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30 cal 240SMK

B

BrettSass844

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 18, 2009
693
3
41
Germantown, OHIO
I am debating over a few different calibers for my next build. I am going to start getting components together in a couple months. The 240 SMK definitely has my interest. Either a 300WM or 300 ultra. I would like to obtain a velocity of 2800 to 2900 FPS. I would be willing to run a 30" barrel if necessary. Is anyone running these 240s with good results? What is you COAL, velocity, powder, brass and so on? I would like the option of also being able to shoot the 208 Amax and 220 SMK. is this possible with a 300 WM? Also what would be the expected barrel life be on each cartridge pushing these loads? I have researched this quite a bit but mostly coming up with guys that tried them in a 24" or 26" 300 WM and gave up due to lack of velocity. Thanks guys.

Brett
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

I have thought about trying the 240 SMK for a while, but I can only get a 220 SMK to about 2800 fps in a 28" 1:10" tw Kreiger with my 300WM.
To outperform the 208 A-Max, or 210 VLD you would need to push the 240 faster than would be possible in a 300WM, or even a 300 RUM.
The Hornady 225 looked promising too, but after some research with JBM, etc. I can't get it going fast enough to outperform the 208, or 210's @ 2950 that I am getting with them.
In .308 cal, the 208, & 210 rule, until you get up into the huge over-bored cartridges like the 300 Hulk, etc. My $.02
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Bigwheels pretty much nailed it. The 240 makes no sense unless you're shooting something with enough powder capacity to tear 208's apart. For all it's weight and length it really has no better real world BC.

The Hornady 225 is a SMALL step in the right direction. Nobody has really stepped to the plate and given us the .30 cal equivalent of the 180 Berger in 7mm or the 300 Berger in .338.

The 300WM with the 208 is has FAR more potential than most people realize. Especially if you go to a 28 or 30" barrel. I have a 22" and am running 2870 and getting very good brass life. I'm loaded to 3.650", so I have extra case capacity. But this chamber in a 28 or 30 should be good for excess of 3000FPS. As it is I dabble quite well past 2000 yds. What more do you need?

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

If you're thinking 7mm, you might consider 7/300WSM. It's got more case capacity.

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">I tried the 240's in a 30x8mm Rem Mag 32" barrel 10 twist. Do not remember the velocity but the 10 twist would NOT st</span>abilized them.

Dave</span>
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Does anyone know what the expected availability on the 208s is in the upcoming months? I have heard they are hard to come by. Also what velocity could I get out of a 300wsm with 28 to 30" barrel running the 208s assuming it is built on a short action using the alpha mags. I believe they allow a COAL of 2.975. Thanks
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

The 7/300 WSM doesn't have more capacity, it has a loner neck and a touch less capacity than the 7 WSM by about 3-4gr but shoots everything almost exactly the same muzzle velocity for a supposed throat life benefit. I am building one as we speak so I have not verified the bbl life yet myself.

A 300 WM with 208/210 class bullets is excellent, if you haven't committed to it yet then take a look at the 30-375 Ruger, aka 300 Acc. Intl. To get a boost in speed witbhout going to a Weatherby or RUM case.

The bigger 7's are a lot of fun to shoot though, my medium sized 280 was a lot of fun even at a mile.

The 240 SMK is a good bullet but aerodynamically it is rather piggish. The thing saving it is the mass, the form factor is mediocre at best. A 208 Amax shape at 240 weight would have a BC into the 0.72-0.73 realm
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

B.c isnt everything though the .711 b.c isnt bad either especially for a non VLD..Ive have shot well over a 1000 rounds of 240smk though a 300wm and shortly will be using the same bullet out of a 300norma mag.. Its a Very forgiving bullet design and the accuracy is absolutely phenominal.. This bullet has set more 1000k yard records than any other .30 cal bullets to date..I pushed these bullets anywhere from 2550 to 2800 fps out of 10 twist barrels and still shoots great.
The 300 norma mag is designed around this bullet and being extensively tested by SOC into the hundreds of thousands of rounds..Its already being fielded by some of the most elite with 240smks. this bullets is Extremely accurate. supersonic to over a mile, and hits very hard.
Most negative opinions of this bullet are from shooters with very little to no experience with this bullet.

Shalom
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 7/300 WSM doesn't have more capacity, it has a loner neck and a touch less capacity than the 7 WSM by about 3-4gr </div></div>

Thanks for correcting that Bohem. I guess I was mistaken. I hate internet lore. I try to be careful with my facts.

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

I think your idea of the .300 Ultra is a good choice for what you want to do. Brass is available most everywhere, no fire forming involved. The .300 Ultra case with the right twist rate and barrel length should be a worth while study. Sounds like a great project.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave inVa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'">I tried the 240's in a 30x8mm Rem Mag 32" barrel 10 twist. Do not remember the velocity but the 10 twist would NOT st</span>abilized them.

Dave</span> </div></div>

I and others that I have spoken with on this forum have had good experience with the 240 SMK in a 1 in 10 twist barrel. I spoke with Sierra and they stated that you needed a 1 in 9 twist barrel. I have not found this to be the case. I acquired a Rem Sendero chambered in 300 RUM with the factory 1 in 10. Behind Retumbo, and without stressing the brass at all I was getting about 2730 fps and consistently getting groups in the .5-.6" range. The barrel is the standard 26". More powder and a longer barrel and I am sure you could get into the 2800 range.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

The 240s stabilized fine and were .5 moa accurate at 2610 fps, from my 1/10 twist 30-06. They shot well, beyond 1000 yards.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zohan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The 300 norma mag is designed around this bullet and being extensively tested by SOC into the hundreds of thousands of rounds..Its already being fielded by some of the most elite with 240smks. </div></div>

Zohan,

This is the first I've heard of this. Not that I'm one of the guys they call to ask permission.
wink.gif
Is this an offshoot of the PSR? Are these one-off rifles or is this a semi-production effort and will this trickle down, thus giving the 300 Norma credence?

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

I can't say one way or another about SOCOM adoption or not enmass, but they are making 300 Norma Brass with 300 Norm stamped on the brass. I think the cartridge is here to stay.

JeffVN
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Interesting. What is the performance difference between this and the 30-375R (300 AI)?

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zohan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B.c isnt everything though the .711 b.c isnt bad either especially for a non VLD..

</div></div>

True, radar tested BC is ~ 0.645, not the Sierra published 0.711.

The bullet is very accurate and precision is not generally a question with them, just the efficiency of such a heavy design without the BC that COULD be realized with it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting. What is the performance difference between this and the 30-375R (300 AI)?

John </div></div>

The 300 AI doesn't have the oooomph that the 300 RUM or 300 Norma does, however, it does have very good barrel life compared to those cases. The Hornady data says that the 225's with the 300 AI should be in the 2900 range from factory loads in a 26" tube IIRC.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BrettSass844</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am debating over a few different calibers for my next build. I am going to start getting components together in a couple months. The 240 SMK definitely has my interest. Either a 300WM or 300 ultra. I would like to obtain a velocity of 2800 to 2900 FPS. I would be willing to run a 30" barrel if necessary. Is anyone running these 240s with good results? What is you COAL, velocity, powder, brass and so on? I would like the option of also being able to shoot the 208 Amax and 220 SMK. is this possible with a 300 WM? Also what would be the expected barrel life be on each cartridge pushing these loads? I have researched this quite a bit but mostly coming up with guys that tried them in a 24" or 26" 300 WM and gave up due to lack of velocity. Thanks guys.

Brett </div></div>

Just putting some info up for the curious.

In my version of the 30-375R.
Specs:
375R case
78 grains H-1000
240SMK
OAL 3.558"
Rem mag primers
2925 FPS out of a 30" 9 twist Krieger in the summer.

I've got about 1200 through the barrel and it still groups well.

The 240's do hit hard and leave a huge splat on steel.Very satisfying
grin.gif
Superbly accurate too. I'm thinking of switching over to the 220SMK just because of the price difference but I'll have to see how they compare to the 240's at ELR distances first.I'm crossing my fingers and hoping someone will bring higher BC bullets out for 2011.I wouldn't mind spending the extra money for some more BC.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking of switching over to the 220SMK just because of the price difference but I'll have to see how they compare to the 240's at ELR distances first.</div></div>

Steve,

I'm sure you posted this somewhere in our multiple crossing paths... but have you tried 208's in the 30-375R? I would think if they didn't disintegrate that they would give you the best elevation and wind (obvious... I know) but cheap!

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

I'm shooting 300WM now, but dropping to 7mm. Just can't beat the better traj with less recoil factors if you ask me.

Especially with the 7mm 200 grain ULD bullets- claimed BC of .88-.92

I'm building a 7mm-300win mag. More Capacity than a 7mm WSM or 7mmRM and I can still use my 300WM bushing dies. Better barrel life than a STW or RUM also...

I'd call Sierra bullet techs before you sell out to one bullet- the 240. I have heard their can be some serious fouling issues even with some premium barrels as they have quite long bearing surfaces. This is second hand knowledge though. I dang near set up my rifle,new barrel exclusively for the 240. But their were to many if's and could's and probably's for my taste especially in comparison to the ongoing 7mm day in day out SOLID successes. 7mm is consistently setting and breaking records right now in 1000 yard bench rest. I mean I love my 300WM- a classic but technology continually moves.

Plus a stout load in a WM to push a 240 to velocities that justify the projo is gonna be a heck of a recoiler. This does not constitute long profitable range sessions/trigger time....

I'd look heavily @ the performance of the new Berger 180 hybrid, the
189 Cauterucio VLD as well as the Wildcat bullets 200 ULD.

And if you stick with the more conventional 7mm's (Bergers) your gonna save yourself a good bit of change every time you pull the trigger in comparison to the 240's.

As far as chamberings: a straight .284 win will push a 180vld 3000 fps out of a 32" barrel. Moving up from there in fps, and down in barrel life is the WSM/RSAUM, 280 Ackley, 7mmRM for pretty standard stuff. (Sure there's the 7mmSTW & 7 RUM, but barrel life is stupid.)

The 7mmRM would be my choice if I were not trying to retain the use of my expensive 300WM dies and brass I already have on hand.

I mean really 30 cal is going the way of the dinosaur, regardless if the military is still using it or not. It's like a box truck. Industry keeps putting bigger and bigger motor in it to get more 0-100 performance. There comes a point where someone need to say why not an efficient _______ ? (enter the body shape of your favorite sports car)

To each his own, but this is how a poor boy decides how to spend a hard earned new barrel.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking of switching over to the 220SMK just because of the price difference but I'll have to see how they compare to the 240's at ELR distances first.</div></div>

Steve,

I'm sure you posted this somewhere in our multiple crossing paths... but have you tried 208's in the 30-375R? I would think if they didn't disintegrate that they would give you the best elevation and wind (obvious... I know) but cheap!

John </div></div>

I was going to order some recently but they were sold out everywhere.I'd have to single feed because of the throating of my rifle,which isn't what I'd prefer to do but not to big a deal.Next year I'll try some again with the H-1000.I had used other powders when I got the rifle years ago and wasn't able to get the speed.Also back then I thought the BC was .711 not the actual.647 with the 240's.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking of switching over to the 220SMK just because of the price difference but I'll have to see how they compare to the 240's at ELR distances first.</div></div>

Steve,

I'm sure you posted this somewhere in our multiple crossing paths... but have you tried 208's in the 30-375R? I would think if they didn't disintegrate that they would give you the best elevation and wind (obvious... I know) but cheap!

John </div></div>

I was going to order some recently but they were sold out everywhere.I'd have to single feed because of the throating of my rifle,which isn't what I'd prefer to do but not to big a deal.Next year I'll try some again with the H-1000.I had used other powders when I got the rifle years ago and wasn't able to get the speed.Also back then I thought the BC was .711 not the actual.647 with the 240's. </div></div>

I just know that using QL's predicted velocity for 63K psi from a 30" barrel yielded about 3050 to 3075 fps in my WM. I think that's conservative (except for throat wear, which will be anything but.
wink.gif
) . Punched into JBM gives some rather impressive ballistics. Like SS to over 2K yds. at my AO. Your rifle should be able to do that without breaking a sweat (you have a 28" tube?).

208's are starting to show up here and there. Apparently Hornady has begun to eke some out despite telling us they had slipped production out to Jan. I guess we can't trust the word we get out of the front office people. Then again, it is their prerogative to change their mind. How's that go? "they'll be here when they're here." Never truer than now.

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm shooting 300WM now, but dropping to 7mm. Just can't beat the better traj with less recoil factors if you ask me.

Especially with the 7mm 200 grain ULD bullets- claimed BC of .88-.92

I'm building a 7mm-300win mag. More Capacity than a 7mm WSM or 7mmRM and I can still use my 300WM bushing dies. Better barrel life than a STW or RUM also...

I'd call Sierra bullet techs before you sell out to one bullet- the 240. I have heard their can be some serious fouling issues even with some premium barrels as they have quite long bearing surfaces. This is second hand knowledge though. I dang near set up my rifle,new barrel exclusively for the 240. But their were to many if's and could's and probably's for my taste especially in comparison to the ongoing 7mm day in day out SOLID successes. 7mm is consistently setting and breaking records right now in 1000 yard bench rest. I mean I love my 300WM- a classic but technology continually moves.

Plus a stout load in a WM to push a 240 to velocities that justify the projo is gonna be a heck of a recoiler. This does not constitute long profitable range sessions/trigger time....

I'd look heavily @ the performance of the new Berger 180 hybrid, the
189 Cauterucio VLD as well as the Wildcat bullets 200 ULD.

And if you stick with the more conventional 7mm's (Bergers) your gonna save yourself a good bit of change every time you pull the trigger in comparison to the 240's.

As far as chamberings: a straight .284 win will push a 180vld 3000 fps out of a 32" barrel. Moving up from there in fps, and down in barrel life is the WSM/RSAUM, 280 Ackley, 7mmRM for pretty standard stuff. (Sure there's the 7mmSTW & 7 RUM, but barrel life is stupid.)

The 7mmRM would be my choice if I were not trying to retain the use of my expensive 300WM dies and brass I already have on hand.

I mean really 30 cal is going the way of the dinosaur, regardless if the military is still using it or not. It's like a box truck. Industry keeps putting bigger and bigger motor in it to get more 0-100 performance. There comes a point where someone need to say why not an efficient _______ ? (enter the body shape of your favorite sports car)

To each his own, but this is how a poor boy decides how to spend a hard earned new barrel. </div></div>

That's a interesting project!
I've considered doing a similar thing.A 7mm-375R.So I could use my expensive 30-375R custom neck dies also.I cringe at the thought of all that necking down from 375 though.I'm going to hold out and wait till someone makes a high BC 30 cal for fear of minimal barrel life a 180/7mm moving along at 3150+ fps would yield.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Brett,

this is something I know a little about. It is true the 240 SMK appears not to be so aerodynamic..but it is the most accurate heavy weight .30 cal bullet I know of. After testing and competing with a few of the "best" .30 cal bullets out there and giving them all a fair shake in every way such as shooting 3000 rounds plus of each to solve my all the questions and doubts in my head. I cam back to the 240 SMK.
and shot several world class groups at 1000 yards in competition and practice/tuning sessions.
The second best for this application I found was the Berger 210..however..again with everything being perfect such as the perfect load, barrel, conditions etc. the 240 SMK shot more 2-3" groups averages than anything else.
Yes, the .300 Hulk is over bore but so is a top fuel draggster.
It has/built for a certain purpose. Over bore is over rated..to have the performance capability this and other cartidges like the .338 /408 have it will always have to be over bore. That's why a .300 win. mag wont come close to pushing a 240 SMK to over 3000 FPS. It's all about the performance your looking for and the distance you want to shoot and how many MOA you want to dial in..or dont I should say.
Even though the .300 Hulk is considered overbore it will still send 3000 plus heavy projectiles with HIGH BC's down range with .250 moa accuracy the first 1200-1500 and then may open on average to sub .5 - .75 MOA after that. So with that said its no different than any other hod rod thats over bore.
If you want performance your going to have to pay for it.
How many gallons of fuel does a top fuel draggster burn in a quarter mile?
The .300 Win mag is a great choice. I would choice the Berger 210 everytime. I have shot lots of 208's and a couple of other Hulk shooters have too..but the Berger 210 works best.
I use the Berger 210 in my .300 Hulk tactical rifle.
at 3300 FPS its a great performer what it is intended for.
The 240 SMK is the record holder at 1000 yards but that is another/different purpose than shooting multiple targets at multiple distances. The 240 SMK and 210 BVLD are both under 20 MOA to 1000 so I use the 210 for slightly flatter trajectories out to 1000 yards for pin point accuracy. Plus, less recoil with the 210 and it still 52 MOA to a mile. There is a place for both bullets. After learning each bullets TRUE potential they are the two main bullets in my arsenal for the Hulk.
The 240 has more recoil especially when shooting from the bench with rests in a competition set up. Once I learned to ride the bull I was still able to shoot 5 rounds in 5-8 seconds flat on average to a target at 1000 yards and averaging a a 4" or under group and a 47 score.
The accuracy of the 240 SMK out weighed the excessive recoil and that was reason enough for me to go that route.
Don't get me wrong however, the 210 would shoot very tiny groups and sometimes very close to the perfomance of the 240...at 1000 yards. But that game is about splitting hairs and many other averages.

Brett,

Question #1. How far do you want to be able to shoot and what is the percentage of your shooting that will you be shooting that distance? This is the most important question IMHO.
This is something I can help you with. There are some really great choices but most of them are considered over bore.
Or you can go with a .300 WSM or .260 rem. or 6.5X47 and still shoot out to a mile with ease and accuracy. I see your in Ohio. Get with me and your welcome to come see how these rifles/cartridges perform first hand form one yard to one mile.
If your dead set on launching 240 SMK's fast and accurate there are about 3-4 choices there I would choose from.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Congrats on your record Mr. Sarver.

Awesome.

Why not a 7mm?? I'm curious as to your reply...

Such quantity of powders being burned and such recoil brings to my mind a comedian I heard. He said "the next time your at the gym and a guy says ""I can bench press 400 pounds!"" look him in the eye and say, yeah but why the heck would you want to??"

Regardless a truly awesome record you shot. Great job.
T
Edit:
*Addendum: Upon reading elsewhere on the net I read that Mr.Sarver can shoot out to 2000+ on his home turf. There I'm sure the Hulk is a good fit & not overkill.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Such quantity of powders being burned and such recoil brings to my mind a comedian I heard. He said "the next time your at the gym and a guy says ""I can bench press 400 pounds!"" look him in the eye and say, yeah but why the heck would you want to??" </div></div>

To which my friend Bill Guthmiller would reply, "Because <span style="font-weight: bold">I</span> can!". And he could. I think his max. was 465. His arms were nearly as big around as my thighs.

I am interested in Tom's response about his choice of caliber with its associated recoil. Was there no other way to accomplish this and what were the factors that dictated this solution?

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm thinking of switching over to the 220SMK just because of the price difference but I'll have to see how they compare to the 240's at ELR distances first.</div></div>

Steve,

I'm sure you posted this somewhere in our multiple crossing paths... but have you tried 208's in the 30-375R? I would think if they didn't disintegrate that they would give you the best elevation and wind (obvious... I know) but cheap!

John </div></div>

I was going to order some recently but they were sold out everywhere.I'd have to single feed because of the throating of my rifle,which isn't what I'd prefer to do but not to big a deal.Next year I'll try some again with the H-1000.I had used other powders when I got the rifle years ago and wasn't able to get the speed.Also back then I thought the BC was .711 not the actual.647 with the 240's. </div></div>

I just know that using QL's predicted velocity for 63K psi from a 30" barrel yielded about 3050 to 3075 fps in my WM. I think that's conservative (except for throat wear, which will be anything but.
wink.gif
) . Punched into JBM gives some rather impressive ballistics. Like SS to over 2K yds. at my AO. Your rifle should be able to do that without breaking a sweat (you have a 28" tube?).

208's are starting to show up here and there. Apparently Hornady has begun to eke some out despite telling us they had slipped production out to Jan. I guess we can't trust the word we get out of the front office people. Then again, it is their prerogative to change their mind. How's that go? "they'll be here when they're here." Never truer than now.

John </div></div>

It'll be fun to see how fast I can get the 208's to go.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK



Placed an addendum on my responce three boxes up...
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Placed an addendum on my responce three boxes up... </div></div>

It does help to have a big back yard...
grin.gif


John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrob300</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TresMon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Placed an addendum on my responce three boxes up... </div></div>

It does help to have a big back yard...
grin.gif


John </div></div>

Tom certainly has a nice place to shoot, I can't wait to get back out there.


Earlier this fall, Tom had made some comments during conversation and then also posted on here about a 7mm and also a 338 version of the Hulk case that he was developing and working on.

When it comes to really understanding how to get a heavy 30 to perform he certainly knows his stuff. I'd like to see an update to the SMK for a really good form factor and see how that Hulk will handle them.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

I will try an answer best I can.

First off, the 7mm is great performer and is very accurate if all is equal. It's very hard to beat the BC of a 7mm.
Lots of long range BR shooters tried 7mms. And one of the greatest was Danny Brooks. He went back to his .300 win Mag and won everything you could win with it at the '08 1000 yard nationals. Now, I believe this year several records were beat using a 7mm at 1000 yards.
In the 1000 yard precision game cartridges come and go with popularity because someone does really well with a particular one. We have seen it many times over the years.
So, with that said that's why I came up with the Hulk. I wanted to be able to shoot 240's at 3000 FPS but with accuracy unheard of out of a big magnum. I use 81-85 grains of H-1000 to get it done. In no way am I saying it's the only choice for longrange like some may say or believe I do. Heck, I shoot my .260 Rem a lot more than the Hulk. Each has it's purpose. If I'm shooting past 1000 yards the Hulk is the ticket over most out to a mile. It simply holds more one shot hits at a mile on clay birds, 12"x12" steel, it holds the "Intimidator" high score record and two world records and countless BR match wins against everything and everyone who is anyone in precision shooting.
Yes, there are lots of great 7mm's and I'm sure they are just as capable to a specific distance. They dont hold a tune as well..but when they are in tune it is a great force to be reckoned with. The HIGH BC makes it very interesting but BC is not always where it's at. If it was the .408 would be king and it can't hold a candle to the Hulk or a good 7mm out to a mile when it comes to accuracy. The BEST in the game have tried including me and it didn't happen. So I'm not prejudice. There is a rumor the 7mm will be the next record holder at 1000 yards. That could very well be but a new 7mm is about to take the reins.
Recoil is something that affects shooters more than they realize. It can take away the true potential of a cartridges accuracy if the system is too light or not ran right. My light gun is 17 lbs. It is built to ride the bags and a front rest.
No, it is not a rail gun and no.. not just anyone can shoot a BR rifle to a degree of accuracy as someone with experience and skill. Everytime the rifles recoils your off target if it is heavy recoil. it's all about timing and hand eye coordination and a system that shoots quarter moa. Plus you have to steer it with accuracy. Sometimes accuracy, if it 's truly quarter moa. and HIGH BC pro may out weigh the heavy recoil con. If the shooter knows how to drive it.
.30 Cal accuracy VS 7mm will always be great debate. Both are great choices. Both are world class performers when every thing is equal. Then it's the shooter who has to bring the perfomance out. I guess like a Nascar. We have seen the 7mm come and go in long range shooting and the .30 cal always makes it way back into the winners circle more often than not.
I believe the 7mm for X amount of rounds going a certain speed in the right rig will outperform most other choices.
I know they are hard to keep tuned like some 6.5's.
.30 cals jsut shoot..all the time.
Do I have a favorite? not really..maybe the .260 Rem. because I love the low recoil and HIGH BC bullets and I can still shoot it a mile just as good if not better than a .30....but never better than a 240 gr, SMK at over 3000 FPS.
There are a few more 7mm's coming on in 2011. One is the 7mm Hulk. I'm expecting 700-1000 rounds of sub .5 moa then run it till it dies. But it will send the intended projectile at 3500-3800 fps with about 13 MOA to 1000 yards. 90 grs. of powder or so. Again, a special purpose rifle.
To sum it up, IMHO...if a shooter wants to shoot out to a mile with HIGH BC bullets and accuracy and light recoil with plenty of power and good barrel life then use a .260 or 6.5x47.
From there you enter the world of over bore.
We have a couple of dedicated 7mm shooters here at TVP who shoot the Intimidator. This is what proves what works. You can learn a lot shooting paper at 1000 yards, but never as much a shooting ever changing winds and conditions and distances. Maybe they can chime in with their experience.
Sorry if a rambled on and I hope I was clear. Quess I'm a lot better in person at describing my theories and opinions than typing them out. I dont have all the anwsers but I have lots of hands on and never assume a computer that gives BC's and other data is correct. Shoot the Intimidator for a season and you too will learn what works. Nothing beats hands on experience. Read all you want, weather it be books or here on the hide. Some shooters are very knowledgeable that post here and give very good advice, others should get behind the gun more and send a few thousand rounds down range a year with differnt rifles and cartridges and situations and distances along side other more knowledgeable shooters before they post what they think are facts or advice. There is a lot to learn for those who want to sit back and listen, and participate out in the field with us..we are always interested in helping others.
If I was to choose a 7mm rig it would be a 7mm WSM single shot and 180 Bergers or JLK's. If I could afford all the rifles I wanted this would be one of them.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like to see an update to the SMK for a really good form factor and see how that Hulk will handle them. </div></div>

Not me. I'm perfectly happy with antiquated designs using engineering from the 40's for .30 cal. projectiles. Perfect excuse to use a bigger hammer.

I kid.
grin.gif


*Still* waiting to see who wants to find out if the fabric of the Time/Space continuum will tear if somebody produces a .30 cal bullet with a <.7 BC. OK, you twisted my arm. I'll take .8.

Yeah, I know... I just need to learn how to shoot the wind. Whatever. In that spirit, we'll limit the .338 to 250 Scenars from now on. Deal? Oh, and 7mm? You are now limited to 168 gr. SMK's. Happy New Year. Not that I'm bitter or anything.
wink.gif


John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK



Tom,

Thanks for your post. Very informational and I'll probably read it again 5 or 6 times as there is a lot there to digest.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I'm shooting past 1000 yards the Hulk is the ticket over most out to a mile. It simply holds more one shot hits at a mile on clay birds, 12"x12" steel</div></div>

In all seriousness, this is where the rubber meets the road. And a lot of us (including me) have a lot of work to do. Shooting "groups" on a big piece of steel and calling that precision is not accurate. That group may not have been where your POA was. Shooting really small stuff at distance, will shake out the shortcomings of the shooter as well as the system.

I've been working on the long end of things for better or worse. I'm just the curious sort. But I know that I need to come back to better precision at semi-long ranges and work to perfection.

Frank stresses fundamentals, and this pertains to shooter AND system. I know that *I* am the limiting factor in that equation and have a lot of work to do.

John
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

bohem,

It is a pleasure having you here at TVP. I hear the passion in your voice and thirst for knowledge when you come here to shoot. You have a great mind and should go far in your quest to become a long range precision shooter. I always enjoy answering your questions. I'm sure after your first full season here at TVP your understanding what I'm trying to say about what you read and what is real. I've seen you personally improve each visit. The importance of proper loading techniques and results I know you learned something about. That's what it's all about bro..we get better as we go.
I wish everyone could spend a day or two with us here at TVP.

See you soon!
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

If I were going to shoot the 240gr SMK, I would do it out of a 300 Norma, or a 30-338 Lapua.
I have personal experience with the 300 Norma mag AI(300 JAZZ)
and was shooting the 240gr comfortably at 2850-2900 fps out of a 28" barrel. I am sure it will do better as I did not push it due to it being a new wildcat at the time.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

jrob,

Yes, shooting groups on paper and shooting steel are very different. When I shot 1000 yard comps. I always wanted to win group..but won score lots of times too. Group superceeds score though. I wanted to shoot a 4" group or less and score at least a 45. My agg was 47. Thats about like hitting a large apple every shot at 1000 yards in less than 8 seconds with 5 shots with a bolt gun. Group shooting should never be looked at as second best. It shows a steady and true hold and perfect rifle handling. When you score high in that same relay it means you had a good zero and the wind held. Now, shooting steel shot for shot at long distance brings it all together. If you can shoot a 120 on the Intimidator then that means your wind dope is correct and your elevation is on..plus you did your job with fundamentals.
My reason for the Intimidator is to show long range shooters the difference between a sniping and a counter sniping.
It is a much more precise game that demands perfection to score high and area shooting will not get it done. I'm always honored when a former or current Scout Sniper shoots the Intimidator. It then becomes a reality of what precision shooting really means. If military snipers had .260's or 7mm WSM's the body count of the bad guys would go sky rocket to the point there would'nt be anyone left to shoot at.
Those cartridges make bad shooters into good shooters and good shooters into great shooters and when you take a seasoned military sniper and train him up with a rig like this he becomes a killing and life saving machine..shot for shot.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Thank you, Tom, TVP is a place with few equals, I'm glad to be able to come out and shoot with you guys. I'm looking forward to another season of good times and a lot of learning what works and what doesn't. See you soon!

Josh
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK


Thanks Mr. Sarver.

Danny Brooks has been my 300WM consultant and has gotten my WM performance to where it is today. He, and seemingly like you and all the guys in BR are great about sharing ALL the tips tricks and info freely.

Good stuff.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

TresMon,

Call me Tom.. friend, and yes Danny Brooks is a great and long time friend of mine. He is a great LRBR shooter and holds lots of world class titles. We spent many seasons shooting together and had lots of fun along the way. Another great friend I made on my journey. Nothing wrong with one of the kings of long range, the .300 win. mag.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Tom,

I plan on making it out to one or two of your shoots next year. I should have my 338 Yogi by then and time to have worked with it. I also have a very good custom 300 Wby I built a while back that should do well also.

Abyone who knows anything about long range shooting knows your statement about "if military snipers had 260's or 7mm's the body count would be a lot higher" is true. When I worked at sniper school I tried to get the Marine Corps away from the 308 as their primary sniper round, my attempts were futile. I am thrilled to see the Army go to the 300 Win mag, that is a giant step in the right direction. Hopefully (and I have heard rumors of a 338) the Marine Corps will follow suit soon.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Recoil is something that affects shooters more than they realize. It can take away the true potential of a cartridges accuracy if the system is too light or not ran right.
</div></div>

Fits my description to a T.

The first barrel I had on my .300 Hulk was too light and whippy. The weight of the rifle was 15.5 pounds. The barrel I currently have on the rifle now is a straight taper 1.250" for 30". The accuracy I wanted before is now there. Lesson learned. My scores and my confidence skyrocketed with the changes made. I wished I had made the change sooner.

Merry Christmas-
van
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:8 twist 308 barrel if you want to play with long bullets:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=897445 </div></div>

On my next .300 Hulk I have a tight bore,9 twist Obermeyer waiting.

Merry Christmas-

van
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 240s stabilized fine and were .5 moa accurate at 2610 fps, from my 1/10 twist 30-06. They shot well, beyond 1000 yards.</div></div>

I was entertaining the notion of jamming one of those into an 06 case. Of coarse if its a .308 dia MM has, is or will shoot it out of an 06. I have gone as far as 208AMAX over 58.7gr RL22. Accuracy wasnt bad, bout 3/4". Mine is a 1/10 24". Dont have a chrono, but I was getting some cratered primers, so I didnt want to push it until I get a chrono. Once I found a load that worked, Win760, cant remember the charge, I ran out of bullets.

Makes me wonder what the 220 or 240 will do in a similar combo. MM what powder did you use?
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

The load I played with in my 30-06 was:

240gr SMK (nekkid, but the barrel was heavily seasoned with moly)
Rem brass
CCI 200 primer
55.5gr RL22
3.34" oal

2610 fps from 26.5" 1/10 twist Douglas bbl.

100 yard 5-shot target:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v461/m...nt=Img_5163.jpg


Shot them at some 1000 yd steel and some rocks further out, at Aug's ranch. They were very accurate.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

Sir,

The .300 win mag is a better choice than what they have for certain uses. IMHO I think if the Marine Corps went to the .260 rem they would be amazed of what they could do.
The only ones who would truly know and understand and appreciate the difference is someone who has used a .308 for a while then switch to the .260. OMG..is what you would hear everytime. This would even be a better choice than the .300 win mag in this application. Their first excuss for not using a .260 rem would be barrel wear. Well, last I knew we could afford another aircraft carrier and some more jets we really dont need. Imagine all the laser range finders and .260 rems you could build for that..and extra barrels and ammo..oh..and some hard core training everyday when not actually performing.
Duh...is what I say.
There is nothing wrong with a .308 either. I love it and mastered it some time ago, and was very good with out to 1500 yards. But that was me and 20 years experience and hundreds and thousands of rounds a year down range.
There has NEVER been a former Marine SS or Army sniper that has shot my .260 Rem that didnt wish they had one to use in service. They were simply amazed by the performance and flat shooting as well as the 30% more energy at 1000 yards..not to mention half the wind drift. Again, barrel wear, give me a break. Thats equates to 3000 dead for sure bad guys who think it's ok to be an ass clown. I can't say enough about the .260 rem. but at least a .300 win. and 338 LM are in the works.
I know some SEALS have been using .300 wins. for sometime. Great weapon indeed and they deserve the best we can provide them, not cheat them out of a life saving opportunity because of some barrel wear.
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tom Sarver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sir,

The .300 win mag is a better choice than what they have for certain uses. IMHO I think if the Marine Corps went to the .260 rem they would be amazed of what they could do. </div></div>

260 - it has 300 WM trajectory without the recoil:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=164759

2601280.jpg
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

If I were running a 30/06 I would use a 10 twist barrel 28"-30" and 155 Lapua Scenars and or 175 SMK's. Both I have helped get customers out to one mile with great accuracy and enough power to still dig up some dirt for a visible impact through the scope.
185 gr. VLD Bergers are a great choice in the .06
 
Re: 30 cal 240SMK

I've been pushing 208s to a mile in my 22.5" 30-06, started at 2720 fps. 74 moa (4500' el), and a good visible splash.

A 30" bbl would probably get 2850-2900 out of it. Portability vs performance....It's a compromise in my case, trying to keep my rifle somewhat utilitarian.
 
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