Got a question for yall? I am fixing to build a rifle and was considering a 338 Edge. I plan on sticking a good brake on the rifle before I start. I have a 26" Krieger 338 #5 barrel that I was going to put into a rem 700 action. The barrel will be 25" finished and was wondering what kind of velocity yall think I can get out of this. Will mostly be shooting the 225-250gr and 300gr smk occasionally when on the range. I know the 25" tube will not give me the ballistics of the 30" tubes but will this work out? The gun will be bedded into an HS precision and will be mostly used for hunting. What are your thoughts?
Range Report 338 Edge
Re: 338 Edge
I was wondering the same thing so I hope we can find some answeres.
I was wondering the same thing so I hope we can find some answeres.
Re: 338 Edge
In that short of a barrel with those bullet weights, I think you would be looking at about the same velocity of the 338 RUM. I haven't build any with that short of barrel. I know a 30" will push the 225's at 3150+ easily in the Edge. In a 24-26" barrel, I am not sure that you will see any benefit with an Edge over a standard 338 RUM.
In that short of a barrel with those bullet weights, I think you would be looking at about the same velocity of the 338 RUM. I haven't build any with that short of barrel. I know a 30" will push the 225's at 3150+ easily in the Edge. In a 24-26" barrel, I am not sure that you will see any benefit with an Edge over a standard 338 RUM.
Re: 338 Edge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In that short of a barrel with those bullet weights, I think you would be looking at about the same velocity of the 338 RUM. I haven't build any with that short of barrel. I know a 30" will push the 225's at 3150+ easily in the Edge. In a 24-26" barrel, I am not sure that you will see any benefit with an Edge over a standard 338 RUM. </div></div>
+1
My smith told me the exact same thing (right down to comparing it with the 338 RUM) when I was planning on cutting my 30" bbl to 26". At 30", with 92.5gr H1000, i pushed a 300gr SMK at 2830 (seemed high but whatever). I am now replacing the 30 incher with a 28.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 7mmAM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In that short of a barrel with those bullet weights, I think you would be looking at about the same velocity of the 338 RUM. I haven't build any with that short of barrel. I know a 30" will push the 225's at 3150+ easily in the Edge. In a 24-26" barrel, I am not sure that you will see any benefit with an Edge over a standard 338 RUM. </div></div>
+1
My smith told me the exact same thing (right down to comparing it with the 338 RUM) when I was planning on cutting my 30" bbl to 26". At 30", with 92.5gr H1000, i pushed a 300gr SMK at 2830 (seemed high but whatever). I am now replacing the 30 incher with a 28.
Re: 338 Edge
See if you can find a member that goes by the handle Steelhead here on the site . He has a Carlock built .338 Edge and that thing is a frigging hammer !! Steel reactive targets tremble in fear when he uncorks that thing .
See if you can find a member that goes by the handle Steelhead here on the site . He has a Carlock built .338 Edge and that thing is a frigging hammer !! Steel reactive targets tremble in fear when he uncorks that thing .
Re: 338 Edge
You aren't going to get the full potential of the 338 Edge from a shorter barrel. As someone else has eluded to, you'd probably be served better with one of the other 338's.
Shawn Carlock, who's kind of like the "father" of the 338 Edge, hunts with this 30" beast, but he's not your average hunter either. He does a lot of planning and scoping out areas, before he hunts the area. This way he's not humping that rifle all over the place. The rifle itself weighs less than 15 lbs., which is close to the maximum weight limit, and thus could be packed around, but most hunters that I talk to, would rather have something in the 8 lb. range or less. Knowing Shawn, I don't think the weight is an issue with him. He's a big guy and I think, to some extent he likes the extra weight, because it offers him more stability in the field. He's a big proponent of getting into the most stable position possible before taking the shot, which often means getting on the ground in the prone possition.
I would try to get a hold of him on Long Range Hunting, like others have mentioned. If you want this rifle for hunting, I think he could definately steer you in the right direction.
As a side note, I have two rifles that give me the biggest grins. One is a GA Precision built .308, that is just a laser. I can hardly do any wrong with this rifle. The other rifle is a Defensive Edge (Shawn Carlock) built 338 EDGE. This thing is just as accurate and has devastating effects on steel if its inside 1000 yards. I've tipped steel silhouette targets over at 640 yards away. Flung the center section of an MGM Sniper target, set up 440 yards away, up the hill 5 feet. And I've seen it have devastating effect on elk 1200 yards away. It is definately an awesome cartridge and rifle!!
You aren't going to get the full potential of the 338 Edge from a shorter barrel. As someone else has eluded to, you'd probably be served better with one of the other 338's.
Shawn Carlock, who's kind of like the "father" of the 338 Edge, hunts with this 30" beast, but he's not your average hunter either. He does a lot of planning and scoping out areas, before he hunts the area. This way he's not humping that rifle all over the place. The rifle itself weighs less than 15 lbs., which is close to the maximum weight limit, and thus could be packed around, but most hunters that I talk to, would rather have something in the 8 lb. range or less. Knowing Shawn, I don't think the weight is an issue with him. He's a big guy and I think, to some extent he likes the extra weight, because it offers him more stability in the field. He's a big proponent of getting into the most stable position possible before taking the shot, which often means getting on the ground in the prone possition.
I would try to get a hold of him on Long Range Hunting, like others have mentioned. If you want this rifle for hunting, I think he could definately steer you in the right direction.
As a side note, I have two rifles that give me the biggest grins. One is a GA Precision built .308, that is just a laser. I can hardly do any wrong with this rifle. The other rifle is a Defensive Edge (Shawn Carlock) built 338 EDGE. This thing is just as accurate and has devastating effects on steel if its inside 1000 yards. I've tipped steel silhouette targets over at 640 yards away. Flung the center section of an MGM Sniper target, set up 440 yards away, up the hill 5 feet. And I've seen it have devastating effect on elk 1200 yards away. It is definately an awesome cartridge and rifle!!
Re: 338 Edge
Lets face it, Shawn Carlock has built the 338 edge to be what it is. He did name it in the first place. I was wondering about Idaho's weight laws, I thought total weight had to be under 15lbs? I hate these hunting laws that have no purpose in the field. Thanks for any info.
Lets face it, Shawn Carlock has built the 338 edge to be what it is. He did name it in the first place. I was wondering about Idaho's weight laws, I thought total weight had to be under 15lbs? I hate these hunting laws that have no purpose in the field. Thanks for any info.
Re: 338 Edge
I think you would lack performance. And might be better off in a difrent chambering
I think you would lack performance. And might be better off in a difrent chambering
Re: 338 Edge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets face it, Shawn Carlock has built the 338 edge to be what it is. He did name it in the first place. I was wondering about Idaho's weight laws, I thought total weight had to be under 15lbs? I hate these hunting laws that have no purpose in the field. Thanks for any info.
</div></div>
I believe it is 17 or 18#. Someone told me but that was over a year ago.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lets face it, Shawn Carlock has built the 338 edge to be what it is. He did name it in the first place. I was wondering about Idaho's weight laws, I thought total weight had to be under 15lbs? I hate these hunting laws that have no purpose in the field. Thanks for any info.
</div></div>
I believe it is 17 or 18#. Someone told me but that was over a year ago.
Re: 338 Edge
It's 16lbs in ID.
JH
It's 16lbs in ID.
JH
Re: 338 Edge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Idahomie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's 16lbs in ID.
JH </div></div>
Well there goes most of the fun ones, guess I stuck packing my basic rifle around. The videos of Shawn on YouTube look like a heavier gun than 16lbs with scope and everything.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Idahomie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's 16lbs in ID.
JH </div></div>
Well there goes most of the fun ones, guess I stuck packing my basic rifle around. The videos of Shawn on YouTube look like a heavier gun than 16lbs with scope and everything.
Re: 338 Edge
SP
Quickload suggests you'll be pushing the 300 SMK about 100 fps slower with the 25" barrel vs. the 30".
You real world results will depend on many factors (chamber/throat/bore) and could swing this either way another 25-50 fps.
I don't think the critter/target you hit will know the difference.
Run the numbers at JBM and see what 100 fps or difference means in terms of wind drift at 1K and energy at 1K.
I used 2820 fps as the 30", and 2720 as the 25" barrel.
338 Edge Load data
My numbers say the "slow" bullet would drift 2.5" more in a 10 mph crosswind, arrive with 195 ft/lbs of less KE (still arrives with over 1 ton of KE at 1K), and need a whopping 1.7 more MOA of elevation (7 clicks more on your 1/4 MOA scope).
Certainly the 30" barrel would be nice and would help things along...but I'd say it likely there are other things that may be the "weak link" in the goal of a long range engagement sequence than 100 fps...just my opinion.
Good luck.
SP
Quickload suggests you'll be pushing the 300 SMK about 100 fps slower with the 25" barrel vs. the 30".
You real world results will depend on many factors (chamber/throat/bore) and could swing this either way another 25-50 fps.
I don't think the critter/target you hit will know the difference.
Run the numbers at JBM and see what 100 fps or difference means in terms of wind drift at 1K and energy at 1K.
I used 2820 fps as the 30", and 2720 as the 25" barrel.
338 Edge Load data
My numbers say the "slow" bullet would drift 2.5" more in a 10 mph crosswind, arrive with 195 ft/lbs of less KE (still arrives with over 1 ton of KE at 1K), and need a whopping 1.7 more MOA of elevation (7 clicks more on your 1/4 MOA scope).
Certainly the 30" barrel would be nice and would help things along...but I'd say it likely there are other things that may be the "weak link" in the goal of a long range engagement sequence than 100 fps...just my opinion.
Good luck.
Re: 338 Edge
Your better off just running it as a 338 RUM with that short of a barrel. I have a .338 Edge that Shawn built for me. It has a 28" Broughton, Sendero taper w/ flutes, coyote tan finish, McM A-5 desert camo, Jewell, NSX 5.5x22x50, Nightforce rings/base, DE ACI/ACD....about 15. on the bathroom scale.
Your better off just running it as a 338 RUM with that short of a barrel. I have a .338 Edge that Shawn built for me. It has a 28" Broughton, Sendero taper w/ flutes, coyote tan finish, McM A-5 desert camo, Jewell, NSX 5.5x22x50, Nightforce rings/base, DE ACI/ACD....about 15. on the bathroom scale.
Re: 338 Edge
Soren, could we see a pic of your rifle, sound pretty slick.
-Matt
Soren, could we see a pic of your rifle, sound pretty slick.
-Matt
Re: 338 Edge
I can't wait to offer my results- rifle should be here later Today!
I started out deciding between a 30" or 25-ish" barrel- but decided on running a 28"+fat bastard with results others were getting at that length.
I'll quote Shawn from a post on LRH here:
"Shawn Carlock Shawn Carlock is offline
Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,613
The Edge with a 30" tube you can just get 2900 fps but the powder you have to use is temp sensitive and the ES was to big, but it will do 2900 fps with standard pressure if numbers is all your worried about. The powder I use as most know is H1000 and it settles in right at 2800-2830 fps in most 30" barreled rifles. I'd gladly give up 75-100 fps for the excellent consistancy. I have developed and am applying for a patent on a chambering technique / design that makes reaching 2900-2950 with the Edge and good stable powders a normal occurance within standard pressure . Stay tuned on that one! As far ad the 338 RUM vs. EDGE debate I will say that the Edge is an advantage worth doing with the 300 gr bullet in any length barrel and an advantage with lighter bullets in the 30" tube. If you were going to build one with a 26" tube and shoot 225 NAB's there is not enough advantage in the Edge, you might as well chamber in the RUM.
__________________"
-O
I can't wait to offer my results- rifle should be here later Today!
I started out deciding between a 30" or 25-ish" barrel- but decided on running a 28"+fat bastard with results others were getting at that length.
I'll quote Shawn from a post on LRH here:
"Shawn Carlock Shawn Carlock is offline
Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Idaho
Posts: 1,613
The Edge with a 30" tube you can just get 2900 fps but the powder you have to use is temp sensitive and the ES was to big, but it will do 2900 fps with standard pressure if numbers is all your worried about. The powder I use as most know is H1000 and it settles in right at 2800-2830 fps in most 30" barreled rifles. I'd gladly give up 75-100 fps for the excellent consistancy. I have developed and am applying for a patent on a chambering technique / design that makes reaching 2900-2950 with the Edge and good stable powders a normal occurance within standard pressure . Stay tuned on that one! As far ad the 338 RUM vs. EDGE debate I will say that the Edge is an advantage worth doing with the 300 gr bullet in any length barrel and an advantage with lighter bullets in the 30" tube. If you were going to build one with a 26" tube and shoot 225 NAB's there is not enough advantage in the Edge, you might as well chamber in the RUM.
__________________"
-O
Re: 338 Edge
the first one i built has a 26" tube and it doesnt have any trouble making the 2800-2850 the 300mk likes to be shot at. it is a 6-groove rock creek barrel that was a special run for accuracy international as told to me by the seller here on the hide. the second one has a 28" benchmark three groove but i havnt got around to shooting it yet. still need to put a pad on it and ill be damned if i am pulling the trigger without one!
chuck
the first one i built has a 26" tube and it doesnt have any trouble making the 2800-2850 the 300mk likes to be shot at. it is a 6-groove rock creek barrel that was a special run for accuracy international as told to me by the seller here on the hide. the second one has a 28" benchmark three groove but i havnt got around to shooting it yet. still need to put a pad on it and ill be damned if i am pulling the trigger without one!
chuck
Re: 338 Edge
We were just out shooting mine on sunday and it runs the 300smk out of a 25" gain twist barrel that ends up around 1-9.6 running 94 gr of Retumbo at 2860fps. Took 16.4mil to get to 1760 with 100 yd zero. We also run some 338 297gr bore riders at 94 grains and they run 3030fps. They took 10.4 mil to get to the same mile. Gun weighs just under 15# with NF on it.
We were just out shooting mine on sunday and it runs the 300smk out of a 25" gain twist barrel that ends up around 1-9.6 running 94 gr of Retumbo at 2860fps. Took 16.4mil to get to 1760 with 100 yd zero. We also run some 338 297gr bore riders at 94 grains and they run 3030fps. They took 10.4 mil to get to the same mile. Gun weighs just under 15# with NF on it.
Re: 338 Edge
Azprc just touched on something not really discussed either. You mentioned "mostly 225-250 then some 300 at the range" Your twist rate for shooting 225's (the most accurately) won't be the same for the big pills. Don't get me wrong the best middle ground would be a 1:10 and of course I am going to get burned a little by the trg guys using the older 1:12 twist that say they are shooting great with the heavy bullets. But let's face it, when you step up to this level you are generally going for a purpose built rig and should go with the best possible set up you can for what it was intended. I'll leave it at that in order to keep the flames at a minimum.
Azprc just touched on something not really discussed either. You mentioned "mostly 225-250 then some 300 at the range" Your twist rate for shooting 225's (the most accurately) won't be the same for the big pills. Don't get me wrong the best middle ground would be a 1:10 and of course I am going to get burned a little by the trg guys using the older 1:12 twist that say they are shooting great with the heavy bullets. But let's face it, when you step up to this level you are generally going for a purpose built rig and should go with the best possible set up you can for what it was intended. I'll leave it at that in order to keep the flames at a minimum.
Re: 338 Edge
You could get away with the same twist rate if the lighter bullets were solids (lathe turned brass or bronze) so they would be nearly the same length as the 300 gr bullets.
You could get away with the same twist rate if the lighter bullets were solids (lathe turned brass or bronze) so they would be nearly the same length as the 300 gr bullets.
Re: 338 Edge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were just out shooting mine on sunday and it runs the 300smk out of a 25" gain twist barrel that ends up around 1-9.6 running 94 gr of Retumbo at 2860fps. </div></div>
I think you're lucky at that speed. I've had 3 guns with a longer barrel and more retumbo at about 100 fps slower.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were just out shooting mine on sunday and it runs the 300smk out of a 25" gain twist barrel that ends up around 1-9.6 running 94 gr of Retumbo at 2860fps. </div></div>
I think you're lucky at that speed. I've had 3 guns with a longer barrel and more retumbo at about 100 fps slower.
Re: 338 Edge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkregulator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were just out shooting mine on sunday and it runs the 300smk out of a 25" gain twist barrel that ends up around 1-9.6 running 94 gr of Retumbo at 2860fps. </div></div>
I think you're lucky at that speed. I've had 3 guns with a longer barrel and more retumbo at about 100 fps slower. </div></div>
94 gr was compressed in RP brass. Were your barrels gain? I have not run an edge with a standard twist so I am wondering if that were the gains I see.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkregulator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We were just out shooting mine on sunday and it runs the 300smk out of a 25" gain twist barrel that ends up around 1-9.6 running 94 gr of Retumbo at 2860fps. </div></div>
I think you're lucky at that speed. I've had 3 guns with a longer barrel and more retumbo at about 100 fps slower. </div></div>
94 gr was compressed in RP brass. Were your barrels gain? I have not run an edge with a standard twist so I am wondering if that were the gains I see.
Re: 338 Edge
ctressler, it's not about the length but about the sectional density. The longer the bullet the harder it is to stabilize correctly. Now change up the form factor and sectional density and it can be a bit of poker game. monolithics are less SD because they are lighter than lead core bullets. I shoot both so I know what you mean about it helping keep the land jump close.
ctressler, it's not about the length but about the sectional density. The longer the bullet the harder it is to stabilize correctly. Now change up the form factor and sectional density and it can be a bit of poker game. monolithics are less SD because they are lighter than lead core bullets. I shoot both so I know what you mean about it helping keep the land jump close.
Re: 338 Edge
@ Bowstryder, it may not be all about the length, but I think length has more to do with stability and twist rate than you might think. have you played with this stability calculator or read the section about stability in Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting by Bryan Litz?
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
@ Bowstryder, it may not be all about the length, but I think length has more to do with stability and twist rate than you might think. have you played with this stability calculator or read the section about stability in Applied Ballistics For Long Range Shooting by Bryan Litz?
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
Re: 338 Edge
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">94 gr was compressed in RP brass. Were your barrels gain? I have not run an edge with a standard twist so I am wondering if that were the gains I see. </div></div>
95 grains with an oal of 3.9- not compressed
9.5 and 10 std. twist barrels
215m
rp brass
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Azprc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">94 gr was compressed in RP brass. Were your barrels gain? I have not run an edge with a standard twist so I am wondering if that were the gains I see. </div></div>
95 grains with an oal of 3.9- not compressed
9.5 and 10 std. twist barrels
215m
rp brass
Re: 338 Edge
I just had one built. I built it to shoot the 300 grn Bergers exculsively. It wears a 30" Rock Creek AMU and a Holland break. I am at 3400 ft for elevation and with a charge of 90 grains of H1000, its right at 2810. The thing is a beast. With the NF it weights 17.25 lbs. Hardly know its back there with the Eblerlestock.
I just had one built. I built it to shoot the 300 grn Bergers exculsively. It wears a 30" Rock Creek AMU and a Holland break. I am at 3400 ft for elevation and with a charge of 90 grains of H1000, its right at 2810. The thing is a beast. With the NF it weights 17.25 lbs. Hardly know its back there with the Eblerlestock.
