30-06 147gr stability issues

[bdubmkg]

So this week I took my 3006 build out to shoot and did 100 and 200 yard shots. The targets on the left is the 3006 while my 6.5cm is on the right. This ammo is hxp surplus brass, don't remember the gr amount but H4895, and surplus 147gr pulled bullets loaded on a progressive press. At 100 yards they grouped pretty good given the ammo. Then At 200 it opened way up. I'm wondering if this bullet just doesn't stabilize after 100 yards worth a hoot.

That said, I have about 300 150Smk's and a bunch of 4895 that I want to try to see how it shoots at 200+ yards. If ya have any results for this combo I'd love to hear it.

 

[.505gibbs]

A 4 inch group at 200 yards with pulled 147 grain m80 bullets. I’d say that’s pretty good.

 

[308pirate]

So this week I took my 3006 build out to shoot and did 100 and 200 yard shots. The targets on the left is the 3006 while my 6.5cm is on the right. This ammo is hxp surplus brass, don't remember the gr amount but H4895, and surplus 147gr pulled bullets loaded on a progressive press. At 100 yards they grouped pretty good given the ammo. Then At 200 it opened way up. I'm wondering if this bullet just doesn't stabilize after 100 yards worth a hoot.

That said, I have about 300 150Smk's and a bunch of 4895 that I want to try to see how it shoots at 200+ yards. If ya have any results for this combo I'd love to hear it.

So you're using milsurp brass, pulled fmj military bullets, don't remember how much powder you used, and you're wondering why 200 yd accuracy sucks?

LOL

You're getting about as much as you're going to get with that kind of ammunition

 

[bdubmkg]

So you're using milsurp brass, pulled fmj military bullets, don't remember how much powder you used, and you're wondering why 200 yd accuracy sucks?

LOL

You're getting about as much as you're going to get with that kind of ammunition

I'm sure I could dig up my powder charge. I made this to duplicate mil loads for my garand. I'm wondering what is causing it to open up, not just a blanket " oh your load sucks" post. If it's grouping pretty good at 100, why is it opening up that much at 200? Is the bullet design cuasing it? Is it a velocity issue?

 

[Rocketvapor]

Shoot some more. Looks like a flier in the .30-06/200yd.

 

[.505gibbs]

I'm sure I could dig up my powder charge. I made this to duplicate mil loads for my garand. I'm wondering what is causing it to open up, not just a blanket " oh your load sucks" post. If it's grouping pretty good at 100, why is it opening up that much at 200? Is the bullet design cuasing it? Is it a velocity issue?

I wasn’t being a smart ass when I said that was “pretty good.” You mentioned you loaded it to duplicate the load for your m1 garand and loaded it 4895, I’m betting your powder charge is somewhere in the 45 to 47 grain range. That leaves a lot of room for powder to go wherever it wants in the case leading to high es and sd numbers. Using pulled 147 grain bullets and Greek milsurp brass I would bet money your es numbers are over 100 fps. Not because of loading practices but because that is what you get with this combination.

 

[bdubmkg]

Shoot some more. Looks like a flier in the .30-06/200yd.

I had a similar issue the first time I went out, this is the second time. I had three on top of each other, then some would be an inch off. That made more sense to me of a crappy round. But then I go out again, and get good 100 yard groups, but then crap 200

I wasn’t being a smart ass when I said that was “pretty good.” You mentioned you loaded it to duplicate the load for your m1 garand and loaded it 4895, I’m betting your powder charge is somewhere in the 45 to 47 grain range. That leaves a lot of room for powder to go wherever it wants in the case leading to high es and sd numbers. Using pulled 147 grain bullets and Greek milsurp brass I would bet money your es numbers are over 100 fps. Not because of loading practices but because that is what you get with this combination.

I'm thinking the same with the weight. I know that the 147s have quite a bit of weight variations sometimes. Which leads me to believe that it could be the bullets. I read elsewhere that the 147s really start to destabilize out past 200yards or under a particular velocity. I've never experienced a round that grouped good at 100, but trashed out past that. I'm just curious as to what would be causing that.

 

[308pirate]

I'm sure I could dig up my powder charge. I made this to duplicate mil loads for my garand. I'm wondering what is causing it to open up, not just a blanket " oh your load sucks" post. If it's grouping pretty good at 100, why is it opening up that much at 200? Is the bullet design cuasing it? Is it a velocity issue?

You are shooting cheap, bulk bullets. They are generally not as uniform in weight distribution, runout and cylindricity as match bullets. Which means that when they spin they develop deviations from the line of flight and end up in a larger group.

Yes, inaccuracies that hardly manifest themselves at 100 yards increase exponentially beyond.

I am honestly surprised you don't know this.

It has nothing to do with the fact that they weight 147 grains. It has everything to do with the fact that those bullets are designed to be cheap to make for high volume machine gun ammunition, and not for use in rifles where high accuracy is required.

 

[smoothy8500]

Hmmmm, maybe it's not the ammo, it's a problem with your fundamentals....

 

[bdubmkg]

You are shooting cheap, bulk bullets. They are generally not as uniform in weight distribution, runout and cylindricity as match bullets. Which means that when they spin they develop deviations from the line of flight and end up in a larger group.

Yes, inaccuracies that hardly manifest themselves at 100 yards increase exponentially beyond.

I am honestly surprised you don't know this.

It has nothing to do with the fact that they weight 147 grains. It has everything to do with the fact that those bullets are designed to be cheap to make for high volume machine gun ammunition, and not for use in rifles where high accuracy is required.

I'm fully aware, maybe I was just expecting some profound knowledge to be poured out upon me... or maybe I'm just wayyyy over thinking this. It's my assumption, based off never having run into this before, that the accuracy issue would present itself at 100 more I guess. On the flip side, I'm happy with the results given the combo of parts for this round at 100.

 

[308pirate]

I'm fully aware

No, it really doesn't seem like it.

 

[bdubmkg]

Hmmmm, maybe it's not the ammo, it's a problem with your fundamentals....

I wouldn't disagree with ya, but once you look at the same 200yard picture, the right target is with my 6.5. And other that the top hole, which I knew I effed up on, the group is solid (for me) given that I was aiming at the point of the diamond. Maybe I totally botched it by happenstance with only that rifle or round... but probably not.

 

[hlee]

Ok, so there are 6 holes in the 6.5 target. Assuming all 6 are one group, it is no better than the group from the 30-06. Are you trying to shop the same bullet from both rifles? That’s not going to work out too well. Then again, if f the 6.5 load is the best you have, maybe the 30-06 load is hampered by something other than the bullet, brass, or powder charge…

 

[BCP]

Combination of technique and components.

 

[spife7980]

Shoot something that can be described as “match” in any manner and shoot a bunch of em.
You’ll soon find out that you likely shoot better than your current results yet also discover that you don’t shoot as well as you hope. But you’ll never be as good as you hope if you’re ability is beyond your components.
Cheap bullets that then get punched and pulled won’t help you beyond making noise.

 

[bdubmkg]

Ok, so there are 6 holes in the 6.5 target. Assuming all 6 are one group, it is no better than the group from the 30-06. Are you trying to shop the same bullet from both rifles? That’s not going to work out too well. Then again, if f the 6.5 load is the best you have, maybe the 30-06 load is hampered by something other than the bullet, brass, or powder charge…

The one hole on the very bottom with the 6.5, and the two in the tape is the drop difference when I put my surpressor on. That's why I didn't include those when I talked about it. I accounted for the bad shot on the 6.5 page.

 

[Haney]

Is this the rig you are using ?

 

[bdubmkg]

View attachment 8239189
Is this the rig you are using ?

Yes.