300gr Bergers and H1000

[joediesel81]

Did some testing today with h100 and 300gr bergers.


SAVAGE 110BA 338 LAPUA
26IN BARREL 1:9
H1000
CCI 250
LAPUA BRASS
BERGER 300GR OTM GEN 2
3.702 COAL

AT 2600FT 72DEG DAY
89.5gr 2682 ES 11 SD 5
90.0gr 2706 ES 22 SD 11
90.5gr 2724 ES 22 SD 11
91.0gr 2735 ES 17 SD 8
91.5gr 2756 ES 52 SD 28
92.0gr 2767 ES 28 SD 16
92.5gr 2773 ES 11 SD 6

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[Blackbrush]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

How many rounds did you fire with each charge please?
What were your ambient conditions?
How far off the lands?
Groups?

Thanks

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gabbott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many rounds did you fire with each charge please?
What were your ambient conditions?
How far off the lands?
Groups?

Thanks </div></div>

I had 5 rounds per powder charge. it was 72deg that day and humidity was 33% and pressure was 29.56in.

.020 off the lands + or - .003

My groups were big at first about 1 to1.5 inches at 150 yards. because I was trying to get use to the recoil. I have noticed my group were getting tighter after about 70 rounds through it. I heard after 200 rounds the barrel is ready to go.

 

[bcrich]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Joediesel, what is your coal being .020 off the lands with the 300g bergers (base to tip) I need to find the right load with my 338 savage. Best groups have been with 88.5g using the 300g smk

 

[targaflorio]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Those are good numbers. Which load are you going to run with? Is this the only powder you've tried with the Berger 300s?
I just ordered some 215s and 230s for my 300 Win Mag. I got H1000 and RL22 and have read good things about Retumbo.
150 yds seems short to be testing 300 gr bullets out of a 338. Is that all you have to work with? I use 300 yds for my winmag...

 

[The Animal]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

H1000 is an excellent powder. I use it in a number of magnum cartridges.

With that 338LM cartridge and bullet combo, you might want to try out Vit N570. You'll find that it will give you good results with faster velocities and lower pressure.

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcrich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Joediesel, what is your coal being .020 off the lands with the 300g bergers (base to tip) I need to find the right load with my 338 savage. Best groups have been with 88.5g using the 300g smk </div></div>

3.705

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: targaflorio</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those are good numbers. Which load are you going to run with? Is this the only powder you've tried with the Berger 300s?
I just ordered some 215s and 230s for my 300 Win Mag. I got H1000 and RL22 and have read good things about Retumbo.
150 yds seems short to be testing 300 gr bullets out of a 338. Is that all you have to work with? I use 300 yds for my winmag... </div></div>

I'm going to run with 92.0. I heard Retumbo is a dirty powder, I would stick with H1000 or maybe N570. H1000 a much cleaner powder.I only use Berger bullets so far. At 150yards I just need a reference point and to set my scope. With this savage 338 rifle I'm not going to shot anything under 600 yards. I only put 100 rounds through this rifle and only shot two distance. 150 yards and 1650 yards. I'm very pleased.

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Animal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">H1000 is an excellent powder. I use it in a number of magnum cartridges.

With that 338LM cartridge and bullet combo, you might want to try out Vit N570. You'll find that it will give you good results with faster velocities and lower pressure. </div></div>

With the information that I found and taking to some of my buddy's that have tried N570, they all went back to H1000. I would like to try N570 to see for myself.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Retumbo is a very dirty powder... However, it is very reliable and very stable. I use it in my 7mm Rem Mag, pushin' 168gr Bergers at 3100fps and can cover my groups with a dime.

I'm going to be trying out the H1000/Berger combo in my Savage this weekend, thanks to joediesel and his data, I should have more satisfying results and not have to do it twice...

I will also be trying US869 with 300 SMK's. We'll see how that goes...

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageLapua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Retumbo is a very dirty powder... However, it is very reliable and very stable. I use it in my 7mm Rem Mag, pushin' 168gr Bergers at 3100fps and can cover my groups with a dime.

I'm going to be trying out the H1000/Berger combo in my Savage this weekend, thanks to joediesel and his data, I should have more satisfying results and not have to do it twice...

I will also be trying US869 with 300 SMK's. We'll see how that goes... </div></div>

Your welcome, please post any updates.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Well, finally made it out to the range this weekend... Shot off the bergers on saturday... No chrono data unfortunately... Testing at 200 yards, groups were a lot worse than I had expected, but I think I know why... When I had measured to the lands I came up with 2.904" and was seating at 2.894". Last night I thought I'd measure it again and came up with 2.980"! Holy Hell! Fail... So I'm going to head out again this coming weekend.

 

[Hoverp]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

You mean 2.980 to the lands?

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Yeah... When I fisrt measured it with my Hornady OAL Gauge, I went to the very first stop, which, as it turns out, is not the lands... Life lesson learned.

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Huh. I get about 3.835" with the Berger 300gr Hybrid.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

That'd be to the tip of the bullet... I'm measuring to the ogive with a bullet comparator... Guess I should've mentioned that...

 

[Hoverp]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

In my rifle I measure 3.815 to the tip of the 300 g berger, seated just touching the lands.


So for mag length I'll be about .50 - 70 off depending on how close I want to seat the bullet to the front edge of the magazine. My comfort zone is about 3.745 which should be enough to keep the tips from getting touched by the front of the magazine during recoil. Hopefully the burgers can shoot launching that far off the lands. If not then I'll single load. Or go to SMK .

 

[michael_aos]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Is it odd that we're not getting the same number?

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

I hear ya on the Bergers being too long... I'd be in that neck of the woods too. I also remember that I seated them to fit in the mag... I was at the range this last saturday, shooting at 200, depending on the load, some of the groups were 3" to 4"... Some of the others shrunk right down to 1", I had a 3 shot clover leaf with 92.5... The same with the SMK's and US869 (103gr) seems my rifle likes the warm loads...

Michael, it's not nessecarily odd, there are a few reasons we see different lengths, this is why we have to measure our own chamberings...

Reason 1: Factory chambers will be cut to SAAMI Standards, these standards have a tolerance and chambers will vary from minimum to maximum, depending where your rifle was on the line. They vary because when the reamer is new, it will be on the max side, as it's used, it wears, eventually getting to the minimum side.

Reason 2: After hundreds of shots, you may find that the lands are migrating... Due to throat erosion, especially on magnums like these.

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hoverp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my rifle I measure 3.815 to the tip of the 300 g berger, seated just touching the lands.


So for mag length I'll be about .50 - 70 off depending on how close I want to seat the bullet to the front edge of the magazine. My comfort zone is about 3.745 which should be enough to keep the tips from getting touched by the front of the magazine during recoil. Hopefully the burgers can shoot launching that far off the lands. If not then I'll single load. Or go to SMK . </div></div>

On my 110ba about 3.735 from the tip to the lands the lands.This is before I broken in the barrel.

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageLapua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, finally made it out to the range this weekend... Shot off the bergers on saturday... No chrono data unfortunately... Testing at 200 yards, groups were a lot worse than I had expected, but I think I know why... When I had measured to the lands I came up with 2.904" and was seating at 2.894". Last night I thought I'd measure it again and came up with 2.980"! Holy Hell! Fail... So I'm going to head out again this coming weekend. </div></div>

Thanks for the update,let us know what happens next weekend.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

200 yards, 0.934"-0.338"=0.596"/2= 0.298 MOA not too shabby!

But then I noticed this...................

So, I was out on the weekend... Playing with seating depth after I found, what I thought was the ideal charge wait... never notice the ejector marks until I took these pictures. I'd say I'm just a little over pressure... Dammit... Guess it's back to the drawing board.

Here is the load that I got the group with:

New Lapua Brass
300gr Bergers
92.0gr H1000
CCI 250 Mag
0.030" Jump (2.950" Base to Ogive)

Thoughts?

Also, this afternoon, I stopped in at Wholesale Sports, I asked for the .338 Berger Hybrids. Buddy at the counter asks "What are you shooting these in?", I says "110 Savage, Lapua, that is." He goes on to tell me that he's spoken to Berger and he saw it on their site as well, that Berger admits to making a mistake in the construction and marketing of these bullets. Says that they were actually ment for a .338 Edge, due to rate of twist and what not... I said "They seem to shoot well so far out of my rifle." And that I know of enough people to be shooting them out of Lapuas that are successful and happy with them, that I would continue on the same track...

Any thoughts on this? Joe, I'm sure you'll have something to say about that

 

[71firebird400]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SavageLapua</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, this afternoon, I stopped in at Wholesale Sports, I asked for the .338 Berger Hybrids. Buddy at the counter asks "What are you shooting these in?", I says "110 Savage, Lapua, that is." He goes on to tell me that he's spoken to Berger and he saw it on their site as well, that Berger admits to making a mistake in the construction and marketing of these bullets. Says that they were actually ment for a .338 Edge, due to rate of twist and what not... I said "They seem to shoot well so far out of my rifle." And that I know of enough people to be shooting them out of Lapuas that are successful and happy with them, that I would continue on the same track...

Any thoughts on this? Joe, I'm sure you'll have something to say about that </div></div>

Sounds like the guys who work at your gun shop are about a thousand times smarter than the ones at mine! The Gen 1 Bergers had a nose slump issue at higher velocities. It's been resolved with the Gen 2 bullets, Berger posted an explanation at the time.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Oh, I was made aware of that before I even bought my first box o' bullets. Still doesn't make a lot of sense to me though...

 

[71firebird400]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

If you were aware of it, then why did you ask?

From Berger-

"The exact threshold of pressure/acceleration that will cause nose slump with this bullet is not known. There are a number of small to medium capacity cartridges that shoot these bullets very well, with extremely good precision and a repeatable BC. So far there have been no reported cases of nose slump with cartridges in the following class: .338 Winchester Mag, .338 Norma Mag, .338 RUM, and .338 Edge, etc.
The .338 Lapua Mag seems to be a borderline case which may or may not produce nose slump. Factors that affect pressure/acceleration will affect the likeliness of nose slump occurring. For example, ball powders are typically faster burning than stick powders, so they produce higher peak pressures, and are more likely to produce nose slump. Tighter bores can also cause elevated pressures and tip the scales toward nose slump."

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

AH! I was aware of the Gen I/Gen II situation. And that the Gen II's were supposed to preform better out of the Lapua. I was aware of the nose slump issue... However, I thought that the issue was the same across the board.

My bad, Thanks for the clarification though!

 

[joediesel81]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Yeah,what the guy said is true about Berger gen 1 bullets. The new 300gr hybrid gen 2 dont have that problem any more. I went to shot show 2weeks ago and I have talk to Mr Walt Berger himself, Walt said the 300gr hybrid were made for the 338LM. He also recommend to seat the bullet at .020 to start and work your way up to .060. Berger said they may come out with a new long nose 338 bullet for a high B.C. some where around .910. I cant confirm or deny it, but i hope it true. Sierra bullets may do the same thing.

Good shooting. 91.5gr to 92.0gr is were I got my best groups. Your pictures of your brass looks like mine. You have few light ejector marks.he savage chamber are very tight. I wound't worry about it. All primers look good and they are not flat. You can back off .3 to .5 gr. At 92.0 gr I get 2767 fps and 91.5 I get about 2756 fps. So that only a 11 fps difference. Thanks for your input. Its time to take it out to the mile mark.

Take care
Joe.

 

[SavageLapua]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

Thanks Joe, I PM'd Bryan Litz also and he cleared up any confusion for me. Glad to see that I'm right in where I should be... Looks like I'll be heading out to my extrended range... Hopefully in the next couple weeks.

 

[Hoverp]

Re: 300gr Bergers and H1000

From the pics, those primers look cratered. Could just be your pin though.