.308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

[BeEzLeBoSs]

Hello everyone,

I was hoping to get some opinions on a few things. I'm looking for a good 1000 yard shooter in a .308. After talking with many people at the gun store (who work there), I was told to go with a Rock River LAR-8, free float it and get a good scope, and buy good ammo (obviously). That in mind I haven't been able to decide on a few things. I want the best of both worlds on this, stopping power at 1000, and accuracy. I'd really like to shoot at least.5 MOA at 100 yards. So from what I've heard a bull barrel is the way to go for accuracy. I've heard 20" is good enough especially if its bull barrel, bc there is enough powder burn so you get enough velocity and such at 1000 to stop someone easy. So all this being said, I'm guessing i should go with the bull barrel, but what minimum barrel length will meet my standards of accuracy and stopping power. Also, I plan on shooting 168g hornady match ammunition, or equivalent.

If anyone has any ideas on a different gun that will achieve this I'm trying to stay in the $1,300 price range, besides scope, free float, etc.

Thank you everyone! These questions have baffled me for some time now.

 

[mtrmn]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

"I don' know but I been tole" that anything gained past 20" is minimal at best. I DO NOT POSITIVELY KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE, but I bet it's a close call. Will the round stay supersonic at 1k? There are guys a lot better than me on here that will have to answer that. The 175's will probably beat the 168's at that range.
I do know the LAR8's have a good rep with accuracy and the heavier profile bbl the better. The only real drawback I have with the RRA's is their dependence on FN FAL mags, although they have come out with their own plastic mags which are SUPPOSED to be better.

 

[KillShot]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

Out to 600yds, the 168gr stabilizes faster but beyond that distance, the 175gr Sierra Match King really shines.

In my opinion, a 20" vs 24" barrel, the most you're gonna notice is the weight because the difference in isn't significant.

There are PLENTY of 20" barrels that are not 'bull barrels' which are 1/2 MOA accurate but if you're wanting a semi-auto rifle with that kind of accuracy for $1300, that may very well be a stretch.

 

[BeEzLeBoSs]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

So a 175g would perform better out around 1000? I only chose that round bc it's the standard sniper round used by the military, and I figured if they use it for 1000 yard sniping, particularly through the m40 then it must perform pretty well.

And that's the average price of rock river's lar 8, and they guarantee a 1 moa out of box, but from what I've read online they perform better than that. And that's before free floating.

But thanks for the opinions on the barrels, I think I'll stick with a 20" cuz I've read the same just about everywhere, you don't notice a difference after 20 inches. And I'll probably go a head and go with a bull barrel just bc of their reputation with accuracy, and I don't mind the weight.

 

[SIG700]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

Yes, a 175g SMK will outshine a 168g, especially past 600 yards. As for your "military ammo" comment I quoted below, the M118LR, which is what is now used, is loaded with a 175g bullets.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeEzLeBoSs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I only chose that round (Referring to 168g) bc it's the standard sniper round used by the military, and I figured if they use it for 1000 yard sniping, particularly through the m40 then it must perform pretty well. </div></div>

Also may want to consider a 155g. I've never personally experimented with them (yet), however many here will swear by them.

 

[10ringping]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

Heavier for over 600. 168 is great up to 600. After that move up to a 175. Or only use 175

 

[512BPG]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

i dont have enough real data on this process but can tell you what ive found.

bought a dpms lr308 with the 24" stainless. ordered with the jp trigger, a4upper, a2 stock (just replaced last night), and has a leupold vx3l 6.5-20x56 on it for now.

shot a lot of hornady zmax 168s (same as match a max im told and says match on the brass) and its been extremely accurate at 100 and dead on on steel at 250 and 500 (boring sometimes actually because its so dead on.)

read LOTS about barrel length and knew i wanted a brake on it to be able to spot shots when zoomed to 20x and decided to cut the barrel to 18 (lotta people told me to not go under 20 but i dont listen very well).

i havent replicated my initial 100yard shooting (same ammo, same setup, same range) but at the close to me outdoor range at 100 with windy conditions it was as accurate if not more with the same ammo. i am now loading that brass with 168gr amax over 44g of varget but plan to experiment more and am about to venture into 175g smk's since theyre the hot blonde girl that everyone talks about on these sites...

long story short, i am VERY happy with my choices so far and feel like cutting 6 inches off the barrel and adding the brake made it a more mobile, lightweight firearm with equal accuracy for the ranges im mostly shooting. im planning on reaching out to 750 and 1000 but i didnt do that initially so i cant comment on the before/after with the barrel chop.

this shows you the difference in length from original to chopped with brake

 

[512BPG]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heavier for over 600. 168 is great up to 600. After that move up to a 175. Or only use 175 </div></div>

how are 175 at 500 and under? id like to stick with "1 round for all" but know that may not be an option.

 

[SIG700]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 512BPG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heavier for over 600. 168 is great up to 600. After that move up to a 175. Or only use 175 </div></div>

how are 175 at 500 and under? id like to stick with "1 round for all" but know that may not be an option. </div></div>

I've found the 168 and 175 are pretty similar out to 600. Each 100 yards the 175 seems to get a hair better than 168, however its mostly unnoticeable until the 600 mark. Once you hit the 600 mark its a little easier to see the 175 advantage.

So to answer your question bluntly, @ 500 and under, 175 performs just as well, or better, than 168. YMMV, however I doubt it.

 

[512BPG]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIG700</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 512BPG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 10ringping</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Heavier for over 600. 168 is great up to 600. After that move up to a 175. Or only use 175 </div></div>

how are 175 at 500 and under? id like to stick with "1 round for all" but know that may not be an option. </div></div>

I've found the 168 and 175 are pretty similar out to 600. Each 100 yards the 175 seems to get a hair better than 168, however its mostly unnoticeable until the 600 mark. Once you hit the 600 mark its a little easier to see the 175 advantage.

So to answer your question bluntly, @ 500 and under, 175 performs just as well, or better, than 168. YMMV, however I doubt it. </div></div>

awesome. looks like ill be loading up the rest of my 168s but moving to 175s pretty soon.

got a charge you like for them? specific brass? primers?

not trying to hijack sorry!

 

[SIG700]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

512 Check your inbox

 

[BeEzLeBoSs]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

Ok thanks for the help on that. I think I'll have to buy the 175's instead. I had heard from a former mercenary that the standard load was 168 for .308 snipers, of course that was almost 3 years ago that he was a merc so i probably shouldnt have taken that to heart, thanks for verifying that with me.

Seen as how the 168's and 175's are only a 7g difference, are there any grouping changes? i would imagine it would only be vertical change, and easy to compensate for if i decided to shoot both for different yardages.

 

[Dynamic Response]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

the title should say 16 or 24 lol. There is hardly any velocity loss from 20in to a 16in barrel. You might lose 30fps. So I would either get the 16 or 24. I would lean towards the 16in to keep it lighter. If you are not worried about weight go with the 24in. Thats my opinion.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

Very little is gained going from 18" to 20", at least thats what I tell my girlfriend.

 

[gyz77]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

A friend of mine shoots 155 Berger bullets out to 1k. He swears by them!! I have always shot 175 and 168 but never past 500. I'm about to start shooting some matches with him. I want to use my 16" EMC!!! We will see!!!

 

[johngfoster]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BeEzLeBoSs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So a 175g would perform better out around 1000? I only chose that round bc it's the standard sniper round used by the military, and I figured if they use it for 1000 yard sniping, particularly through the m40 then it must perform pretty well.

And that's the average price of rock river's lar 8, and they guarantee a 1 moa out of box, but from what I've read online they perform better than that. And that's before free floating.

But thanks for the opinions on the barrels, I think I'll stick with a 20" cuz I've read the same just about everywhere, you don't notice a difference after 20 inches. And I'll probably go a head and go with a bull barrel just bc of their reputation with accuracy, and I don't mind the weight. </div></div>

A few things: the standard military "sniping" round is actually a 175gr SMK that is shot from the M40 or M24 (in 308). If you are wanting to reach beyond 600yd, you do better with the heavier round, as the velocity drops off to go below the speed of sound before you get to 1000yd (with the 168's). The 175's carry their momentum better and go farther before loosing steam. Crossing the sound barrier makes a bullet unstable and accuracy dramatically declines (especially with the 168).

Second, if you have no experience with gas guns (ARs), then you will find that guarantee of 1 MOA tough to achieve. It takes quite a bit of practice to drive an AR10 to this level of accuracy. It can be done, but it's tough.

You may, with experience, get that kind of accuracy from a LAR308, but if you are demanding 0.5MOA, then you will more than likely need to sink a LOT more money into the system, not the least being ammo and trigger time. LaRue, LMT, LWRC, KAC, and GAP all make accurate AR10 platforms, but they are not cheap. Expect to at least double your budget just for the rifle, not counting optics.

 

[gyz77]

Re: .308 20" vs. 24" barrel, bull barrel or standard?

I shoot 168 and 175 out of my 16" KAC and it runs and proforms just fine!!