My apologies if this has been answered before, but I have a suppressor in ATF hell right now I'm unsuccessfully trying to forget about for 9 months. I'm thinking about coyote hunting at night/early morning in my backyard (yes, it's legal for me), but don't want to wake my kids and neighbors with a shot in the early morning. So I'm thinking subsonic hunting rounds. This will be for 120 yards or less range; I'm pretty sure no actual bullets besides cast lead will do anything but pencil through. I don't reload (yet), and see that SW ammo and Corbon sell subsonic factory ammo with the SMK. I'm thinking I can cut off the nose to flatten out the head, and not really worry that I'm wrecking the BC. Has anyone tried this? Are there other options to go with?
Suppressors 308 Subsonic Hunting
- Thread starter RFtinkerer
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Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
SOFT lead will mushroom, Lehigh Defense makes a custom subsonic only projectile. Upon impact it expands and functions much like a broadhead, not a rifle bullet.
You *could* take some 170gr 30-30 bullets (the flat nose kind for tube mags) and cut the lead out of some of the nose to insert an airsoft BB to act as an expansion driver (kind of like PowRBall pistol bullets)
Or, what I do with subsonic rifle hunting: Head shoot them if at all possible.
SOFT lead will mushroom, Lehigh Defense makes a custom subsonic only projectile. Upon impact it expands and functions much like a broadhead, not a rifle bullet.
You *could* take some 170gr 30-30 bullets (the flat nose kind for tube mags) and cut the lead out of some of the nose to insert an airsoft BB to act as an expansion driver (kind of like PowRBall pistol bullets)
Or, what I do with subsonic rifle hunting: Head shoot them if at all possible.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Thanks for the info, I've contacted them about the 308 ammo they are stating is coming out. Other than that, I CAN headshot them, just want to exercise all options.
Thanks for the info, I've contacted them about the 308 ammo they are stating is coming out. Other than that, I CAN headshot them, just want to exercise all options.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Check out Outlaw state bullets when you start reloading.
Check out Outlaw state bullets when you start reloading.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I'm pretty sure that since remington bought out AAC and suppressed rifles and 300 blackout are becoming more popular, There is going to be a bullet built just for subsonic hunting from one of the major bullet manufactures. I just wish they would hurry it the hell up.
I'm pretty sure that since remington bought out AAC and suppressed rifles and 300 blackout are becoming more popular, There is going to be a bullet built just for subsonic hunting from one of the major bullet manufactures. I just wish they would hurry it the hell up.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I have played with the 170gr flat point 30-30 bullets. They run nice and quiet with about 9.4gr of Trail Boss. Have not hunted with them but they look like they would make a nice hole.
I have played with the 170gr flat point 30-30 bullets. They run nice and quiet with about 9.4gr of Trail Boss. Have not hunted with them but they look like they would make a nice hole.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
You can run BT bullets seated backwards to punch a .3" wound channel (in contrast to regular pointed bullets, which subsonic seem to more just push tissue out of the way than leave a substantial wound channel).
I've been looking for options for subsonic expansion. Here's what I've found:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Remington had planned to develop a heavy .30" for its subsonic AAC loads by the end of this year. [*] Norma 180gr .30" Plastic Points are reported to expand at velocities as low as 500fps, but they haven't been imported to the U.S. yet. I've contacted Norma-USA several times about bringing some in but no luck yet.[*] http://www.outlawstatebullets.com/ -- custom/expensive[*] http://www.diamondbackcbf.com/ -- custom/expensive[*] http://lehighdefense.com/ -- product release supposedly imminent[*] Follow Bohem's lead: cast up to 250gr flat-nose with a soft alloy and use a crimped gas check. (I don't cast and haven't found anybody producing case bullets like that commercially yet.)[/list]
Action items:
1. Contact Norma-USA (Ron Petty: [email protected]) and ask them to import 180gr Plastic Points.
2. Contact your favorite cast-bullet manufacturer and ask them to add a .30" subsonic rifle special to their product line.
You can run BT bullets seated backwards to punch a .3" wound channel (in contrast to regular pointed bullets, which subsonic seem to more just push tissue out of the way than leave a substantial wound channel).
I've been looking for options for subsonic expansion. Here's what I've found:
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*] Remington had planned to develop a heavy .30" for its subsonic AAC loads by the end of this year. [*] Norma 180gr .30" Plastic Points are reported to expand at velocities as low as 500fps, but they haven't been imported to the U.S. yet. I've contacted Norma-USA several times about bringing some in but no luck yet.[*] http://www.outlawstatebullets.com/ -- custom/expensive[*] http://www.diamondbackcbf.com/ -- custom/expensive[*] http://lehighdefense.com/ -- product release supposedly imminent[*] Follow Bohem's lead: cast up to 250gr flat-nose with a soft alloy and use a crimped gas check. (I don't cast and haven't found anybody producing case bullets like that commercially yet.)[/list]
Action items:
1. Contact Norma-USA (Ron Petty: [email protected]) and ask them to import 180gr Plastic Points.
2. Contact your favorite cast-bullet manufacturer and ask them to add a .30" subsonic rifle special to their product line.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Try trail boss powder and a flat base bullet of your choice. I like the 170Gr 30-30 bullets.
Shoot for the head and good luck.
BTW Zero at 100 yards and hold up/down 1 mil (its actually about 1.1 mil)for every 25 yards from zero. Close enough for coyote shooting from 50-125 yards. Seems to work regardless of bullet weigh.
Try trail boss powder and a flat base bullet of your choice. I like the 170Gr 30-30 bullets.
Shoot for the head and good luck.
BTW Zero at 100 yards and hold up/down 1 mil (its actually about 1.1 mil)for every 25 yards from zero. Close enough for coyote shooting from 50-125 yards. Seems to work regardless of bullet weigh.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I played around with bullseye for a while, but the SD was too high, sometimes the rounds would go supersonic. Measuring out 8.2 grains with a PACT BBK 2 scale wasn't accurate enough. I now use a jeweler's scale (forget the brand name off hand, weighs down to 0.02 grains accuracy) and I'm using about 11.7 grains of Trailboss, Federal standard rifle primers, FC brass, and Sierra 180 grain RN flat base bullets, SD's around 9, velocity about 1150 from a Rem 700 PSS 26 inch barrel and a suppressor. I get a 5 mil drop at 100 yds. Have fun, YMMV.
I played around with bullseye for a while, but the SD was too high, sometimes the rounds would go supersonic. Measuring out 8.2 grains with a PACT BBK 2 scale wasn't accurate enough. I now use a jeweler's scale (forget the brand name off hand, weighs down to 0.02 grains accuracy) and I'm using about 11.7 grains of Trailboss, Federal standard rifle primers, FC brass, and Sierra 180 grain RN flat base bullets, SD's around 9, velocity about 1150 from a Rem 700 PSS 26 inch barrel and a suppressor. I get a 5 mil drop at 100 yds. Have fun, YMMV.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Engel Ballistic Research sells a subsonic .308 loading with a 180-gr round soft nosed bullet. I think it's a Hornady Interlock.
If you check them out, don't miss the FAQs, especially the one about the dangers of shooting subsonic ammunition through long barrels.
Engel Ballistic Research sells a subsonic .308 loading with a 180-gr round soft nosed bullet. I think it's a Hornady Interlock.
If you check them out, don't miss the FAQs, especially the one about the dangers of shooting subsonic ammunition through long barrels.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Engel Ballistic.....
If you check them out, don't miss the FAQs, especially the one about the dangers of shooting subsonic ammunition through long barrels. </div></div>
Link
http://www.ebr-inc.net/articles_subsonics-do-not-like-long-barrels.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fred_C_Dobbs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Engel Ballistic.....
If you check them out, don't miss the FAQs, especially the one about the dangers of shooting subsonic ammunition through long barrels. </div></div>
Link
http://www.ebr-inc.net/articles_subsonics-do-not-like-long-barrels.html
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
You are going to have to reload, and I would use these bullets.
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-160-gr-FTX-for-30-30-Win/
You are going to have to reload, and I would use these bullets.
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-160-gr-FTX-for-30-30-Win/
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Hineline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are going to have to reload, and I would use these bullets.
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-160-gr-FTX-for-30-30-Win/</div></div>
Dunno, I'm having sub-MOA accuracy with these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/589828/...nose-box-of-100
Seems like there's a LOT of ways to make these up.
THIS is a great place to start:
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: David Hineline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You are going to have to reload, and I would use these bullets.
http://www.hornady.com/store/30-Cal-.308-160-gr-FTX-for-30-30-Win/</div></div>
Dunno, I'm having sub-MOA accuracy with these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/589828/...nose-box-of-100
Seems like there's a LOT of ways to make these up.
THIS is a great place to start:
http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane1.html
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I think maybe you are worried to much about expansion vs. what your actually trying to kill. A subsonic .308 will hammer a yote at 120YDS or less easy enough. If a sub .308 will kill a 200lb. man it will have no problems killing a 35 pound dog!
I think maybe you are worried to much about expansion vs. what your actually trying to kill. A subsonic .308 will hammer a yote at 120YDS or less easy enough. If a sub .308 will kill a 200lb. man it will have no problems killing a 35 pound dog!
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I just tested the EBR loads; they shot like crap in my rifle. Too bad, they had the bullet style I wanted. Also contacted TTI with no response. I've just ordered 190 and 220 gn loads from Southwest, I'll see if I can get better accuracy with those. If so, I just may cut the tips off and flatten the heads for my project. Or I may give in and start reloading. I still have many many months to go before I need the solution.
I just tested the EBR loads; they shot like crap in my rifle. Too bad, they had the bullet style I wanted. Also contacted TTI with no response. I've just ordered 190 and 220 gn loads from Southwest, I'll see if I can get better accuracy with those. If so, I just may cut the tips off and flatten the heads for my project. Or I may give in and start reloading. I still have many many months to go before I need the solution.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think maybe you are worried to much about expansion vs. what your actually trying to kill. A subsonic .308 will hammer a yote at 120YDS or less easy enough. If a sub .308 will kill a 200lb. man it will have no problems killing a 35 pound dog! </div></div>
Probably quite true, I may be overworrying it. I'm for a quick kill...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kino</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think maybe you are worried to much about expansion vs. what your actually trying to kill. A subsonic .308 will hammer a yote at 120YDS or less easy enough. If a sub .308 will kill a 200lb. man it will have no problems killing a 35 pound dog! </div></div>
Probably quite true, I may be overworrying it. I'm for a quick kill...
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may help but I did a meat test with 220 Hornady RN and 210 Berger VLD's, the results were kind of a surprise to me, but they confirm what been said here. </div></div>
Interesting! Thanks for that test.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This may help but I did a meat test with 220 Hornady RN and 210 Berger VLD's, the results were kind of a surprise to me, but they confirm what been said here. </div></div>
Interesting! Thanks for that test.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
FYI, I melted the plastic out of some .30 208gr Hornady A-Max bullets. Makes them look like bona fide hollow-points. But these are how they look <span style="font-style: italic">after</span> recovery from a Fackler box:
(I shot them subsonic through a 1:8 bbl. They hit the water at 1020fps.)
FYI, I melted the plastic out of some .30 208gr Hornady A-Max bullets. Makes them look like bona fide hollow-points. But these are how they look <span style="font-style: italic">after</span> recovery from a Fackler box:
(I shot them subsonic through a 1:8 bbl. They hit the water at 1020fps.)
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
sounds to me like a .300 blkout is in order.
Savage/stevens .223 with new, threaded barrel screwed on
sounds to me like a .300 blkout is in order.
Savage/stevens .223 with new, threaded barrel screwed on
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I have had pretty good results with 170 grain 30-30 bullets out of my 308 with 8 grains of tight group. They were holding 1 1/2" at 100 yards and with the flat nose they should have no trouble expanding. The cool thing is, the bullets were so short that they stabilized in my 1:12 twist barrel. 30-30 bullets might be worth looking into for 300 blackout hunting rounds as well.
I have had pretty good results with 170 grain 30-30 bullets out of my 308 with 8 grains of tight group. They were holding 1 1/2" at 100 yards and with the flat nose they should have no trouble expanding. The cool thing is, the bullets were so short that they stabilized in my 1:12 twist barrel. 30-30 bullets might be worth looking into for 300 blackout hunting rounds as well.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Anybody try anything like 110gr vmax or I have some 100gr half jackets that the majority of the bullet is exposed lead. These are both flat base and given their short stature I would think they would stabilize in a 12 ywist 308. Any thoughts or am I way off. I have not tested this yet but plan to.
Anybody try anything like 110gr vmax or I have some 100gr half jackets that the majority of the bullet is exposed lead. These are both flat base and given their short stature I would think they would stabilize in a 12 ywist 308. Any thoughts or am I way off. I have not tested this yet but plan to.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
168 gr Remington core loks do not expand at all. I would think that the 110 gr bullets just wouldn't have enough energy to do enough damage.
168 gr Remington core loks do not expand at all. I would think that the 110 gr bullets just wouldn't have enough energy to do enough damage.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch engage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody try anything like 110gr vmax or I have some 100gr half jackets that the majority of the bullet is exposed lead. These are both flat base and given their short stature I would think they would stabilize in a 12 ywist 308. Any thoughts or am I way off. I have not tested this yet but plan to. </div></div>
No way that's going to work in a .308 case: You'd have to use so little powder to keep them subsonic you wouldn't get reliable ignition. Maybe if you didn't mind using fillers you could get full powder burn, but then you'd probably still end up with the bullets stuck in the bore because the variation in pressure curve is going to be so extreme.
If you actually want to play with powder fill ratios below 60% (i.e., so that when the case is on its side the primer might boost the bullet into the throat before igniting any powder) use a barrel you don't mind ruining.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch engage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anybody try anything like 110gr vmax or I have some 100gr half jackets that the majority of the bullet is exposed lead. These are both flat base and given their short stature I would think they would stabilize in a 12 ywist 308. Any thoughts or am I way off. I have not tested this yet but plan to. </div></div>
No way that's going to work in a .308 case: You'd have to use so little powder to keep them subsonic you wouldn't get reliable ignition. Maybe if you didn't mind using fillers you could get full powder burn, but then you'd probably still end up with the bullets stuck in the bore because the variation in pressure curve is going to be so extreme.
If you actually want to play with powder fill ratios below 60% (i.e., so that when the case is on its side the primer might boost the bullet into the throat before igniting any powder) use a barrel you don't mind ruining.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddd oo7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had pretty good results with 170 grain 30-30 bullets out of my 308 with 8 grains of tight group.</div></div>
I gave up on Titegroup after getting fizzles and a few bullets stuck in the bore. I'm surprised you're able to get muzzle velocities with an extreme spread that doesn't include 0fps! Are you using a filler over the powder? Or crimping the case necks?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ddd oo7</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had pretty good results with 170 grain 30-30 bullets out of my 308 with 8 grains of tight group.</div></div>
I gave up on Titegroup after getting fizzles and a few bullets stuck in the bore. I'm surprised you're able to get muzzle velocities with an extreme spread that doesn't include 0fps! Are you using a filler over the powder? Or crimping the case necks?
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Ok that saves me so me headache. What bullet load combos will stabilize subsonic in a 12 twist 24" barrel?
Ok that saves me so me headache. What bullet load combos will stabilize subsonic in a 12 twist 24" barrel?
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I am not using a filler. It is lake city multi-fired brass will cci large rifle primer, 170 gr round nose bullet seated to the same ogive as my 175 smks. Oal is actually quite short-- less than 2.8. Velocities vary between 1025 and 1075 over my chronograph. Not real close, but works for what it is. I shot about 100 rounds of that load and never had a problem. I now have a 300 blackout single shot cva, so I have no reason to shoot 308 subsonic any more. I am using accurate 1680 (11.4 gr) in the blackout.
I am not using a filler. It is lake city multi-fired brass will cci large rifle primer, 170 gr round nose bullet seated to the same ogive as my 175 smks. Oal is actually quite short-- less than 2.8. Velocities vary between 1025 and 1075 over my chronograph. Not real close, but works for what it is. I shot about 100 rounds of that load and never had a problem. I now have a 300 blackout single shot cva, so I have no reason to shoot 308 subsonic any more. I am using accurate 1680 (11.4 gr) in the blackout.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch engage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok that saves me so me headache. What bullet load combos will stabilize subsonic in a 12 twist 24" barrel? </div></div>
Length is not your friend with subsonics: the longer the barrel the more you have to download than with a shorter barrel to keep the speed subsonic, which for that and other reasons increases your chances of getting a bullet stuck in the bore.
If you really want to try with that barrel it looks like 220gr RNSP bullets -- made by both Hornady and Sierra -- will stabilize, and since they're copper jacketed they're less likely to stick in the barrel. Those measure 1.25-1.30" long, which produces stability factors safely above 1.0 at 1000fps out of 1:12 barrels (per http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi )
<span style="font-style: italic">Added note</span>: And of course to avoid all sorts of problems with reduced loads I would start with Trail Boss powder: the least dense powder on the market. You can fill a .308 case (but don't compress it) and with 220gr you will probably be around 1250fps out of a 24" bbl, so you can work down from there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Killswitch engage</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok that saves me so me headache. What bullet load combos will stabilize subsonic in a 12 twist 24" barrel? </div></div>
Length is not your friend with subsonics: the longer the barrel the more you have to download than with a shorter barrel to keep the speed subsonic, which for that and other reasons increases your chances of getting a bullet stuck in the bore.
If you really want to try with that barrel it looks like 220gr RNSP bullets -- made by both Hornady and Sierra -- will stabilize, and since they're copper jacketed they're less likely to stick in the barrel. Those measure 1.25-1.30" long, which produces stability factors safely above 1.0 at 1000fps out of 1:12 barrels (per http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi )
<span style="font-style: italic">Added note</span>: And of course to avoid all sorts of problems with reduced loads I would start with Trail Boss powder: the least dense powder on the market. You can fill a .308 case (but don't compress it) and with 220gr you will probably be around 1250fps out of a 24" bbl, so you can work down from there.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
when bullet meets bone, in like a shoulder or head, bullet "mushroom" or expansion is no longer a concern nor is it necessary.
as has been said already, they are 35 lb dogs at a range of, atmost, 120 yards. go shoot em in the front half and forget about it.
when bullet meets bone, in like a shoulder or head, bullet "mushroom" or expansion is no longer a concern nor is it necessary.
as has been said already, they are 35 lb dogs at a range of, atmost, 120 yards. go shoot em in the front half and forget about it.
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
I use 180grn hornady Rn bullets pushed to 1025fps with 10.5 grns of trailboss and was getting 1-1.25" groups out of my rem 700 police with a 26" barrel. so that combo worked well
I use 180grn hornady Rn bullets pushed to 1025fps with 10.5 grns of trailboss and was getting 1-1.25" groups out of my rem 700 police with a 26" barrel. so that combo worked well
Re: 308 Subsonic Hunting
Im working on a project. This is a 220gr RNSP bullet that i shoot subsonic from my R93 30-06. Havent tested precision yet, and this is only the concept so far. Im curious on how the accuracy and expansion will be.
Im working on a project. This is a 220gr RNSP bullet that i shoot subsonic from my R93 30-06. Havent tested precision yet, and this is only the concept so far. Im curious on how the accuracy and expansion will be.
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