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30-06

Cubed333

Cubed333

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 11, 2011
51
0
Hobart Aus
#1
Hi,
Been a prowler for a while and had a .308 ordered with tikka but the config of a heavy barrel for some reason was a bit out of the ordinary and 6 months later and still no news I jumped ship and went the 30-06.
I initially bought it for deer hunting, mainly sambar.
I've been doing a fair bit of research as until I walked into the shop had not really heard much about it other than it was a 30-06 and packed a punch.
In hunting circles its much loved and provides a great amount of variety and flexibility.
I've done some searching on here and havent been able to find much about it other than alot of them for sale...
After shooting it today for its first sight in, i'm very impressed with the accuracy and the little amount of recoil.
It was blowing over 60km/h where I was shooting right to left gusting considerably and at 100 yards in failing light it put the bullet( 158gr federal) on target 3 shots in a row. ( I just discovered the 5 shots in a row thing with photos so will post again with pics to verify great accuracy.)
So after that long winded intro, why cant I find much info for it in the sniping and long distance shooting arena?
Cheers
Deepsouth
 
#2
Re: 30-06

The 30-06 was the standard U.S. militay cartidge from the early 1900's until the early 1960's when the 7.62 NATO (known in the U.S. as the .308 Winchester) was adopted as the standard military cartridge. So, for the last 50 years the focus has been on the 7.62/.308.

The 30-06 is an excellent round and chambered in the '03 Springfield rifle was the sniper rifle of choice for a long time.

There are numerous excellent loads available for the 30-06 from very light 110 grain varmint rounds to 220 grain rounds for such games as moose and elk.

The ballistics of the 7.62 and 30-06 are very close. Without splitting hairs, one could reasonably argue that they're, for most functional purposes, pretty much the same.

The .308/30-06 argument has been the stuff of many campfire side and bar side arguments for generations.

But the basic answer to your question is that the majority of tactical rifles are built around a common caliber, and that being the 7.62x51 NATO round.

It's a good load. Get ammo, go shoot.
 
#3
Re: 30-06

+1 to Kill Spade 13 post. The 30-06 is an excellent and capable round. I have an old 1903 that is still chambered in this round and it will stay that way. The 30-06 will give you a little more velocity from the 30-06 over the 308. It seems that in tactical circles long action are frowned upon thus you don't see 30-06 much in them but personally I like the round and would not be scared to use it.
 
#4
Re: 30-06

I think you did OK, as long as the recoil is not an issue. It is with me, but I still prefer the .30-'06 over the .308. The recoil of the '06 is very tolerable if one remembers to treat it with respect and hold onto it properly; and honestly, the .308 doesn't seem to kick all that much less for me anyway.

The 7.62x51 NATO/.308 Win was intended as a means to re-equip the military with a cartridge that could mostly duplicate the .30-'06's battlefield performance, but allow less bulk and weight for ammunition carry.

The result was a mixed success.

Longer range performance was not spectacular, but the military equivocated this by declaring that long range performance was no longer as important on the battlefield.

The debate has been on ever since.

For me, it's not a debate. I own no .308's. Their place has been taken over by the .260 in my gun cabinet. Meanwhile, I own two .30-'06 hunters and a Garand.

I do not feel deprived of any sort of capability by my lack of .308's.

Greg

Edited to take note of the post which follows mine. I agree in principle with that post.

I also think that for a cartridge like the .308, whose LR performance may be marginal, that 100fps of additional velocity can be a deal maker. That or trade it off to take advantage of the '06's somewhat better ability to drive the heavier bullet to the desired distance.

This is, as suggested, not a big difference; but I do think it can be rather an important one.
 
#5
Re: 30-06

Copy cats and availability. As the previous posts state. You'll get a hundred fps with the '06. People say that there is a greater availability of surplus ammo for the .3098...and it is true, but the accuracy buffs go for the high end ammo and components so that is a dead issue. The major ammo companies load a greater range of match ammo for the .308, since they are hoping for a military contract.
 
#6
Re: 30-06

Lately the '06 has turned out to be my "most shot" caliber. Not because its better then the 308, but because I've gotten more into CMP Vintage Rifle Shooting.

I like Garands, but lately I've been having more fun with my 1917 Eddystone. Something about working the bolt in rapid fire with that old "cock on closing" action.

I put together a Model 70 Vietnam Era Sniper Rifle Clone in '06 that is rapidly becoming my go to 1000 yard match rifle. Tiny bit faster then the 308 but easier on my old bones then my 300 WM 1000 yard gun.
 
#7
Re: 30-06

Honestly I just don't think you are digging deep enough in your research. No doubt there is more information on the 30-06 than any other cartridge known to man on the net. Maybe not as much on this forum. But there is still a ton of 30-06 information on the 30-06 in this forum. Tom.
 
#8
Re: 30-06

I have at least 12 rifles in .30-06, mostly Garands and 03A3's with a couple M70's thrown for hunting. It is "our" .303 British. You can't go wrong with this caliber and if I had to choose one rifle, a .30-06 would be my first or second choice.

AG
 
#11
Re: 30-06

I myself and my family have been hunting with 30.06 cal. for decades. I've found it to be a great all around round for practically anything here in Alaska. That being said, I may not trust it for a Kodiak Grizz, but I don't hunt those big ass bruins so don't need anything more.
 
#12
Re: 30-06

.308 out groups a '06 at 600m and under.
A '06 is a pointless step between .308 and .300WM.
I own a 1903 and a Garand but have 0 interest in a modern "thaughty ought six".
 
#13
Re: 30-06

Thanks heaps for the info guys, it seems that the capability is definately there, but more stick to the .308 as its a military and leo used weapon and most who come from the military and leo keep to the .308 to maintain consistancy.

@greg langelius, I am pretty pleased with the rifle, I was thankfully let down by the lack of felt recoil. It was only a 158gr but I wont be going much more than 165gr maybe a 180gr anyways.
My sister who has only shot a .223 before had a shoot of it and she handled it fine without any issues so I'm plugging the tikka at least for that.
smile.gif

I am 110kg and solid so I wont be having too many issues with recoil.

@hogghead, I searched under 30-06 and went through 8 pages of search results and very little was said about performance, tweaking or even use in the snipers arena. I will however keep searching.
On the net i've spent at least 8hrs reading and searching about hunting loads and hunting applications but other than a mention it was used in the military and its history there, there hasn't been much said about it's use outside of that period.

@ghogs nightmare, I am definately planning on reloading, i've got all the generic reloading data, so i'm looking forwarding to doing some load working and take it from there.
I plan to shoot out to 600m as that's the longest distance I have to shoot at on the farm, although I have heard there is a 1000yard range somewhere up north which i'm keen to try. As far as reloading goes we are limited to ADI(they make or are made by hodgdon) or winchester powders but we can get pretty much every projectile manufacturer.
Primers are either cci or federal.
Cases are only remington or winchester or the spent cartridges from factory ammo.

Again many thanks to all the replies and I'll post some pics and reviews at least of my first impressions and getting the rifle setup.
 
#14
Re: 30-06

The 30-06 is a handloader's round, for LR precision. Not much in the way of factory precision ammo, and 168gr FGMM is lame.

The short version is this,

With a 26" bbl, you can get 208AMax/210VLD to 2800 fps via RL22. At 22" bbl, you can get 2700+ fps with the same.

You can go to JBM and figure out what that means in terms of downrange ballistics. In short, it will smoke the 308 FGMM offerings like a cheap cigar.

The 30-06 splits the difference in case volume between the 308, and the 300 WinMag. When handloaded, it can also split the difference in velocities.
 
#15
Re: 30-06

The 30/06 is my go to for both hunting at any distance I shoot on anything but varmints and steel to 1000 yds or so. Versatile, and a still easy shooting for the gains over my .308 I think its the best all around cartridge for mid to large NAmerican game made. Opinions are as varied as the number of calibers available.......I had mine built on a Manners T2 and it is in atight race with my heavy built .243 as the most shot rifle I own. You made a good choice in my opinion. Trendy rounds come and go and the '06 remains popular for good reason.
 
#16
Re: 30-06

Thanks montana marinewill definately look at the amax, i was surpsied to see such a high bc value.
I had a look at some of the bergers as they have some high bc values on their lighter values but nothing like that amax.
ggmanning, I was quite sceptical about it but since researching and the feedback here I'm definately pleased with the choice. I will be investigating its lr potential on target for sure and even some varmint just for a change of pace to give the. 223 a rest.
/@ 7.62gunr I would have thought grouping was more a function of the shooter and rifle rather than the caliber? Or does the higher velocities help out to 600?
 
#18
Re: 30-06

My 14 y/o, 110-lb Grand Daughter got her C/F indoc earlier this year, and while she liked all the rifles up to and including the '06, she said she'll wait awhile before stepping up from the 20ga.

The 168 FGMM works well for my hunters and Garand at SR/MR distances, but I prefer an LC M72 clone for beyond 600yd. For hunting, I use the various Core-Lokt factory loadings.

Greg
 
#20
Re: 30-06

I've spent several years in Texas and Alaska, and my "go-to" hunting rifle was and is my rem 700 30.06. I've shot feral hogs, whitetail and mule deer, moose, black and brown bear, and Elk with this and have been completely satisfied with its performance ( I use Barnes bullets for the large/dangerous game and sierra for everything else).

When I first got to Alaska ( spent 13 years there) I thought I needed more gun, I bought a .300 win mag,and a .338 win mag, but always took the 30.06 with me..I ended up selling the others and still have and use my trusty 30.06....It's very accurate and with the right bullet it has performed very well.

One could go on and on about ballistics etc. Regardless, the 30.06 as a hunting cartridge is very hard to beat..
 
#21
Re: 30-06

Thanks for that 7.63gunr, very interesting reading
smile.gif
He made some interesting points regarding barrel drift during the shot which I did notice when zeroing, my reticle finish was about 2inches off center after each shot although the shot hit the mark its interesting as in long range shooting having to come back on target could cost time...Something to work on
laugh.gif

I'll have a serious go at trying to tame it out to 600 just because I can now
wink.gif

Hey flynn, yeah as far as a hunting cartridge goes in my reading the 30-06 has definately been one of the most highly regarded and go to cartridges out there. I'll be giving a right old hammering tomorrow after work so will post on the results.
Again many many thanks to all the comments and information, its been a great incentive to dig deep and really get to know the cartridge, if nothing else i'll be an encyclopedia of 30-06 theoretical knowledge haha
 
#22
Re: 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deepsouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">/@ 7.62gunr I would have thought grouping was more a function of the shooter and rifle rather than the caliber? Or does the higher velocities help out to 600? </div></div>

Your right. Cartridge design has little to do with accuracy. But the shooter has a metric butt ton (technical term)to do with accuracy. I have had this debate with many people and some simply refuse to see it. But a rifles accuracy is determined by the quality of workmanship in it and the shooter behind it. When the shooter and rifle are up to speed then case design will not show up in groupings.
 
#23
Re: 30-06

Maybe, Longshot, maybe. The benchresters may disagree with that. Witness the 6mmBR and other choices they have developed. Supposedly that is why the short magnums were developed,to give more uniform ignition due to the shorter powder column. Not my area of expertise, however.
 
#24
Re: 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe, Longshot, maybe. The benchresters may disagree with that. Witness the 6mmBR and other choices they have developed. Supposedly that is why the short magnums were developed,to give more uniform ignition due to the shorter powder column. Not my area of expertise, however. </div></div>

Yep the BR crowd is who always has a differing opinion. But if you look at things objectively then they really have no leg to stand on, the facts are with me. The short mags and what not were designed for a more efficient use of powder not an increase in accuracy. I draw my conclusions from this:

1) I can call any number of top tier smiths and get them to build me a rifle on a long or short action with the same accuracy guarantee. And from the numerous discussions I've had with custom gun makers a simple fact remains while certain chambers are inherently more difficult to machine then others, any chambering can be machined to very precise tolerances given the right equipment and time.

2) BR and F-class records don't provide proof of better accuracy and to try to take those records away from the shooter and give credit to the cartridge defies logic. These groupings were also shoot in dynamic environments thus they are only representative on who the best shooter was on a given day.

3) I've challenged numerous BR guys to provide me with measurable evidence (other the groupings) that shows where short and fat is better then long and skinny. And I have yet to get that data, simply because it doesn't exist.

I know there will be at least one BR guy pop up in this thread and argue my points, there always is. But the three facts listed above really aren't debatable.
 
#25
Re: 30-06

@ Longshot38
You make some great points,I dont know if you read the article posted by 7.64gunr but there is data there at least from his scores and x shots which does conclusively show that out to 600 the .308 did have better scores.


The 30-06 does provide a larger sampling area, however the samples do indicate at least for similar amounts the .308 to be ahead however marginally it is.


Now however if its a mental thing considering the pro shooter changing to .308 from 30-06, only the shooter can say.
He does make some valid points re barrel hop, however being new to the precision shooting arena my knowledge on barrel hop is zilch other than I have experienced it. I did read a thing before about muzzlebreaks and body position being able to tame it so it could again be the shooter.

What it does come back to though if you look at the data he represents, in a real world situation and application, .3 of a percent means nothing. So at least for application in real world situations there is no real difference as both will get you on target and extremely accurately up to 600 and for distances past say 600 the 30-06 has the edge due to better bc and bullet weights as well as long range force.


http://www.accurateshooter.com/ballistics/heavy-bullets-for-long-range/
Read that article and it pretty much gives the edge to the 30-06 for long range.


Overall as always it will be peaches for some and oranges for others...
Thanks for the input and feedback, I'm learning heaps!
 
#26
Re: 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deepsouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@ Longshot38
You make some great points,I dont know if you read the article posted by 7.64gunr but there is data there at least from his scores and x shots which does conclusively show that out to 600 the .308 did have better scores. </div></div>

Back to my #2. Scores and grouping don't show anything other then how well the shooter was/is doing on a given day. All the groupings in the world account for nothing to show case accuracy potential for case design. The only way to come close to being able to prove that case design is the winning factor is to take the human element out of this. Example:

Take two rifles with chambers cut to the same tolerances both of which are lock down in a static environment such as a indoor range. Then fire off numerous groupings.

Without such a test then no amount of groupings will ever be able to indicate that any particular case design is better then another.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deepsouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What it does come back to though if you look at the data he represents, in a real world situation and application, .3 of a percent means nothing. So at least for application in real world situations there is no real difference as both will get you on target and extremely accurately up to 600 and for distances past say 600 the 30-06 has the edge due to better bc and bullet weights as well as long range force. </div></div>

The 30-06 and 308 share the same bullet selection. Thus better BC and bullet weight thing doesn't hold water. The 30-06 can push the heavies a little faster but there are guys running the 208 AMAX out of 308 now and doing well. Simple fact of the matter is that is debate has been going on for a long time and will continue to go for much longer.

As I stated previously I have had this discussion many times before. And I know there are those that disagree with me, some of which are big names in the shooting world. But I am a slave to logic and scientific fact. Thus I stick to what I can definitively prove and not what can easily be debated. And I always come back to my original point. The accuracy of a rifle is determined by the quality of the work that goes into it and the shooter behind it. If you place two properly machined and constructed rifles side-by-side and remove the variables then case design becomes irrelevant.
 
#27
Re: 30-06

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 30-06 is a handloader's round, for LR precision. Not much in the way of factory precision ammo, and 168gr FGMM is lame.

The short version is this,

With a 26" bbl, you can get 208AMax/210VLD to 2800 fps via RL22. At 22" bbl, you can get 2700+ fps with the same.

You can go to JBM and figure out what that means in terms of downrange ballistics. <span style="font-weight: bold">In short, it will smoke the 308 FGMM offerings like a cheap cigar.</span>

The 30-06 splits the difference in case volume between the 308, and the 300 WinMag. When handloaded, it can also split the difference in velocities. </div></div>

That is gospel. /\/\/\

The bold text is sig line material.

If you want an easy, economical shooter, go .308. If you compare factory loads in both, or handloads in both, you cannot argue these facts. If you need to transfer as much KE as possible with less wind drift, the 30-06 outperforms the .308 at any range.
 
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