Other than Noveske where are you guys getting your 300 AAC Blackout barrels from? I want a 16". I will mostly shoot the lower 110-125g weight bullets. No suppressor fun in MI.
- Thread starter Oakland Tactical
- Start date
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
This is a pretty exciting new cartridge development. I've got my eyes on it as well.
Frankly, LMT had an MRP barrel in 300 AAC Blackout on display at SHOT and they are saying it will be available mid-year. I'm all over that once it is made available.
As far as off the shelf barrels, I don't know of anybody other than Noveske at this point. Some of the folks on M4carbine.net may be able to point you elsewhere http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=63569
Otherwise, the reamer from PTG is available (at Midway) and you can always have a smith put together a barrel for you.
This is a pretty exciting new cartridge development. I've got my eyes on it as well.
Frankly, LMT had an MRP barrel in 300 AAC Blackout on display at SHOT and they are saying it will be available mid-year. I'm all over that once it is made available.
As far as off the shelf barrels, I don't know of anybody other than Noveske at this point. Some of the folks on M4carbine.net may be able to point you elsewhere http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=63569
Otherwise, the reamer from PTG is available (at Midway) and you can always have a smith put together a barrel for you.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
rsilvers, Thanks for the heads up on the Wilson, thats about what I am looking for. Love to get the AAC but like you said they are hording them for their uppers, I just want to swap out the barrel on mine. I also did'nt want to buy another Noveske at this time. Trying to get into this low cost to see if I like it.
rsilvers, Thanks for the heads up on the Wilson, thats about what I am looking for. Love to get the AAC but like you said they are hording them for their uppers, I just want to swap out the barrel on mine. I also did'nt want to buy another Noveske at this time. Trying to get into this low cost to see if I like it.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
douglas has blanks in all twists from 1/7 to 1/14
douglas has blanks in all twists from 1/7 to 1/14
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
so 250-300 for the wilson. thats about going rate? is buying a blank and machining too far from that? im kinda exploring all of this too
so 250-300 for the wilson. thats about going rate? is buying a blank and machining too far from that? im kinda exploring all of this too
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Blackhole will have them also.
Blackhole will have them also.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Brad is doing .300 whisper and clones to .300 blackout chamber conversions. Contact info is below.
Selph Arms
12032 Von Quintus RD
Austin, TX 78719
INFO [email protected]
Brad is doing .300 whisper and clones to .300 blackout chamber conversions. Contact info is below.
Selph Arms
12032 Von Quintus RD
Austin, TX 78719
INFO [email protected]
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
scott, do they only do it in the 1/11 listed on the site?
scott, do they only do it in the 1/11 listed on the site?
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Ax,
I talked to Carl a few weeks ago and he said he was waiting on the stuff he needed to do the faster twists but they would be coming.
Ax,
I talked to Carl a few weeks ago and he said he was waiting on the stuff he needed to do the faster twists but they would be coming.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
cool. im just looking around to see whats available. i see used uppers for $650-$750 since i have been searching for info in these. so i hear use this or that, do this or that. other guys say dont bother. initially i was looking for an upper i can drop on to an ar15 lower. i havent decided SBR or not, eventually i may get a 30 caliber can and would do them both at one time most likely. dont know, never even thought about it really in detail. but i heard lighter hammer and spring and another guy say skip it. id heard heavier buffer and spring.
cool. im just looking around to see whats available. i see used uppers for $650-$750 since i have been searching for info in these. so i hear use this or that, do this or that. other guys say dont bother. initially i was looking for an upper i can drop on to an ar15 lower. i havent decided SBR or not, eventually i may get a 30 caliber can and would do them both at one time most likely. dont know, never even thought about it really in detail. but i heard lighter hammer and spring and another guy say skip it. id heard heavier buffer and spring.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
I'm guessing that your looking for a AR15 type barrel, but Midway USA sells the AAC brand barrels for this caliber for a Remington 700. Which would be a pretty sweet set up IMHO.
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#aac%20barrel____-_1-2-4_8-16-32
I'm guessing that your looking for a AR15 type barrel, but Midway USA sells the AAC brand barrels for this caliber for a Remington 700. Which would be a pretty sweet set up IMHO.
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#aac%20barrel____-_1-2-4_8-16-32
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
If you arent going to go the supressor way, why not just go 7.62x39? Everything is cheap and available.
If you arent going to go the supressor way, why not just go 7.62x39? Everything is cheap and available.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
</div></div>
The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
</div></div>
The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Good question, I actually thought about it at one time but came to these conclusions.
1. I like American ingenuity
2. I don’t have to buy different magazines, bolts or buffers for this project.
3. I haven’t seen or shot a 762x39 AR that was reliable except a Colt and it had some mag issues.
4. I can play with lots of different bullet weights and bullet types compared to the 762x39 which is limited to 3 or 4.
5. I want to have near MOA.
6. I can load 30 rounds into my magazines.
7. I can get brass cheap for reloading, and if I choose, form my own if it has the same supply problems as the 6.8 SPC did.
8. ALL I have to do is change the barrel and get ammo.
9. Better ballistics at the 400 yard line.
10. I feel like the best platform for the 762x39 is the AK and it is really not my cup of tea.
11. AK style mags look gay on the AR and hinder prone shooting.
Anyway that is my thinking.
Good question, I actually thought about it at one time but came to these conclusions.
1. I like American ingenuity
2. I don’t have to buy different magazines, bolts or buffers for this project.
3. I haven’t seen or shot a 762x39 AR that was reliable except a Colt and it had some mag issues.
4. I can play with lots of different bullet weights and bullet types compared to the 762x39 which is limited to 3 or 4.
5. I want to have near MOA.
6. I can load 30 rounds into my magazines.
7. I can get brass cheap for reloading, and if I choose, form my own if it has the same supply problems as the 6.8 SPC did.
8. ALL I have to do is change the barrel and get ammo.
9. Better ballistics at the 400 yard line.
10. I feel like the best platform for the 762x39 is the AK and it is really not my cup of tea.
11. AK style mags look gay on the AR and hinder prone shooting.
Anyway that is my thinking.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
</div></div>
The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Understood, I should have said closer. I have a LMT 308 MWS. So I am really not trying to fill a gap I just think it is a neat caliber. I wonder what a 300AAC BO with 110 grain can do out of a 16"? Specially a flat base that maybe leaves more case capacity. Any body know?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
</div></div>
The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Understood, I should have said closer. I have a LMT 308 MWS. So I am really not trying to fill a gap I just think it is a neat caliber. I wonder what a 300AAC BO with 110 grain can do out of a 16"? Specially a flat base that maybe leaves more case capacity. Any body know?
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
</div></div>
The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Understood, I should have said closer. I have a LMT 308 MWS. So I am really not trying to fill a gap I just think it is a neat caliber. I wonder what a 300AAC BO with 110 grain can do out of a 16"? Specially a flat base that maybe leaves more case capacity. Any body know? </div></div>
That would be my choice of a bullet for hogs, I would bet 150fps faster than the 123gr
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, I should have stated an AR15 barrel.
I really don’t see a need for this round in a bolt gun for me at this time. In Michigan we still get punched in the nuts every time suppressors come up for approval. They don’t trust us here like they do in the other 38 states. I really like the Idea of this round not needing different mags or bolts and having ballistics close to the 6.8 SPC.
</div></div>
The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Understood, I should have said closer. I have a LMT 308 MWS. So I am really not trying to fill a gap I just think it is a neat caliber. I wonder what a 300AAC BO with 110 grain can do out of a 16"? Specially a flat base that maybe leaves more case capacity. Any body know? </div></div>
That would be my choice of a bullet for hogs, I would bet 150fps faster than the 123gr
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Sigh. That is simply not true.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0a5d.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=1
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0b05.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=2
6.8 SPC 110 gain is 2443 fps from a 16 inch barrel. 2540 fps for a V-MAX.
300 AAC BLACKOUT is 2450 fps for a 110 grain from a 16 inch barrel at the 55,000 psi SAAMI pressure limit.
So 300 BLK is 1466 ft-lbs for 110 grain while 6.8 SPC is 1458 ft-lbs or 1576 for V-MAX.
6.8 is only 7% more powerful from a 16 inch barrel, and is actually less powerful from very short barrels.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Sigh. That is simply not true.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0a5d.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=1
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0b05.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=2
6.8 SPC 110 gain is 2443 fps from a 16 inch barrel. 2540 fps for a V-MAX.
300 AAC BLACKOUT is 2450 fps for a 110 grain from a 16 inch barrel at the 55,000 psi SAAMI pressure limit.
So 300 BLK is 1466 ft-lbs for 110 grain while 6.8 SPC is 1458 ft-lbs or 1576 for V-MAX.
6.8 is only 7% more powerful from a 16 inch barrel, and is actually less powerful from very short barrels.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder what a 300AAC BO with 110 grain can do out of a 16"? Specially a flat base that maybe leaves more case capacity. Any body know? </div></div>
2450 fps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder what a 300AAC BO with 110 grain can do out of a 16"? Specially a flat base that maybe leaves more case capacity. Any body know? </div></div>
2450 fps.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you arent going to go the supressor way, why not just go 7.62x39? Everything is cheap and available. </div></div>
7.62x39 does not do well in ARs. The bolt cannot handle the bolt-face size, the cartridge has too much taper for the straight mag-well, and 7.62x39 brass-cased ammo is 25% more expensive on average than 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you arent going to go the supressor way, why not just go 7.62x39? Everything is cheap and available. </div></div>
7.62x39 does not do well in ARs. The bolt cannot handle the bolt-face size, the cartridge has too much taper for the straight mag-well, and 7.62x39 brass-cased ammo is 25% more expensive on average than 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
rsilvers, What kind of performance should I be getting with 110s out of an 8 inch? I have a few loads of Vmax and Sierra 110s that I am going to be chronoing in the morning.
rsilvers, What kind of performance should I be getting with 110s out of an 8 inch? I have a few loads of Vmax and Sierra 110s that I am going to be chronoing in the morning.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
So is there a plan to do the Vmax in the 300 AAC black out and if so what is the projected velocity the same 2450? Why is the 110 spc round getting ~100fps less velocity than the Vmax in the 6.8 spc?
So is there a plan to do the Vmax in the 300 AAC black out and if so what is the projected velocity the same 2450? Why is the 110 spc round getting ~100fps less velocity than the Vmax in the 6.8 spc?
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rsilvers, What kind of performance should I be getting with 110s out of an 8 inch? I have a few loads of Vmax and Sierra 110s that I am going to be chronoing in the morning. </div></div>
I don't have velocity for that barrel length.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rsilvers, What kind of performance should I be getting with 110s out of an 8 inch? I have a few loads of Vmax and Sierra 110s that I am going to be chronoing in the morning. </div></div>
I don't have velocity for that barrel length.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rsilvers, What kind of performance should I be getting with 110s out of an 8 inch? I have a few loads of Vmax and Sierra 110s that I am going to be chronoing in the morning. </div></div>
I don't have velocity for that barrel length.</div></div>
I will post my results then, I'm trying to get around 2100.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jakhamr81</div><div class="ubbcode-body">rsilvers, What kind of performance should I be getting with 110s out of an 8 inch? I have a few loads of Vmax and Sierra 110s that I am going to be chronoing in the morning. </div></div>
I don't have velocity for that barrel length.</div></div>
I will post my results then, I'm trying to get around 2100.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is there a plan to do the Vmax in the 300 AAC black out and if so what is the projected velocity the same 2450? Why is the 110 spc round getting ~100fps less velocity than the Vmax in the 6.8 spc? </div></div>
There will be plastic-tipped ammo by spring.
Only Hornady would know that. Maybe they loaded the V-MAX to a longer OAL and that gave them more case capacity, or maybe they developed it with a powder that gave them more velocity.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So is there a plan to do the Vmax in the 300 AAC black out and if so what is the projected velocity the same 2450? Why is the 110 spc round getting ~100fps less velocity than the Vmax in the 6.8 spc? </div></div>
There will be plastic-tipped ammo by spring.
Only Hornady would know that. Maybe they loaded the V-MAX to a longer OAL and that gave them more case capacity, or maybe they developed it with a powder that gave them more velocity.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Any idea when AAC will have the AR15 barrels availible? I really dont need a whole upper being that I have enough I dont use anyway. And will they be manufactured with the black nitride like the 260 barrel?
Any idea when AAC will have the AR15 barrels availible? I really dont need a whole upper being that I have enough I dont use anyway. And will they be manufactured with the black nitride like the 260 barrel?
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any idea when AAC will have the AR15 barrels availible? I really dont need a whole upper being that I have enough I dont use anyway. And will they be manufactured with the black nitride like the 260 barrel? </div></div>
might try wilson or one of the others and see if they are in stock
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any idea when AAC will have the AR15 barrels availible? I really dont need a whole upper being that I have enough I dont use anyway. And will they be manufactured with the black nitride like the 260 barrel? </div></div>
might try wilson or one of the others and see if they are in stock
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Sigh. That is simply not true.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0a5d.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=1
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0b05.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=2
6.8 SPC 110 gain is 2443 fps from a 16 inch barrel. 2540 fps for a V-MAX.
300 AAC BLACKOUT is 2450 fps for a 110 grain from a 16 inch barrel at the 55,000 psi SAAMI pressure limit.
So 300 BLK is 1466 ft-lbs for 110 grain while 6.8 SPC is 1458 ft-lbs or 1576 for V-MAX.
6.8 is only 7% more powerful from a 16 inch barrel, and is actually less powerful from very short barrels.
</div></div>
You can sigh all you want slivers but i have 6.8s in my hand about 14hrs a day and know more about what they are capable than you ever will, you still think a 8 twist barrel is the best thing for a 6.8? You and Remington may only be able to get those velocities out of a 6.8 because you guys messed up the throat and use large primers but the rest of the world is getting much better performance from the 6.8.
Come on over to colorado and I'll show you 2800fps out of a 16" 6.8, then I want to give you the exact same load to shoot in your Remington 6.8, but you'll need to pull the trigger on yours.
Hype your shit all you want but I know the truth.
A full length 5.56 case has 28.5gr H2O capacity, the 6.8 has 36gr capacity but you think they achieve the same velocity at the same pressure? Didn't you tell me you had to load the 300AAC bullets short so they don't hit the front rib in a 5.56 case and that very detailed instructions would be included for those that handload? Remember I posted a photo where someone in you organization had loaded a 300 with the bullet out at 2.25" which filled a Magpul mag but was hitting that front rib, it was in an advertisment? So after you set the bullet deeper in a case that has less capacity to start with how do you get more velocity especially with an 8 twist barrel?
A major plus of the 300aac was that it could use 5.56 mags but this thread on arfcom makes it sound like loading short will not work and special 300AAC mags must be used or the rib in the mags must be filed down go to 2nd page-- special mag thread . So loading short in order to miss the front mag rib preventing binding in a 5.56 mag wasn't taken into account when the chamber was designed with a long throat and now you can't load short to use 5.56 mags because the accuracy suffers due to the long throat and the mags allow the cartridge to nose dive stuffing the bullet tip into the receiver and now you must make special mags without the front rib? There goes the plus but, at least you can still use 5.56 bolts.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with what the 300 does or will do before but trying to make other cartridges look bad to make your own look better is deceiving to customers and they will find out the truth eventually. Got to be careful when you stir shit, you may splash some.
Just to jog your memory-
Originally Posted by rsilvers
We figured that out - though shooting thousands of rounds. We started with 60,000 rounds and most of that is gone.
The OAL of the shipping ammo is shorter than in that photo and set up so that the ammo is not cocked off center by the rib in a USGI magazine. In the 'owner's manual' (downloadable form the website) I list the recommended OAL for a number of popular bullets. None of them are over 2.1 inches OAL.
My concern is that when ammo companies start to load ammo they will make mistakes of that kind and it will cause user frustration. That is why I did not keep that knowledge a secret and put it in the documents. I want the cartridge to be a success, and part of that is heading off such problems.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The ballistics aren't close to the 6.8. 200fps is the difference between a standard and Magnum.
300aac 123gr bullet 2300fps
6.8 120gr 2500 factory , 2600 handloaded both out of 16" barrels, 110gr bullet factory 2600fps, handloaded 2750.
</div></div>
Sigh. That is simply not true.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0a5d.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=1
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0b05.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=2
6.8 SPC 110 gain is 2443 fps from a 16 inch barrel. 2540 fps for a V-MAX.
300 AAC BLACKOUT is 2450 fps for a 110 grain from a 16 inch barrel at the 55,000 psi SAAMI pressure limit.
So 300 BLK is 1466 ft-lbs for 110 grain while 6.8 SPC is 1458 ft-lbs or 1576 for V-MAX.
6.8 is only 7% more powerful from a 16 inch barrel, and is actually less powerful from very short barrels.
</div></div>
You can sigh all you want slivers but i have 6.8s in my hand about 14hrs a day and know more about what they are capable than you ever will, you still think a 8 twist barrel is the best thing for a 6.8? You and Remington may only be able to get those velocities out of a 6.8 because you guys messed up the throat and use large primers but the rest of the world is getting much better performance from the 6.8.
Come on over to colorado and I'll show you 2800fps out of a 16" 6.8, then I want to give you the exact same load to shoot in your Remington 6.8, but you'll need to pull the trigger on yours.
Hype your shit all you want but I know the truth.
A full length 5.56 case has 28.5gr H2O capacity, the 6.8 has 36gr capacity but you think they achieve the same velocity at the same pressure? Didn't you tell me you had to load the 300AAC bullets short so they don't hit the front rib in a 5.56 case and that very detailed instructions would be included for those that handload? Remember I posted a photo where someone in you organization had loaded a 300 with the bullet out at 2.25" which filled a Magpul mag but was hitting that front rib, it was in an advertisment? So after you set the bullet deeper in a case that has less capacity to start with how do you get more velocity especially with an 8 twist barrel?
A major plus of the 300aac was that it could use 5.56 mags but this thread on arfcom makes it sound like loading short will not work and special 300AAC mags must be used or the rib in the mags must be filed down go to 2nd page-- special mag thread . So loading short in order to miss the front mag rib preventing binding in a 5.56 mag wasn't taken into account when the chamber was designed with a long throat and now you can't load short to use 5.56 mags because the accuracy suffers due to the long throat and the mags allow the cartridge to nose dive stuffing the bullet tip into the receiver and now you must make special mags without the front rib? There goes the plus but, at least you can still use 5.56 bolts.
I didn't say there was anything wrong with what the 300 does or will do before but trying to make other cartridges look bad to make your own look better is deceiving to customers and they will find out the truth eventually. Got to be careful when you stir shit, you may splash some.
Just to jog your memory-
Originally Posted by rsilvers
We figured that out - though shooting thousands of rounds. We started with 60,000 rounds and most of that is gone.
The OAL of the shipping ammo is shorter than in that photo and set up so that the ammo is not cocked off center by the rib in a USGI magazine. In the 'owner's manual' (downloadable form the website) I list the recommended OAL for a number of popular bullets. None of them are over 2.1 inches OAL.
My concern is that when ammo companies start to load ammo they will make mistakes of that kind and it will cause user frustration. That is why I did not keep that knowledge a secret and put it in the documents. I want the cartridge to be a success, and part of that is heading off such problems.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you arent going to go the supressor way, why not just go 7.62x39? Everything is cheap and available. </div></div>
7.62x39 does not do well in ARs. The bolt cannot handle the bolt-face size, the cartridge has too much taper for the straight mag-well, and 7.62x39 brass-cased ammo is 25% more expensive on average than 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo. </div></div>
Lets see if I can do this
<span style="font-style: italic">sigh </span> That is simply not true
We make apx 300 bolts a month and have for the last 2 years, not 1- 7.62x39, 6.8, 5.45 or 5.56 has been returned for breaking. The mags made today are not the same as they were 10 years ago when Colt tried to stick 7.62x39s in 5.56 mags, CPs mags work with the 7.62x39 just fine. It's a new day, the products are different, things change, if you aren't working and testing the new products then you don't really know anything about what is going on today and experience about 10 years ago isn't worth much. As for cost why would anyone buy brass cased 7.62x39 when the steel case is about $4 a box?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Searcher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you arent going to go the supressor way, why not just go 7.62x39? Everything is cheap and available. </div></div>
7.62x39 does not do well in ARs. The bolt cannot handle the bolt-face size, the cartridge has too much taper for the straight mag-well, and 7.62x39 brass-cased ammo is 25% more expensive on average than 300 AAC BLACKOUT ammo. </div></div>
Lets see if I can do this
<span style="font-style: italic">sigh </span> That is simply not true
We make apx 300 bolts a month and have for the last 2 years, not 1- 7.62x39, 6.8, 5.45 or 5.56 has been returned for breaking. The mags made today are not the same as they were 10 years ago when Colt tried to stick 7.62x39s in 5.56 mags, CPs mags work with the 7.62x39 just fine. It's a new day, the products are different, things change, if you aren't working and testing the new products then you don't really know anything about what is going on today and experience about 10 years ago isn't worth much. As for cost why would anyone buy brass cased 7.62x39 when the steel case is about $4 a box?
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We make apx 300 bolts a month and have for the last 2 years, not 1- 7.62x39, 6.8, 5.45 or 5.56 has been returned for breaking. The mags made today are not the same as they were 10 years ago when Colt tried to stick 7.62x39s in 5.56 mags, CPs mags work with the 7.62x39 just fine. It's a new day, the products are different, things change, if you aren't working and testing the new products then you don't really know anything about what is going on today and experience about 10 years ago isn't worth much. As for cost why would anyone buy brass cased 7.62x39 when the steel case is about $4 a box? </div></div>
Constructor,
I don't buy steel cased ammo. Some people do, I know.
M4 bolts start to crack at 5000 rounds and should be replaced by 10,000 rounds. That is in 5.56mm. Now take them and remove the material needed to make them work with 7.62x39, and they get much weaker. Not only that, but the 7.62x39 has more taper, and that increases bolt thrust. The larger bolt face also means that whatever PSI is present turns into more force on the bolt-face.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We make apx 300 bolts a month and have for the last 2 years, not 1- 7.62x39, 6.8, 5.45 or 5.56 has been returned for breaking. The mags made today are not the same as they were 10 years ago when Colt tried to stick 7.62x39s in 5.56 mags, CPs mags work with the 7.62x39 just fine. It's a new day, the products are different, things change, if you aren't working and testing the new products then you don't really know anything about what is going on today and experience about 10 years ago isn't worth much. As for cost why would anyone buy brass cased 7.62x39 when the steel case is about $4 a box? </div></div>
Constructor,
I don't buy steel cased ammo. Some people do, I know.
M4 bolts start to crack at 5000 rounds and should be replaced by 10,000 rounds. That is in 5.56mm. Now take them and remove the material needed to make them work with 7.62x39, and they get much weaker. Not only that, but the 7.62x39 has more taper, and that increases bolt thrust. The larger bolt face also means that whatever PSI is present turns into more force on the bolt-face.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You can sigh all you want slivers but i have 6.8s in my hand about 14hrs a day and know more about what they are capable than you ever will, you still think a 8 twist barrel is the best thing for a 6.8? You and Remington may only be able to get those velocities out of a 6.8 because you guys messed up the throat and use large primers but the rest of the world is getting much better performance from the 6.8.
Come on over to colorado and I'll show you 2800fps out of a 16" 6.8, then I want to give you the exact same load to shoot in your Remington 6.8, but you'll need to pull the trigger on yours.
Hype your shit all you want but I know the truth.
A full length 5.56 case has 28.5gr H2O capacity, the 6.8 has 36gr capacity but you think they achieve the same velocity at the same pressure? Didn't you tell me you had to load the 300AAC bullets short so they don't hit the front rib in a 5.56 case and that very detailed instructions would be included for those that handload? Remember I posted a photo where someone in you organization had loaded a 300 with the bullet out at 2.25" which filled a Magpul mag but was hitting that front rib, it was in an advertisment? So after you set the bullet deeper in a case that has less capacity to start with how do you get more velocity especially with an 8 twist barrel?
</div></div>
Constructor,
Large primers were selected to give the military more positive ignition at -20F. Hornady also chose large primers with KAC for the 6x35mm PDW. I agree with you that for hunting caliber, -20F testing is less of a requirement.
There is no problem with 6.8 SPC being 1:10 twist. In 5.56mm, when they changed to 1:7 twist, some people predicted doom and gloom - but it never happened. Likewise, going from 1:11 to 1:10 in 6.8 has not been proven to cause a significant pressure increase.
I fully believe you can get the velocities you claim with your 6.8 SPC handloads but I can also get impressive velocities with 300 AAC BLACKOUT high pressure test proof loads. SAAMI proof loads are over 70,000 psi, and they do not pop primers. But for comparison purposes, I will only compare to 6.8 SPC loaded to normal pressures.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You can sigh all you want slivers but i have 6.8s in my hand about 14hrs a day and know more about what they are capable than you ever will, you still think a 8 twist barrel is the best thing for a 6.8? You and Remington may only be able to get those velocities out of a 6.8 because you guys messed up the throat and use large primers but the rest of the world is getting much better performance from the 6.8.
Come on over to colorado and I'll show you 2800fps out of a 16" 6.8, then I want to give you the exact same load to shoot in your Remington 6.8, but you'll need to pull the trigger on yours.
Hype your shit all you want but I know the truth.
A full length 5.56 case has 28.5gr H2O capacity, the 6.8 has 36gr capacity but you think they achieve the same velocity at the same pressure? Didn't you tell me you had to load the 300AAC bullets short so they don't hit the front rib in a 5.56 case and that very detailed instructions would be included for those that handload? Remember I posted a photo where someone in you organization had loaded a 300 with the bullet out at 2.25" which filled a Magpul mag but was hitting that front rib, it was in an advertisment? So after you set the bullet deeper in a case that has less capacity to start with how do you get more velocity especially with an 8 twist barrel?
</div></div>
Constructor,
Large primers were selected to give the military more positive ignition at -20F. Hornady also chose large primers with KAC for the 6x35mm PDW. I agree with you that for hunting caliber, -20F testing is less of a requirement.
There is no problem with 6.8 SPC being 1:10 twist. In 5.56mm, when they changed to 1:7 twist, some people predicted doom and gloom - but it never happened. Likewise, going from 1:11 to 1:10 in 6.8 has not been proven to cause a significant pressure increase.
I fully believe you can get the velocities you claim with your 6.8 SPC handloads but I can also get impressive velocities with 300 AAC BLACKOUT high pressure test proof loads. SAAMI proof loads are over 70,000 psi, and they do not pop primers. But for comparison purposes, I will only compare to 6.8 SPC loaded to normal pressures.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
This is not related to the other award "AAC AMMO SEEN AS BEST NEW CALIBER AT SHOT. The Outdoor Wire Digital Network today names its editors' choices for 2011 SHOT Show. The "Best New Caliber" went to 300 AAC Blackout ammo."
This is a new award:
http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/content.php?131-Best-of-Shot-Show-2011
The 2011 Shot Show was another big year for new developments and product releases. Amongst all the new releases, Beyond556.com's staff have evaluated the new products and have named the following to receive the "Best of Shot Show 2011" award.
Ammunition / Cartridge Category - The award for best new ammunition product release goes to Advanced Armament Corporation for the 300 AAC Blackout. This is a 30 caliber cartridge is ideal for hunting, target shooting, personal defense, law enforcement and military use. As a hunting cartridge, the cartridge has already been tested and proven effective hunting whitetail deer and feral hogs. Best of all, it accomplishes many of these uses in the AR-15 type rifle platform. In AR-15 type rifles, the 300 AAC Blackout requires only a barrel change on a 5.56 Nato / 223 Remington equipped rifle. The 300 AAC Blackout boasts greater muzzle energy than the 6.8 SPC as well as 7.62x39mm in some barrel lengths. As a SAAMI approved cartridge with a major support from Remington, Hornady, and Federal this cartridge alternative for AR-15 type rifles has the potential to be on store shelves coast to coast meeting the needs of sportsman who value the ability to obtain rifles and ammunition locally at their favorite retailer.
This is not related to the other award "AAC AMMO SEEN AS BEST NEW CALIBER AT SHOT. The Outdoor Wire Digital Network today names its editors' choices for 2011 SHOT Show. The "Best New Caliber" went to 300 AAC Blackout ammo."
This is a new award:
http://www.beyond556.com/bboard/content.php?131-Best-of-Shot-Show-2011
The 2011 Shot Show was another big year for new developments and product releases. Amongst all the new releases, Beyond556.com's staff have evaluated the new products and have named the following to receive the "Best of Shot Show 2011" award.
Ammunition / Cartridge Category - The award for best new ammunition product release goes to Advanced Armament Corporation for the 300 AAC Blackout. This is a 30 caliber cartridge is ideal for hunting, target shooting, personal defense, law enforcement and military use. As a hunting cartridge, the cartridge has already been tested and proven effective hunting whitetail deer and feral hogs. Best of all, it accomplishes many of these uses in the AR-15 type rifle platform. In AR-15 type rifles, the 300 AAC Blackout requires only a barrel change on a 5.56 Nato / 223 Remington equipped rifle. The 300 AAC Blackout boasts greater muzzle energy than the 6.8 SPC as well as 7.62x39mm in some barrel lengths. As a SAAMI approved cartridge with a major support from Remington, Hornady, and Federal this cartridge alternative for AR-15 type rifles has the potential to be on store shelves coast to coast meeting the needs of sportsman who value the ability to obtain rifles and ammunition locally at their favorite retailer.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We make apx 300 bolts a month and have for the last 2 years, not 1- 7.62x39, 6.8, 5.45 or 5.56 has been returned for breaking. The mags made today are not the same as they were 10 years ago when Colt tried to stick 7.62x39s in 5.56 mags, CPs mags work with the 7.62x39 just fine. It's a new day, the products are different, things change, if you aren't working and testing the new products then you don't really know anything about what is going on today and experience about 10 years ago isn't worth much. As for cost why would anyone buy brass cased 7.62x39 when the steel case is about $4 a box? </div></div>
Constructor,
I don't buy steel cased ammo. Some people do, I know.
M4 bolts start to crack at 5000 rounds and should be replaced by 10,000 rounds. That is in 5.56mm. Now take them and remove the material needed to make them work with 7.62x39, and they get much weaker. Not only that, but the 7.62x39 has more taper, and that increases bolt thrust. The larger bolt face also means that whatever PSI is present turns into more force on the bolt-face.
</div></div>
Like I said, there are new products on the market that work better and last longer, they are also designed to ignite the Russian primers better. The 7.62x39 wouldn't be my choice for a target or deer rifle but some like the fact that ammo is cheap, they can go blast or deer hunt with it.
I am not going to bad mouth it and tell people that the 7.62x39 will never work in a AR just because it isn't my choice. With the right products it runs fine and is reliable.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We make apx 300 bolts a month and have for the last 2 years, not 1- 7.62x39, 6.8, 5.45 or 5.56 has been returned for breaking. The mags made today are not the same as they were 10 years ago when Colt tried to stick 7.62x39s in 5.56 mags, CPs mags work with the 7.62x39 just fine. It's a new day, the products are different, things change, if you aren't working and testing the new products then you don't really know anything about what is going on today and experience about 10 years ago isn't worth much. As for cost why would anyone buy brass cased 7.62x39 when the steel case is about $4 a box? </div></div>
Constructor,
I don't buy steel cased ammo. Some people do, I know.
M4 bolts start to crack at 5000 rounds and should be replaced by 10,000 rounds. That is in 5.56mm. Now take them and remove the material needed to make them work with 7.62x39, and they get much weaker. Not only that, but the 7.62x39 has more taper, and that increases bolt thrust. The larger bolt face also means that whatever PSI is present turns into more force on the bolt-face.
</div></div>
Like I said, there are new products on the market that work better and last longer, they are also designed to ignite the Russian primers better. The 7.62x39 wouldn't be my choice for a target or deer rifle but some like the fact that ammo is cheap, they can go blast or deer hunt with it.
I am not going to bad mouth it and tell people that the 7.62x39 will never work in a AR just because it isn't my choice. With the right products it runs fine and is reliable.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
I have Hornady 6.8 proof loads also, but the normal loads we shoot at 2750fps are not near 70,000 psi. 2800fps will crater primers but not flatten the small primers, they will flatten the large primers.
The 300aac will fill a niche just like the Whisper did, I think it would be a great round to replace the MP5s and other subguns but to claim it out performs the 6.8 with same pressure super-sonic loads is plain BS marketing hype. Now in the sub-sonic role it is a different story.
This is what a 70,000 psi case looks like after firing. Kind of like a 6.8 belted magnum.
I have Hornady 6.8 proof loads also, but the normal loads we shoot at 2750fps are not near 70,000 psi. 2800fps will crater primers but not flatten the small primers, they will flatten the large primers.
The 300aac will fill a niche just like the Whisper did, I think it would be a great round to replace the MP5s and other subguns but to claim it out performs the 6.8 with same pressure super-sonic loads is plain BS marketing hype. Now in the sub-sonic role it is a different story.
This is what a 70,000 psi case looks like after firing. Kind of like a 6.8 belted magnum.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...s but to claim it out performs the 6.8 with same pressure super-sonic loads is plain BS marketing hype. </div></div>
You are making a straw man argument / logical fallacy. I just wrote that 6.8 is 7% more muzzle energy, not what you claimed I have written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You seem to be willing to report on 6.8 loads, as long as they don't drop primers. 300 AAC BLACKOUT 70,000+ psi proof rounds do not drop primers, yet I am not going to report high pressure loads as what the cartridge is capable of. I am only reporting capability that I know has been tested in pressure barrels at less than 55,000psi.
If your rounds shoot at normal pressure in a 6.8 SPC-II minimum spec chamber, then I agree they are fair game as to the performance of the cartridge. However, that is not a fact yet in evidence because there is no claim of pressure testing it using the mid-case conformal method.
This is why I will compare 300 AAC BLACKOUT to Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo instead of your hand loads.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...s but to claim it out performs the 6.8 with same pressure super-sonic loads is plain BS marketing hype. </div></div>
You are making a straw man argument / logical fallacy. I just wrote that 6.8 is 7% more muzzle energy, not what you claimed I have written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You seem to be willing to report on 6.8 loads, as long as they don't drop primers. 300 AAC BLACKOUT 70,000+ psi proof rounds do not drop primers, yet I am not going to report high pressure loads as what the cartridge is capable of. I am only reporting capability that I know has been tested in pressure barrels at less than 55,000psi.
If your rounds shoot at normal pressure in a 6.8 SPC-II minimum spec chamber, then I agree they are fair game as to the performance of the cartridge. However, that is not a fact yet in evidence because there is no claim of pressure testing it using the mid-case conformal method.
This is why I will compare 300 AAC BLACKOUT to Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo instead of your hand loads.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to bad mouth it and tell people that the 7.62x39 will never work in a AR just because it isn't my choice. With the right products it runs fine and is reliable. </div></div>
7.62x39 was my choice. I spent a long time on it. I later ruled it out based on that experience. I went so far as to get a lower which accepted AK magazines. That ended up requiring milling the bottom of the BCG to clear the feed lips. KAC tried as well with the SR47.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am not going to bad mouth it and tell people that the 7.62x39 will never work in a AR just because it isn't my choice. With the right products it runs fine and is reliable. </div></div>
7.62x39 was my choice. I spent a long time on it. I later ruled it out based on that experience. I went so far as to get a lower which accepted AK magazines. That ended up requiring milling the bottom of the BCG to clear the feed lips. KAC tried as well with the SR47.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
I had a chance to test a few of my hand loads today as factory ammo is nowhere to be found. I loaded up a few different loads mostly Vmax 110s and Sierra HP 110, and one load of Remington Accutip 150s. For my subsonic loads I used Sierra 220 MK. Nothing at all scientific. I did not have any signs of overpressure, So I think I am safe to increase powder a little. All loads were shot out of a Noveske 8 inch 1/8 barrel. The (S) is velocities recorded suppressed with a Gemtech HVT. SIerra 110 HPs were the overall winner for today at 241 fps
Bullet Charge OAL Velocity
Vmax 110 19 H110 2.003 1989 (S) 2056
Vmax 110 19.5 H110 2.005 2069
Sierra 110 19 H110 1.891 1994
Sierra 110 19.5 H110 1.891 2041
Rem 150 16 H110 2.085 1713
Sierra 220 11.2 A1680 2.089 925
Sierra 220 11.2 A1680 2.089 (S)922
Sierra 220 11.9 A1680 2.089 1042
Sierra 220 11.9 A1680 2.089 (S)1018
Sierra 220 12.3 A1680 2.089 (S)1022
Sierra 220 12.7 A1680 2.089 (S)1086
I had a chance to test a few of my hand loads today as factory ammo is nowhere to be found. I loaded up a few different loads mostly Vmax 110s and Sierra HP 110, and one load of Remington Accutip 150s. For my subsonic loads I used Sierra 220 MK. Nothing at all scientific. I did not have any signs of overpressure, So I think I am safe to increase powder a little. All loads were shot out of a Noveske 8 inch 1/8 barrel. The (S) is velocities recorded suppressed with a Gemtech HVT. SIerra 110 HPs were the overall winner for today at 241 fps
Bullet Charge OAL Velocity
Vmax 110 19 H110 2.003 1989 (S) 2056
Vmax 110 19.5 H110 2.005 2069
Sierra 110 19 H110 1.891 1994
Sierra 110 19.5 H110 1.891 2041
Rem 150 16 H110 2.085 1713
Sierra 220 11.2 A1680 2.089 925
Sierra 220 11.2 A1680 2.089 (S)922
Sierra 220 11.9 A1680 2.089 1042
Sierra 220 11.9 A1680 2.089 (S)1018
Sierra 220 12.3 A1680 2.089 (S)1022
Sierra 220 12.7 A1680 2.089 (S)1086
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...s but to claim it out performs the 6.8 with same pressure super-sonic loads is plain BS marketing hype. </div></div>
You are making a straw man argument / logical fallacy. I just wrote that 6.8 is 7% more muzzle energy, not what you claimed I have written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You seem to be willing to report on 6.8 loads, as long as they don't drop primers. 300 AAC BLACKOUT 70,000+ psi proof rounds do not drop primers, yet I am not going to report high pressure loads as what the cartridge is capable of. I am only reporting capability that I know has been tested in pressure barrels at less than 55,000psi.
If your rounds shoot at normal pressure in a 6.8 SPC-II minimum spec chamber, then I agree they are fair game as to the performance of the cartridge. However, that is not a fact yet in evidence because there is no claim of pressure testing it using the mid-case conformal method.
This is why I will compare 300 AAC BLACKOUT to Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo instead of your hand loads.
</div></div>
The Hornady 6.8 110gr HPBTs produce apx 2600fps out of our barrels(2580-2610) Oehlr 35 and a CED M2
Pressure test have been run, pressure ammo was used as a known standard, there was 12,000 psi difference between a SAAMI standard barrel that had been tested side by side with a piezo test barrel and our high performance barrel and chamber. How much extra velocity do you think we got when we added enough powder to increase the pressure 12,000 psi?
That is the difference you can't explain. There are thousands of people handloading the 6.8 to get 2750fps out of 16" barrels, that is a standard load in our barrels that does not flatten or crater primers. I don't doubt for a minute the Remington barrels and large primers will produce the velocities you state at the pressure you state but they aren't high performance barrels, as a matter of fact outside of Model 1 sales barrels they are the worst performing 6.8 barrels made shooting the worst 6.8 ammo made it's only common sense that they would have dismal performance.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...s but to claim it out performs the 6.8 with same pressure super-sonic loads is plain BS marketing hype. </div></div>
You are making a straw man argument / logical fallacy. I just wrote that 6.8 is 7% more muzzle energy, not what you claimed I have written.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You seem to be willing to report on 6.8 loads, as long as they don't drop primers. 300 AAC BLACKOUT 70,000+ psi proof rounds do not drop primers, yet I am not going to report high pressure loads as what the cartridge is capable of. I am only reporting capability that I know has been tested in pressure barrels at less than 55,000psi.
If your rounds shoot at normal pressure in a 6.8 SPC-II minimum spec chamber, then I agree they are fair game as to the performance of the cartridge. However, that is not a fact yet in evidence because there is no claim of pressure testing it using the mid-case conformal method.
This is why I will compare 300 AAC BLACKOUT to Hornady 6.8 SPC ammo instead of your hand loads.
</div></div>
The Hornady 6.8 110gr HPBTs produce apx 2600fps out of our barrels(2580-2610) Oehlr 35 and a CED M2
Pressure test have been run, pressure ammo was used as a known standard, there was 12,000 psi difference between a SAAMI standard barrel that had been tested side by side with a piezo test barrel and our high performance barrel and chamber. How much extra velocity do you think we got when we added enough powder to increase the pressure 12,000 psi?
That is the difference you can't explain. There are thousands of people handloading the 6.8 to get 2750fps out of 16" barrels, that is a standard load in our barrels that does not flatten or crater primers. I don't doubt for a minute the Remington barrels and large primers will produce the velocities you state at the pressure you state but they aren't high performance barrels, as a matter of fact outside of Model 1 sales barrels they are the worst performing 6.8 barrels made shooting the worst 6.8 ammo made it's only common sense that they would have dismal performance.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Hornady 6.8 110gr HPBTs produce apx 2600fps out of our barrels(2580-2610) Oehlr 35 and a CED M2
Pressure test have been run, pressure ammo was used as a known standard, there was 12,000 psi difference between a SAAMI standard barrel that had been tested side by side with a piezo test barrel and our high performance barrel and chamber. How much extra velocity do you think we got when we added enough powder to increase the pressure 12,000 psi? </div></div>
Sure, pressure tests have been done, but piezo tests (the type that were done) don't count. One needs a conformal or case-mouth calibrated transducer system because piezo data cannot be used to compare one barrel to another. At best such a system can be used to show relative changes from one ammo type to another in the same barrel. I know, I own a Pressure-Trace II piezo system.
The difference between 6.8 SPC 11 twist and 6.8 SPC SAAMI 10 twist is more likely to be 2000 psi than 12000 psi. I think we are talking about 30 fps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the difference you can't explain. There are thousands of people handloading the 6.8 to get 2750fps out of 16" barrels, that is a standard load in our barrels that does not flatten or crater primers.</div></div>
Absence of pressure signs does not mean they are below normal pressure limits.
Any cartridge can be pushed over normal limits. My point is that my 300 AAC BLACKOUT data is at 55,000 psi in a SAAMI test barrel and it is only right to compare it to 6.8 for ammo that is also not over-pressure.
6.8 SPC 110 grain is about 7% more muzzle energy than 300 AAC BLACKOUT 110 grain in a 16 inch barrel. That is based on the best data available.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Hornady 6.8 110gr HPBTs produce apx 2600fps out of our barrels(2580-2610) Oehlr 35 and a CED M2
Pressure test have been run, pressure ammo was used as a known standard, there was 12,000 psi difference between a SAAMI standard barrel that had been tested side by side with a piezo test barrel and our high performance barrel and chamber. How much extra velocity do you think we got when we added enough powder to increase the pressure 12,000 psi? </div></div>
Sure, pressure tests have been done, but piezo tests (the type that were done) don't count. One needs a conformal or case-mouth calibrated transducer system because piezo data cannot be used to compare one barrel to another. At best such a system can be used to show relative changes from one ammo type to another in the same barrel. I know, I own a Pressure-Trace II piezo system.
The difference between 6.8 SPC 11 twist and 6.8 SPC SAAMI 10 twist is more likely to be 2000 psi than 12000 psi. I think we are talking about 30 fps.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is the difference you can't explain. There are thousands of people handloading the 6.8 to get 2750fps out of 16" barrels, that is a standard load in our barrels that does not flatten or crater primers.</div></div>
Absence of pressure signs does not mean they are below normal pressure limits.
Any cartridge can be pushed over normal limits. My point is that my 300 AAC BLACKOUT data is at 55,000 psi in a SAAMI test barrel and it is only right to compare it to 6.8 for ammo that is also not over-pressure.
6.8 SPC 110 grain is about 7% more muzzle energy than 300 AAC BLACKOUT 110 grain in a 16 inch barrel. That is based on the best data available.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
6.8 SPC 110 grain is about 7% more muzzle energy than 300 AAC BLACKOUT 110 grain in a 16 inch barrel. That is based on the best data available.
</div></div>
SSA and Hornady 110gr loads hit apx 2600fps from a 16" barrel, you can think they don't till they day you die but that will not change the fact that it does, Remington may only hit 2450fps but that is Remington ammo which is known to be the worst 6.8 ammo on the market. Handloads hit 2750 easy, and I have pushed some near 2850 with a 110, 2800 with 115gr bullets, 80gr GS bullets averaged 3380fps out of a 20" 13 twist 3 groove barrel. The 300 isn't even close to what the 6.8 will do unless you compare it to Remington bolt barrels and Remington ammo.
Having to file down the ribs in the mags so the ammo will feed isn't a good thing for the 300, I thought you said you had figured that out, that thread on arfcom is going to turn some away from the 300.
from arfcom--
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rsilvers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
6.8 SPC 110 grain is about 7% more muzzle energy than 300 AAC BLACKOUT 110 grain in a 16 inch barrel. That is based on the best data available.
</div></div>
SSA and Hornady 110gr loads hit apx 2600fps from a 16" barrel, you can think they don't till they day you die but that will not change the fact that it does, Remington may only hit 2450fps but that is Remington ammo which is known to be the worst 6.8 ammo on the market. Handloads hit 2750 easy, and I have pushed some near 2850 with a 110, 2800 with 115gr bullets, 80gr GS bullets averaged 3380fps out of a 20" 13 twist 3 groove barrel. The 300 isn't even close to what the 6.8 will do unless you compare it to Remington bolt barrels and Remington ammo.
Having to file down the ribs in the mags so the ammo will feed isn't a good thing for the 300, I thought you said you had figured that out, that thread on arfcom is going to turn some away from the 300.
from arfcom--
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SSA and Hornady 110gr loads hit apx 2600fps from a 16" barrel, you can think they don't till they day you die but that will not change the fact that it does.</div></div>
I specifically did not use Remington ammo in my comparison because people have said that it is not loaded to the maximum possible velocity. That is why I used Hornady 110 - it is the fast ammo from a company that I know follows proper pressure testing.
2540 fps right here:
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0b05.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=2
As for them doing 2600 in your barrel - you probably have a custom land-groove ratio and tuned the bore cross-sectional area. What is the bore cross sectional area of your bore in square inches or square mm?
You do realize that you could make a custom bore in any caliber and also boost velocity? For this reason, and for the the purposes of comparison, it only makes sense to compare standard pressure test barrels for each caliber. So again, I will use Hornady's data.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SSA and Hornady 110gr loads hit apx 2600fps from a 16" barrel, you can think they don't till they day you die but that will not change the fact that it does.</div></div>
I specifically did not use Remington ammo in my comparison because people have said that it is not loaded to the maximum possible velocity. That is why I used Hornady 110 - it is the fast ammo from a company that I know follows proper pressure testing.
2540 fps right here:
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/more_detail0b05.html?id=72&sID=151&pID=2
As for them doing 2600 in your barrel - you probably have a custom land-groove ratio and tuned the bore cross-sectional area. What is the bore cross sectional area of your bore in square inches or square mm?
You do realize that you could make a custom bore in any caliber and also boost velocity? For this reason, and for the the purposes of comparison, it only makes sense to compare standard pressure test barrels for each caliber. So again, I will use Hornady's data.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard Wilson Combat is backing the 7.62x40 just because it has better super-sonic performance than the 300AAC, looks like they are going to load ammo or have Double Tap load for them. Not sure it's worth all that trouble for Wilson. </div></div>
He makes his own ammo so it makes sense for him. It has at least an extra 100 fps but requires custom magazines and has no industry support. To me it is like people who 'Akley Improve' every cartridge in their collection.
I decided not to AI my 260 Remington. I am strange though - when I handload 308 I won't exceed SAAMI specs on OAL. I am big into standards lately.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bustin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I heard Wilson Combat is backing the 7.62x40 just because it has better super-sonic performance than the 300AAC, looks like they are going to load ammo or have Double Tap load for them. Not sure it's worth all that trouble for Wilson. </div></div>
He makes his own ammo so it makes sense for him. It has at least an extra 100 fps but requires custom magazines and has no industry support. To me it is like people who 'Akley Improve' every cartridge in their collection.
I decided not to AI my 260 Remington. I am strange though - when I handload 308 I won't exceed SAAMI specs on OAL. I am big into standards lately.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
Not really into arguing the ( 6.8 Vs the BLK /.30-221 ) thing .
'But', on this Post saying that he is comfortably getting 2-K plus, out an 8-inch barrel and a SupCan. . NICE .... I really like that & that is way more than I expected out that little barrel length .
.
Not really into arguing the ( 6.8 Vs the BLK /.30-221 ) thing .
'But', on this Post saying that he is comfortably getting 2-K plus, out an 8-inch barrel and a SupCan. . NICE .... I really like that & that is way more than I expected out that little barrel length .
.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
I am really excited too, to be getting that kind of velocity out of an 8 inch barrel. It makes an ultra short barreled AR a practical weapon now. I really see a lot of potential for this round; everything from a medium range varmit, suppressed sub gun, to PSD style deffensive guns. I will post some more data when I have the chance to load/ test fire some more loads.
I am really excited too, to be getting that kind of velocity out of an 8 inch barrel. It makes an ultra short barreled AR a practical weapon now. I really see a lot of potential for this round; everything from a medium range varmit, suppressed sub gun, to PSD style deffensive guns. I will post some more data when I have the chance to load/ test fire some more loads.
Re: 300 ACC blackout barrel options
I have been extreemly happy with my 10" Noveske 300 BLK barrel.
Since my upper is to be run suppressed 100% of the time, it was the best fit for me.
The 300 BLK is a very good SBR cartridge.
I've heard very good things about:
Delta Company Arms, LLC
(918) 332-6503
[email protected]
www.deltacompanyarms.com
They seem to be a great company that has stock and excellent prices.
I have been extreemly happy with my 10" Noveske 300 BLK barrel.
Since my upper is to be run suppressed 100% of the time, it was the best fit for me.
The 300 BLK is a very good SBR cartridge.
I've heard very good things about:
Delta Company Arms, LLC
(918) 332-6503
[email protected]
www.deltacompanyarms.com
They seem to be a great company that has stock and excellent prices.
