30 cal bullets, lighter or heavier?

[Lofto83]

Hi guys,

I'm new to reloading, in fact I haven't started yet.
I've just started to dip my toe into precision rifle competition and am seeking some guidance or recommendations on what bullets to use.

I have a Howa .308 with a 20" varmint barrel, 1:10 twist.

So far I've used factory ammo with 168 and 175 SMKs. I feel like the 168s start to struggle past 800 or so, am I better sticking with the 175s when I reload?

Should I be considering something lighter like 155s like Lapua Scenars or ELDMs?
Would lighter bullets work well with a 1:10 twist?

I know the 20 inch barrel limits my velocity somewhat but it is what it is and I need to make it work for now.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers guys!

 

[Powder_Burns]

175 fgmm shot amazing out of my 16” rifle, but they are slow, like 2430fps. I’m loading 155 scenars at around 2730fps in that gun. With a 20” barrel the 175’s can be pushed at a more respectable velocity.

 

[Supersubes]

You already know the answer, shoot the 175. Small bc bump for very little reduction in velocity. 20” barrel is about ideal for a 308 if you ask me, and a 10 twist will do fine even if you step down to 155.

 

[Halfnutz]

175 FGMM run slow in my 20 inch. You should be able to bump it up a bit with handloads.
I get around 2505 with factory and around 2600 with Varget.

155 Scenars are pretty popular but I think the wind runs them more at distance.

Havent tried 185 Juggernauts some what due to availability but mostly because the 175s do pretty good.

 

[granite wagon]

In my 19" 308 I prefer the 155.5 Berger. I run it at 2755 but have a higher node @ 2840.
Its trans-sonic beyond roughly 850ish but transitions EXTREMELY well!!
No matter what bullet You decide on Your wind game gonna be IMPORTANT w/ a shorter barrel 0-hate winny poo!!
I have a 26" 6mmCreedmoor, 26" 6.5Creedmoor & 28" 300WSM. My 19" 0-hate is My favorite!!

 

[supercorndogs]

What about something like the 168 TMK and ELD?

 

[918v]

Hi guys,

I'm new to reloading, in fact I haven't started yet.
I've just started to dip my toe into precision rifle competition and am seeking some guidance or recommendations on what bullets to use.

I have a Howa .308 with a 20" varmint barrel, 1:10 twist.

So far I've used factory ammo with 168 and 175 SMKs. I feel like the 168s start to struggle past 800 or so, am I better sticking with the 175s when I reload?

Should I be considering something lighter like 155s like Lapua Scenars or ELDMs?
Would lighter bullets work well with a 1:10 twist?

I know the 20 inch barrel limits my velocity somewhat but it is what it is and I need to make it work for now.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers guys!

You might want to look at the 168 ELD-M. It has a very high BC and 2700 FPS is attainable in a 20” barrel.

 

[nn8734]

Hi guys,

I'm new to reloading, in fact I haven't started yet.
I've just started to dip my toe into precision rifle competition and am seeking some guidance or recommendations on what bullets to use.

I have a Howa .308 with a 20" varmint barrel, 1:10 twist.

So far I've used factory ammo with 168 and 175 SMKs. I feel like the 168s start to struggle past 800 or so, am I better sticking with the 175s when I reload?

Should I be considering something lighter like 155s like Lapua Scenars or ELDMs?
Would lighter bullets work well with a 1:10 twist?

I know the 20 inch barrel limits my velocity somewhat but it is what it is and I need to make it work for now.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers guys!

In addition to others mentioned, Look into the following:

- 185 Berger juggernauts
- 175 Sierra TMKs (168 tmks also an option)
- 175 Bergers

150-165 class bullets perform fine in a 10 twist barrel, 155 Palma match kings and similar come to mind.

175smk is still a solid performer but is outclassed by more recent offerings.

20” barrel in a 308 is more than sufficient for achieving desirable velocities (imo 20-22” is actually optimal for 308 used in a practical/tactical application).

 

[DanUSMC]

Take my internet advice with a grain of salt, but I was in your shoes a few years ago so I feel compelled to put in my 2c. It depends on what you want to do. For example if you want to shoot PRS tactical division theres a speed limit of 2800 fps for .308 and a weight limit of 178gr for projectiles. These rules, combined with current availability, my vote would be for 175 SMKs. You can actually find them in stock, and you can pick up a box of 500 and go to town. Hornady 178 ELDMs would be nice, but theyre hard to find. 175 TMKs, lapua scenars, berger otm tacticals are great too but theyre all hard to find last I checked. If you wanna shoot F class, then maybe pushing the lighter bullets faster is a better way to go. Im a 308 shooter too, I just completed my first build with a TL3 action, 26" Bartlein 11.25 twist. and an ARC Xylo chassis. Yesterday it crapped out a ~quarter inch center-to-center group on my first ocw test with 43.8 grains of varget over 175 smks and 0x lapua brass. The 308 is slow - flies like a mortar compared to 6mm - but man its forgiving to the reloader. If your rifle is squared away, its probably harder to get it to not shoot good. Get what you can that will allow you to compete in your chosen discipline, load and shoot a lot. (Side note - I shot my first prs match with berger 185 juggs and my 18" rem700. They were pushing around 2450 fps. I didnt know there was a weight limit, no one cared and probably wont with you either unless you win). Thats the beauty of the 308 and the 10k round barrel life.
To sum up my rant, PRS I think heavier is better because of the speed limit and because me sees guys who win PRS tac shooting the heavier pills like the 176 A-tips. If you're shooting F class, id take a look at what the pros are rocking and copy them.

 

[DanUSMC]

And I also just thought, if you clean your rifle the way I was taught by my old man, or the way they generally in the military, stop right now and go watch Mr. Galli's vid on cleaning a precision rifle. I get nauseous when I think about how many times I rammed a crooked steel GI issue 6 piece cleaning rod down the muzzle of all of my guns as a younger fellow. Maybe you didn't need that advice, but maybe it will help some other 308 guy who reads this. Good luck!

 

[Expert684]

20” Krieger on a RPR
43.9 Varget 175 SMK .010” off the lands @ 2610 FPS
Same gun
43.8 Varget 185 Juggernaught .017” off the lands. Didn’t chono this load, but I’m guessing about 2550, maybe more?
both shoot bug holes!

 

[OkieMike]

Based on understanding through my own study and observation...

Everything is a trade off.

To get accuracy at distance, the trick is to lob the heaviest, sleekest bullet as fast as accuracy and pressure (and your wallet) will allow.

Your rifle is limited by barrel length, rate of twist, and how much pressure it can safely withstand.

A 30 caliber 220 gr HPBT will fly more efficiently than a 30 caliber 220 gr round nose... But the HPBT must be longer to achieve that sleek and efficient profile. A longer bullet needs a faster twist to stabilize it.

See where I'm going here?

To gain on one parameter you will likely have to sacrifice on another. A heavier bullet will help with accuracy at distance, but be prepared to give up some velocity for it... And loss of velocity can mean more drop... And the circle begins again

You can only change so much of the bullet/ammo characteristics before you have to physically start changing characteristics of the rifle platform.

It's up to you to find the best performing combination and take the rifle to the edge of its performance envelope.

It's a lot of work. And often the results will be lackluster... Or even downright disappointing.

But occasionally the results will make all of the hard work and failure completely worth it.

Having said all that... You might try some of the 175's. You might be surprised at the results

Mike

 

[charnicus]

175s are always a good bet. I think most to all people can get them to shoot well. I’ve been pretty happy with 155 Scenars but I’m not trying to shoot at 1000 with them either. Flat out there are better calibers for that anyway. IMO…

Dunno if they’ve gained popularity recently but the 155s seem harder to find than I remember. Might be more people picking their 308s back up due to scarcity of other bullets.

See if you can pick up a 100 or so of the 155s, 175s, and 185s and let the rifle decide.

 

[OkieMike]

Do the 155 Sierra TMK's offer any ballistic advantage at distance versus the other 150l155 class projectiles?

They can be found without too much difficulty right now.

Mike

 

[charnicus]

Their BC looks good. If they can be found in plenty, may be worth trying them out. No personal experience with them.

 

[DanUSMC]

Do the 155 Sierra TMK's offer any ballistic advantage at distance versus the other 150l155 class projectiles?

They can be found without too much difficulty right now.

Mike

The TMK should create a smaller and more consistent meplat, thus a more consistent BC. But according to Brian Litz' study in this article ( http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/05/litz-field-tests-bcs-of-sierra-tipped-matchkings/ ) the 155 tmk has the same BC as the 155 SMK. SMKs have a tangent profile, where as other 155s from berger etc may have better BCs due to secant shape. Theres tradeoffs to all this shit though.

 

[glock63]

Love the 155 scenar driven hard by 8208 under 800 yards in my 22 inch 308, but for longer range, I load the 185 berger juggernaut with RL17. It is outstanding.

 

[OkieMike]

The TMK should create a smaller and more consistent meplat, thus a more consistent BC. But according to Brian Litz' study in this article ( http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/05/litz-field-tests-bcs-of-sierra-tipped-matchkings/ ) the 155 tmk has the same BC as the 155 SMK. SMKs have a tangent profile, where as other 155s from berger etc may have better BCs due to secant shape. Theres tradeoffs to all this shit though.

Dan, something didn't add up and it took me a minute to realize it. So I double checked...

155 TMK's have a G1 of .519 @ 2600+

155 HPBT has a G1 of .450 @ 2600+

A G1 of .519 beats the G1 of a 175 HPBT (.505)

A better BC and 20 grs lighter means a guy could probably push 'em pretty quick... Which, in my limited experience, Sierras seem to like.

I may order 500 and see how they shoot in my wife's 20" .308

Mike

 

[918v]

Dan, something didn't add up and it took me a minute to realize it. So I double checked...

155 TMK's have a G1 of .519 @ 2600+

155 HPBT has a G1 of .450 @ 2600+

A G1 of .519 beats the G1 of a 175 HPBT (.505)

A better BC and 20 grs lighter means a guy could probably push 'em pretty quick... Which, in my limited experience, Sierras seem to like.

I may order 500 and see how they shoot in my wife's 20" .308

Mike

According to AB, the TMK’s average G1 BC is .464. So is the SMK (2156). There won’t be any difference in the field. The old 155 (2155) bullet is going to be more lame.

 

[DanUSMC]

Dan, something didn't add up and it took me a minute to realize it. So I double checked...

155 TMK's have a G1 of .519 @ 2600+

155 HPBT has a G1 of .450 @ 2600+

A G1 of .519 beats the G1 of a 175 HPBT (.505)

A better BC and 20 grs lighter means a guy could probably push 'em pretty quick... Which, in my limited experience, Sierras seem to like.

I may order 500 and see how they shoot in my wife's 20" .308

Mike

Make what you will of the BC info, I really dont know for sure. But another thing to think about is if youre loading to mag length for a repeater, the tmks will probably result in less case capacity, which might make it difficult to push them as fast as you want. One of those situations where quickload would be handy.

 

[fdkay]

If your rifle will shoot the 168 ELD M, try those.
They tend to be very accurate, you'll get higher velocity and a higher BC than the 175 SMK.
That being said, the 175's are a known performer and tend to shoot very well.

 

[OkieMike]

Make what you will of the BC info, I really dont know for sure. But another thing to think about is if youre loading to mag length for a repeater, the tmks will probably result in less case capacity, which might make it difficult to push them as fast as you want. One of those situations where quickload would be handy.

I hear ya... Believe the numbers when you see them. Lol.

Mike