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300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

psinclair

psinclair

Gunny Sergeant
Commercial Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 11, 2008
3,394
538
66
Glasgow, Montana
338LMtest001JPG.jpg


My load workup started at 100 meters checking for ES and seating depth. They liked to "jump" 10 thou. But 100 meters doesn't always tell the whole story...

338LMsteel009JPG.jpg


This five shot group was at 788 meters. Showing promise!! There was a slight breeze right to left. Top to bottom looked good.

group001-1.jpg


Closer look at the AR 500 plate...

This morning I went out and shot, starting at 900M, 1110M then to 1700 meters, recording my runups. After tweaking JBM at home, it looks like a G7 of 0.422 did the trick....velocity is 2838fps. I had three shots in 12" circle on a large granite
rock at 1700 meters.

The barrel is a 28" Bartlein MTU, 1-9.7"
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

(Sigh)........looks like I gotta put at least "one" of those .338's together now.
Nice shooting
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Some nice shooting there your Bartlein and the berger hybrid seem to be working mighty well.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Very nice shooting! I have been shooting the 300 Berger Gen 2 Hybrids in my .338 LM. I have found the G7 of .421 to be close with my velocity. Were you indeed shooting VLD's or were they the Hybrid Gen 2 OTM's as well?

Thanks
Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice shooting! I have been shooting the 300 Berger Gen 2 Hybrids in my .338 LM. I have found the G7 of .421 to be close with my velocity. Were you indeed shooting VLD's or were they the Hybrid Gen 2 OTM's as well?

Thanks
Jeff </div></div>

I was told by berger that there was only <span style="font-weight: bold">one </span>300gr Gen2 berger??
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Very nice shooting! I have been shooting the 300 Berger Gen 2 Hybrids in my .338 LM. I have found the G7 of .421 to be close with my velocity. Were you indeed shooting VLD's or were they the Hybrid Gen 2 OTM's as well?

Thanks
Jeff </div></div>

Thanks Jeff, They were/are the Gen 2 OTM's. I waited until they(Berger) got the bugs out from the first go. It was a wait worthwhile!

What are you driving them at? Barrel length?

FWIW, my come ups for 1700 meters with a 200 meter zero is 18.0 mils.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

PGS, I shot about 250 of the gen 1's and now have about 250 of the gen 2's down range. I have sent them to 2300 yards and about everywhere in between. I have a 27 1/2" Lilja 10 twist. 92.5 gr of H-1000 gets me 2800 @ 4000 feet alt.

These shoot so good I don't know if I will try the 300 VLD's when they come out with them or not.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

@PGS... your rightmost 0.252" group... what was the bullet jump there...? Looked like this was the most deeply seated bullet of the three groups, right?

I am still learning about the vagaries of 338LM even though I'm on my second 338 platform, and hundreds of rounds in (yeah it doesn't sound like much, but at $6 a round...). One thing I learned is that even if a 100 yard group is 0.8 MOA, you shouldn't worry with the 338LM. So I agree that 100 yard groups does not tell the interesting story.

I was worried that my new rifle wasn't as accurate as it was made out to be. However, then we went shooting at long distances, and 900 group maintained sub MOA... ok that was cool. But at 1600 we were amazed with the tack driver accuracy... like most shots were within 6" of POA. If I wasn't there doing it, I wouldn't have believed others saying such things. This was a 300 Lapua Scenar, seated more than 50thou in order to sit in the magazine.

It seems that the 338LM large grain bullets with high BC and SD stabilize the more time they get in some sweet spot of the time of flight. I really can't explain it. How does the group get tighter at much farther distances. Defies common sense. But it happened to us.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@PGS... your rightmost 0.252" group... what was the bullet jump there...? Looked like this was the most deeply seated bullet of the three groups, right?

I am still learning about the vagaries of 338LM even though I'm on my second 338 platform, and hundreds of rounds in (yeah it doesn't sound like much, but at $6 a round...). One thing I learned is that even if a 100 yard group is 0.8 MOA, you shouldn't worry with the 338LM. So I agree that 100 yard groups does not tell the interesting story.

I was worried that my new rifle wasn't as accurate as it was made out to be. However, then we went shooting at long distances, and 900 group maintained sub MOA... ok that was cool. But at 1600 we were amazed with the tack driver accuracy... like most shots were within 6" of POA. If I wasn't there doing it, I wouldn't have believed others saying such things. This was a 300 Lapua Scenar, seated more than 50thou in order to sit in the magazine.

It seems that the 338LM large grain bullets with high BC and SD stabilize the more time they get in some sweet spot of the time of flight. I really can't explain it. How does the group get tighter at much farther distances. Defies common sense. But it happened to us. </div></div>

You are correct, I started at the lands and worked back. They shot the best at 10 thou off the lands. The COAL is long at 3.830" and I'm shooting single shot. Actually with my AI mags, I can get one under the bolt and one in the chamber. It's not a big deal to me hand feeding them though. To me, shooting way out there is a deliberate business and I dont mind feeding the XL Surgeon action one at a time....
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

What amazes me is that the conventional wisdom says to seat at the lands, yet I am 57 thou off the lands, and accuracy is very satisfactory, esp at longest ranges.
We don't buy 338LMs to make tight groups at 100 yards... that's a ridiculous application for these guns. We buy them to do business at 1000+ yards, that's where the rubber meets the road.

I like putting six rounds in my my mags... I used to single feed too, but now I want to practice getting back on the gun faster and seeing if I can put subsequent rounds faster with corrections from spotter.

btw, doesn't it take quite a bit of time for your steel to settle once you hit, given those springs... why not just use chain which would dampen quicker?
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

338LMsteel003JPG.jpg


You mean like this?......grin! The Lapua is a little hard on mild steel. Rubber ropes survive more hits than chain and they're cheaper.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

PGS, nice group esp if at 788 meters!

I see... rubber straps... I thought they were springs first time I looked at the pic.
Most of our chain is behind the AR500 and it was the T stakes that caught a couple sighters and almost fell in half. Yeah mild steel is no fun... no ringing, no swinging, bullets just drill right through it.

0481, yeah, that was the most fun shooting to date. Must do again soon.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

nice work... pics are getting me anxious for my 338NM, looks like the hybrids are working well for you, i plan on using the 300gr OTM.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skinney</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> i plan on using the 300gr OTM. </div></div>

The Hybrid Gen 2's are one in the same with the OTM's. I am betting your 338 NM likes them. They have shot great in every thing I have seen them in, and even going subsonic.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Sitting in the sand box waiting to hear that all the parts are at the smiths' and put together........ dang this is worse than waiting for christmas morning as a child!!!! I also have 5oo otms waiting to do some work! Fantastic shooting and good info on seating depth.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What amazes me is that the conventional wisdom says to seat at the lands, yet I am 57 thou off the lands, and accuracy is very satisfactory, esp at longest ranges.
We don't buy 338LMs to make tight groups at 100 yards... that's a ridiculous application for these guns. We buy them to do business at 1000+ yards, that's where the rubber meets the road.

I like putting six rounds in my my mags... I used to single feed too, but now I want to practice getting back on the gun faster and seeing if I can put subsequent rounds faster with corrections from spotter.

btw, doesn't it take quite a bit of time for your steel to settle once you hit, given those springs... why not just use chain which would dampen quicker? </div></div>

I tell guys that seating the bullet to touch the lands or stuffing it into the lands does not guarantee you better accuracy. Usually it does but not always. You have to play with your gun/barrel and seating depths to find out.

I usually start my guns .010" off the lands and go from there.

My .338 Lapua on my test rifle and shooting some box Ruag 250gr. and 300gr. factory loaded ammo. I don't remember the dimensions for how much the 250gr. bullets had to jump to the rifling but the 300gr. bullets I do remember where jumping .100". Yes a .100" not .010. Both factory rounds shot great! The best 250gr ammo group came in at approx. .269" with one pulled round opening up the group to around a .450". All of the ammo both kinds (I only had 20 rounds of the 300gr and 40 rounds of the 250gr. ammo) I didn't have a group go over .750. All shooting was done at 100 yards.

I say up to .060" the gun can shoot better than touching the lands.

Play with the seating depth you will be surprised sometimes!

Nice gun and groups by the way!

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

@Frank, thanks for your quantitative input, very helpful.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@PGS... your rightmost 0.252" group... what was the bullet jump there...? Looked like this was the most deeply seated bullet of the three groups, right?

I am still learning about the vagaries of 338LM even though I'm on my second 338 platform, and hundreds of rounds in (yeah it doesn't sound like much, but at $6 a round...). One thing I learned is that even if a 100 yard group is 0.8 MOA, you shouldn't worry with the 338LM. So I agree that 100 yard groups does not tell the interesting story.

I was worried that my new rifle wasn't as accurate as it was made out to be. However, then we went shooting at long distances, and 900 group maintained sub MOA... ok that was cool. But at 1600 we were amazed with the tack driver accuracy... like most shots were within 6" of POA. If I wasn't there doing it, I wouldn't have believed others saying such things. This was a 300 Lapua Scenar, seated more than 50thou in order to sit in the magazine.

It seems that the 338LM large grain bullets with high BC and SD stabilize the more time they get in some sweet spot of the time of flight. I really can't explain it. How does the group get tighter at much farther distances. Defies common sense. But it happened to us. </div></div>

You are correct, I started at the lands and worked back. They shot the best at 10 thou off the lands. The COAL is long at 3.830" and I'm shooting single shot. Actually with my AI mags, I can get one under the bolt and one in the chamber. It's not a big deal to me hand feeding them though. To me, shooting way out there is a deliberate business and I dont mind feeding the XL Surgeon action one at a time.... </div></div>

PGS isn't this out of a Gap chambered .338lm? Cause I also have a Gap built Badger .338lm and don't think I could chamber a round that long.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

It is. I've put over 800 rounds through it and the lands are starting to flatten a bit....

I took it out this morning and shot at 1260 meters at a steel square of AR500. I'll post a pic of that....I about fell over after driving up to the plate and seeing how it shot.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

1260M001.jpg


Wind was out of the SE(8 oclock), steady at about 5mph. I held off exactly 1 mil. With a zero of 200 meters, I put in 10.6 mils elevation.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Now thats a group
wink.gif


Great shooting with the new berger 300gr
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

excellent group indeed. At first I could not understand your elevation correction, but then I read your units are mils, not MOA. Makes sense now.

That easily looks like half an MOA group. Do you attribute that to your rifle, or Berger bullet, or?
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

PGS is that the normal .338 LM chamber from GAP or did you have one with a longer free bore?
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PGS is that the normal .338 LM chamber from GAP or did you have one with a longer free bore? </div></div>

I didn't order it with a longer throat....it must be a standard reamer. I'll have to ask George for you. It's been shot enough that the throat is growing a bit.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">excellent group indeed. At first I could not understand your elevation correction, but then I read your units are mils, not MOA. Makes sense now.

That easily looks like half an MOA group. Do you attribute that to your rifle, or Berger bullet, or? </div></div>

It measured 5.5"...some luck thrown in there, no doubt. The rifle has always been a drill and I'm pretty finicky about my reloads.So far, those 300 Bergers are looking like a winner! And I do a lot of shooting...four or five times a week, sometimes more. Fringe benefits to the job I have.....grin! It doesn't hurt to live where you can drive a few miles out of town and shoot as far as you want on BLM ground either.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TimResin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">PGS is that the normal .338 LM chamber from GAP or did you have one with a longer free bore? </div></div>

I didn't order it with a longer throat....it must be a standard reamer. I'll have to ask George for you. It's been shot enough that the throat is growing a bit. </div></div>

Mines getting re barreled right now. I originally had the CIP chamber but I thought i remembered George telling me he only did SAMMI specs?
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It measured 5.5"...some luck thrown in there, no doubt. The rifle has always been a drill and I'm pretty finicky about my reloads.So far, those 300 Bergers are looking like a winner! And I do a lot of shooting...four or five times a week, sometimes more. Fringe benefits to the job I have.....grin! It doesn't hurt to live where you can drive a few miles out of town and shoot as far as you want on BLM ground either. </div></div>

Impressive, I hope to repeat those results, and it may be possible given recent shooting results, but I don't get out as often as you do! I know the grass is always greener concept, but Montana sure sounds like heaven to me.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Thats some bad ass shooting and a very accurate rifle, very nice PGS.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Outstanding! I may have to give those bergers a look! Great shooting Pat
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

It amazes me how far off the lands a bullet can be a shoot good. I have loaded them .100" off the lands with great success. Was amazed. Tried the extream to see what I would get.

Great shooting. Am looking forward to owning a 338LM soon. Even at the cost to shoot them.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

I'm glad Berger finally got the 300 grainers' back on the market.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

When I download Bergers ballistic sw, and input in 0.338" and 300 grains into it with MV of 2730, it comes out with what must be wrong calcs. Has anyone used their sw or does Berger provide a G7 drag curve for input into Shooter et al?
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">does Berger provide a G7 drag curve for input into Shooter et al? </div></div>

Their advertised G7 BC of .419 will get you close for the 300gr Gen 2 Hybrid OTM's. I have had to fudge a small amount toward .421 sometimes. That will get you out past 1000 with shooter. Then to be spot on with in 1/2 moa I had to start using stepped BC's.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Jeff what kind of steps in the BC where you having to use? I have a batch of these bullets loaded up for load development, thus I'm interested.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sounds like the G7 is working better than the G1 for this .... </div></div>

Well, I can't honestly say for sure. This kind of tuning I feel should be done with one combination of rifle , shooter, ammo and rangefinder. Then obtaining the exact drops buy shooting a few groups at each distance. The more different distances the better but at least every 200 yards. I like to only accept drop data from groups of 1/2 moa if possible. I also like to do this on as flat of range as I can so the angle of the shot is at zero. I don't want the posibility of a calculated shot being off in the program. I also try to shoot all data drops in the same azmuth direction for the same reason. To eliminate as many variables as possible. Once all actual drop data is recorded into a log book, I then start the process of checking drops from my program and fine tuning velocity and BC's to make it all match up. This is best done alone in a quiet area at night. LOL. I am now using shooter, but plan to run all this through my old NF exball program with stepped G1's too. As you can see, this can take quite a bit of time. Right now I have about an hour window in the am and PM where mirage will allow for accurate testing. Then you have to pick the days where the wind is low.

I am by no means a mathmetician but at this point I can not see why using this method, either G1 or G7 would be equally as accurate. I think if only one BC was to be used then the G7 might be a better choice.

The process is easy to 1200 ~ 1500 yards. But when you go out from there it becomes more time consuming.

I feel there is no "free lunch". This is not something anyone can lend to you by saying for example Use a G1 of .820 down to 2000 fps then use .800 down to 1700 and then ect. Borrowing data has not worked for me. Well, not "spot on" LOL, that is an interesting term. "Spot on" to some is a dust ball off a 3 moa rock at 1500 yards which is hard to really tell how far off point of aim it really was. To me "spot on" is within 1/2 moa at any distance, and on a target I can walk up to with a tape measure and get true results from point of aim.

Longshot, I hope this will help you with your load and drop development. Some rifles are different than others. Get some drops and go from there. Then you will know your data is accurate.

Sorry for the long post.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

The 1st edition of Litz's book reported the projected/estimated G7 (the bullets weren't available yet) of the 300 VLD at .468, and the 300 Hybrid at .456. I don't know which of the 2 bullets is the one that was shot by the OP. What does the 2nd edition of Litz's book say about the 300 VLD or Hybrid in terms of G7?
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't know which of the 2 bullets is the one that was shot by the OP. </div></div>

I do not believe the VLD version is released yet. So unless the OP is testing for Berger he is shooting the Hybrid OTM as am I.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

I think stepped BC's varying with velocity is the only way to get any true accuracy from ballistics software. It's intuitive that the BC can change with velocity, and in fact it does. That's why Lapua provides a radar measured drag curve, which directly translates to BCs. That drag curve varies with velocity.

G7 profile obviously is more appropriate than G1 for any of these 338 caliber low drag shapes. But these are just constants in an equation... you can tweak a series of G1 coefficients to give you the same results as a G7 series.

In the end, what I want to know from Berger, is do they provide a measured drag curve or series of drag points vs velocity for their bullet. Like Lapua does. WIthout that I have to burn alot of rounds doing what Jeff is doing to derive ex post his own G1/G7 coefficients. Too expensive with Lapua.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Do you find stepped G7 BC provided by Bryan Litz sufficient? They seem to work for me fine.

What I'm missing is drag data in transonic area - couldn't find anywhere.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

Where do you get Bryan's G7 BC from? I can't now remember where I got my 300 gn Scenar stepped BC's from, but they seem to work quite well in Shooter.

On the Lapua QTU app, there is a complete (almost continuous) drag function covering below, above and transonic speeds, and it doesn't seem noticeably more accurate... Shooter and QTU seem to agree pretty closely. I need to spend more time sifting thru apple to apple comparisons to see. But presumably the Lapua QTU should provide best possible data for Lapua bullets, given they supply these radar measured drag curves.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you find stepped G7 BC provided by Bryan Litz sufficient? They seem to work for me fine.

What I'm missing is drag data in transonic area - couldn't find anywhere. </div></div>

The stepped BC's offered are a huge help to get you close. But again what are we talking here? 1 moa, 2 moa? How are the results measured? Dust ball off a rock or holes in a target? I am striving for 1/2 moa as far as my rifle and I can repeatably do this. With these 300 Bergers it has been exteded well past what we could do with the 300 smk's. As indicated by the awesome sooting of the OP "PGS". As far as subsonic goes, I have found that these 300 Bergers will hold 1 moa after the transition. But again this kind of shooting requires perfect conditions and a strict shooting disciplin.

To be spot on I still feel one needs to do all the work with the same shooter, rifle and ammo. Then fine tune. The proof is in the pudding. I have found that even with the best chronograh, or 2 or 3 chronographs, ES in the single digets and any given BC that tweeking is required to be "spot on" which again to me is a measuable 1/2 moa.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rocky Mountain</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I was told by berger that there was only <span style="font-weight: bold">one </span>300gr Gen2 berger?? </div></div>

I believe that is correct at this time. But it is my understanding a "VLD" version is coming at some point.

Jeff
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do you get Bryan's G7 BC from?</div></div>
From his book: Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting 2nd Edition Book by Bryan Litz. I think you're about to receive your own copy!
wink.gif

Group Buy is running here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the Lapua QTU app, there is a complete (almost continuous) drag function covering below, above and transonic speeds, and it doesn't seem noticeably more accurate... Shooter and QTU seem to agree pretty closely. I need to spend more time sifting thru apple to apple comparisons to see. But presumably the Lapua QTU should provide best possible data for Lapua bullets, given they supply these radar measured drag curves.</div></div>
To me hearing that Lapua QTU isn't noticeably more accurate despite using direct drag data obtained from radar measurements is very shocking, to say the least.
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I don't know which of the 2 bullets is the one that was shot by the OP. </div></div>

I do not believe the VLD version is released yet. So unless the OP is testing for Berger he is shooting the Hybrid OTM as am I.

Jeff </div></div>

338box001.jpg


These are what I'm shooting....sorry for the confusion about them being VLD's...
 
Re: 300gr VLD Hybrid@ 1700M

I agree Mouse that QTU should be more accurate. And like I said, I need to drill down on this more. So far, and this is very limited data set, for shooting out at 1600 yards, Shooter was very close with about 5 steps of G7 BCs. And Lapua QTU seemed like it was about 1MOA off from where Shooter predicted. But I am having a hard time getting all the atmospheric data sorted out, because unlike Shooter, QTU will not allow rifle zero conditions to be different than current shooting conditions. This really sucks, because it means you have to effectively zero the rifle again during each shooting session. So struggling to get apple to apple comparisons could cause QTU and Shooter not to agree.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mouse07410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the Lapua QTU app, there is a complete (almost continuous) drag function covering below, above and transonic speeds, and it doesn't seem noticeably more accurate... Shooter and QTU seem to agree pretty closely. I need to spend more time sifting thru apple to apple comparisons to see. But presumably the Lapua QTU should provide best possible data for Lapua bullets, given they supply these radar measured drag curves.</div></div>
To me hearing that Lapua QTU isn't noticeably more accurate despite using direct drag data obtained from radar measurements is very shocking, to say the least. </div></div>
 
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