How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo.
- Thread starter mike1113
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Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
As accurate as you can make it
As accurate as you can make it
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In da weeds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As accurate as you can Shoot it </div></div>
Fixed it for ya, you beat me to the answer LOL
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: In da weeds</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As accurate as you can Shoot it </div></div>
Fixed it for ya, you beat me to the answer LOL
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
but is that streching it for that caliber
but is that streching it for that caliber
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Not stretching for that caliber using proper projectile.
Not stretching for that caliber using proper projectile.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Why would you want to shoot a .308 at 1000 yards, unless required, such as in Service Rifle competition? After all, there are, obviously, other cartridges which are better. That's to say, there are cartridges that will get a higher B.C. bullet to 1000 yards nose-on, without the sort of aim correction necessary when shooting the .308, in other than ideal conditions.
I'm at home with a .308 for NRA LR, whether it's Service Rifle, or Match Rifle division. Yet, in Match Rifle division the .308 is a handicap, at the highest levels of competition, when other Master or HM class shooters show up with freshly barreled 6.5/284's. Shooting against those shooters makes me think why did I bring a knife to a gunfight.
One thing though, when you do take a Service Rifle to the 1000 yard line, whether a match conditioned .308 M1A or a .223 AR, if you can produce high scores with such equipment, you can take pride in your accomplishment as it's a great challenge, which demostrates a shooter's pure marksmanship skill better than what could be revealed with a match rifle.
Why would you want to shoot a .308 at 1000 yards, unless required, such as in Service Rifle competition? After all, there are, obviously, other cartridges which are better. That's to say, there are cartridges that will get a higher B.C. bullet to 1000 yards nose-on, without the sort of aim correction necessary when shooting the .308, in other than ideal conditions.
I'm at home with a .308 for NRA LR, whether it's Service Rifle, or Match Rifle division. Yet, in Match Rifle division the .308 is a handicap, at the highest levels of competition, when other Master or HM class shooters show up with freshly barreled 6.5/284's. Shooting against those shooters makes me think why did I bring a knife to a gunfight.
One thing though, when you do take a Service Rifle to the 1000 yard line, whether a match conditioned .308 M1A or a .223 AR, if you can produce high scores with such equipment, you can take pride in your accomplishment as it's a great challenge, which demostrates a shooter's pure marksmanship skill better than what could be revealed with a match rifle.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1113</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo. </div></div>
It can be quite accurate. The question is what do you want to do with it? Like Sterling Shooter said, there are other cartridges that may be more appropriate for 1K competition.
I have shot my 308 out to 1200 yards consistently. I do it just because I can. If I have to put one round on the target at a 1000 yards+, I would pick up my 338LM instead of my 308. Hope that answer your question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1113</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo. </div></div>
It can be quite accurate. The question is what do you want to do with it? Like Sterling Shooter said, there are other cartridges that may be more appropriate for 1K competition.
I have shot my 308 out to 1200 yards consistently. I do it just because I can. If I have to put one round on the target at a 1000 yards+, I would pick up my 338LM instead of my 308. Hope that answer your question.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1113</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo. </div></div>
That's not easy to quantify with a number. Too many variables in atmo conditions, equipment, ammo, etc. You might look into some 1000 yard F-TR match results to get an idea.
I'm shooting mostly 208 AMax out of mine, and it's surprisingly consistent at a mile in good conditions.
Here's a target I was shooting at one day from 1120 yards, at 4500 ft elevation, wind at my back, launching 208 AMax at 2480 fps in a factory Remington barrel. After a windage correction I was consistently on steel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1113</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo. </div></div>
That's not easy to quantify with a number. Too many variables in atmo conditions, equipment, ammo, etc. You might look into some 1000 yard F-TR match results to get an idea.
I'm shooting mostly 208 AMax out of mine, and it's surprisingly consistent at a mile in good conditions.
Here's a target I was shooting at one day from 1120 yards, at 4500 ft elevation, wind at my back, launching 208 AMax at 2480 fps in a factory Remington barrel. After a windage correction I was consistently on steel.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
MontanaMarine great shooting.If loading match grade ammo with a solid Optic and Rifle,You should produce Sub MOA groups at a 1000yds.In 308 I run 175SMK out of a Remy 700 and can consistantly hit 10 inch steel circles at 1000yds.Going past 1300yds with this round it tends to get thrown around abit.If you want a caliber that can take you to 1500yds consistantly the 300WM runnin 208s is Great.338LM is just to Expensive!
MontanaMarine great shooting.If loading match grade ammo with a solid Optic and Rifle,You should produce Sub MOA groups at a 1000yds.In 308 I run 175SMK out of a Remy 700 and can consistantly hit 10 inch steel circles at 1000yds.Going past 1300yds with this round it tends to get thrown around abit.If you want a caliber that can take you to 1500yds consistantly the 300WM runnin 208s is Great.338LM is just to Expensive!
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting.
Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting. </div></div>
Yes - some people are capable of it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting. </div></div>
Yes - some people are capable of it.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting. </div></div>
Yes - some people are capable of it.</div></div>
At LR with irons, I've never shot a clean with a .308, and, x-counts, pretty low too, typically, no more than 50%. To consistently hit inside the 20 inch 10 ring, conditions have had to be prevailing for the entire string of fire. Hitting a 10 inch plate consistently, even with a scope, is real good shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting. </div></div>
Yes - some people are capable of it.</div></div>
At LR with irons, I've never shot a clean with a .308, and, x-counts, pretty low too, typically, no more than 50%. To consistently hit inside the 20 inch 10 ring, conditions have had to be prevailing for the entire string of fire. Hitting a 10 inch plate consistently, even with a scope, is real good shooting.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
A competent marksman (not saying F class champion) can hold MOA at 1k with the .308 but there are better cartridges specifically for shooting 1k, but in my opinoin the only other as versatile round besides the .308 would be the 30'06 meaning these two rounds can do it all and have millions of different set ups to suit your needs. The key to hitting the target is consistency and the .308 is known for being consistent in wind which is a huge plus. The minus is that the case dimensions and its ability to hold enough powder are a limiting factor when trying to push heavy pills fast enough to take advantage of the BC of 1k bullets.
A competent marksman (not saying F class champion) can hold MOA at 1k with the .308 but there are better cartridges specifically for shooting 1k, but in my opinoin the only other as versatile round besides the .308 would be the 30'06 meaning these two rounds can do it all and have millions of different set ups to suit your needs. The key to hitting the target is consistency and the .308 is known for being consistent in wind which is a huge plus. The minus is that the case dimensions and its ability to hold enough powder are a limiting factor when trying to push heavy pills fast enough to take advantage of the BC of 1k bullets.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting. </div></div>
Yes - some people are capable of it. </div></div>
I would add; some people and their rifles are capable of it. My factory barreled savage shoots sub MOA at beyond 1K all the time, when conditions and shooter are right.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sub MOA at 1000 with the .308? Dude, that's some extraordinary shooting. </div></div>
Yes - some people are capable of it. </div></div>
I would add; some people and their rifles are capable of it. My factory barreled savage shoots sub MOA at beyond 1K all the time, when conditions and shooter are right.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Here is my best shooting at 1000 yards with my hand loads and .308. Now I realize that I can't claim this as a "group" because it's only 4 rounds instead of 5.....but here is the story....
I went to try 1000 with my last 10 rounds I had left in a box one evening just to basically get out of the house & have some fun. I took me 2 rounds to get on target....then made some elevation adjustments after shooting 4 rounds.....then I only had 4 rounds left.....so I shot the "2nd" group......it measured pretty nicely. I need to try it again with 5 rounds....LOL!
Here is my best shooting at 1000 yards with my hand loads and .308. Now I realize that I can't claim this as a "group" because it's only 4 rounds instead of 5.....but here is the story....
I went to try 1000 with my last 10 rounds I had left in a box one evening just to basically get out of the house & have some fun. I took me 2 rounds to get on target....then made some elevation adjustments after shooting 4 rounds.....then I only had 4 rounds left.....so I shot the "2nd" group......it measured pretty nicely. I need to try it again with 5 rounds....LOL!
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
The .308 is definitely capable. I've witnessed and shot out to 1400 yards a few weeks ago on a 14" x 14" white painted rock. These are solid torso shots, not for competitive scoring. One of the shooters, a female, hit it on the first round. She did have some help with a salty spotter but she did all the trigger pressing. It took me 3 rounds to hit it as the wind came up and shifted back and forth from a center hold to holding 3 mils to the right. It goes without saying, if you miss, make your wind call immediately and shoot again. I took my sweet-assed time between shots and paid for the shifting wind calls.
She was shooting a McMillan Tac-308 w/ 20" bbl. I was shooting my modified Rem 700 in a McM A1-3 w/ 24" bbl. Both of us were shooting factory Black Hills 175gr ammo. We were also using a NF NXS 3.5-15x50mm scope w/ MLR reticle. I maxed out my scope at 52 minutes with my 100 yard zero and held 2 mils higher. It was nice to see the rock dust flying as I had never shot a .308 at that distance before.
We shot the .308 at that distance because it was what we had on hand. It was a fun outing that built confidence and also helped as a wind reading exercise. If I had a choice, I'd have used my .300WM but I did learn a few things and did it rather cheaply.
The .308 is definitely capable. I've witnessed and shot out to 1400 yards a few weeks ago on a 14" x 14" white painted rock. These are solid torso shots, not for competitive scoring. One of the shooters, a female, hit it on the first round. She did have some help with a salty spotter but she did all the trigger pressing. It took me 3 rounds to hit it as the wind came up and shifted back and forth from a center hold to holding 3 mils to the right. It goes without saying, if you miss, make your wind call immediately and shoot again. I took my sweet-assed time between shots and paid for the shifting wind calls.
She was shooting a McMillan Tac-308 w/ 20" bbl. I was shooting my modified Rem 700 in a McM A1-3 w/ 24" bbl. Both of us were shooting factory Black Hills 175gr ammo. We were also using a NF NXS 3.5-15x50mm scope w/ MLR reticle. I maxed out my scope at 52 minutes with my 100 yard zero and held 2 mils higher. It was nice to see the rock dust flying as I had never shot a .308 at that distance before.
We shot the .308 at that distance because it was what we had on hand. It was a fun outing that built confidence and also helped as a wind reading exercise. If I had a choice, I'd have used my .300WM but I did learn a few things and did it rather cheaply.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
.308's are an easy 1K. Done every weekend.
MOA is down to the shooter. If YOU can't do it then YOU need to shoot more
Nothing special about it. It's down to the shooter.
Yes, you can use something easier if you find it too hard for you. You could even move the target closer if it's all too hard. Maybe only shoot on low wind days? Off a Benchrest?
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys....
.308's are an easy 1K. Done every weekend.
MOA is down to the shooter. If YOU can't do it then YOU need to shoot more
Nothing special about it. It's down to the shooter.Yes, you can use something easier if you find it too hard for you. You could even move the target closer if it's all too hard. Maybe only shoot on low wind days? Off a Benchrest?
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys....
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308's are an easy 1K. Done every weekend.
MOA is down to the shooter. If YOU can't do it then YOU need to shoot moreNothing special about it. It's down to the shooter.
Yes, you can use something easier if you find it too hard for you. You could even move the target closer if it's all too hard. Maybe only shoot on low wind days? Off a Benchrest?
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div> This is very true. I shot at a 1000 yd bench rest match with a lot of great shooters shooting great guns chambered in great calibers. I shot a 6.5x47 Lapua and for the most part I out scored him but the tables turned a few times even in heavy winds. It's more about the Indian than the bow sometimes. If thats what a shooter shoots best that what he needs to keep with I believe. I've found my self loving the .308 more since I've found pills other than the 168SMK. Very accurate round. GOD'S ROUND!!!!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.308's are an easy 1K. Done every weekend.
MOA is down to the shooter. If YOU can't do it then YOU need to shoot more
Nothing special about it. It's down to the shooter.Yes, you can use something easier if you find it too hard for you. You could even move the target closer if it's all too hard. Maybe only shoot on low wind days? Off a Benchrest?
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div> This is very true. I shot at a 1000 yd bench rest match with a lot of great shooters shooting great guns chambered in great calibers. I shot a 6.5x47 Lapua and for the most part I out scored him but the tables turned a few times even in heavy winds. It's more about the Indian than the bow sometimes. If thats what a shooter shoots best that what he needs to keep with I believe. I've found my self loving the .308 more since I've found pills other than the 168SMK. Very accurate round. GOD'S ROUND!!!!!
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div>
Done that too! if a .223 can do it, a .308 can do it better.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div>
Done that too! if a .223 can do it, a .308 can do it better.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
No more .308's at my house, replaced them with .30-'06 and .260 Rem. Don't miss them even a little bit.
No more .308's at my house, replaced them with .30-'06 and .260 Rem. Don't miss them even a little bit.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No more .308's at my house, replaced them with .30-'06 and .260 Rem. Don't miss them even a little bit. </div></div>
Why the hate for the three-o-eight?
(I'm sure the others do what you want to better, I just couldn't help the rhyme, I was hoping typing it would get it out of my head)
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No more .308's at my house, replaced them with .30-'06 and .260 Rem. Don't miss them even a little bit. </div></div>
Why the hate for the three-o-eight?
(I'm sure the others do what you want to better, I just couldn't help the rhyme, I was hoping typing it would get it out of my head)
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
No hate. There's just a better way, is all...
No hate. There's just a better way, is all...
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I own 2 308's but I'm with Greg and thinking i might just build me a 30-06
I own 2 308's but I'm with Greg and thinking i might just build me a 30-06
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Well I see what Greg is saying and I am sure he is a very competent shooter who outgrew the 308, but the 308 is still a great learning round cause it is cheap to shoot, very forgiving when reloading (since it becomes hard to double charge with most powders), and it is consistent. Plus its not just a learner obviously by how many pros that still shoot it. Honestly however the 30'06 is a better round but not as cheap as the 308 IMHO
P.S. the reason I list the cheapness as a plus because really its all about putting as much down range as possible.
Well I see what Greg is saying and I am sure he is a very competent shooter who outgrew the 308, but the 308 is still a great learning round cause it is cheap to shoot, very forgiving when reloading (since it becomes hard to double charge with most powders), and it is consistent. Plus its not just a learner obviously by how many pros that still shoot it. Honestly however the 30'06 is a better round but not as cheap as the 308 IMHO
P.S. the reason I list the cheapness as a plus because really its all about putting as much down range as possible.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div>
Done that too! if a .223 can do it, a .308 can do it better. </div></div>
What's "better"? Less recoil? cheaper? More "fun"?
Shit, .300WM is "better" than the .308 for 1k
.223/.308 are almost equal in RL when shot with similar BC projectiles and without the stupid pressures some guys push.
.308 does have a greater range of high BC projectiles but if you are limited like in F class then you don't gain much on the .308. A bit less windage.
What .223 loads were you using? What .308's?
I know a lot of the guys who have "issues" with the .223 at 1K KNOW it's no good so that's how they end up shooting it or they pick rubbish loads.
I get a lot more shooting done with my .223's per $ than with my .308's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div>
Done that too! if a .223 can do it, a .308 can do it better. </div></div>
What's "better"? Less recoil? cheaper? More "fun"?
Shit, .300WM is "better" than the .308 for 1k
.223/.308 are almost equal in RL when shot with similar BC projectiles and without the stupid pressures some guys push.
.308 does have a greater range of high BC projectiles but if you are limited like in F class then you don't gain much on the .308. A bit less windage.
What .223 loads were you using? What .308's?
I know a lot of the guys who have "issues" with the .223 at 1K KNOW it's no good so that's how they end up shooting it or they pick rubbish loads.
I get a lot more shooting done with my .223's per $ than with my .308's.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div>
Done that too! if a .223 can do it, a .308 can do it better. </div></div>
What's "better"? Less recoil? cheaper? More "fun"?
Shit, .300WM is "better" than the .308 for 1k
.223/.308 are almost equal in RL when shot with similar BC projectiles and without the stupid pressures some guys push.
.308 does have a greater range of high BC projectiles but if you are limited like in F class then you don't gain much on the .308. A bit less windage.
What .223 loads were you using? What .308's?
I know a lot of the guys who have "issues" with the .223 at 1K KNOW it's no good so that's how they end up shooting it or they pick rubbish loads.
I get a lot more shooting done with my .223's per $ than with my .308's. </div></div>
I was agreeing with you john, I love shooting my .223 at 1k, its cheaper, and if conditions are right I have no problem keeping up with my .308. What I meant was; if people regularly shoot .223's to 1k, surely a .308 is a more than capable round for the same distance. The above discussion was about the .308s usefulness at 1000 yds. I believe its a fine 1k cartridge, as is the .223 under the right conditions.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: coldboremiracle</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AUJohn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Let's hope no one mentions how well many guys are doing with the .223 at 1K. Wouldn't want to upset some of you guys.... </div></div>
Done that too! if a .223 can do it, a .308 can do it better. </div></div>
What's "better"? Less recoil? cheaper? More "fun"?
Shit, .300WM is "better" than the .308 for 1k
.223/.308 are almost equal in RL when shot with similar BC projectiles and without the stupid pressures some guys push.
.308 does have a greater range of high BC projectiles but if you are limited like in F class then you don't gain much on the .308. A bit less windage.
What .223 loads were you using? What .308's?
I know a lot of the guys who have "issues" with the .223 at 1K KNOW it's no good so that's how they end up shooting it or they pick rubbish loads.
I get a lot more shooting done with my .223's per $ than with my .308's. </div></div>
I was agreeing with you john, I love shooting my .223 at 1k, its cheaper, and if conditions are right I have no problem keeping up with my .308. What I meant was; if people regularly shoot .223's to 1k, surely a .308 is a more than capable round for the same distance. The above discussion was about the .308s usefulness at 1000 yds. I believe its a fine 1k cartridge, as is the .223 under the right conditions.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I see what Greg is saying and I am sure he is a very competent shooter who outgrew the 308, but the 308 is still a great learning round cause it is cheap to shoot, very forgiving when reloading (since it becomes hard to double charge with most powders), and it is consistent. Plus its not just a learner obviously by how many pros that still shoot it. Honestly however the 30'06 is a better round but not as cheap as the 308 IMHO
P.S. the reason I list the cheapness as a plus because really its all about putting as much down range as possible. </div></div>
You have summed up alot of the reasons I chose the 308. As a newbie to the long range shooting game it seemed a logical choice. It may also have something to do with the fact it was the round my Dad had for his main hunting rifle.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I see what Greg is saying and I am sure he is a very competent shooter who outgrew the 308, but the 308 is still a great learning round cause it is cheap to shoot, very forgiving when reloading (since it becomes hard to double charge with most powders), and it is consistent. Plus its not just a learner obviously by how many pros that still shoot it. Honestly however the 30'06 is a better round but not as cheap as the 308 IMHO
P.S. the reason I list the cheapness as a plus because really its all about putting as much down range as possible. </div></div>
You have summed up alot of the reasons I chose the 308. As a newbie to the long range shooting game it seemed a logical choice. It may also have something to do with the fact it was the round my Dad had for his main hunting rifle.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I've had this debate with some folks, but one of the reasons I like the .308 is because of the military legacy as well as its use as a current sniper round. Yes, there are MUCH more capable cartrides out there for the 1K and under tactical match game - but my mindset is that if operators can make consistant hits with a .308 - then that is my challenge to myself to try to do the same in matches that supposedly replicate the "tactical" types of shots. If I were in it strictly to win tac comps - then I would shoot one of the more exotic flatter calibers in the 6mm/.243 adn .260 range. But I like to challenge myself to attempt to do (albeit poorly) what the operators are able to do with the same caliber.
Oh and don't get me wrong, the other things I LOVE about the .308 are the lower cost of reloading, the ease of finding components and the long barrel life compared to the more exotic calibers that many tac comp guys are shooting these days. I overheard some folks talking about having to rebarrel every year. No thanks.
I've had this debate with some folks, but one of the reasons I like the .308 is because of the military legacy as well as its use as a current sniper round. Yes, there are MUCH more capable cartrides out there for the 1K and under tactical match game - but my mindset is that if operators can make consistant hits with a .308 - then that is my challenge to myself to try to do the same in matches that supposedly replicate the "tactical" types of shots. If I were in it strictly to win tac comps - then I would shoot one of the more exotic flatter calibers in the 6mm/.243 adn .260 range. But I like to challenge myself to attempt to do (albeit poorly) what the operators are able to do with the same caliber.
Oh and don't get me wrong, the other things I LOVE about the .308 are the lower cost of reloading, the ease of finding components and the long barrel life compared to the more exotic calibers that many tac comp guys are shooting these days. I overheard some folks talking about having to rebarrel every year. No thanks.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
^+1 Well put my friend.
^+1 Well put my friend.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I think one of the great things about the .308 is it forces you to do a good job reading and adjusting for the wind. The hot rod rounds are great and I own a bunch of them, but good wind reading is what makes us better shooters.
mike
I think one of the great things about the .308 is it forces you to do a good job reading and adjusting for the wind. The hot rod rounds are great and I own a bunch of them, but good wind reading is what makes us better shooters.
mike
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Well every bullet is effected by wind weather small or largely effected but the key is consistently effected. They key to a great round is that it is consistently effected the same way and the 308 generally is which is why it has lasted this long.
Well every bullet is effected by wind weather small or largely effected but the key is consistently effected. They key to a great round is that it is consistently effected the same way and the 308 generally is which is why it has lasted this long.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
"affected"
"affected"
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I guess I see it differently.
In my mind, the 308 has lasted because of it's origin and continued use in the military.
Subsequent development of match ammo, competiton use, and police use, have deeply entrenched the chambering in the shooting world, despite it's shortcomings compared to many newer chamberings.
It would be awful tough to quantify the position that wind effects are more consistent on a 308 round, than they are on a 7-08, 260, 243, 300 WinMag, or any number of other rounds that can launch more aerodynamic bullets at higher speeds.
I guess I see it differently.
In my mind, the 308 has lasted because of it's origin and continued use in the military.
Subsequent development of match ammo, competiton use, and police use, have deeply entrenched the chambering in the shooting world, despite it's shortcomings compared to many newer chamberings.
It would be awful tough to quantify the position that wind effects are more consistent on a 308 round, than they are on a 7-08, 260, 243, 300 WinMag, or any number of other rounds that can launch more aerodynamic bullets at higher speeds.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1113</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo. </div></div>
As accurate as the shooter!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mike1113</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How accurate is the .308 at 1000 yards with reloaded ammo. </div></div>
As accurate as the shooter!
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
If you reload why not go for something that makes it "easier" to hit what your shooting for at 1000 yards?
As stated above...the .308 can and does hit 1K all the time...heck...even I can hit 1000 yard targets with a AR and crap ammo (see video below) half the time. But I much prefer to use something I can "easily" hit at a grand with.
Best thing I can recommend is to load up some ammo and hit the range. That will tell you pretty quickly if you and your loads/rifle combo can be effective at that distance.
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If you reload why not go for something that makes it "easier" to hit what your shooting for at 1000 yards?
As stated above...the .308 can and does hit 1K all the time...heck...even I can hit 1000 yard targets with a AR and crap ammo (see video below) half the time. But I much prefer to use something I can "easily" hit at a grand with.
Best thing I can recommend is to load up some ammo and hit the range. That will tell you pretty quickly if you and your loads/rifle combo can be effective at that distance.
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Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I see the .308 as an evolution of the .30-'06, for reasons that made good military sense for a ball ammunition cartridge.
It further evolved for use as an LR cartridge, but at the extreme end of the LR trajectory, I think it becomes marginal. I listen to LL, who has been an operator for both USMC and US Army; and I totally concur with his comments about it being, at best, an 800yd cartridge.
For the long end of the LR trajectory, I still favor the .30-'06, and if I'm forced to use a shorter cartridge with the .308's capacity, I'm going to prefer its evolutionary derivative, the .260.
The capacity of the .308 is excellent, but trying to combine both the bore diameter and a truly useful BC asks more of it than it's really best at. With the .260, it's truly a case of less is more.
As mentioned above, I am a shooter who has come up with the .308, and gone on to the .260. The .308 is probably the best cartridge to learn 1000yd shooting on, and also probably the best motivator to move on to something that just does it all that necessary bit of better
...And anyone who thinks that going to the .260 is going to solve any wind deflection issues will soon find out otherwise.
Everybody deals with the wind, it's all just a matter of degree.
Greg
I see the .308 as an evolution of the .30-'06, for reasons that made good military sense for a ball ammunition cartridge.
It further evolved for use as an LR cartridge, but at the extreme end of the LR trajectory, I think it becomes marginal. I listen to LL, who has been an operator for both USMC and US Army; and I totally concur with his comments about it being, at best, an 800yd cartridge.
For the long end of the LR trajectory, I still favor the .30-'06, and if I'm forced to use a shorter cartridge with the .308's capacity, I'm going to prefer its evolutionary derivative, the .260.
The capacity of the .308 is excellent, but trying to combine both the bore diameter and a truly useful BC asks more of it than it's really best at. With the .260, it's truly a case of less is more.
As mentioned above, I am a shooter who has come up with the .308, and gone on to the .260. The .308 is probably the best cartridge to learn 1000yd shooting on, and also probably the best motivator to move on to something that just does it all that necessary bit of better
...And anyone who thinks that going to the .260 is going to solve any wind deflection issues will soon find out otherwise.
Everybody deals with the wind, it's all just a matter of degree.
Greg
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">heck...even I can hit 1000 yard targets with a AR and crap ammo </div></div>
Quit bragging Stan!!
LOL but really thats doin pretty good, I've never even bothered with 55's @ 1K,(reason being at 800 I found one hanging clumsily out the front of the wooden post I'd hung the gong from, a stiff breeze would have knocked it loose.LoL)
Greg makes some very good points, as usual. I love my .308, I know it is not the best, but it ALWAYS performs. It goes where I put it every time, sure alot of other cartriges will do it better and farther, I like them too. I think that the most important thing in this discussion, and any other when it comes to effective shooting at any range is: How accurate a shot can be delivered by rifle X and shooter Y. A hit is better than a miss, Im sure most folks here can deliver a shot at 1000, some better than others, some with .308's and some with 6.5's 300's ect.ect. so its simply a choice on how to get to 1K, you may do it better with a 6.5, I may do it better with a .308. The point is being proficient with what you have, despite limitations and competition. I respect any and all rifle/shooter combo that can go such a distance.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">heck...even I can hit 1000 yard targets with a AR and crap ammo </div></div>
Quit bragging Stan!!
Greg makes some very good points, as usual. I love my .308, I know it is not the best, but it ALWAYS performs. It goes where I put it every time, sure alot of other cartriges will do it better and farther, I like them too. I think that the most important thing in this discussion, and any other when it comes to effective shooting at any range is: How accurate a shot can be delivered by rifle X and shooter Y. A hit is better than a miss, Im sure most folks here can deliver a shot at 1000, some better than others, some with .308's and some with 6.5's 300's ect.ect. so its simply a choice on how to get to 1K, you may do it better with a 6.5, I may do it better with a .308. The point is being proficient with what you have, despite limitations and competition. I respect any and all rifle/shooter combo that can go such a distance.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I keep coming back to the ballistics vs skills question, and for me the answer has always been to put one's faith in skills.
Those old Buffalo hunters, with their 45-70's and 45-120's, lobbing all those rounds in like howitzers, understood my point.
So did the Buffalo, for awhile...
Greg
I keep coming back to the ballistics vs skills question, and for me the answer has always been to put one's faith in skills.
Those old Buffalo hunters, with their 45-70's and 45-120's, lobbing all those rounds in like howitzers, understood my point.
So did the Buffalo, for awhile...
Greg
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Faith and confidence in skills dont make your bullet fly any better, but I believe (and I believe this is what Greg is implying) they can make the difference even when the ballistic cards are down, like in the case of the .308.
Faith and confidence in skills dont make your bullet fly any better, but I believe (and I believe this is what Greg is implying) they can make the difference even when the ballistic cards are down, like in the case of the .308.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
When you reload you enter a lot of variables into the equation. What shoots well at 200 or 300 yards may not shoot well at longer distances. If you have reloaded and can hit targets with sub minute groups at 500 or 600 then you should start testing at longer distances. The .308 is a great round but not every round suits every purpose - the previous posts show a lot of insight. There are guys who can hit 1K but it is not so easy to do without a fair amount of practice. Look at ballistic tables and see how much of a drop the .308 has after 500 or 600 yards. Then consider the evil wind. For me personally, the .308 is excellent for 500 or 600 yards - it performs well in that range without having to go to great lengths to achieve accuracy. I also always look at the tactical applications of shooting - moving target, wind, etc. Past 600 yards those variable can become nightmares. I am purchasing a .338 LM to shoot past the 600 yard range. If a cartridge like the .308 has the capability to reach 1k or better - think how comfortable it is to shoot at half that range. Same with the .338 - it's easier to shoot a .338 LM at 1k without breaking a sweat than it is with a .308. Anything past 1k for me personally is just an occasional thing that has no practical applications (for me). I am not a 2,500 shooter and never will be. I guess after all this, it comes down to, just go out an give it a shot ( no pun intended).
When you reload you enter a lot of variables into the equation. What shoots well at 200 or 300 yards may not shoot well at longer distances. If you have reloaded and can hit targets with sub minute groups at 500 or 600 then you should start testing at longer distances. The .308 is a great round but not every round suits every purpose - the previous posts show a lot of insight. There are guys who can hit 1K but it is not so easy to do without a fair amount of practice. Look at ballistic tables and see how much of a drop the .308 has after 500 or 600 yards. Then consider the evil wind. For me personally, the .308 is excellent for 500 or 600 yards - it performs well in that range without having to go to great lengths to achieve accuracy. I also always look at the tactical applications of shooting - moving target, wind, etc. Past 600 yards those variable can become nightmares. I am purchasing a .338 LM to shoot past the 600 yard range. If a cartridge like the .308 has the capability to reach 1k or better - think how comfortable it is to shoot at half that range. Same with the .338 - it's easier to shoot a .338 LM at 1k without breaking a sweat than it is with a .308. Anything past 1k for me personally is just an occasional thing that has no practical applications (for me). I am not a 2,500 shooter and never will be. I guess after all this, it comes down to, just go out an give it a shot ( no pun intended).
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you reload why not go for something that makes it "easier" to hit what your shooting for at 1000 yards?
</div></div>
You end up having a better skill set and being a better shooter. Get a guy who uses the .300WM to 1K and one using a .308. All else being equal, give the .308 guy a "better" cartridge and he will make longer hits. He's gained quite a lot.
I use the .223 and .308 out to 1K. Is it "harder"? Yes. Do I learn more and keep my skill level higher? For sure. In some conditions, I move up but I shoot in all conditions. I have maybe 6-7 days a year that my targets don't have to be pegged down to stop them blowing across the range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BgBmBoo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you reload why not go for something that makes it "easier" to hit what your shooting for at 1000 yards?
</div></div>
You end up having a better skill set and being a better shooter. Get a guy who uses the .300WM to 1K and one using a .308. All else being equal, give the .308 guy a "better" cartridge and he will make longer hits. He's gained quite a lot.
I use the .223 and .308 out to 1K. Is it "harder"? Yes. Do I learn more and keep my skill level higher? For sure. In some conditions, I move up but I shoot in all conditions. I have maybe 6-7 days a year that my targets don't have to be pegged down to stop them blowing across the range.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
Hmm. I hate to throw a wrench in the works, but for some reason I've read many an article that says the 308 is ballistically more stable than the 30-06. Now, I know that it's a blanketed statement, but I even recall speaking to an engineer that explained that the same 308 bullet shot from a 308 and 30-06 was more stable in the 308 due to the reduced velocity. Not sure if that's right, but it seemed to be reasonable. I'm sure that there are projectiles that work very well in the 30-06 now days, so maybe this is old info based on dated technology.
Either way, I can consistently shoot my .223 at about 700yds (I have no place to shoot further!) so I rarely shoot the 308 because of the cost!
Hmm. I hate to throw a wrench in the works, but for some reason I've read many an article that says the 308 is ballistically more stable than the 30-06. Now, I know that it's a blanketed statement, but I even recall speaking to an engineer that explained that the same 308 bullet shot from a 308 and 30-06 was more stable in the 308 due to the reduced velocity. Not sure if that's right, but it seemed to be reasonable. I'm sure that there are projectiles that work very well in the 30-06 now days, so maybe this is old info based on dated technology.
Either way, I can consistently shoot my .223 at about 700yds (I have no place to shoot further!) so I rarely shoot the 308 because of the cost!
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
I'm no Engineer, but I'm pretty sure the equation for relative bullet stability consists of a little bit more than reading headstamps.
I'm no Engineer, but I'm pretty sure the equation for relative bullet stability consists of a little bit more than reading headstamps.
Re: .308 to 1000 yrds
gregs view in my experience is spot on 308 is very consistant easy to use at 1k 6br vld more forgiving,260 140 vld more forgiving still,338 lapua very hard to beat,they will all work some just make my skills at reading conditions look better and sometimes i need all the help i can get.
gregs view in my experience is spot on 308 is very consistant easy to use at 1k 6br vld more forgiving,260 140 vld more forgiving still,338 lapua very hard to beat,they will all work some just make my skills at reading conditions look better and sometimes i need all the help i can get.
