Gunsmithing 300 wsm vs 308
- Thread starter trauma1
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.300 WSM will obviously be a better performer at any distance. The type of competition will also play a role in your decision.
You might try those loads that go transonic before assuming they will be poor performers. Depending on the bullet, they can still be very accurate although not the most ideal situation.
If both are built for lr shooting with good loads and good shooter 300 wsm will smoke a 308 at 1000 with ease.
Let's see.... 308 has lighter, lower BC bulets at slower speeds.... 300wsm by a mile. The only advantage of the 308 is brass availability and barrel life.
I just got a 300wsm, so to date I can't tell you what the barrel life will be. I talked with the gunsmith and we are hoping to get in the 1500-2500 range. He thought there could be a1000 rounds difference based on how hot I load and how fast I put them down range. I'm loading pretty mild, but it is so much fun to shoot, that I have to admit I have warmed it up a few times. That said, with the time it takes to get a barrel, I called him the other day and ask him to order a new barrel so it will be available when the time comes.
The 308 is just adequate for 1,000 yard. But, if the weapon will have other uses then a 308 barrel will last longer than the 300 barrel. Plan on $650 to $750 per barrel chambered and cut for a brake. Remember, you cannot just go and shoot it, you have to practice too.
My standard 308 load is 175SMK at 2608 fps. With that load, the bullets will go transonic just short of 1,000 yards and the drop (with a 200-yard zero) is 35.7 MOA.
My standard 308 load is 175SMK at 2608 fps. With that load, the bullets will go transonic just short of 1,000 yards and the drop (with a 200-yard zero) is 35.7 MOA.
I had my 300wsm sending 208gr Amax @ 2680fps with H4831SC...... 31.5 moa @ 1000yds with 100yd zero.
IMHO ,308 ......if I'm discerning this right you don't have either yet, so the 308 is easier on the shooter(less recoil) and can be loaded to reach a 1000 with respectable performance.my 22" gap shoots a 208 amax at 2530 fps very comfortably with rl17 , or a 155 scenar at 2850. Should be even better with a 24 or 26 " barrel. 308 has lots of options both bullets and powder which is a real asset in these times of scarce components. But if all out performance is wanted then the wsm is faster that is the only benefit.
Having built many, many international Palma rifles, I can tell you this:
Get a 155 to 2900 and it'll stay SS to 1K.
Dump a pile of Varget into it, and sit on your press and you can get to about 3100. If your an animal and have the Gamboa chamber, you could even hit 3150. Even better.
True Palma rifles are going to have a 28 to 34 long barrel. So, judge your application accordingly and see how this measures up. Stay on the wind, hold your elevation, and you'll be just fine.
Good luck.
C.
Get a 155 to 2900 and it'll stay SS to 1K.
Dump a pile of Varget into it, and sit on your press and you can get to about 3100. If your an animal and have the Gamboa chamber, you could even hit 3150. Even better.
True Palma rifles are going to have a 28 to 34 long barrel. So, judge your application accordingly and see how this measures up. Stay on the wind, hold your elevation, and you'll be just fine.
Good luck.
C.
3150 fps out of a .308??!! I thought I was crazy pushing some of mine to 3000 fps with Moly and 24" tubes (155 Scenars), but that just sounds insane! Guess it would be possible with 4"-10" of extra barrel though. Wow, just never heard of a .308 going that fast...
A couple of questions for the OP what type of comps? I ask because some do not allow brakes. How big is the shooter and have they shot much in the past?
Both questions get to the same point really, recoil, the 300 WSM is a bitch unless loaded down if you have to shoot it 100 times in a day for an F-class match, I mention F-class as brakes are not allowed. Shooting a heavy recoiling gun in a com can be done effectively and is but usually by larger build men. I would hate to give a new or novice shooter a heavy recoiling gun, this is the easiest way to create a lifelong flinch. Once you have learned a flinch you may have it for life and can ruin a shooter's ability to shoot accurately and take all the fun out of shooting.
I agree with Chad that a better way is a .308 with 155's at 3,000 fps or more, you may need a drop tube to get that much Varget in but it done by many shooters for thousands of rounds a year. Compressed loads with Varget, Benchmark, XBR 80XX, and a few others, a slow twist barrel, a little on the long side and the 308 will toss bullets that are supersonic at 1,000 yards.
wade
Both questions get to the same point really, recoil, the 300 WSM is a bitch unless loaded down if you have to shoot it 100 times in a day for an F-class match, I mention F-class as brakes are not allowed. Shooting a heavy recoiling gun in a com can be done effectively and is but usually by larger build men. I would hate to give a new or novice shooter a heavy recoiling gun, this is the easiest way to create a lifelong flinch. Once you have learned a flinch you may have it for life and can ruin a shooter's ability to shoot accurately and take all the fun out of shooting.
I agree with Chad that a better way is a .308 with 155's at 3,000 fps or more, you may need a drop tube to get that much Varget in but it done by many shooters for thousands of rounds a year. Compressed loads with Varget, Benchmark, XBR 80XX, and a few others, a slow twist barrel, a little on the long side and the 308 will toss bullets that are supersonic at 1,000 yards.
wade
I would do a 300 wsm any day before a 308. I ran a 22" 300, 208's at 2815 fps. Barrel life should be between 4-5000 rounds. You can run 190's in the 29-3000fps range if you want more speed. They are very easy to load for, the brass is very stong and will last until you lose it, just remember to anneal it every once in a while.
It sounds as though the OP may not have much (any?) experience in LR shooting as yet. If that is the case, a .300WSM is a poor choice IMO. Ballistically it is superior in every way to a .308, but the issues involving recoil, reloading, and gun handling that will be required in order to shoot well with it could make it far more difficult for a beginner to learn on.
A good friend of mine shoots the .300 WSM in F-Open competition and has placed in the top 10 at Nationals the last two years running. I was able to watch him develop a load for his rifle and solve the gun handling issues necessary to shoot well with that rifle from the very beginning, so I have some idea of what it takes to get that system working well. He was by no means an inexperienced shooter when he started with the .300 WSM, but it took him the better part of a season to get everything worked out. I would not recommend the .300 WSM to the OP if he doesn't already have a fair amount of experience in LR shooting.
A quality .308 with a 28" to 30" or 32" barrel would be far better suited for a beginner. The .308 is much simpler to reload, and reaching 1000 yd is not an issue, even using factory match ammunition if the OP doesn't reload. There are also likely to be a lot more choices as far as the rifle itself goes in .308, particularly if the OP isn't planning on spending $3-5K on a custom rifle alone. Brass, bullets, and powder would also be much less expensive with a .308. Finally, if F-Class possibly happens to be the type competition shooting he was referring to, a .300 WSM would put him in Open Class. A .308 would put him in F-TR, where most everyone else would also be using the same caliber. If the OP was referring to some other type of competition, I would suggest that there probably much better calibers to use than either one of the choices listed.
A good friend of mine shoots the .300 WSM in F-Open competition and has placed in the top 10 at Nationals the last two years running. I was able to watch him develop a load for his rifle and solve the gun handling issues necessary to shoot well with that rifle from the very beginning, so I have some idea of what it takes to get that system working well. He was by no means an inexperienced shooter when he started with the .300 WSM, but it took him the better part of a season to get everything worked out. I would not recommend the .300 WSM to the OP if he doesn't already have a fair amount of experience in LR shooting.
A quality .308 with a 28" to 30" or 32" barrel would be far better suited for a beginner. The .308 is much simpler to reload, and reaching 1000 yd is not an issue, even using factory match ammunition if the OP doesn't reload. There are also likely to be a lot more choices as far as the rifle itself goes in .308, particularly if the OP isn't planning on spending $3-5K on a custom rifle alone. Brass, bullets, and powder would also be much less expensive with a .308. Finally, if F-Class possibly happens to be the type competition shooting he was referring to, a .300 WSM would put him in Open Class. A .308 would put him in F-TR, where most everyone else would also be using the same caliber. If the OP was referring to some other type of competition, I would suggest that there probably much better calibers to use than either one of the choices listed.
Thx guys! This has been very helpful.
I am small stature. I have shot two tactical long range competitions w/ a 300 win mag. I don't have problem w/ recoil (I have a brake). I am not confident in my battle w/ wind yet. I was hoping for a shorter barrel but still cheat the wind w/ heavy bullets.
Trauma1
I am small stature. I have shot two tactical long range competitions w/ a 300 win mag. I don't have problem w/ recoil (I have a brake). I am not confident in my battle w/ wind yet. I was hoping for a shorter barrel but still cheat the wind w/ heavy bullets.
Trauma1
Sir, What Chad said is on the mark. CFE will push a 155 to almost 3000 in Lapua brass with a 24" tube..I know, I am doing it weekly. It would push the Berger 155 to the same speed. In my particular barrel, I cannot get anywhere near 3000 with Varget no matter how much I stand on it in a 24" barrel. All barrels are different.
Bill
Bill
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