I am going to be reloading bullets for my new 30-06 setup, and had a few questions. First off what grain bullet is good for this shooting 200-600 yards and eventually 1000? and little why? From the research I have done so far it seems like 180 GR. is a good way to go. Is this so?
- Thread starter Cfl Mike
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Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
check out the reloading depot thread. majority of guys are using 208amax with H4350, RL22 and also some are using RL17 and H4831
Right now I'm trying to do some load development at H4350 with lapua brass and 175SMK
check out the reloading depot thread. majority of guys are using 208amax with H4350, RL22 and also some are using RL17 and H4831
Right now I'm trying to do some load development at H4350 with lapua brass and 175SMK
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
I am shooting Berger 175 VLD hunting bullets in a 1:10 twist 23" barrel to right at 900yds.....as far as I've got to shoot. Lapua brass and Ramshot Hunter is what I'm using. I think anything from 175 to 190 in a VLD configuration makes a nice long range 30/06 bullet. Several guys on here are shooting very heavy for distance...208 a max with good results.
I am shooting Berger 175 VLD hunting bullets in a 1:10 twist 23" barrel to right at 900yds.....as far as I've got to shoot. Lapua brass and Ramshot Hunter is what I'm using. I think anything from 175 to 190 in a VLD configuration makes a nice long range 30/06 bullet. Several guys on here are shooting very heavy for distance...208 a max with good results.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
Ramshot Hunter 57.7g, Lapua brass, Federal 210M primers
Ramshot Hunter 57.7g, Lapua brass, Federal 210M primers
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
I will take delivery of my tactical 30-06 in a few days. It is my plan to use nothing lighter than a 190SMK and will likely settle in with the 210 SMK or the 208 AMax. I have 190's and 208's on the shelf now ready to test.
With the extra horsepower the '06 brings to the table over the 308, might as well put it to good use with more weight to reach farther. If you want distance don't obsess about speed.
I will take delivery of my tactical 30-06 in a few days. It is my plan to use nothing lighter than a 190SMK and will likely settle in with the 210 SMK or the 208 AMax. I have 190's and 208's on the shelf now ready to test.
With the extra horsepower the '06 brings to the table over the 308, might as well put it to good use with more weight to reach farther. If you want distance don't obsess about speed.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
Try Berger 185 VLD's with H4350 with F210M primers. Most 30-06's that I've played with shoots excellent with this combo.
Try Berger 185 VLD's with H4350 with F210M primers. Most 30-06's that I've played with shoots excellent with this combo.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
I think the new 230g Berger Hybrid might be perfect for the .30-06/300WM/300WSM.
I wish I had more information on release date and BC numbers though.
I think the new 230g Berger Hybrid might be perfect for the .30-06/300WM/300WSM.
I wish I had more information on release date and BC numbers though.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the new 230g Berger Hybrid might be perfect for the .30-06/300WM/300WSM.
I wish I had more information on release date and BC numbers though. </div></div>
that is one heavy bullet for -06. I wonder what speeds that'll come out at.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kyreloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the new 230g Berger Hybrid might be perfect for the .30-06/300WM/300WSM.
I wish I had more information on release date and BC numbers though. </div></div>
that is one heavy bullet for -06. I wonder what speeds that'll come out at.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
Loading for distance can cause some confusion.
While lighter bullets should start out faster, and heavier bullets should arrive with more velocity; neither factor, by itself, is the complete answer.
Drop and drift are largely a product of flight duration, or Time Of Flight (TOF). IMHO the bullet which arrives in the least amount of time should have the better drop and drift characteristics.
Applying an accurate muzzle velocity and BC to a trusted Ballistic Calc should derive a reasonably accurate TOF.
I have also found some significant deviations in real performance vs calculated performance, notably when shooting lighter bullets through fast twists over trajectories that generate a lot of arc. They perform as if they are encountering excessive yaw, increasing actual vs calculated drag and thereby increasing observed drop.
Bullet impacts indicate a nose high attitude as opposed to a nose on attitude, but they all seem to impact nose upward, and dispersion is not indicative of a random yaw orientation. If I had to pin it down, I'd say they were failing to orient their nose to accomodate the arc of trajectory and responding as if they are pitching up relative to the trajectory curve.
These observations were the result of firing about 100 shots at 1000yd with a .260 Rem chambered 28" 1:8" barrel using Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tips. the only comment Nosler would suggest was that they don't recommend using those bullets at such longer diatances. While I accept their advice, I find it somewhat lacking in terms of a logical explanation.
Perhaps someone more adept at this stuff will chime in here.
I believe the performance discrepancy points out the different effects of static stability (the gyroscopic stability of a spinning top), and dynamic stability (the aerodynamic stability of an arrow).
IMHO this favors a bullet with a more forward center of mass, which should allow it to respond more effectively to dynamic stability effects; looking maybe like something which is constructed more like a copper solid in its rear half (or maybe something even lighter, like an aluminum rear half core), and a jacketed lead bullet in its forward half. This is untutored speculation and may ignore some gyroscopic or supersonic drag factors I'm missing somewhere along the way
In response to the original question, I don't really think (on the theoretical basis) that the '06 suffers so much from employing adequate (but toward the lighter end of the weight spectrum) bullets, like a decent 165-175gr VLD. I would suggest keeping the twist slow enough, like a 1:12" twist rate. It is also my observation that once the bullet weights get bigger than this, the recoil of the '06 becomes sufficiently significant to impair effective practice due to added fatigue.
Greg
Loading for distance can cause some confusion.
While lighter bullets should start out faster, and heavier bullets should arrive with more velocity; neither factor, by itself, is the complete answer.
Drop and drift are largely a product of flight duration, or Time Of Flight (TOF). IMHO the bullet which arrives in the least amount of time should have the better drop and drift characteristics.
Applying an accurate muzzle velocity and BC to a trusted Ballistic Calc should derive a reasonably accurate TOF.
I have also found some significant deviations in real performance vs calculated performance, notably when shooting lighter bullets through fast twists over trajectories that generate a lot of arc. They perform as if they are encountering excessive yaw, increasing actual vs calculated drag and thereby increasing observed drop.
Bullet impacts indicate a nose high attitude as opposed to a nose on attitude, but they all seem to impact nose upward, and dispersion is not indicative of a random yaw orientation. If I had to pin it down, I'd say they were failing to orient their nose to accomodate the arc of trajectory and responding as if they are pitching up relative to the trajectory curve.
These observations were the result of firing about 100 shots at 1000yd with a .260 Rem chambered 28" 1:8" barrel using Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tips. the only comment Nosler would suggest was that they don't recommend using those bullets at such longer diatances. While I accept their advice, I find it somewhat lacking in terms of a logical explanation.
Perhaps someone more adept at this stuff will chime in here.
I believe the performance discrepancy points out the different effects of static stability (the gyroscopic stability of a spinning top), and dynamic stability (the aerodynamic stability of an arrow).
IMHO this favors a bullet with a more forward center of mass, which should allow it to respond more effectively to dynamic stability effects; looking maybe like something which is constructed more like a copper solid in its rear half (or maybe something even lighter, like an aluminum rear half core), and a jacketed lead bullet in its forward half. This is untutored speculation and may ignore some gyroscopic or supersonic drag factors I'm missing somewhere along the way
In response to the original question, I don't really think (on the theoretical basis) that the '06 suffers so much from employing adequate (but toward the lighter end of the weight spectrum) bullets, like a decent 165-175gr VLD. I would suggest keeping the twist slow enough, like a 1:12" twist rate. It is also my observation that once the bullet weights get bigger than this, the recoil of the '06 becomes sufficiently significant to impair effective practice due to added fatigue.
Greg
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
Well 180gr bullets was kind of the lowest I wanted to go (it would have been nice to use this so me and my buddy who shoot .308 could throw down on bullets together). I guess I will look into that 200+ gr. stuff.
So no one has any comments about using varget powder for this?
Well 180gr bullets was kind of the lowest I wanted to go (it would have been nice to use this so me and my buddy who shoot .308 could throw down on bullets together). I guess I will look into that 200+ gr. stuff.
So no one has any comments about using varget powder for this?
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
Varget with the heavies in the .30-06 wouldnt be my first choice. I suspect you would get better velocities with better case fill with slower powders in the .30-06 with the heavies.
Hodgdon lists with 180g bullets, H4350 at 57.5g with a velocity of 2798 fps. Varget max with 180s is 47g for 2668 fps. In my experience, the closer I get to 100% case capacity, the better my ES/SD for velocities tend to be.
Looking at the loading data, it looks like H4350 or H4831 makes more sense than Varget for the heavies.
(FYI-H4350 is faster than Varget with 155s too, 3038fps-2958fps max velocities)
Varget with the heavies in the .30-06 wouldnt be my first choice. I suspect you would get better velocities with better case fill with slower powders in the .30-06 with the heavies.
Hodgdon lists with 180g bullets, H4350 at 57.5g with a velocity of 2798 fps. Varget max with 180s is 47g for 2668 fps. In my experience, the closer I get to 100% case capacity, the better my ES/SD for velocities tend to be.
Looking at the loading data, it looks like H4350 or H4831 makes more sense than Varget for the heavies.
(FYI-H4350 is faster than Varget with 155s too, 3038fps-2958fps max velocities)
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
I have a 26" barreled 30-06 and it launches the 178 Amax with 57.5gr of H4350 at a comfortable 2925-2940fps from Win brass. It has proven itself without issue at 1300yd.
I also have been shooting the 208 Amax with RL22 at 2825fps and with H4831sc it's 2800fps. This load has been used in the winter at TVP (RL22 is temp sensitive and I only got 2700fps from it in 20F weather).
Hitting 1 foot squares at 1000-1200yd was not difficult, and I connected at the 1740yd target with it on round 4 and 6. At that point the bullet was subsonic for appx 300yd and the wind in the middle of an early march storm was eating me alive. The group was a little under MOA vertically and about 4 MOA left to right.
The 30-06 with a 10tw and heavy, modern bullets with good powder makes for a serious long range platform.
Varget is not the answer for this case unless you're pushing bullets under 150gr, the powder speed is just too fast to get optimal speeds from it. With medium weight bullets in the 170-190gr range, Varget gives up about 200fps over H4350 in my rifle.
With RL22 I can push a 178 Amax over 3000fps, with Varget it is lucky to hit 2700 before pressure signs stop it.
I have a 26" barreled 30-06 and it launches the 178 Amax with 57.5gr of H4350 at a comfortable 2925-2940fps from Win brass. It has proven itself without issue at 1300yd.
I also have been shooting the 208 Amax with RL22 at 2825fps and with H4831sc it's 2800fps. This load has been used in the winter at TVP (RL22 is temp sensitive and I only got 2700fps from it in 20F weather).
Hitting 1 foot squares at 1000-1200yd was not difficult, and I connected at the 1740yd target with it on round 4 and 6. At that point the bullet was subsonic for appx 300yd and the wind in the middle of an early march storm was eating me alive. The group was a little under MOA vertically and about 4 MOA left to right.
The 30-06 with a 10tw and heavy, modern bullets with good powder makes for a serious long range platform.
Varget is not the answer for this case unless you're pushing bullets under 150gr, the powder speed is just too fast to get optimal speeds from it. With medium weight bullets in the 170-190gr range, Varget gives up about 200fps over H4350 in my rifle.
With RL22 I can push a 178 Amax over 3000fps, with Varget it is lucky to hit 2700 before pressure signs stop it.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
So I am assuming you guys are still continually using and would suggest this H4350?
If so I guess I aught to look into it.
So I am assuming you guys are still continually using and would suggest this H4350?
If so I guess I aught to look into it.
Re: 30-06 bullet opinions and advice?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cfl Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I am assuming you guys are still continually using and would suggest this H4350?
If so I guess I aught to look into it. </div></div>
Rl 22, h4350 and h4831sc
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cfl Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I am assuming you guys are still continually using and would suggest this H4350?
If so I guess I aught to look into it. </div></div>
Rl 22, h4350 and h4831sc
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