratio makes the reticle too small at lower powers and too thick at higher mags.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the 3-20 may make the 4-16's hard to sell. The only reasons I can think of that the 4-16 would still be preferred by some is if the 3-20 tunnels too much at low mags, or if the large magnification ratio makes the reticle too small at lower powers and too thick at higher mags. </div></div>

The figures from S&B claim the FOV is bigger than the 4-16x50 and also the twilight factor is higher but without one to look through i dont know how this will come out in the end product.

My head is telling me to wait it out but the money is burning a hole in my pocket telling me to buy a S&B today but i know come April id wish i had of waited

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the 3-20 may make the 4-16's hard to sell. The only reasons I can think of that the 4-16 would still be preferred by some is if the 3-20 tunnels too much at low mags, or if the large magnification ratio makes the reticle too small at lower powers and too thick at higher mags. </div></div>

The figures from S&B claim the FOV is bigger than the 4-16x50 and also the twilight factor is higher but without one to look through i dont know how this will come out in the end product.

My head is telling me to wait it out but the money is burning a hole in my pocket telling me to buy a S&B today but i know come April id wish i had of waited </div></div>

I'd buy a 4-16x with a better FOV than a 3-20x personally, but that's a personal choice. My current scope only goes to 14x and I've yet to really suffer from it. I do atleast a fair amount of shooting.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: COURAGEWOLF</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the 3-20 may make the 4-16's hard to sell. The only reasons I can think of that the 4-16 would still be preferred by some is if the 3-20 tunnels too much at low mags, or if the large magnification ratio makes the reticle too small at lower powers and too thick at higher mags. </div></div>

The figures from S&B claim the FOV is bigger than the 4-16x50 and also the twilight factor is higher but without one to look through i dont know how this will come out in the end product.

My head is telling me to wait it out but the money is burning a hole in my pocket telling me to buy a S&B today but i know come April id wish i had of waited </div></div>

I'd buy a 4-16x with a better FOV than a 3-20x personally, but that's a personal choice. </div></div>

Sorry the 3-20x50 has the bigger FOV.

 

[teknikallysekure]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B


Are there any detrimental weight differences?

 

[Guest]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My Logic is that who would buy a 4-16x50 when a 3-20x50 is the SAME price? Its similiar weight and length and comes with more features than the 4-16x50.

The 3-12x50 is much cheaper than the 3-20x50. and the 5-25x56 is much bigger and more expensive than the 3-20x50.

WTF does it have to do with other people not being able to afford these optics? Sounds like your a bit bitter for some reason or another.

This is not a bitch its a issue of choice and availability for me and other people who are wanting a new S&B </div></div>


Well, from what I can tell on Eurooptic, most of the PMII (with the exception of Short Dots and the 10x42) will put you in the $3200 neighborhood regardless of magnification. Depending on your options it will be +- a few hundred dollars. There are some 3-12's that cost more than 5-25's. And if you're going to spend $3k plus on a scope, is a hundred dollars really that big of a problem?

Your original post makes reference:

"This is the worst situation to be in for me (frown)"
"which makes this all the more painful"

This sounds like bitching to me. And no one wants to hear your woes about which $3k scope you should get. Boo fucking hoo. If you want the 3-20x, then suck it up and wait. The 4-16 is still a very capable piece of equipment.

Magnification isn't everything. I went from a 5-25x56 down to a 4-16x42. If your only concern is magnification and price, look at NightForce. They will get you up to 22x, for less $$$.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My Logic is that who would buy a 4-16x50 when a 3-20x50 is the SAME price? Its similiar weight and length and comes with more features than the 4-16x50.

The 3-12x50 is much cheaper than the 3-20x50. and the 5-25x56 is much bigger and more expensive than the 3-20x50.

WTF does it have to do with other people not being able to afford these optics? Sounds like your a bit bitter for some reason or another.

This is not a bitch its a issue of choice and availability for me and other people who are wanting a new S&B </div></div>


Well, from what I can tell on Eurooptic, most of the PMII (with the exception of Short Dots and the 10x42) will put you in the $3200 neighborhood regardless of magnification. Depending on your options it will be +- a few hundred dollars. There are some 3-12's that cost more than 5-25's. And if you're going to spend $3k plus on a scope, is a hundred dollars really that big of a problem?

Your original post makes reference:

"This is the worst situation to be in for me (frown)"
"which makes this all the more painful"

This sounds like bitching to me. And no one wants to hear your woes about which $3k scope you should get. Boo fucking hoo. If you want the 3-20x, then suck it up and wait. The 4-16 is still a very capable piece of equipment.

Magnification isn't everything. I went from a 5-25x56 down to a 4-16x42. If your only concern is magnification and price, look at NightForce. They will get you up to 22x, for less $$$.
</div></div>

As i said i dont shop on Europtic since i live in the UK. the prices here are different by magnification and so should they be in the USA. They have different list prices from S&B and yes we import them also. Also options here dont really make much difference to price at all.

Im not after magnification top end im after magnification range and i like a low power such as 3 for use on my PVS14 and i like the higher mag for when im blasting targets. Also the 3-20x50 has a 25m minimum Px vs 50m on the 4-15x50,

Nightforce here is as much as a S&B and the mag range doesnt work for me at all and the rotating eye peice wouldnt work so well with a PVS14 hanging off the back. I also want FF not SFP.

I wont lie i am unhappy with the current situation the scope was meant to be out months ago and if it wasnt basically everything the 4-16x50 was and then some on top for free i wouldnt be having this conversation.

My guess is just to suck it up and wait

 

[bm11]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bward</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I agree that the 3-20 may make the 4-16's hard to sell. The only reasons I can think of that the 4-16 would still be preferred by some is if the 3-20 tunnels too much at low mags, or if the large magnification ratio makes the reticle too small at lower powers and too thick at higher mags. </div></div>The Klein reticle is a .035 mil reticle, the same as a p4f. So, .035 mil in a FFP scope is the same size at the same magnification in both scopes. Also- from what I have read, the 3-20 does not tunnel at ALL. From memory, the 4-16 tunnels at about 5.3 and down.

In my opinion, the 3-20 replaces both the 3-12 and the 4-16, making both obsolete. And I plan on buying one.

 

[JRose]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> From memory, the 4-16 tunnels at about 5.3 and down. </div></div>

Rofl.

 

[bward]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

I've never shot with a 4-16 S&B. Do they tunnel or not? I know the 5-25's do, but have no idea about the 4-16's.

 

[Jerry R]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

The 3-20 I had the opportunity to handle had no tunneling at all at low power. As far as it making any other S&B obsolete I believe that statement would be based solely on personal opinion.
I will have at least one 3-20, right along with my 4-16s and 5-25s.
They each have their own purpose and won't be going anywhere.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

where does a 4-16x50 have any purpose vs a 3-20x50 that looks even shorter and only a few grams heavier and that is pretty much the same price.

3-12x50 is cheaper and without Px adjustment which imo will appeal to a different shooter.

 

[JRose]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">where does a 4-16x50 have any purpose vs a 3-20x50 </div></div>

It doesn't. The 4-16 will be worth about half of what they are now.

Be sure to contact me for disposal.

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Hmm...

3-20 MIL is double turn
4-16 MIL is single turn

I will assist JRose in 4-16 disposal, at the going rate (half of retail) of course.

BTW JRose, all the tests I have seen have the 4-16 tunneling at 5.7x and lower.
That is, of course, at sea level. YMMV.

 

[bm11]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> From memory, the 4-16 tunnels at about 5.3 and down. </div></div>

Rofl. </div></div>What's so funny? The 4-16 does tunnel. I actually owned one. And the 5.3x wasn't chosen at random, it is because the "true" magnification range is 3x total. 5.33x3=16x. Below that is all tunnel.

 

[JRose]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Funny part was that I must've gotten screwed. On my model, my mag ring adjusts in increments of 1. Apparently I got robbed of the model that adjusts in .1 increments. Lol

 

[Jerry R]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tigerbikes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmm...

3-20 MIL is double turn
4-16 MIL is single turn</div></div>

My rifles that wear the 4-16s need less than 10 mil to get me to subsonic range which is well beyond the 1K mark so the need for a double turn knob is unnecessary for their application. Can't say I've ever wished they had more than 16x and rarely are they ever used below 6x.
The rifles that don't apply to this wear the 5-25s.

As I said, I do have the need for at least one 3-20 but I won't part with the 4-16s to have one.

Hey Jeff, count me in for disposal assistance for any 4-16s you hear of that are considered obsolete.

 

[bm11]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Funny part was that I must've gotten screwed. On my model, my mag ring adjusts in increments of 1. Apparently I got robbed of the model that adjusts in .1 increments. Lol </div></div>Oh, I didn't know for SURE it was 5.3, it was kinda one of these things where I figured out the point where it actually started to tunnel, it looked like 5.3x based on the position of the mag ring, and then it ended up making sense because 5.3x4 = 16. As far as I know, and I am certainly no EXPERT, but most scopes "true" power range is a magnification factor. Clearly this scope has a magnification factor of 3x, with a range of 5.33-16, the rest below that tunneling.

I might be completely wrong, but that has always been my interpretation of the system.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

S&B confirmed APROX April for these scopes.

Also the MIL is SINGLE turn and not double like the german site says.

As for this tunnelling effect i have never looked hard enough to notice this on any scope tbh does anyone have something to back it up?

the quoted FOV on S&B site should be accurate at both min and max mag?

 

[Jerry R]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also the MIL is SINGLE turn and not double like the german site says.

As for this tunnelling effect <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">i have never looked hard enough</span></span> to notice this on any scope tbh does anyone have something to back it up?

</div></div>

The 3-20x I handled did indeed have a locking double turn milrad elevation knob.

Never looked hard enough! Have you ever looked through one at all?

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Yes i had a PH2 in 3-12 but as i said i didnt notice it.

in all honesty i spend most my time hunting and using Night vision which leaves little time to find the flaws in my tools.

i would be suprised to see the double turn mil turret since the turret can complete its full elevation in a single turn. there is no extra elevation in this model than the 4-16x50.

i have been told this by the retailer who has the info from the importer.

 

[B.Bates]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Also the MIL is SINGLE turn and not double like the german site says</span>.
</div></div>


are you saying the 3-20 is going to be avaiable in a single turn mil turret like a 4-16?????

 

[JRose]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

It's funny to me how this 3-20 will make the 4-16 "obsolete"...

The 4-16 didn't make the 3-12 obsolete.

The 5-25 didn't make the 4-16 obsolete.


I guess there will always be folks that think the next revision will give them this killer edge, meanwhile ignoring the one thing that will actually give you the edge. Shoot more, chase the latest gear less....

 

[ponchair]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

JRose, don't you know that everything previous to the 3-20 is junk? The new technology will make you have more hits @ 1000, said so right on S&B's box.

 

[bm11]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's funny to me how this 3-20 will make the 4-16 "obsolete"...

The 4-16 didn't make the 3-12 obsolete.

The 5-25 didn't make the 4-16 obsolete.


I guess there will always be folks that think the next revision will give them this killer edge, meanwhile ignoring the one thing that will actually give you the edge. Shoot more, chase the latest gear less.... </div></div>I think that the 4-16 will still be a nice optic, as will the 3-12. Where your logic fails however is that the 3-20 provides a magnification range that eclipses the 4-16 on both ends, in a smaller package, and supposedly doesn't tunnel. All at a comparable price to the 4-16. So, while it doesn't make the 4-16 a bad scope, it certainly will be a tough sell, which I believe the point will be.

"Do you want the scope that does everything the other one does, plus more? No thanks- give me the one that does less for the same price."

While I agree that there is no reason to immediately throw out your 4-16 to get the latest greatest, however, at the same time you would be a fool to buy the 4-16 at the same price if both were available.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Also the MIL is SINGLE turn and not double like the german site says</span>.
</div></div>


are you saying the 3-20 is going to be avaiable in a single turn mil turret like a 4-16?????


</div></div>

that what i have been told now by 2 retailers

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ninja Pirtle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JRose, don't you know that everything previous to the 3-20 is junk? The new technology will make you have more hits @ 1000, said so right on S&B's box. </div></div>

You just dont get it do you.

 

[dar1246]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

I hope the 3x20 makes the 4x16 out dated. I will buy more hopefully at a discount price. The 4x16 is a great scope for me.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hope the 3x20 makes the 4x16 out dated. I will buy more hopefully at a discount price. The 4x16 is a great scope for me. </div></div>

i think this is the point of the discussion. i nearly dropped a ton of cash on a 4-16x50 when i found out the 3-20x50 is going to be the same money and do everything the 4-16x50 would do and then some on top.

i might still opt for the 4-16x50 non illuminated with the P3 since thats £240 cheaper than the illuminated version and justify it to myself that way.

 

[neeley205]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

I think I will just solve this for myself by keeping my 4-16 on my .308 which has never needed more than 16, and putting a 3-20 on my 6.5CM when its done and go on being completely happy with both, as I'm sure I will be.

I'm sure while I have the ability, I will probably still be shooting the CM on mags between 9-15 like I have with every other scope, regardless of how far I'm shooting. But it will be nice to have it.

I just bought a non illuminated 4-16 P3 on here for almost $1K less than retail. I will be happily awaiting the flood of great 4-16s to the board that I will happily snatch up to glass the rest of my rifles at 60% cost. . . . Thankyou ahead of time.

But in the end, I do agree with one aspect of the OP for sure. If it is the same price for both, I would definately go with the more versital one. That seems like a no brainer.

 

[JRose]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Eclipsing the magnification range of the 4-16 on both ends... It's a 3 instead of a 4.... Turn your scope from 5 to 4 and tell me what kind of difference that makes.


The 3-20 seems like a neat scope, I can't wait until it actually comes out.

Seeing as it was S&B's big release LAST year at SHOT, and here we are at SHOT '11 and it still hasn't dropped, well.... I'm glad I didn't wait on it. Sure as hell glad I didn't Pre-order it.

Not to mention, makes me wonder exactly why it's not being released? Are they having to make some design changes? Problems with the engineering?

Valid questions. I won't be the first one to own one, I'd rather it be out for a year or two to see if it's all it's really supposed to me.

In the meantime, hopefully I won't get annihilated in competeion with my archaic 4-16, or 3-12.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Eclipsing the magnification range of the 4-16 on both ends... It's a 3 instead of a 4.... Turn your scope from 5 to 4 and tell me what kind of difference that makes.


The 3-20 seems like a neat scope, I can't wait until it actually comes out.

Seeing as it was S&B's big release LAST year at SHOT, and here we are at SHOT '11 and it still hasn't dropped, well.... I'm glad I didn't wait on it. Sure as hell glad I didn't Pre-order it.

Not to mention, makes me wonder exactly why it's not being released? Are they having to make some design changes? Problems with the engineering?

Valid questions. I won't be the first one to own one, I'd rather it be out for a year or two to see if it's all it's really supposed to me.

In the meantime, hopefully I won't get annihilated in competeion with my archaic 4-16, or 3-12. </div></div>

You are looking at this as a 4-16x50 owner and its a different perspective to a person like me who is about to buy a new S&B.

if i already owned a 4-16x50 i wouldnt be phased that much since its more of an evolution in terms of the S&B line.

I really dont know what to do in all honesty since there are 4 scopes here that i could buy from S&B.

4-16x50 Varmint £1180 ( Varmint ret and limited elevation)
4-16x50 PMII £1610 (no illumination)
4-16x50 PMII £1856 Illuminated
3-20x50 PMII £1840 Illuminated with MTC, LT

any of these would probably do for what i need it for. .223 out to 400-500 yards max

 

[bm11]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

For me, it's exciting because of the extra magnification in a small package. I was able to use my 5-25x56 as a spotter, but it was big and heavy. I am using a 4-16 right now, and it is the right mag range for shooting, but I could use a bit more for spotting.

I'm hoping the 3-20 does everything I want... and I hope it actually gets here.

 

[ponchair]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ninja Pirtle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JRose, don't you know that everything previous to the 3-20 is junk? The new technology will make you have more hits @ 1000, said so right on S&B's box. </div></div>

You just dont get it do you.</div></div>

Dude, that was a joke.

 

[Jerry R]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also the MIL is SINGLE turn and not double like the german site says.


</div></div>

Sure looks like a double turn MIL to me. Just like the one I saw at the Modern Day Marine show a few months ago.

I'm not doubting you. Hey, if that's what you read on the internet it must be true.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

here is the Email.

This is what I have had from York Guns

The 3-20x50 PM11 were ordered with Schmidt & Bender at the beginning of August 2010 and we have a delivery date of around week 15 which is mid April 2011. The reticles we will be getting for the spec you have enquired about are P4LF and P3L. Please be aware that we only have 2 available of each reticle in 1st FP, cm clicks as there are back orders for the rest so we recommend that you place an order asap!

They say in there catalogue that the cm is only in single turn.
Hope that is of some help
It is if you want to wait until April
Best regards
lisa

i got this email when i asked the question.

I see the photo above but how do you know thats not MOA turrets? This scope as 13 MRAD up and down adjustment so why would you need the 2nd set of numbers?

 

[Jerry R]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see the photo above but how do you know thats not MOA turrets? This scope as 13 MRAD up and down adjustment so why would you need the 2nd set of numbers? </div></div>

I know this because I held that very scope in my own hands. I didn't read it somewhere.
It has 14 MIL per revolution.

 

[bm11]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see the photo above but how do you know thats not MOA turrets? This scope as 13 MRAD up and down adjustment so why would you need the 2nd set of numbers? </div></div> So that if you are using a canted base, you can use more than 13 mils of elevation. Most situations don't call for it, but if you reach out to say 1200 yards with a .308, you'll be holding over 3+ mil to get there if you don't have more than 13 mils of elevation.

 

[neeley205]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

If you can go without till april, just wait. If its obviously eating you this badly you will regret any other purchase you make. Nothing wrong with wanting what you want. Its your money. I'm sure someone will chime in and say "your only shooting 5-600yds, why do you want so much mag?" Who cares, If you want it get it. If its too much mag, dial back. That's the entire point of veriable mag.

Best of luck with your purchase and I hope they don't delay the ship date. That would be my #1 concern.

 

[MillSpec]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

I like extra mag since its ALWAYS useful

the 3-20 mag range would be perfect for me and my PVS14 on the back.

the only thing thats not perfect is that its not out yet!

 

[Jerry R]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MillSpec</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the only thing thats not perfect is that its not out yet! </div></div>

On that I believe we can all agree!

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Personally I would much rather have my single turn MIL 4-16x42 on my .308 AR-10 than a double turn 3-20.

Same goes for my .308 bolt gun. No need for all the travel the 3-20 has. The 4-16x50 single turn MIL is much more practical IMHO.

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

Whether S&B continue production of the 4-16x will likely depend on sales after the 3-20x becomes available. It's a company of about 90 people, I think, so adding another model to the lineup will make production scheduling a little more complex.

The increase in magnification from 16x to 20x isn't enough to make a real difference, but the lighter, more compact size is welcome. I have and will keep my two 4-16x PMIIs, both are single turns, and never had the desire to buy the 3-20x with all the other scopes I have.

I am really skeptical about the MTC locking turrets with any reticle except a Horus. They may look cool in some way, but they will be a nightmare if you dial elevation and windage a lot.

 

[jazzyj]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

S&B 3-20 was my dream scope end of last year. The date kept getting pushed back so I ordered USO SN-3 3.2-17x44 20th anniversary. I think the S&B 3-20 will have its place. Whether or not other scopes will stop be mfg will likely depend on how sales keep up for each model. I am sure that S&B would not stop mfg if money is still being made.

 

[ChrisF]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B


The main feature on this scope to me is the Double turn ( mrad ) turret & not the higher magnification .

I donot like the locking turrets design , and will be after one with out ( locking ) & std direction , CW turn .

If the locking was a good design , I ONLY would like it on the windage knob ( but thats just ME ) .

for me the perfect app for this is on a 300WM or match gun .

I would like to see S&B , bring out a Tac version of the Zenth in 1.5-6x42 , or something like the little March Tac , but with less power ( ie not 24x top end ) .

Later Chris

 

[One-Eyed Jack]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would like to see S&B bring out a Tac version of the Zenth in 1.5-6x42, or something like the little March Tac, but with less power (ie not 24x top end ).</div></div>
I hear you about the 1.5-6x, the last scope I bought was a S&B 1.5-6x42 Classic with mil dot and short-dot type exposed turrets, but no illumination. It's going on an AR -- the total elevation travel is only 30 MOA or so and to get more travel and make it "tactical" S&B would have to add a flash dot and put it in a 34mm tube, so why not just go for the 1.1-8x?

 

[Dark Horse]

Re: 3-20x50 PMII S&B

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whether S&B continue production of the 4-16x will likely depend on sales after the 3-20x becomes available. It's a company of about 90 people, I think, so adding another model to the lineup will make production scheduling a little more complex.

The increase in magnification from 16x to 20x isn't enough to make a real difference, but the lighter, more compact size is welcome. I have and will keep my two 4-16x PMIIs, both are single turns, and never had the desire to buy the 3-20x with all the other scopes I have.

I am really skeptical about the MTC locking turrets with any reticle except a Horus. They may look cool in some way, but they will be a nightmare if you dial elevation and windage a lot. </div></div>

Where are you guys seeing that the 3-20 is more compact than a 4-16?

Unless riflescopes.com has incorrect information, the weight is the same and length is .35" shorter...hardly even worth mentioning.