alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark
thanks,
Mark
Suppressors 30-P1 on a 17?
- Thread starter mark42quin
- Start date
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
cool.. that's what I wanted to hear!
cool.. that's what I wanted to hear!
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Not a chance in hell.....
Not a chance in hell.....
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark42quin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark </div></div>
My question is WHY? There are much smaller cans that would fit the application much better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark42quin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark </div></div>
My question is WHY? There are much smaller cans that would fit the application much better.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark42quin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark </div></div>
My question is WHY? There are much smaller cans that would fit the application much better.</div></div>
Why? Maybe because he is getting the one can and wants to use it on 2 different rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark42quin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark </div></div>
My question is WHY? There are much smaller cans that would fit the application much better.</div></div>
Why? Maybe because he is getting the one can and wants to use it on 2 different rifles?
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark42quin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark </div></div>
My question is WHY? There are much smaller cans that would fit the application much better.</div></div>
Why? Maybe because he is getting the one can and wants to use it on 2 different rifles? </div></div>Sounds practical, big ol can on a 17hmr... LOL. To each his own, knock your self out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 3DHUSKER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark42quin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">alright, I am hopefully receiving shortly a thunderbeast 30-P1... I am wondering if it would be okay to use it with a 17HMR or Mach II? Has anyone done this before?
thanks,
Mark </div></div>
My question is WHY? There are much smaller cans that would fit the application much better.</div></div>
Why? Maybe because he is getting the one can and wants to use it on 2 different rifles? </div></div>Sounds practical, big ol can on a 17hmr... LOL. To each his own, knock your self out.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
yep, that's me.... cheap! I figure if I pay that much for a can, it better work on anything! LOL... I proly will get another one... but if I don't. It's good to know the ONE I get will work!
yep, that's me.... cheap! I figure if I pay that much for a can, it better work on anything! LOL... I proly will get another one... but if I don't. It's good to know the ONE I get will work!
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Stop. It will not work. Somehow some have come to believe that any overbore can will work. They don't....yours wont.
Stop. It will not work. Somehow some have come to believe that any overbore can will work. They don't....yours wont.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
have you tried it? know someone that did?
have you tried it? know someone that did?
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop. It will not work. Somehow some have come to believe that any overbore can will work. They don't....yours wont.</div></div>
My 338 can works on my 30 cal rifles just fine. My friend's 30 cal can works on 6.5, 7, and 223 just fine. Another friend of mine uses a 30 cal can on a 22 LR pistol. Don't know where you are coming up with this. Can you explain exactly what you mean by "will not work"?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop. It will not work. Somehow some have come to believe that any overbore can will work. They don't....yours wont.</div></div>
My 338 can works on my 30 cal rifles just fine. My friend's 30 cal can works on 6.5, 7, and 223 just fine. Another friend of mine uses a 30 cal can on a 22 LR pistol. Don't know where you are coming up with this. Can you explain exactly what you mean by "will not work"?
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Sure, no problem.
The question here is "will my .30 can suppress my .17HMR?" IMO, the right answer is hell no, it will be very loud and certainly not in any way acceptable in regard to suppression. Keeeraaap, too fast of a bullet for such a big hole, little suppression and not enough burn through. Besides, the .17 is tough to suppress, say using a .22 magnum with it, poor again. 235 bore compared to the magnum 280. .17 requires a caliber specific can, period. Gas jet projectile follow through is the issue and it has been mentioned time and time again here at the hide. It matters and, in some instances, gas stripping and turbulence disruption is simple unobtainable. This is one of those instances.
You and I both can use our .338 can works on your .30 as does mine. That is a close match. But, "just fine" varies quite a bit. .223 with a .30 can? mediocre at best. 9mm through a .45 can?...again, compared to the specific caliber, poor.
.22s or a .17 through a .30 can? So loud as to not in any way be worth throwing the crap powder of the .22 or .17 down the can, let alone the lead of unplated bullets. Somebody had to say it, no....no, its a poor idea.
"Work" doesn't mean the projectile wont pass, "work" in this case means "suppress" and the suppression on a heavily over-bored can, in this case .17 thru .30 is piss poor.
Sure, no problem.
The question here is "will my .30 can suppress my .17HMR?" IMO, the right answer is hell no, it will be very loud and certainly not in any way acceptable in regard to suppression. Keeeraaap, too fast of a bullet for such a big hole, little suppression and not enough burn through. Besides, the .17 is tough to suppress, say using a .22 magnum with it, poor again. 235 bore compared to the magnum 280. .17 requires a caliber specific can, period. Gas jet projectile follow through is the issue and it has been mentioned time and time again here at the hide. It matters and, in some instances, gas stripping and turbulence disruption is simple unobtainable. This is one of those instances.
You and I both can use our .338 can works on your .30 as does mine. That is a close match. But, "just fine" varies quite a bit. .223 with a .30 can? mediocre at best. 9mm through a .45 can?...again, compared to the specific caliber, poor.
.22s or a .17 through a .30 can? So loud as to not in any way be worth throwing the crap powder of the .22 or .17 down the can, let alone the lead of unplated bullets. Somebody had to say it, no....no, its a poor idea.
"Work" doesn't mean the projectile wont pass, "work" in this case means "suppress" and the suppression on a heavily over-bored can, in this case .17 thru .30 is piss poor.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
So you have tried it?
So you have tried it?
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Wouldn't be very fair to take a strong position like this and list out all this data if I hadn't. All the way up, all the way down, from standard to stretch cans. Just trying to help here.
Wouldn't be very fair to take a strong position like this and list out all this data if I hadn't. All the way up, all the way down, from standard to stretch cans. Just trying to help here.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Glad that I was not the only one that thought it was a silly idea.
Glad that I was not the only one that thought it was a silly idea.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop. It will not work. Somehow some have come to believe that any overbore can will work. They don't....yours wont.</div></div>
My 338 can works on my 30 cal rifles just fine. My friend's 30 cal can works on 6.5, 7, and 223 just fine. Another friend of mine uses a 30 cal can on a 22 LR pistol. Don't know where you are coming up with this. Can you explain exactly what you mean by "will not work"? </div></div>
Using the 30- cal can on all those center fire rifles is fine but in no way in hell would I run 17 HMR or 22LR though my 30 cal can and powder foul and worse lead up a premium precision can.
But like I said in an early post to each his own.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stop. It will not work. Somehow some have come to believe that any overbore can will work. They don't....yours wont.</div></div>
My 338 can works on my 30 cal rifles just fine. My friend's 30 cal can works on 6.5, 7, and 223 just fine. Another friend of mine uses a 30 cal can on a 22 LR pistol. Don't know where you are coming up with this. Can you explain exactly what you mean by "will not work"? </div></div>
Using the 30- cal can on all those center fire rifles is fine but in no way in hell would I run 17 HMR or 22LR though my 30 cal can and powder foul and worse lead up a premium precision can.
But like I said in an early post to each his own.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
I have put plenty of .17hmr through my 7.62-SD and not only did the world not come to an end it sounded good as well.
I have put plenty of .17hmr through my 7.62-SD and not only did the world not come to an end it sounded good as well.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Perfect, thanks for the info... I will not be shootin my 17 with my 30P1... I just figured it may work since the 17 bullets are fully jacketed..
thanks guys!
Perfect, thanks for the info... I will not be shootin my 17 with my 30P1... I just figured it may work since the 17 bullets are fully jacketed..
thanks guys!
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wouldn't be very fair to take a strong position like this and list out all this data if I hadn't. All the way up, all the way down, from standard to stretch cans. Just trying to help here. </div></div>
Fair enough, you definitely have done your homework. My position was that it would work. Not optimally of course, as you have stated, but it would sound better than without the can. I would definitely opt for a smaller aperture can for the 17, but if I only had the means to get just one can for now, I would use a 30 cal can on it, as long as it was safe. I see no safety issues here, and if needed, I would clean it out after some usage with the 17.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wouldn't be very fair to take a strong position like this and list out all this data if I hadn't. All the way up, all the way down, from standard to stretch cans. Just trying to help here. </div></div>
Fair enough, you definitely have done your homework. My position was that it would work. Not optimally of course, as you have stated, but it would sound better than without the can. I would definitely opt for a smaller aperture can for the 17, but if I only had the means to get just one can for now, I would use a 30 cal can on it, as long as it was safe. I see no safety issues here, and if needed, I would clean it out after some usage with the 17.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Im with RT on this one...my 223 through Thundertrap is still louder than I would like...I use a 22 can with my 17
Im with RT on this one...my 223 through Thundertrap is still louder than I would like...I use a 22 can with my 17
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
DO NOT shoot rimfire thru your centerfire cans guys! That is bad juju.
I agree with what RollingThunder is saying, but disagree with one part.
The SilencerCo Osprey 45 has metered better then most 9mm cans when firing 9mm (obviously). So in that sense your info is a little off.
DO NOT shoot rimfire thru your centerfire cans guys! That is bad juju.
I agree with what RollingThunder is saying, but disagree with one part.
The SilencerCo Osprey 45 has metered better then most 9mm cans when firing 9mm (obviously). So in that sense your info is a little off.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
palmik.... what/how do you clean a suppressor? Anyone else chime in.. I am new to these and yes, I am lazy enough not to "search" fer info...
palmik.... what/how do you clean a suppressor? Anyone else chime in.. I am new to these and yes, I am lazy enough not to "search" fer info...
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
A high quality 9mm wet can will always kick the ass of any high quality .45 can on a 9mm, wet or dry. I see the Osprey statement time and time again, look I have .45 cans that are 2x the volume of the Osprey and have good stacks (real stacks, worked surfaces, not a monocore) and, with 9mms going through, still are louder than say a Triad 9mm.
Nobody that I know that has a great 9mm can and hears a 9mm through a .45 Osprey thinks it competitive, nobody. Its a myth. Its as goofy as "ones doesn't need to attend to your sights with an Osprey", its nonsense as that can is too high for many hosts as well.
Mark, one doesn't clean a centerfire can.
A high quality 9mm wet can will always kick the ass of any high quality .45 can on a 9mm, wet or dry. I see the Osprey statement time and time again, look I have .45 cans that are 2x the volume of the Osprey and have good stacks (real stacks, worked surfaces, not a monocore) and, with 9mms going through, still are louder than say a Triad 9mm.
Nobody that I know that has a great 9mm can and hears a 9mm through a .45 Osprey thinks it competitive, nobody. Its a myth. Its as goofy as "ones doesn't need to attend to your sights with an Osprey", its nonsense as that can is too high for many hosts as well.
Mark, one doesn't clean a centerfire can.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
I have a 45 Osprey and have fired 9mm thru it. It has metered lower then a gemtech tundra.... so I dont know why you want to keep dispelling the "myth". It's fact.... watch their youtube channel as well.
I have a 45 Osprey and have fired 9mm thru it. It has metered lower then a gemtech tundra.... so I dont know why you want to keep dispelling the "myth". It's fact.... watch their youtube channel as well.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
I thought I said high quality can. Seriously though, the Tundra, at 1.25" in diameter, needs to be fired wet, even though it is marketed a dry can. Why? The diameter is too small to begin with to be a top performer dry. No mystery here.
Now try a Hems, Triad, a TiRant wet in 9mm against the Osprey shooting 9mms and let me know what you think.
Cant judge anything by Youtube in regard to dBs.
If we did, this is way too loud in .45....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4AJM75dIU
As compared to this in 9mm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3rYB7C-3XA&feature=related
I thought I said high quality can. Seriously though, the Tundra, at 1.25" in diameter, needs to be fired wet, even though it is marketed a dry can. Why? The diameter is too small to begin with to be a top performer dry. No mystery here.
Now try a Hems, Triad, a TiRant wet in 9mm against the Osprey shooting 9mms and let me know what you think.
Cant judge anything by Youtube in regard to dBs.
If we did, this is way too loud in .45....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt4AJM75dIU
As compared to this in 9mm...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3rYB7C-3XA&feature=related
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
I own a TiRant in 9mm on a custom Nighthawk 1911.
The 45 Osprey is hanging in with it as far as sound to me and the meter doesnt lie. They are to close.
I own a TiRant in 9mm on a custom Nighthawk 1911.
The 45 Osprey is hanging in with it as far as sound to me and the meter doesnt lie. They are to close.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
KYS, I'm thinking in the order of >2x as loud by dB. (3.4).
KYS, I'm thinking in the order of >2x as loud by dB. (3.4).
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
1-2 db is not going to be picked up by the human ear. Tone is different story. But I know for a fact the 1-2 db is not audibly different to a human ear.
But still that leaves you with if a 45 can is suppressing a 9mm to within 1-2 db of a 9mm suppressor that is pretty damn good in my book! I have shot them side to side with the TiRant and I can not tell a difference in sound, tone is different but neither are uncomfortable to my ears.
1-2 db is not going to be picked up by the human ear. Tone is different story. But I know for a fact the 1-2 db is not audibly different to a human ear.
But still that leaves you with if a 45 can is suppressing a 9mm to within 1-2 db of a 9mm suppressor that is pretty damn good in my book! I have shot them side to side with the TiRant and I can not tell a difference in sound, tone is different but neither are uncomfortable to my ears.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
>2X louder, not 2dBs....two times louder as in, twice as loud.
Easily able to hear, very big difference. 3 dBs is 100% doubling.
By the way 2dBs is very audible.
Think of it this way...Why would Silencerco make a 9mm AND .45 if they were so close that you really didn't need the 9mm. They know for all the right and proper reasons....you do.
>2X louder, not 2dBs....two times louder as in, twice as loud.
Easily able to hear, very big difference. 3 dBs is 100% doubling.
By the way 2dBs is very audible.
Think of it this way...Why would Silencerco make a 9mm AND .45 if they were so close that you really didn't need the 9mm. They know for all the right and proper reasons....you do.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
They make the pistons in different thread sizes so you can shoot different cals thru the larger can. They specifically say they offer this option to let the budget shooter get one can to cover multiple calibers. It would seem they are in it to please their customers, letting the person on a budget have fun with more then one platform and multiple calibers.
2dbs is only audible given different sound platforms. Back in school we did sound testing in an Graduated Physics class. We tested everything from car audio, subwoofers, fireworks, firearms, jet engines and diesel engines. Firearms was one that tested minimal heard difference given the controls were the same. ie muzzle brakes and barrel length.
They make the pistons in different thread sizes so you can shoot different cals thru the larger can. They specifically say they offer this option to let the budget shooter get one can to cover multiple calibers. It would seem they are in it to please their customers, letting the person on a budget have fun with more then one platform and multiple calibers.
2dbs is only audible given different sound platforms. Back in school we did sound testing in an Graduated Physics class. We tested everything from car audio, subwoofers, fireworks, firearms, jet engines and diesel engines. Firearms was one that tested minimal heard difference given the controls were the same. ie muzzle brakes and barrel length.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
KYS, so, we are very close on this topic..
Most manufacturers acknowledge that cans can shoot under-bored calibers. There is nothing really uncommon about it, nor is there anything inherently wrong with a vast majority of calibers. Most have done this through their use of their cans. In many instances it can make a very real difference and provide fair to good suppression.
My points are as follows:
1. .17 is not among the calibers that suppress well (as in hardly at all) through a .30. At some point, it is important that folks begin to realize where the line is. I personally think, with a .30 can, even in XL (300 winmag, with either larger chambers, an extra baffle, or in my case both) the line for .30 underbore is at 260. In other words, I think the .223 (already a very difficult round to suppress, is poorly served by sending it through a .30 can.
2. 9mm through a .45 can will suppress. Some cans more than others. Having said that no well designed .45 can suppresses a 9mm as well as a well designed 9mm can. The reason is rear gas jet chase, that which follows the projectile right out the bore.
A few companies, not many, suggest that their .45 cans suppress 9mm as well as SOME 9mm cans. That is true, but it takes a junk can to make that possible. I have heard and continue to hear with great regularity the cans mentioned in this thread. No .45 can mentioned in this thread suppresses as well as a good quality dedicated 9mm.
3. dB readings and sound attenuation. As you and I both know and have written about regularly, dB without duration and frequency is essentially devoid of meaning when it comes to suppress values. Having said that, it is true that dB attenuation when comparing blast in the dB range of crowned muzzle vs muzzle with brake is difficult to determine in the 1-2 dB range. But, as we both know, when we drop the dBs down in pressure to the much lower register of a well suppressed round, 2 dB is very clearly distinguishable, and three is figgin' huge. Its the lower pressure register that is the key, that is where human hearing can detect remarkably small shift.
So, with that, I think I've laid out my position here and this poor guy gets some real data. Best.
2.
KYS, so, we are very close on this topic..
Most manufacturers acknowledge that cans can shoot under-bored calibers. There is nothing really uncommon about it, nor is there anything inherently wrong with a vast majority of calibers. Most have done this through their use of their cans. In many instances it can make a very real difference and provide fair to good suppression.
My points are as follows:
1. .17 is not among the calibers that suppress well (as in hardly at all) through a .30. At some point, it is important that folks begin to realize where the line is. I personally think, with a .30 can, even in XL (300 winmag, with either larger chambers, an extra baffle, or in my case both) the line for .30 underbore is at 260. In other words, I think the .223 (already a very difficult round to suppress, is poorly served by sending it through a .30 can.
2. 9mm through a .45 can will suppress. Some cans more than others. Having said that no well designed .45 can suppresses a 9mm as well as a well designed 9mm can. The reason is rear gas jet chase, that which follows the projectile right out the bore.
A few companies, not many, suggest that their .45 cans suppress 9mm as well as SOME 9mm cans. That is true, but it takes a junk can to make that possible. I have heard and continue to hear with great regularity the cans mentioned in this thread. No .45 can mentioned in this thread suppresses as well as a good quality dedicated 9mm.
3. dB readings and sound attenuation. As you and I both know and have written about regularly, dB without duration and frequency is essentially devoid of meaning when it comes to suppress values. Having said that, it is true that dB attenuation when comparing blast in the dB range of crowned muzzle vs muzzle with brake is difficult to determine in the 1-2 dB range. But, as we both know, when we drop the dBs down in pressure to the much lower register of a well suppressed round, 2 dB is very clearly distinguishable, and three is figgin' huge. Its the lower pressure register that is the key, that is where human hearing can detect remarkably small shift.
So, with that, I think I've laid out my position here and this poor guy gets some real data. Best.
2.
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Lol... I think I will just buy a different can fer my .22 ....
Lol... I think I will just buy a different can fer my .22 ....
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
I shoot my .17 rimfire through an aluminum .22lr can...
I shoot my .17 rimfire through an aluminum .22lr can...
Re: 30-P1 on a 17?
Well if it weren't for that pesky ATF tax stamp I would say 22 cans are almost expendable at their price. I can buy 22 cans for 150-200 dollars all day long. But if I am paying that tax I am for sure getting one that is going to last.
Well if it weren't for that pesky ATF tax stamp I would say 22 cans are almost expendable at their price. I can buy 22 cans for 150-200 dollars all day long. But if I am paying that tax I am for sure getting one that is going to last.
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