Suppressors 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

[patches]

Gentlemen-

Today I finally got to try my AAC cyclone out at the range toady on my DTA SRS. This is the first suppressor I have owned and didn't really know what to expect. When I shot a group without the silencer the rifle performed about 1/2 MOA. Maybe a hair over. After I put the AAC cyclone on the groups shifted exactly 3.5" lower...... They will still on dead center, just low. The groups also opened up a little. Is this typical? Does anybody else have any experience with this?

I checked to see if there were any baffle strikes or anything like that and it looked fine. I tried removing the silencer and the groups went right back to where they were..... I'm a little confused. Any help is appreciated.

Ryan

 

[KYS]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

You will lose some velocity with a suppressor. I have an AI in 300WM and when I shoot my AAC 300SD on it, it will shoot about 2" lower then zero without the can.

But if your groups are opening up I would recommend trying a different ammo or load if you are hand loading.

 

[wirehand]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYshooter338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You will lose some velocity with a suppressor. </div></div>

I am trying to wrap my head around this one.
I realize that you have quite a bit experiance with suppresors, but Freebore boost is a common
occurance with suppresors.
Have you chrono'd rounds with/without suppresors ?

My experiance has been contrary to the above statement.

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Thanks for the input. I was using 168gr FGMM. I assume your groups are staying the same, just lower?
Thanks again.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Exactly, I <span style="text-decoration: underline">gain</span> between 10fps and 20fps with my suppressors... but I suppose results will vary.

As far as the shift low, well think about that, you are hanging a weigh off the end of the barrel, of course it will hit low... the barrel is pulled down by the additional weigh. This is common, and why you opt for the lightest suppressor possible or one that can tune the shift.

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

I have heard the opposite as well. From what I have researched most experience a increase in muzzle velocity. I understand the ideal of it being a weight on the end of the barrel, I was just wondering if this was typical. I can easily adjust for the shift but was a little concerned. The groups opening up may be an issue on my end of things. Like I said, the shots were still dead center just lower. I appreciate the quick replies.

 

[lvmike]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Suppressors can effect how a load shot for sure. At 100y I pick up .2m down and left with my AAC Cyclone. It really depends on the rifle/barrel and I'd bet individual cans as well. My velocity went from 2910 to 2920 with a 155.5 berger with the can.

 

[long-shot]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

My Cyclone K shifted my POI down 1/2" with no horizontal shift. My accuracy appeared to increase 1/10" +/-.

I'm not a big believer in chrono's, but my dope is the same out to 800 yards as before so velocity didn't change much either way.

 

[skinney_7]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

well, i just put one on order about 2 weeks ago, hope i don't get bigger groups... as for the chrono, i gain about 10fps on one of my rifles and lose close to the same on some of my others.

 

[KYS]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Ive checked velocities with the Accuracy International. It loses some speed for some reason... The 300SD on the end of it is not that heavy.... not enough to be screwing it up 2.5-3" at 200 yard zero.

All of my others I do gain some velocity like Lowlight is saying. Especially in my 18" 308 rig.

 

[fastford]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

i have a titan on the end of my GAP 338LM and i get MAYBE 1/2 Poi at 100. Mine also picked up 10-15fps with the suppressor on.

did you check for baffle strikes? since its a thread on can, POI should be minimal

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

The first thing I did was check the can to make sure it was tight. I used my kung-fu grip on it so it was GTG. The second thing I checked was for baffle strikes. I am getting a lot of mixed reviews from people. Some have a POI shift that is close to mine, but not quite as much and some are having much less. I a little surprised in the lack of consistency. One idea I might try once I legally own the can is clocking it with some small spacers to see if that changes the POI as well. I just thought that 3.5" was a little excessive.

 

[wirehand]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

When you are comparing the shifts, are these the same rifles ?

I am unfamiliar with DTA you have, but if the way the barrel is supported either in front of the recoil lug or not will have profound difference.

Not to mention barrel contours.

Clocking the can is deffinatly worth a try.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Check this shit out, 4" at 4 o'clock. Sent back to AAC, Mike said it appeared the face of the can was not squared up properly, they did that, sent it back & now take that second target and rotate the group around to ~2 o'clock (makes sense, shave a little off & the can screws on a little farther). AAC squaring did not reduce the POI shift magnitude. Mike said he'd give me another can but it would cost another stamp.

My POS Gemtech HVT's POI shift is way less, but interesting it is "up".

Would like to have someone else shoot my cyclone to make sure it is the can & not a can/barrel combo issue.

What I'm shooting: GAP custom with MTU Krieger barrel

 

[sawhornsoff]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

When I shoot my 308 with my 7.62 SD, the impact is approx. 1.0 mil lower or about 4 inches. The velocity is slightly increased 10-20 fps. The rifle shoots well so I don't worry about it. My rifle is zeroed with the suppressor.

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this shit out, 4" at 4 o'clock. Sent back to AAC, Mike said it appeared the face of the can was not squared up properly, they did that, sent it back & now take that second target and rotate the group around to ~2 o'clock (makes sense, shave a little off & the can screws on a little farther). AAC squaring did not reduce the POI shift magnitude. Mike said he'd give me another can but it would cost another stamp.

My POS Gemtech HVT's POI shift is way less, but interesting it is "up".

Would like to have someone else shoot my cyclone to make sure it is the can & not a can/barrel combo issue.
</div></div>

I feel your pain bro. I opted for a thread on suppressor under the assumption that it would decrease the POI change when compared to a QD can. I'm going to try clocking mine once I get it. You may want to try the same for shits and giggles to see what happens. I don't see how it could hurt.

 

[KYS]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastford</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a titan on the end of my GAP 338LM and i get MAYBE 1/2 Poi at 100. Mine also picked up 10-15fps with the suppressor on.

did you check for baffle strikes? since its a thread on can, POI should be minimal </div></div>

Mine is a QD suppressor.

 

[KYS]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check this shit out, 4" at 4 o'clock. Sent back to AAC, Mike said it appeared the face of the can was not squared up properly, they did that, sent it back & now take that second target and rotate the group around to ~2 o'clock (makes sense, shave a little off & the can screws on a little farther). AAC squaring did not reduce the POI shift magnitude. Mike said he'd give me another can but it would cost another stamp.

My POS Gemtech HVT's POI shift is way less, but interesting it is "up".

Would like to have someone else shoot my cyclone to make sure it is the can & not a can/barrel combo issue.

What I'm shooting: GAP custom with MTU Krieger barrel

</div></div>

Who did your barrel threading? Is it a factory barrel? who installed it?
You might want to get another gun smith to look it over with the can you want to use on it. I always have GAP fit my cans to my barrels to ensure proper fitment. Never had an issue yet (knock on wood).

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

I'm hanging a 9.3" @ 40 oz SS .30 Mag can off a 22" tube and I get a 0.2 MIL shift in the vertical and none in the horizontal.



Good luck

 

[poison123]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

And whats your barrel contour?

 

[cardboardkiller]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

On my Sako TRG22 I get a 2" shift straight up. The shift is repeatable over and over and over. One day I shot 3 boxes of Black Hills 180 grain Accubond's, 5 shots at a time, checking the repeatability and zeroed my scope accordingly.

I can't tell any difference in the size of my groups by eyeballing them, but I'm no thousand yard shooter.

My gun wears the factory 26" barrel.

 

[skinney_7]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

i hope my cyclone doesn't have a shift that far out of wack, my HVT has about 1 min POI high, and its the QD model.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

As stated: "What I'm shooting: GAP custom with MTU Krieger barrel"

Moon built the gun, when I started talking to Mike at AAC he asked who threaded the barrel, when I told him Moon, he said "send the can back".

Still, I need to find time to catch up with a local Hider to see if they get the same POI shift off the can.

 

[bsp212]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

My AWC can shifts about 1/2moa on my rifle, but the same can on a friend's GAP rifle shifts about 4moa. It's really no big deal because it is repeatable. You can expect a POI shift with any suppressor - the key is the repeatability and keeping DOPE on it.

 

[ColoWyo]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Patches, my POI shifted about 3 inches and one inch right with my Cyclone. As long as it's repeatable, I wouldn't even worry about it.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poison123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And whats your barrel contour? </div></div>

I dunno

If I remember correctly a #7?

22" Rock from GAP

I typically shoot with a suppressor. I shot (and won) an FTR match last Sunday so I needed the zero without the can.


Good luck

 

[HPLLC]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

It is a little odd that it has 4" POI shift. The new cyclones have symmetrical baffles and an EDM bore. They are one of the lighter non-titanium thread mounts on the market. In other words they should naturally have less POI shift than competing products.

Given your positive experience with your HVT and the fact that it is a heavier suppressor (more likely to cause harmonic induced POI shift), it would seem to suggest any POI shift would be a silencer bore that was not concentric to its threads.

I wouldn't personally care either as I always shoot my bolt gun with the silencer attached. As long as your groups are tight and the silencer is causing a repeatable shift, it would be tolerable for me.

If rifle and suppressor bore alignment could be proven optically to be out of alignment it may be possible to EDM the bore .012" larger to clean it up or something like that. With a cyclone the sound reduction is good enough that that could probably be done without seriously impairing performance.

If alignment error was the case an alternate partial fix without bore modification may be possible by conventional machining. Taking a known true toolroom lathe and a piece of center drilled both ends http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-rounds/=6hn9ig (.375" ground rod) and inserting it in the suppressor bore. A lathe dog would be attached to the silencer and silencer thread shoulder turned into square with the bore on centers. The live center mounted in the tailstock would need to be confirmed to be aligned within .001" over th 11-12" span of the ground rod prior to machining with a dial indicator mounted on the cross slide.

If the thread is slightly out of square to the bore (.01-.02" TOR over 6-10"), the tolerance of thread fit will often allow a silencer bore to be brought into concentricity by machining the thread shoulder square to the silencer bore. That is if typical thread specs were cut- sometimes gunsmiths will fit suppressor threads to mere ten thousandths undersize using the silencer as the thread guage and in this case it may not have any tolerance slop for this method to accomplish anything at all.

What can't be done with a welded EDM bored silencer is to chuck the tube in a lathe spindle and expect anything positive to happen when you true the shoulder because that bore is EDM'd not true to OD of the tube but true to however it was setup on the EDM machine. So if the EDM operator pushed cycle start and the silencer was .010" from totally tight on its threaded fixture, or if the fixture had some sort of runout, it just EDM'd a silencer bore that isn't necessarily true to threads.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

HP,

I totally agree with you, I am as much curious to the "why" as anything; how can a concentric baffle thread-on can can bend the POI off the pure vertical axis? If the shift was either a little up or a little down I would feel better about living with it. But having to shift 3/4 MOA left & 3 1/2 MOA up or down is a bit much from a thread on can, IMHO. Defeats the purpose why I bought the thread-on in the first place.

The non-symmetrical baffeled can out performs the Cyclone in POI shift.

Thanks

 

[HPLLC]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HP,

I totally agree with you, I am as much curious to the "why" as anything; how can a concentric baffle thread-on can can bend the POI off the pure vertical axis? If the shift was either a little up or a little down I would feel better about living with it. But having to shift 3/4 MOA left & 3 1/2 MOA up or down is a bit much from a thread on can, IMHO. Defeats the purpose why I bought the thread-on in the first place.

The non-symmetrical baffeled can out performs the Cyclone in POI shift.

Thanks

</div></div>

Jay Quilligan of Quicksilver manufacturing is not using flawed logic when he talks about why he doesn't weld any of his silencers. Our experiences with welding have reinforced similar beliefs. Welding is not like machining- it creates a host of problems that can be isolated and reduced but the resultant product at best will be as good as a non welded CNC machined product for straightness, residual stresses and appearance- not likely better.

His website says, <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Q: WHY ARE THERE NO VISIBLE WELDS ON YOUR SILENCERS?

A: There aren't any welds on our silencers, period. QSM silencers are machined to extremely exacting tolerances using state of the art CNC machinery. Welding can induce distortions which affect the centering of components and also can affect accuracy of the silencer. We will not allow a silencer out of our shop that is more than .010 inches out of center from front to back. Our end caps are secured using threads and high temperature adhesive. </div></div>

Your silencer could probably be checked by your eye after clearing the weapon by putting a piece of paper in the breach and looking down the muzzle and comparing all the sides of the bore for similar spacing in relation to the suppressor bore, or by looking down the barrel with the bolt removed and comparing the angle of your eye in relation to the bore where you begin to see the front cap of the silencer.

If it's out of alignment, and you can wobble the silencer at the end at all when 1/2 a turn from fully tightened, why not buy the piece of ground rod for $13 and pay a silencer shop $100 to true it up if it's worth that.

It's a pretty simple operation for a machinist, and luckily the cyclone has a .375" straight taper EDM bore so that setup should be pretty solid and very straight.

 

[TOPO-sniper]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Good point brother, AAC should have done that when they had it in their shop.....

 

[PKelley]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

I get a 5 MOA down shift with an AAC SCAR H SD on my AW, and with the same load in a Savage no shift at all. The major difference is the savage has a 16.5" bbl and the AW has a 26". I don't know if that is the case or not but the shift is always repeatable so I don't worry about it.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

I am curious about some of the shifting and if corrected at a 100 would it be still on at 700-800 YDS or is just the start of the arching at an angle? I shoot an HVT on my GAP and I have a repeatable shift of 1 MOA down and 1 MOA right. I correct it and then shoot but I have not had the opportunity to test it further to see if the changes hold at distance. Just some of the things I think about on an early Saturday morning.

 

[PKelley]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

just correct it and your good to go

 

[Cheese]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Patches,

FWIW, I have a couple of suppressed systems from a few different manufacturers.
Suppressor boost does in fact exist in every single system I have used from .22 to .338.
I'm not going to go into what I feel works best, who's can is better than good sex etc..
The best shift I have seen so far is an absolutely repeatable rounds touching between suppressed and non suppressed.
In those two systems I had the can and barrel threaded and matched by the manufacturer who claimed to "match" the two systems.
I do think there is a very good theory out there about the relationship of the baffles to the relationship of the POI group.
It makes perfect sense to me that the way a baffle influences the blast may also in theory influence the flight of the bullet.
You might have a different smith look at the threads and find a very different result with the same system.
Or just get used to the shift if it's repeatable.

 

[HPLLC]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JSTARSZ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am curious about some of the shifting and if corrected at a 100 would it be still on at 700-800 YDS or is just the start of the arching at an angle? I shoot an HVT on my GAP and I have a repeatable shift of 1 MOA down and 1 MOA right. I correct it and then shoot but I have not had the opportunity to test it further to see if the changes hold at distance. Just some of the things I think about on an early Saturday morning. </div></div>

The suppressor boost is negligible and will often fade downrange due to increased parasitic drag. Most suppressor designs create turbulence that causes very slightly less optimal bullet flight stability and that results in increased parasitic drag or what could be explained as a slightly lower real world ballistic coefficient. Many suppressors require elevation (~1-2 MOA) to be added as range increases from medium to long range (~350-1000 meters).

Suppressors with very tight symmetrical baffle systems are better than others- Ops Inc and Surefire, for instance are not supposed to be as bad as typical industry asymmetric designs.

The reason for the good results with Ops and Surefire may also have something to do with the fact that the coaxial porting of the baffles gets gas moving out of the bore-line where it's less likely to effect bullet flight, without imparting more typical diagonal flow across the bullet bore which is a major contributor to turbulence.

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

I picked up my cyclone the other day (for good this time) and with weather permitting I should get some more testing done this week. I'll try and posts some result pics.

 

[firedog90]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Ryan,

When are you going to go test your new DTA and cyclone? Sumner sent me a pic of it. It looks bad ass. How long did the paperwork take from the time you sent it out till you received the stamp?

Alex

 

[Tuukka]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HPLLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOPO-sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HP,

I totally agree with you, I am as much curious to the "why" as anything; how can a concentric baffle thread-on can can bend the POI off the pure vertical axis? If the shift was either a little up or a little down I would feel better about living with it. But having to shift 3/4 MOA left & 3 1/2 MOA up or down is a bit much from a thread on can, IMHO. Defeats the purpose why I bought the thread-on in the first place.

The non-symmetrical baffeled can out performs the Cyclone in POI shift.

Thanks

</div></div>

Jay Quilligan of Quicksilver manufacturing is not using flawed logic when he talks about why he doesn't weld any of his silencers. Our experiences with welding have reinforced similar beliefs. Welding is not like machining- it creates a host of problems that can be isolated and reduced but the resultant product at best will be as good as a non welded CNC machined product for straightness, residual stresses and appearance- not likely better.

His website says, <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Q: WHY ARE THERE NO VISIBLE WELDS ON YOUR SILENCERS?

A: There aren't any welds on our silencers, period. QSM silencers are machined to extremely exacting tolerances using state of the art CNC machinery. Welding can induce distortions which affect the centering of components and also can affect accuracy of the silencer. We will not allow a silencer out of our shop that is more than .010 inches out of center from front to back. Our end caps are secured using threads and high temperature adhesive. </div></div>

Your silencer could probably be checked by your eye after clearing the weapon by putting a piece of paper in the breach and looking down the muzzle and comparing all the sides of the bore for similar spacing in relation to the suppressor bore, or by looking down the barrel with the bolt removed and comparing the angle of your eye in relation to the bore where you begin to see the front cap of the silencer.

If it's out of alignment, and you can wobble the silencer at the end at all when 1/2 a turn from fully tightened, why not buy the piece of ground rod for $13 and pay a silencer shop $100 to true it up if it's worth that.

It's a pretty simple operation for a machinist, and luckily the cyclone has a .375" straight taper EDM bore so that setup should be pretty solid and very straight.


</div></div>

The advice given above about DIY checking the suppressor alignment is good, but it does take some experience to judge it correctly.

With regards to welding vs. no welding, we have always manufactured our centrefire suppressors with a fully welded design. We believe it gives the best overall durability in the long run.

With regards to accuracy and POI shift, we believe that the baffle type is not as important as good alignment/concentricity of the suppressor bullet channel.

The maximum allowed throw on our products is .011" ( with most suppressors running half of that )

Take Care!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: firedog90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ryan,

When are you going to go test your new DTA and cyclone? Sumner sent me a pic of it. It looks bad ass. How long did the paperwork take from the time you sent it out till you received the stamp?

Alex </div></div>

PM Sent to ya, Alex.

 

[MAJ MALFUNCTION]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Patches,

Since SRS's come threaded only in 3/4x24 and Cyclones aren't offered with that thread pitch, I'm assuming that you had a smith thread your barrel for you (probably in 5/8x24)?

If your threads aren't concentric to bore w/squared shoulders, this could possibly be part of the problem (or it could be THE problem).

 

[737shark]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

I think its a weight issue of a 40 oz can. zero it with the can on and know your clicks if it if it shoots just as good as the can off or on it works

David

 

[patches]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MAJ MALFUNCTION</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patches,

Since SRS's come threaded only in 3/4x24 and Cyclones aren't offered with that thread pitch, I'm assuming that you had a smith thread your barrel for you (probably in 5/8x24)?

If your threads aren't concentric to bore w/squared shoulders, this could possibly be part of the problem (or it could be THE problem).

</div></div>

APA did the thread job and from what I'm told they do top notch work. I had it threaded 5/8x24.

Hopefully I should know more after this weekend.

 

[poison123]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Yes APA does top notch work. They did the same on my DTA for the mount.

 

[j-huskey]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

APA has threaded 6 of my rifles with no problems. I can put more than one can on any of the rifles with no problems.

Once upon a time, several years back, while out at Rifles Only, I took Jacob's GAP, Frank's GAP, and one of my rifles, then threaded the same can (Jet) on each one.
Obviously the machine work was good because the same can went on three rifles. Each rifle had a different shift which was very repeatable. Jacob's rifle has zero shift, a 16" barrel. Frank's rifle had 1" vertical shift, a 18" barrel. Mine had 3"vertical x1"horizontal shift on a 22" barrel.
I was able to put four different cans (Jets) on two of the rifles (mine and Frank's) and each rifle had a different shift with each can. The key was that all of the shifts were repeatable (and predictable).

On my rifle with the 22" barrel and the 3"x1" shift with the Jet can, other brand cans on it had zero shift and it only has a .5" vertical shift now with the Surefire that lives on it.
The Jet can that had 3" vertical on that rifle now lives on a 16" AR-10 and has a 1.5" vertical shift and the same 1" horizontal shift.

On that specific Jet can, I know at this point, the horizontal shift is due to something in the can manufacturing process, not the barrel threading. Jacob's rifle, no shift, Frank's 1" vertical, my 22" 3x1, my 16" 1.5x1, a 20" 2.5x1. The vertical shifts are due to the barrel diameters and can weight.

Every can is different and as long as they are repeatable, I don't worry about any of them. Sharpie the change on the side of the rifle and just shoot them.

I see the same thing 737Shark sees, the weight of the can deal.

 

[USMC_2674]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

When I buy guns now, I buy a suppressor for them too... leave the suppressor mounted at almost all times, and don't have to worry about POI shifts.

Just sight the gun in with the suppressor on and problem solved, eh?

Semper Fidelis,

Kent

 

[HPLLC]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

ops inc multi suppressor repeatability test

When the suppressor is of minimal or nominal weight for the barrel in question POI shift should be minimal as long as the bore is concentric.

I'm sure fully welding a silencer is the best way to ensure durability. It's just important to anneal materials (stress relieve the weldment), and then cut and thread silencer mounts in order to ensure the product is true. I'm sure Ase Utra does something like that. It adds a lot of cost and time to production, and the resultant product is marginally better or similar to a thread assembled one that is designed properly, so its a hard justification to make.

 

[Tuukka]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HPLLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ops inc multi suppressor repeatability test

When the suppressor is of minimal or nominal weight for the barrel in question POI shift should be minimal as long as the bore is concentric.

I'm sure fully welding a silencer is the best way to ensure durability. It's just important to anneal materials (stress relieve the weldment), and then cut and thread silencer mounts in order to ensure the product is true. I'm sure Ase Utra does something like that. It adds a lot of cost and time to production, and the resultant product is marginally better or similar to a thread assembled one that is designed properly, so its a hard justification to make.

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With a fully welded design, there are things you need to account for in the manufacturing process.

However, our time to manufacture a fully welded suppressor is very fast, this is due to the cast baffle construction we utilize, ie. we do not have separate baffles and outer tube, front cap etc.

Also, all of our thread adapters and fast attach mounts attach to the rear of the suppressor by a thread, so we only manufacture the suppressor bodies into stock and will then attach the appropriate thread size or fast attach mount when shipping orders.

Not meant for the customer to change, but brings more flexibility into our stockkeeping.

Take Care!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

 

[HPLLC]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

That's an interesting way to do it. Why not? It makes good sense.

 

[Tuukka]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HPLLC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's an interesting way to do it. Why not? It makes good sense. </div></div>

We think so too

Here is a batch of suppressor bodies from today, after being checked for alignment, before going to marking and phosphating;

 

[Conqueror]

Re: 3.5" POI shift with an AAC Cyclone?

Not sure why everyone makes such a big deal about POI shift. I have seen every brand of suppressor create shifts between zero and 10", and that's on professionally-threaded rifles and without baffle strikes. It just varies widely based on your individual rifle and silencer. You can take a silencer that causes a 4" left shift on one rifle, screw it on another rifle, and it'll be 1" down. There is little rhyme or reason to it.

What actually matters is whether the shift is repeatable and whether it opens your groups. If the groups remain tight, and the shift is always the same distance, then you can very easily remember that installing your silencer requires, say, 3 clicks left and 5 clicks up to get your zero. This adds perhaps 2 seconds to the install time when you attach the can and ensures perfect zero every time. Why this escapes people is beyond me.