308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

[JvT_404]

Hi

I have a standard trg22 with the 26 inch barrel shooting the 185 bergers. The rifle has quite a long freebore and at OAL of 2.94 inches I am still at least 30 thou off the lands.

I have been experimenting with seating the 185 out quite a bit, but am concerned about how much of the case neck should be engaging the bullet. At 2.94 OAL I have about 60% of the length of the 308 case neck gripping the bullet. Is this enough? I am getting really good ES with this load, but want to check that I am not missing something somewhere.

Thanks
Jaco

 

[turbo54]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

It really depends on what you're doing with the ammo. If it is being stored in a nice MTM box, handled carefully and single-loaded into the rifle, you'll be fine with very little case neck engagement.

If you are out in "the field" and sujecting the ammo to potential drops, rifle recoil, feeding from the magazine (will your mag even accomdate ammo loaded that long??), I think you you should have damn near full case neck engagement on the bullet.

 

[ChadTRG42]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

+1 for what turbo said. It depends on how "rough" you will be with the ammo. The bullet should be seated deep enough to function fine. Just be carefull to not have any pressure on the bullet to cause it to turn in the case and induce run-out. That would be my only concern.

You could also look at a heavier bullet. The heavier bullets will seat slightly deeper, and give you higher BC. Since you are able to seat the bullet out long, you can get more powder in the case for higher speeds. Just a thought!

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

" - how long can you go? "

Until you hit the lands or the bullets fall out.

 

[Leaddog]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

That is some long freebore. I also shoot the 185 Berger BTLR and they are awesome. I said goodbye to the 175SMK's a long time ago when I started shooting this bullet.

In my rifle, the OAL of my loads are 2.875 and I'm 10 thousandths off. So for me... 2.885 is as long as I can go without getting into the lands. I like the boattail portion of the bullet to sit right at the base of the neck. I've also shot this bullet 20, 30, and 40 off and there isn't much difference, but my rifle likes 10 off the best.

I sort, trim, and point these bullets in my competition loads but I don't see much if any difference if I leave them alone.

 

[JvT_404]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

Thanks for all the responses. I guess I should have clarified my use of the rifle as part of the question.

The rifle is used for FTR predominantly, and some messing around. I asked the question, because on my higher powered F-open guns in 6.5/284 and 284 win the normal rule of thumb is to have a neck grip length equal to the diameter of the rifle caliber. But the 308's neck is not even .308 inches in total length! So clearly the rules are different for a 308!

The trg22 mag is 3 inches anyway, so I can still shoot from the magazine. I was more concerned about possible issues with concentricity - although I normally load with a between 2 and 3 thou neck tension. I was basically hoping people would say that the 308 does not mind being loaded that long.

Thanks again for the help.......

And yes Leaddog, those 185s are amazing. I shoot with a 26 inch barrel and give the guys with 155s in 30 inch barrels a great run for their money....

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

"..the normal rule of thumb is to have a neck grip length equal to the diameter of the rifle caliber. But the 308's neck is not even .308 inches in total length! So clearly the rules are different for a 308!"

A caliber deep is not and never has been a VALID 'rule of thumb' since black powder cartridge days, the idea is just a mindless hang over since then.

 

[BobinNC]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A caliber deep is not and never has been a VALID 'rule of thumb' since black powder cartridge days, the idea is just a mindless hang over since then.
</div></div>

Fuzzball,

Although I agree in principal, what in your opinion is the minimum seating depth for a 30 cal bullet? Here's the neck lenghts for some popular 30 cal cartridges: 0.385" (30-06), 0.303" (308 Win), 0.297" (300 WSM), 0.264" (300 Win Mag). So how short would you go?

Saying something is old BS is an easy thing, making a reasonable case for what it should be is quite another.....

 

[Belisarius]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

I seat all my/heavy/ bullets in 308W at 3.000 and a little longer for the 208 a-max, so I can utilize as much case capacity as I can, to achieve the maximum velocity.

 

[Savage_Fan]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A caliber deep is not and never has been a VALID 'rule of thumb' since black powder cartridge days, the idea is just a mindless hang over since then.
</div></div>

Fuzzball,

Although I agree in principal, what in your opinion is the minimum seating depth for a 30 cal bullet? Here's the neck lenghts for some popular 30 cal cartridges: 0.385" (30-06), 0.303" (308 Win), 0.297" (300 WSM), 0.264" (300 Win Mag). So how short would you go?

Saying something is old BS is an easy thing, making a reasonable case for what it should be is quite another..... </div></div>

Just saw this today, the 30 Wolfpup has .085" neck length...

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: 308 with berger 185 BTLR - how long can you go?

"Although I agree in principal, what in your opinion is the minimum seating depth for a 30 cal bullet? Here's the neck lenghts for some popular 30 cal cartridges: 0.385" (30-06), 0.303" (308 Win), 0.297" (300 WSM), 0.264" (300 Win Mag). So how short would you go?"

And check the great old .300 Savage with a neck of .192". Never saw that .30 Wolfpup before, that's an interesting way to achieve near perfect consistancy of "neck tension" - there nearly ain't none!

Bob, I don't know how "short" I would go on a .30 cal (presume you mean how shallow?) or anything else; that's a practical thing for each of us to choose. I don't try to make rules for others to follow at all; pick whatever minimum depth you're comfortable with and go, that's what I do. But I've never even thought of how deep to seat anything before I started (partially meaning in 46 years of reloading I've never even looked at a book OAL).

Not sure what you mean about the difference between me saying a caliber deep is "old BS" and proving it but your quoted neck lengths would seem to bear me out.?? That is, unless you disagree with the wisdom of all those ballistics engineers who designed cartridges with short necks.